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SV limit: 0.10x - 0.0x and Negative (−) SV (Osu! Mania)

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +30
arviejhay
1,413 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
arviejhay
As it said in the title i request to change the SV limit.

For 0.0x SV, This can make a True stop if you use them wisely unlike 0.10x you can see that the gameplay is still running
and when you look on the timing menu, the metronome ball (i don't what it's called) stops but the sound is not,
It's like on DDR
Example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKFGOE9_7Bs




For Negative SV

Fullerene- wrote:

Negative SVs where the map scrolls backwards.
Example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7XykqvVS2I



I don't know if you guys like this request.
Feel free to throw your opinions here , it's a request
Last edited by arviejhay , edited 15 times in total.
Bara-
11,955 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
God no
0.1x is already very slow, and 10.0x is already way to fast
Does it even ever get used?
I have NEVER seen it once, such slow/fasr speed down/up
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

baraatje123 wrote:

God no
0.1x is already very slow, and 10.0x is already way to fast
Does it even ever get used?
I have NEVER seen it once, such slow/fasr speed down/up
Just because it hasn't been used doesn't mean it can't be used. The more tools people have to more things they can create, if you disagree with what they create well that's your opinion. Mapping is subjective so some people are bound to enjoy things that you don't.
arviejhay
1,413 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
arviejhay
i think like this lol
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/92807
Nanatsu
1,138 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu

baraatje123 wrote:

God no
0.1x is already very slow, and 10.0x is already way to fast
Does it even ever get used?
I have NEVER seen it once, such slow/fasr speed down/up
if you talking about RANKED maps style, i agree it surely

however, have you played some of unranked which were accoustomed to sv? such as converted charts from o2jam ( one of mania style rhythm game )

they even used sv like 65563 bpm, 0~1 bpm to make charts cool. and its exactly damn cool if don't harm acc, combo, whatever

well, mania multiplication sv way can't make that kind of svs. so if we use bpm ways, it can cause harming timing of measure line.

remember, mapping is subjective things. and even it would be agree, the terrible sv will not apply to ranked map..
Mwallx
222 posts
Joined April 2014
Mwallx
Support.i'm a mania mapper and i know the 0.1X it's still not slow enough for fierce svs,but i think 10x
is enough.So, just just 0.1x to 0.0x i think
Sea_Food
484 posts
Joined September 2012
Sea_Food
But what about negative SV?
arviejhay
1,413 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
arviejhay

Sea_Food wrote:

But what about negative SV?
I think 0.0x SV is enough for the gameplay to stop.
I don't know if negative SVs will going to change anything
Fullerene-
550 posts
Joined April 2013
Fullerene-
Feel the Beats has negative SVs where the map scrolls backwards.

0.0x SV would be useful for making true stops instead of having to use 0.1x where it's still noticeably scrolling and would open up more options for visual effects in maps.
arviejhay
1,413 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
arviejhay

Fullerene- wrote:

Feel the Beats has negative SVs where the map scrolls backwards.
LOL Now i know what is negative SVs. Still it's impossible because i think it will ruin the notes but maybe i support this one XD
LeiN-
452 posts
Joined December 2012
LeiN-
This is good!
and I'm pretty comprehend with negative SV too. It can be used with breaktime as well.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
I'm all for negative sv, it can create really awesome "flashback" effects without ruining the gameplay, also supporting increased sv limits just for the sake of mapping freedom
arviejhay
1,413 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
arviejhay

-Kamikaze- wrote:

I'm all for negative sv, it can create really awesome "flashback" effects without ruining the gameplay, also supporting increased sv limits just for the sake of mapping freedom
i can imagine it right now :)
Bara-
11,955 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
About 0.00x, how do you know it goes on?
Imo they can't be rankable, as it is nigh impossible to read it properly, rven for experienced players
It could be used for unranked maps, with no intention of ranking
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97
Honestly, I think that there are mappers that can work with increased SV limits to make amazing visual effects that still work very well in gameplay. Not always necessarily rankable, but I think some people (*cough lzenxl cough*) would be able to really make some enjoyable betamaps.

Also, negative SVs sound really fun. I support them as well.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

baraatje123 wrote:

About 0.00x, how do you know it goes on?
Imo they can't be rankable, as it is nigh impossible to read it properly, rven for experienced players
It could be used for unranked maps, with no intention of ranking
I disagree. There are players who read note placement by listening to music and only looking on which column notes are (reading patterns by ears), and 0,0x is mostly used either for very short amount of time, for breaks, or for bigger impact on sv bumps. As for rankabilty, no one said that they should be rankable, though imo 0,00 could go through if used wisely
LeiN-
452 posts
Joined December 2012
LeiN-
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t1a0aulirdxyy ... i.osz?dl=0
↑nice example about using 0.00x
zeroclover
468 posts
Joined December 2010
zeroclover
for mania, sv 0 or -0 is cool stuff

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/225639

i did like this before :)
Bara-
11,955 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Time for some Technical explanation why this Can't really happen, unless it needs to get a completely change of the .osu file

A red Line uses the following code (Just an example)
1788,389.61038961039,4,2,1,100,1,0
1788-->Offset
389... --> 10000/BPM --> Bpm=154
4-->4/4 Timing set-up
2-->Red line (I think, but not sure)
1-->Custom Hitsoundset used
100-->Hitsounds Volume
1-->Hitsounds type (Normal(0), Soft(1) and drum(2))
0-->Kiai activated or not


A green line uses the following code (Just an example)
14645,-100,4,1,1,100,0,1
14645-->Offset
-100-->-100/SV change (1.0) If this number gets positive, it'll display 1.00x
4-->4/4 Timing setup
1--> Greenline (I think)
1-->Custom hitsoundset used
100-->Hitsounds Volume
0-->Hitsounds type (Normal(0), Soft(1) and drum(2))
1-->Kiai activated or not

Any positive number in a green line at the "-100" spot will make it crash
Also 0 or -0 will make it crash

Edit: If the 1/2 DO mean red/green line, this should be able to get achieved, but if it's not, then tere is no way to do this, as a Positive number at the "-100" spot then means BPM, and a negative number means SV change

Also, 30.0x is actually achievable

Change the -100 to -100/30-->3.333

I am fine with 0.01 as minimum (Whis is possible to get by using -10000 at the "-100" spot) , but lower is actually not achievable, as that can then also be used for standard maps, which can cause real weird stuff
zeroclover
468 posts
Joined December 2010
zeroclover
mapper can do anything they want baratje

i can make freezing note before in std , even backward note effect in std (but still using SB stuff to do it)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/69803 - sv in std like this (backward approach circle)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/42267 freezing note, yeah

i support this feature because is fking damn cool
arviejhay
1,413 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
arviejhay

zeroclover wrote:

mapper can do anything they want baratje

i can make freezing note before in std , even backward note effect in std (but still using SB stuff to do it)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/69803 - sv in std like this (backward approach circle)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/42267 freezing note, yeah

i support this feature because is fking damn cool
I love ur maps :)
arviejhay
1,413 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
arviejhay

baraatje123 wrote:

Time for some Technical explanation why this Can't really happen, unless it needs to get a completely change of the .osu file

A red Line uses the following code (Just an example)
1788,389.61038961039,4,2,1,100,1,0
1788-->Offset
389... --> 10000/BPM --> Bpm=154
4-->4/4 Timing set-up
2-->Red line (I think, but not sure)
1-->Custom Hitsoundset used
100-->Hitsounds Volume
1-->Hitsounds type (Normal(0), Soft(1) and drum(2))
0-->Kiai activated or not


A green line uses the following code (Just an example)
14645,-100,4,1,1,100,0,1
14645-->Offset
-100-->-100/SV change (1.0) If this number gets positive, it'll display 1.00x
4-->4/4 Timing setup
1--> Greenline (I think)
1-->Custom hitsoundset used
100-->Hitsounds Volume
0-->Hitsounds type (Normal(0), Soft(1) and drum(2))
1-->Kiai activated or not

Any positive number in a green line at the "-100" spot will make it crash
Also 0 or -0 will make it crash

Edit: If the 1/2 DO mean red/green line, this should be able to get achieved, but if it's not, then tere is no way to do this, as a Positive number at the "-100" spot then means BPM, and a negative number means SV change

Also, 30.0x is actually achievable

Change the -100 to -100/30-->3.333

I am fine with 0.01 as minimum (Whis is possible to get by using -10000 at the "-100" spot) , but lower is actually not achievable, as that can then also be used for standard maps, which can cause real weird stuff
like slider going backwards? xD
Kodora
Kodora
You can edit .osu file to achieve any SV, this is allowed.

I only wondering why do you need 0.0 as it never works like real 0?
arviejhay
1,413 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
arviejhay

Kodora wrote:

You can edit .osu file to achieve any SV, this is allowed.

I only wondering why do you need 0.0 as it never works like real 0?

Kodora wrote:

You can edit .osu file to achieve any SV, this is allowed.
This is allowed?

Yep that the way to break the SV limit but i think editing the .osu file is unrankable
And when mapper wants to achieve any SV. they just edit the .osu file then replace blah blah, etc
It's kinda frustrating to some lazy mappers. Like me, sort of
It's best if they confirmed (approve) this So they won't get lazy editing sdfsdfdcsdc.

Kodora wrote:

I only wondering why do you need 0.0
For making true stop :)
Unlike 0.10x SV, you can see the notes it's still moving.

This is for the mappers who wanna map in a freedom way.

RIP english :o

For - SV
I don't know if that's possible But i support them.
Tidek
1,571 posts
Joined March 2011
Tidek
Support 0,0x or for example yellow line for true stop in scrolling (like in DDR/SM), well made stops can be easily readable and make map look more fun.

Not sure about 10x/30x thingy, because it will be only usefull in sudden showing up notes in the middle of screen, other things are only memorable and unreadable.
Sea_Food
484 posts
Joined September 2012
Sea_Food

Tidek wrote:

Support 0,0x or for example yellow line for true stop in scrolling (like in DDR/SM), well made stops can be easily readable and make map look more fun.

Not sure about 10x/30x thingy, because it will be only usefull in sudden showing up notes in the middle of screen, other things are only memorable and unreadable.
If there is a repeating pattern it shouldnt be a problem. Or if its increased during a slider.
Kodora
Kodora

arviejhay wrote:

Yep that the way to break the SV limit but i think editing the .osu file is unrankable
And when mapper wants to achieve any SV. they just edit the .osu file then replace blah blah, etc
It's kinda frustrating to some lazy mappers. Like me, sort of
It's best if they confirmed (approve) this So they won't get lazy editing sdfsdfdcsdc.
This is not unrankable, see this thread for clarification. Additionaly, I'd say that it's better to keep this feature "hidden" as it now, so it would not be misused too often.

arviejhay wrote:

For making true stop :)
Unlike 0.10x SV, you can see the notes it's still moving.[/quote]

"True stop" means "hold", right? In this case it should go here, as sliders should always have speed.
Tidek
1,571 posts
Joined March 2011
Tidek
@Kodora

We are talking about osu!mania, not standard (look thread title). True stop is just making freeze in scrolling speed.
arviejhay
1,413 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
arviejhay
Why no read the thread title xD
- Yuuto -
970 posts
Joined September 2013
- Yuuto -
Agree with 0.0x SV..

Disagree with 30.0x . 10.0x is already fucking crazy lol..
arviejhay
1,413 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
arviejhay
Bump

Update:
Remove Request "10.0x to 30.0x"

Any Violent Reactions, Opinions?
Kodora
Kodora
I have readed title already. Sliders always should have speed, else they would be unexpected & confusing - not even talking that osu! itself never supported 0.0 speed. If you want something like "true stop", ask for a Hold feature for specified gamemodem
arviejhay
1,413 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
arviejhay

Kodora wrote:

I have readed title already. Sliders always should have speed, else they would be unexpected & confusing - not even talking that osu! itself never supported 0.0 speed. If you want something like "true stop", ask for a Hold feature for specified gamemodem
Like hold notes in osu stream? Nah. They won't accept that since theres a rule called hold notes is unrankable.
And yes 0.0 are unexpected and surprising but not confusing.

Sliders always should have speed just like you said or else they would be weird.
They cant be used in standard,taiko, and ctb or else they look like a stuck slider on the screen and it will ruin the gameplay if it not use properly. (maybe)
But in osu mania, its all right if a long note (slider on mania) stops or the gameplay stops and it can be fun and gives the mapper to map widely.
Dainesl
898 posts
Joined May 2012
Dainesl
To be honest, the "Flashback" effects that come with negative SV are probably only suited for songs like Nevereverland where it has that "rewind" feeling, other than that I'm totally against it since it's incredibly gimmicky, also 0.0x SV would need to be used with INCREDIBLE caution, as the last poster mentioned. I'd probably not have these included in the game but some people like them so who am I to stop them?
Ryu Sei
2,879 posts
Joined October 2013
Ryu Sei
I like the "true stop" option, but no with the negative SV because it would shock players. A map that has special SV (like 0 or negative) should have a special icon (preferably next to the diff name), so players will notice if the map has "true stop" or "backscroll".

arviejhay wrote:

...
But in osu mania, its all right if a long note (slider on mania) stops or the gameplay stops and it can be fun and gives the mapper to map widely.
Of course. Also there's should be a option to makes that stops on slider on o!m can make combo increases or pauses the combo until stop finishes.
arviejhay
1,413 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
arviejhay

Ryu Sei wrote:

I like the "true stop" option, but no with the negative SV because it would shock players. A map that has special SV (like 0 or negative) should have a special icon (preferably next to the diff name), so players will notice if the map has "true stop" or "backscroll"
Of course. Also there's should be a option to makes that stops on slider on o!m can make combo increases or pauses the combo until stop finishes.
I think pausing the combo on a slider is much better. I'm just curious what if it there's a slider in a negative SV? The combo decreases? xD
Rilene
2,105 posts
Joined April 2014
Rilene
My Opinions:

osu!mania:

--- 0 SV
Simply agree with this, supported.

--- Negative SV
Not sure because if notes come from the bottom since the judgement line is already at the bottom, how can people react fast enough to click this note?

osu! (pretty bit out of the real topic):

--- 0 SV
I agree with this if used as hold slider but the problem is... How will you give them a duration since the duration of the slider can be extended while moving your cursor from the starting slider but since the slider doesn't gets any longer and stays the same place... The slider duration can be infinite, I think. :/
But if there is a way to make a hold slider properly... Will support this but this is against the hold slider rules though.

--- Negative SV
Not sure how will this work...
arviejhay
1,413 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
arviejhay

Sirade wrote:

My Opinions:

osu!mania:

--- 0 SV
Simply agree with this, supported.

--- Negative SV
Not sure because if notes come from the bottom since the judgement line is already at the bottom, how can people react fast enough to click this note.
If there's that scroll part. They will not click the notes or I mean press the notes. They will wait until the rewind is over.
I think that's what you thinking.
Or else they will break the combo.

It can come from the bottom or top forward then backwards
Rilene
2,105 posts
Joined April 2014
Rilene

arviejhay wrote:

If there's that scroll part. They will not click the notes or I mean press the notes. They will wait until the rewind is over.
I think that's what you thinking.
Or else they will break the combo.

It can come from the bottom or top forward then backwards
Oh well, then, support "Negative SV" for mania too.
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