Depends on map. There are maps that can't be DT-ed, but can be HR-ed. There are also maps that can be DT-ed but can't be HR-ed. If circles are already small - hr will be harder, if bpm is already high - dt will be harder and so on. There isn't ultimate answer to that question.

Novalogic wrote:

Depends on map. There are maps that can't be DT-ed, but can be HR-ed. There are also maps that can be DT-ed but can't be HR-ed.

Mendes,not even auto can pass it with hr

HR is harder than DT.

Kheldragar wrote:

HR is harder than DT.

because potato?

Riince wrote:

Kheldragar wrote:

HR is harder than DT.

because potato?

because he can't acc hr :^)

They're both harder on different maps and different difficulties. Neither is really more challenging than the other.

Don't forget HD is harder on ar<7 and FL is harder on practically everything

No sane person would play FL.

DT is harder for most stuff but I think HR is cooler.

hrdt definitely harder

DT makes it harder to FC than HR for almost any map that doesn't have really small circles already, assuming reading isn't an issue, but if you're able to FC a map with either, HR will almost always make accuracy harder than DT does.

HR is harder, it even has hard in the name

Isn't the name "Hard Rock" redundant?

HR is like super mario and DT is sanic,sanic is harder than mario

CptBlackBird wrote:

HR is like super mario and DT is sanic,sanic is harder than mario

Best analogy

I can't play either CS 5.2 disgusts me and I can't singletap fast and accurately

the CS is fucking easy, so is the AR, the OD is what is killer, i get around +/- 9 ms 110-120 unstable rate with hard rock and thats still rarely above 94% acc, my best is 96% od10. a lot of the time ill fail with an fc because i get a truckload of 100's at a slow part like on leave the lights on near the end.

ill keep practicing it though, and ill get some HR scores up here with my DT shitfest of a top rank list

I could learn AR10 if I bothered to play it but I really hate CS5.2 for some reason

What's weirder is that I can play CS5 but that extra .2 really kills it for me

i guess i find the circles easy because i made my area so much bigger, my movement margin for error on cs5.2 is about as big as my old area used to be on cs4.

I suck at HR, I'm TERRIBLE at DT.

Riince the od is just hard for you because your sense of rhythm is broken beyond hope

Drain shouldn't be an issue of you're fcing stuff, and higher cs and ar require greater precision and reading speed

I want to be a player who plays hr and dt cuz it's kool

i dont think +/- 9 ms is broken beyond hope, just needs some polishing to get it down to like 6

-21 - +8

That's me.

both.

Kheldragar wrote:

-21 - +8

That's me.

you are fucking small time kheld



just try to get worse acc https://osu.ppy.sh/s/73121 i didnt even change offset, just had a bad day.

The ghost of miss early and fc the rest except for the second to last note hits again.

see you aint got shit on me

Play the same difficulty twice, once with HR and once with DT, now tell me which one is harder.

razavana wrote:

Play the same difficulty twice, once with HR and once with DT, now tell me which one is harder.

the world doesn't work like that, it was a general question

razavana wrote:

Play the same difficulty twice, once with HR and once with DT, now tell me which one is harder.

agreed

it's not that one dimensional but ofc everyone will say hr is harder

Rest of the thread is tldr for me right now so this response might be the same as someone elses, but obviously, on the same map, dt alone is gonna be objectively harder than hr alone.

At the same starcount though, this is where things shift. Some might be fast enough and not accurate enough so that dt is easier, some might be the other way around so that hr is easier, some might be neither, but instead balanced, and have good aim and reading, so they are better at nomod instead.

HRDT is what the cool kids play tho

cheezstik wrote:

Some might be fast enough and not accurate enough so that dt is easier[/spoiler]

You just described me. I don't know if DT "alone" on a map is enough to say it's always objectively harder. What about those HR cs6.5 maps?

Kheldragar wrote:

cheezstik wrote:

Some might be fast enough and not accurate enough so that dt is easier[/spoiler]

I don't know if DT "alone" on a map is enough to say it's always objectively harder. What about those HR cs6.5 maps?

Well if we go by objectively harder being higher starcount, then there is a possibility of HR being harder than DT, which I just tested, but I'm not sure this case exists in ranked maps right now. I edited rog unlimitation to be cs7, and HR increased the starcount to 10* (cs9.1 kek) while DT increased it to 9*, the massive starcount jump comes from the fact that the streams which were previously circles touching each other are now so small that there is space in between each circle. I tried the same with cs6, and HR wasn't higher starcount than dt in this case. In irre's ranked cs7 maps, DT raises the starcount above HR.

Tl;dr DT alone will raise the starcount above HR alone 99.69% of the time.

bigfeh wrote:

razavana wrote:

Play the same difficulty twice, once with HR and once with DT, now tell me which one is harder.

the world doesn't work like that, it was a general question

Im not trying to be an ass but how else can we objectively discuss the difficulty of the two mods if not on the same map?

There is no accurate general answer. HR is more difficult on some maps than DT, where DT sometimes makes original map easier to play, etc. It's subjective to each player. But the more difficult map gets, the harder it is to play with DT, because of increased BPM.

As far as I know, the same map with dt is much harder than with hr. However, when two different maps with the mods respectively that are the same star rating, the one with hr is generally harder.

DT in general increases star diff much higher for a some good reasons. It directly impacts the pace of a song by bpm alteration. It proportionallly decreases the window in which a hit is registered as 300/100/50 as HR and past AR9 it has a higher impact on AR/OD than HR.

HR will "only" increase OD and AR up to 10 while DT can manipulate these stats past that point up to 11.

The only situation where I could think of HR being more challenging for one specific beat map is when circle size already is fairly small(5 and higher) before nomod, the AR is below 9, OD is around 8 - 8.5 and the dt bpm wouldnt surpass ~200.

Some of these conditions for this particular scenario might be subjective. But so is the whole topic if you consider memorization. Someone who perfectly memorizes a map without mods "only" requires to increase all his speed parameters (reading, tapping, cursor movement) to play the same map with dt. This doesnt work with HR.

If your question is what should be rewarded more then I would be inclined to say HR. Simply because DT and HT alter the sound quality in a negative way which ruins the whole experience for me and doesn't work with the whole concept of enjoying music in a rhythm based game. Again a very subjective personal opinion noone will actually care about in this community. Sadly.

You might ask the question 10 different players with totally distinctive profiles. You will get 10 different answers on that matter. Some might prefer playing acc based/aim based. Others will like to go fast. And then again You'll have those which are too proud to admit they cannot do the respective other thing and will claim their ways are more challenging or demanding and due should be rewarded much more. And then out of a sudden a wild millhiore will walk by and show you how hard EZ mod actually is. Kynan might just prefer playing really high bpm settings. thelewa is gonna rape every read intensive map. Or let's say emperorpenguin tags along and just mashes both DT and HR and wouldn't even be mad.

Bottom line. There is no one and only correct rule and answer to this question.

FL is nothing but a troll mod for cheaters. People multibox/use several monitors/perfectly memorize whole maps. But so can HD be abused in the same way.

JonQuy wrote:

As far as I know, the same map with dt is much harder than with hr. However, when two different maps with the mods respectively that are the same star rating, the one with hr is generally harder.

Sums up my post perfectly... oh well.

I'm inclined to say HR should be rewarded more than DT because you can "hurr go fast" on maps and 200pp as opposed to actually having accuracy.

Or maybe people with good acc and bad speed think the opposite.

Kheldragar wrote:

Or maybe people with good acc and bad speed think the opposite.

not maybe, that's exactly how it works, to them its just "hurr acc slow stuff" free pp
a lot of HR players are speed challenged just like a lot of DT players are acc challenged [cough YOU cough]

Infevo wrote:

DT in general increases star diff much higher for a some good reasons. It directly impacts the pace of a song by bpm alteration. It proportionallly decreases the window in which a hit is registered as 300/100/50 as HR and past AR9 it has a higher impact on AR/OD than HR.

HR will "only" increase OD and AR up to 10 while DT can manipulate these stats past that point up to 11.

AR, OD, (and I know you didn't mention this last one, but...) HP aren't taken into account when calculating starcount. Obviously the first two affect pp gain, but the starcount will be the same at every value.