Fullerene- wrote:

Feel the Beats has negative SVs where the map scrolls backwards.

LOL Now i know what is negative SVs. Still it's impossible because i think it will ruin the notes but maybe i support this one XD

This is good!
and I'm pretty comprehend with negative SV too. It can be used with breaktime as well.

I'm all for negative sv, it can create really awesome "flashback" effects without ruining the gameplay, also supporting increased sv limits just for the sake of mapping freedom

-Kamikaze- wrote:

I'm all for negative sv, it can create really awesome "flashback" effects without ruining the gameplay, also supporting increased sv limits just for the sake of mapping freedom

i can imagine it right now

About 0.00x, how do you know it goes on?
Imo they can't be rankable, as it is nigh impossible to read it properly, rven for experienced players
It could be used for unranked maps, with no intention of ranking

Honestly, I think that there are mappers that can work with increased SV limits to make amazing visual effects that still work very well in gameplay. Not always necessarily rankable, but I think some people (*cough lzenxl cough*) would be able to really make some enjoyable betamaps.

Also, negative SVs sound really fun. I support them as well.

baraatje123 wrote:

About 0.00x, how do you know it goes on?
Imo they can't be rankable, as it is nigh impossible to read it properly, rven for experienced players
It could be used for unranked maps, with no intention of ranking

I disagree. There are players who read note placement by listening to music and only looking on which column notes are (reading patterns by ears), and 0,0x is mostly used either for very short amount of time, for breaks, or for bigger impact on sv bumps. As for rankabilty, no one said that they should be rankable, though imo 0,00 could go through if used wisely

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t1a0aulirdxyy ... i.osz?dl=0
↑nice example about using 0.00x

for mania, sv 0 or -0 is cool stuff

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/225639

i did like this before

Time for some Technical explanation why this Can't really happen, unless it needs to get a completely change of the .osu file

A red Line uses the following code (Just an example)
1788,389.61038961039,4,2,1,100,1,0
1788-->Offset
389... --> 10000/BPM --> Bpm=154
4-->4/4 Timing set-up
2-->Red line (I think, but not sure)
1-->Custom Hitsoundset used
100-->Hitsounds Volume
1-->Hitsounds type (Normal(0), Soft(1) and drum(2))
0-->Kiai activated or not


A green line uses the following code (Just an example)
14645,-100,4,1,1,100,0,1
14645-->Offset
-100-->-100/SV change (1.0) If this number gets positive, it'll display 1.00x
4-->4/4 Timing setup
1--> Greenline (I think)
1-->Custom hitsoundset used
100-->Hitsounds Volume
0-->Hitsounds type (Normal(0), Soft(1) and drum(2))
1-->Kiai activated or not

Any positive number in a green line at the "-100" spot will make it crash
Also 0 or -0 will make it crash

Edit: If the 1/2 DO mean red/green line, this should be able to get achieved, but if it's not, then tere is no way to do this, as a Positive number at the "-100" spot then means BPM, and a negative number means SV change

Also, 30.0x is actually achievable

Change the -100 to -100/30-->3.333

I am fine with 0.01 as minimum (Whis is possible to get by using -10000 at the "-100" spot) , but lower is actually not achievable, as that can then also be used for standard maps, which can cause real weird stuff

mapper can do anything they want baratje

i can make freezing note before in std , even backward note effect in std (but still using SB stuff to do it)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/69803 - sv in std like this (backward approach circle)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/42267 freezing note, yeah

i support this feature because is fking damn cool

zeroclover wrote:

mapper can do anything they want baratje

i can make freezing note before in std , even backward note effect in std (but still using SB stuff to do it)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/69803 - sv in std like this (backward approach circle)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/42267 freezing note, yeah

i support this feature because is fking damn cool

I love ur maps

baraatje123 wrote:

Time for some Technical explanation why this Can't really happen, unless it needs to get a completely change of the .osu file

A red Line uses the following code (Just an example)
1788,389.61038961039,4,2,1,100,1,0
1788-->Offset
389... --> 10000/BPM --> Bpm=154
4-->4/4 Timing set-up
2-->Red line (I think, but not sure)
1-->Custom Hitsoundset used
100-->Hitsounds Volume
1-->Hitsounds type (Normal(0), Soft(1) and drum(2))
0-->Kiai activated or not


A green line uses the following code (Just an example)
14645,-100,4,1,1,100,0,1
14645-->Offset
-100-->-100/SV change (1.0) If this number gets positive, it'll display 1.00x
4-->4/4 Timing setup
1--> Greenline (I think)
1-->Custom hitsoundset used
100-->Hitsounds Volume
0-->Hitsounds type (Normal(0), Soft(1) and drum(2))
1-->Kiai activated or not

Any positive number in a green line at the "-100" spot will make it crash
Also 0 or -0 will make it crash

Edit: If the 1/2 DO mean red/green line, this should be able to get achieved, but if it's not, then tere is no way to do this, as a Positive number at the "-100" spot then means BPM, and a negative number means SV change

Also, 30.0x is actually achievable

Change the -100 to -100/30-->3.333

I am fine with 0.01 as minimum (Whis is possible to get by using -10000 at the "-100" spot) , but lower is actually not achievable, as that can then also be used for standard maps, which can cause real weird stuff

like slider going backwards? xD

You can edit .osu file to achieve any SV, this is allowed.

I only wondering why do you need 0.0 as it never works like real 0?

Kodora wrote:

You can edit .osu file to achieve any SV, this is allowed.

I only wondering why do you need 0.0 as it never works like real 0?

Kodora wrote:

You can edit .osu file to achieve any SV, this is allowed.

This is allowed?

Yep that the way to break the SV limit but i think editing the .osu file is unrankable
And when mapper wants to achieve any SV. they just edit the .osu file then replace blah blah, etc
It's kinda frustrating to some lazy mappers. Like me, sort of
It's best if they confirmed (approve) this So they won't get lazy editing sdfsdfdcsdc.

Kodora wrote:

I only wondering why do you need 0.0

For making true stop
Unlike 0.10x SV, you can see the notes it's still moving.

This is for the mappers who wanna map in a freedom way.

RIP english

For - SV
I don't know if that's possible But i support them.

Support 0,0x or for example yellow line for true stop in scrolling (like in DDR/SM), well made stops can be easily readable and make map look more fun.

Not sure about 10x/30x thingy, because it will be only usefull in sudden showing up notes in the middle of screen, other things are only memorable and unreadable.

Tidek wrote:

Support 0,0x or for example yellow line for true stop in scrolling (like in DDR/SM), well made stops can be easily readable and make map look more fun.

Not sure about 10x/30x thingy, because it will be only usefull in sudden showing up notes in the middle of screen, other things are only memorable and unreadable.

If there is a repeating pattern it shouldnt be a problem. Or if its increased during a slider.

arviejhay wrote:

Yep that the way to break the SV limit but i think editing the .osu file is unrankable
And when mapper wants to achieve any SV. they just edit the .osu file then replace blah blah, etc
It's kinda frustrating to some lazy mappers. Like me, sort of
It's best if they confirmed (approve) this So they won't get lazy editing sdfsdfdcsdc.

This is not unrankable, see this thread for clarification. Additionaly, I'd say that it's better to keep this feature "hidden" as it now, so it would not be misused too often.

arviejhay wrote:

For making true stop
Unlike 0.10x SV, you can see the notes it's still moving.[/quote]

"True stop" means "hold", right? In this case it should go here, as sliders should always have speed.

@Kodora

We are talking about osu!mania, not standard (look thread title). True stop is just making freeze in scrolling speed.

Why no read the thread title xD

Agree with 0.0x SV..

Disagree with 30.0x . 10.0x is already fucking crazy lol..

Bump

Update:
Remove Request "10.0x to 30.0x"

Any Violent Reactions, Opinions?

I have readed title already. Sliders always should have speed, else they would be unexpected & confusing - not even talking that osu! itself never supported 0.0 speed. If you want something like "true stop", ask for a Hold feature for specified gamemodem

Kodora wrote:

I have readed title already. Sliders always should have speed, else they would be unexpected & confusing - not even talking that osu! itself never supported 0.0 speed. If you want something like "true stop", ask for a Hold feature for specified gamemodem

Like hold notes in osu stream? Nah. They won't accept that since theres a rule called hold notes is unrankable.
And yes 0.0 are unexpected and surprising but not confusing.

Sliders always should have speed just like you said or else they would be weird.
They cant be used in standard,taiko, and ctb or else they look like a stuck slider on the screen and it will ruin the gameplay if it not use properly. (maybe)
But in osu mania, its all right if a long note (slider on mania) stops or the gameplay stops and it can be fun and gives the mapper to map widely.

To be honest, the "Flashback" effects that come with negative SV are probably only suited for songs like Nevereverland where it has that "rewind" feeling, other than that I'm totally against it since it's incredibly gimmicky, also 0.0x SV would need to be used with INCREDIBLE caution, as the last poster mentioned. I'd probably not have these included in the game but some people like them so who am I to stop them?

I like the "true stop" option, but no with the negative SV because it would shock players. A map that has special SV (like 0 or negative) should have a special icon (preferably next to the diff name), so players will notice if the map has "true stop" or "backscroll".

arviejhay wrote:

...
But in osu mania, its all right if a long note (slider on mania) stops or the gameplay stops and it can be fun and gives the mapper to map widely.

Of course. Also there's should be a option to makes that stops on slider on o!m can make combo increases or pauses the combo until stop finishes.

Ryu Sei wrote:

I like the "true stop" option, but no with the negative SV because it would shock players. A map that has special SV (like 0 or negative) should have a special icon (preferably next to the diff name), so players will notice if the map has "true stop" or "backscroll"
Of course. Also there's should be a option to makes that stops on slider on o!m can make combo increases or pauses the combo until stop finishes.

I think pausing the combo on a slider is much better. I'm just curious what if it there's a slider in a negative SV? The combo decreases? xD

My Opinions:

osu!mania:

--- 0 SV
Simply agree with this, supported.

--- Negative SV
Not sure because if notes come from the bottom since the judgement line is already at the bottom, how can people react fast enough to click this note?

osu! (pretty bit out of the real topic):

--- 0 SV
I agree with this if used as hold slider but the problem is... How will you give them a duration since the duration of the slider can be extended while moving your cursor from the starting slider but since the slider doesn't gets any longer and stays the same place... The slider duration can be infinite, I think. :/
But if there is a way to make a hold slider properly... Will support this but this is against the hold slider rules though.

--- Negative SV
Not sure how will this work...

Sirade wrote:

My Opinions:

osu!mania:

--- 0 SV
Simply agree with this, supported.

--- Negative SV
Not sure because if notes come from the bottom since the judgement line is already at the bottom, how can people react fast enough to click this note.

If there's that scroll part. They will not click the notes or I mean press the notes. They will wait until the rewind is over.
I think that's what you thinking.
Or else they will break the combo.

It can come from the bottom or top forward then backwards

arviejhay wrote:

If there's that scroll part. They will not click the notes or I mean press the notes. They will wait until the rewind is over.
I think that's what you thinking.
Or else they will break the combo.

It can come from the bottom or top forward then backwards

Oh well, then, support "Negative SV" for mania too.

baraatje123 wrote:

Time for some Technical explanation why this Can't really happen, unless it needs to get a completely change of the .osu file

A green line uses the following code (Just an example)
14645,-100,4,1,1,100,0,1
14645-->Offset
-100-->-100/SV change (1.0) If this number gets positive, it'll display 1.00x
4-->4/4 Timing setup
1--> Greenline (I think)
1-->Custom hitsoundset used
100-->Hitsounds Volume
0-->Hitsounds type (Normal(0), Soft(1) and drum(2))
1-->Kiai activated or not

Thanks for this baraatje123, time for me to pitch in my 2cents

(-)SV, should be somewhat feasible though, right? Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see why it would crash if you enter a positive number, unless osu is specifically looking for a negative value. That would make sense then because it probably wouldn't return anything else. #RIPpositivenumbers

As for the other one...

With how SV is currently calculated, 0.0x SV is impossible. You guys should give up on that one because dividing by zero is something you just don't do. In other words, you're trying to divide something by nothing, that's a big no no. Unless, you like seeing "undefined" all the time? =w=

Kuro wrote:

(-)SV, should be somewhat feasible though, right? Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see why it would crash if you enter a positive number, unless osu is specifically looking for a negative value. That would make sense then because it probably wouldn't return anything else. #RIPpositivenumbers

I try it and it didn't crash but it turns to 1.0x

Kuro wrote:

As for the other one...

With how SV is currently calculated, 0.0x SV is impossible. You guys should give up on that one because dividing by zero is something you just don't do. In other words, you're trying to divide something by nothing, that's a big no no. Unless, you like seeing "undefined" all the time? =w=

While Editing the .osu file

lol
0.0x is i think achievable but it's moving like 0.01.

But then it's still moving
Also, Kuro, that one bolded line
I thought a negative number there means Green, and a positive number means Red
This is afaik not the case, so negatives can be achieved
Also, the 0.00 is not really achievable, or you'll have -100000 in that line (0.001x)
However, if support comes from this, the .osu will probably get a change, and as that'll also affect other modes, I can't agree
Standard:
0.00: Holds, no movement, really unclear if a circle or slider
Negative: Not gonna work

Taiko:
0.00:True stop, can make maps really messy, due to the way SV works in Taiko
Negative:This one can be fun, but it can also make it impossible

CtB: No influence AFAIK

I still disagree with this, as when this goes in, there is also a way to bring this into other modes

baraatje123 wrote:

But then it's still moving
Also, Kuro, that one bolded line
I thought a negative number there means Green, and a positive number means Red
This is afaik not the case, so negatives can be achieved
Also, the 0.00 is not really achievable, or you'll have -100000 in that line (0.001x) I used -9999999999999999999999999999999999
However, if support comes from this, the .osu will probably get a change, and as that'll also affect other modes, I can't agree
me too. standard 0.0x? Nah, Taiko 0.0x? probably Nah, CTB ? nope especially when you trying to catch the last fruit then it stops in the middle lol.
Standard:
0.00: Holds, no movement, really unclear if a circle or slider
Negative: Not gonna work

Taiko:
0.00:True stop, can make maps really messy, due to the way SV works in Taiko
Negative:This one can be fun, but it can also make it impossible

CtB: No influence AFAIK

I still disagree with this, as when this goes in, there is also a way to bring this into other modes

i probably make a new thread in the feature request and make a new rule that 0.0x and negative SVs can't be rank able in standard,taiko and ctb.

Your right about this.
negative SVs are impossible lel.
0.0x are impossible lel (but still moving)

baraatje123 wrote:

Time for some Technical explanation why this Can't really happen, unless it needs to get a completely change of the .osu file

A green line uses the following code (Just an example)
14645,-100,4,1,1,100,0,1
14645-->Offset
-100-->-100/SV change (1.0) If this number gets positive, it'll display 1.00x
4-->4/4 Timing setup
1--> Greenline (I think)
1-->Custom hitsoundset used
100-->Hitsounds Volume
0-->Hitsounds type (Normal(0), Soft(1) and drum(2))
1-->Kiai activated or not

Divide 0 error incoming

Chirimu-Chan wrote:

baraatje123 wrote:

Time for some Technical explanation why this Can't really happen, unless it needs to get a completely change of the .osu file

A green line uses the following code (Just an example)
14645,-100,4,1,1,100,0,1
14645-->Offset
-100-->-100/SV change (1.0) If this number gets positive, it'll display 1.00x
4-->4/4 Timing setup
1--> Greenline (I think)
1-->Custom hitsoundset used
100-->Hitsounds Volume
0-->Hitsounds type (Normal(0), Soft(1) and drum(2))
1-->Kiai activated or not

Divide 0 error incoming

Divide 0 lel

bump tbh

0.01 - 0.10 SV, though is apply-able in the editor, doesn't seem to be giving their correct scrolling speed effect since if you'd add a 0.01x next to a 0.1x, it doesn't seem to change speed.

Evening wrote:

0.01 - 0.10 SV, though is apply-able in the editor, doesn't seem to be giving their correct scrolling speed effect since if you'd add a 0.01x next to a 0.1x, it doesn't seem to change speed.

The same thing applies to 8x SV>infinity, where it forever caps out at 8x scroll rate no matter what. Negative SV values are also treated as positive when you manually edit them in notepad (SV is denoted as -number.decimals in the editor, so negative SV would be either number.decimals or --number.decimals, both result in positive for the notepad, and negative in the editor). Baraatje talked about how this cannot work in the physical sense, as in how the notepad file would outright reject this, but I'll talk about how if it were to accept such values, this is probably how osu! would react, going off of observations from how songs react to current BPM/SV changes.

In terms of negative BPM/SV, it really only works the best in mania, as others have pointed out, as how mania works is when the timing point is hit, all notes on the screen at the time are affected. So if a BPM had approached 0, all the notes in mania would stop. Theoretically, if the BPM or SV was negative, all the notes on screen would scroll backwards if going off of how the osu! engine registers notes in mania.

In Taiko, BPM/SV changes are treated entirely different, where only the notes on or after the BPM/SV change are affected. In Taiko maps, you might've noticed notes suddenly slow down or speed up, despite the notes you're hitting not doing this, and that's because the notes you can see up ahead have hit a BPM/SV change, which causes them to scroll at a different rate. So say theoretically if BPM or SV had reached 0. Going off of this knowledge, all that would happen is that the notes inside the SV change would stay stuck at the hit reticle until their time came to be hit. Firce777's map (https://osu.ppy.sh/s/219733) displays this, where the BPM is set to 600000 in the notepad file. This corresponds to an extremely low BPM (approx. 0.01666666666BPM, or 1BPH (1 beat per hour)). Going off of this knowledge, a negative SV would likely make the notes come from the left side rather than the right side, which admittedly could make for some creative gameplay, probably would be somewhat infuriating to play.

Since there is no definite way of telling of osu! or CTB would operate, we can only speculate. As osu! and CTB are different in where they use AR values rather than going off of the BPM/SV for their notes, we can't make too many assumptions. The one thing that does use BPM/SV in osu! and CTB are sliders, in where if it were a negative BPM, it'd probably just play in reverse, which isn't too interesting all things considered. At the moment, a BPM/SV approaching 0 doesn't affect anything in osu! or CTB in terms of notes, even if the sliders are. If we were to assume in osu! or CTB that it would act similarly to Taiko however, as sliders act exactly the same as notes in Taiko in terms of when they get affected, a BPM/SV of 0 would freeze the note's animation when it was approached, but would still have the same AR/OD timing window, making it rather unfair to be perfectly honest. You would end up having notes cluttered on the screen, not moving anywhere until they're hit, and with how large the approach circle is, it could become distracting very quickly, though depending on what was done with it, could also create some interesting artistic decisions. A negative BPM/SV would have the note's animation play in reverse if we're still going off the same philosophy as before, which would mean that the AR/OD timing window still stays the same, but instead, the player might have to hit the note at around the largest the approach circle can get, and this would be very interesting, maybe even fun to play, unlike a BPM of 0. These changes would probably apply to CTB as well, and again although the negative BPM to make the fruits fly to the top with you still needing to be lined up with the fruits could be interesting and fun, a BPM of 0 would have the note frozen at the top, possibly off-screen, and you'd still have to catch it, which would again be aggravating, though unlike in osu!, this wouldn't even be artistic if you can't see the fruit. An important question might come up as "what about the spinners?". Spinners are mapper controlled in terms of how long they last, and they play no differently from a BPM/SV perspective, so they'd likely act the same.

tl;dr, this idea works really well in mania, okay in Taiko, and while negative could be fun in osu! or CTB, a BPM/SV of 0 in those modes would be infuriating and virtually unplayable without some kind of storyboard.

bump