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BrokenArrow
FIDDLESTICKS NERFS ON THE PBE
ARAM MAINS REJOICE
Vulf

Hika wrote:

If only they put the silence onto Leblanc's ult, I'd be satisfied. Not sure if I complained about that already but I could really use the silence again; she's much harder to play with now that I have to devise some other strategy.

Oh yeah, I'm not a big fan of Talon's 99% slow on cutthroat, that's just not as fun as the silence.
I'm still extremely salty about the Leblanc rework that happened 2 summers ago. She was perfectly fine and viable pre rework. Letting an intern rework champions is one of the more stupid things I've seen Riot do.
Tshemmp
What were her skills back then? I don't find anything with google.
BrokenArrow
Her skills were the same, they just shifted her power from being an early game beast that NEEDS to snowball hard in the first 10 minutes of the game into what she is now
Vulf
She didn't need to snowball super hard she just needed to win lane which wasn't hard against most matchups. Her late game was extremely underrated because people were bad.

They didn't rework her abilities but they changed how they worked for the most part damage and utility wise. They homogenized her to be similar to other mobile assassins.

Q - Base damage lowered, mana cost reduced, buffed detonation damage, decreased silence time from 2 seconds to 1.5, lowered base AP ratio.

W - Changed how the CD worked. CD started counting down from when it is used instead of after the distortion timers faded. lowered mana cost. Buffed damage. This is what made her ridiculously viable in competitive play because of how OP mobility is. Also she could wave clear better.

E - Lowered base damage, lowered CC duration = no more 5 second root if you mimic'd your E properly.


R - Removed % damage amplification which was actually a nerf to her late game damage. Made mimic W actually useful damage wise.

These changes were more of a nerf than a buff by a lot. All they really did was made her more mobile lowered her mana cost and gave her some AoE damage which she lacked with the old kit.


With that aside YEP Warwick broken. Literally the same build every game with forced surrenders at 20 minutes. Normals because he is perma banned in ranked. I'm just going to quit league when they nerf him because they will straight up Olaf him.

OzzyOzrock
It's the on-hit true damage from Skirmisher's that shits on people right?
BrokenArrow
yep that along with the Devourer enchantment
Warwick gets 5 procs while channeling his ulti so he deals 1) ulti damage 2) skirmisher's true dmg 3) Devourer's magic damage
if he then builds a botrk or other items that proc on-hit effects he can basically oneshot tanks because there is no way to itemize against it other than a QSS
Vulf
QSS doesn't remove the damage due to a bug that has existed with Warwick ulti since the beginning of season 4. All 5 ticks of damage still apply.

Also there is a bug this patch where Warwick can kill trynd during his ult. LOL
Asada Shino
Everyone in my mmr(low plat) is getting stalker's blade, so I've never seen WW being op. Holy crap I'm permabanning him now, I figured skirmisher was really good on him.
makeamove
Nice Kalista play our ranked team made yesterday :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNgT_Xa ... e=youtu.be
Korakov
It's a long time that i never played this game since 2 months ago...

Anyway, what's going on with the newest patch (Patch 4.20) ?
Vulf
Thank god they are nerfing Skirmisher's blade and the Devourer enchantment instead of Warwick (for now). They should just remove the item from the game completely or not make it scale infinitely. It's essentially a better version of feral flare that you can start abusing on your first back to base.

Infinite scaling mechanics are stupid and will never be balanced in this game. The only questionably balanced one is Veigar Q and thats mostly due to how the rest of that champion works.
OzzyOzrock
NEW CHAMP HYYYYYPE
BrokenArrow
Man and I just bought Kalista for 7800 IP I worked really hard for..
OzzyOzrock
YO HER RELEASE SKIN IS ETERNUM REK'SAI HOOOLY MACARONI
yumi
can't wait for Blood Moon Thresh, Riot really knows how to make me spend money fuck I NEED THIS MONEY GODDAMNIT
Vulf
Wait... So.. Why is Thresh and Elise getting blood moon skins?
inb4 retconed to Ionia. Oh that's right lore in LoL has bee liquefied so they can do stupid stuff like this now.

At least the Kalista skin still makes sense because she is known all over Runeterra just perceived differently by the other regions.
OzzyOzrock
I hope they clean up Elise's blood moon spider form to not be recycled from victorious elise :c
Rewd Dudes
What do you guys think about new jungle?
OzzyOzrock
I've won 100% of my nunu games so I LOVE IT

I feel useful faster with this new jung, as strange as that sounds. I think new jungle made it more obvious to everyone to start taking objectives, as before no one really liked taking dragon, or would kill themselves for baron. Now, it's kind of you do what you need.
Vulf
The new jungle is fun and all but it's like this every season until it gets watered down into a secondary support since season 2.

Warwick is going to get nerfed into unviablity soon because Riot is literally the definition of retarded. Then people will bitch about Nunu and Fiddle until they get nerfed. I give it about 2 months before the jungle is Lee sin and Vi every game again.

I already hate these pre-season changes because it's like Riot wants season 1 jungle to comeback (even said that season 1 jungle was their best) but they add these stupid changes that end up causing horrible things and unnecessary nerfs to champions. You'd think after failing at this for 4 years now you go back to what was working.

I swear half of these changes are done by inexperienced interns knowing how lazy Riot is.
Tari
Kalista is quite fun when you play her as a support.
BrokenArrow
I'm fine with Warwick getting nerfed to death, he has always been a stupid champion. Rework him already.
PyaKura
Old champs have broken (ead : far too rigid) mechanics but WW's case has always been a problem.
Vulf
This is what happens when you leave binary champions like Warwick how he is. Warwick is only good when his items are good otherwise his is a ball of stats.

Riot has been saying he has been problematic for 3+ years but they absolutely refuse to do anything about it but nerf him when things get too far out of hand. Nerfing him into unviablility doesn't fix the problem it's a band-aid and a big fat FUCK YOU to the people who actually like that champion.

He is a champion from the alpha stages of the game who has been completely neglected by Riot for so long. It's quite disgusting how far the go out of the way to not acknowledge this champion exist until it's too late.

With that aside he won't get a rework anytime soon. They ended up scrapping the kit they spoiled for him about a month ago.

I'll probably end up quitting this game for good depending on how they nerf him. They already tried to gut him on PBE with the W nerf that made it impossible for him to jungle which ended up getting hot fixed like 5 hours later.

Smite is a superior moba anyways.
OzzyOzrock
Yup, Warwick nerf. Bye Vulf :c
Vulf
You are implying I even still play at this point unless you count normals which I haven't played in about a week.

Also that nerf on PBE isn't going to stop him from 1 shotting adc's with his ulti since you could already do it in season 3/4 with just a wits end and bork. Even with the nerfed ulti devourer/smite true damage the extra damage it gives still makes up for it.

This just shows Riot doesn't know what they are doing which is going to result in them overnerfing eventually which is something they have always done. Lowering numbers and saying "balanced" is not something that is new with the balance team.
Tshemmp
@Vulf: so what would you suggest doing in the Warwick case?
BrokenArrow
The obvious answer would be to not make it apply on-hit-effects anymore. Or at least not 5 times. Even though that won't be a long-term solution either.

EDIT: Wow, more Lucian nerfs. Another ADC I liked gutted into mediocracy. The day they hurt my Jinx will be the day I quit playing bottom lane.
PyaKura

BrokenArrow wrote:

The day they hurt my Jinx will be the day I quit playing bottom lane.

BrokenArrow wrote:

The day they hurt my Jinx will be the day I quit playing bottom lane.

BrokenArrow wrote:

The day they hurt my Jinx will be the day I quit playing bottom lane.
QFT^3
Vulf
Long post. Sorry! :(

SPOILER
I'm less upset about the possible nerfs and more upset by the fact this could have been avoided if they reworked him. Riot has been talking about reworking Warwick for over 2.5 years now. It doesn't take that long to redesign a champion especially a boring one like Warwick. I can literally prototype 3-4 kits for him in about an hour, calc numbers for the kits in about 2-3 hours.

He already has a set theme and since lore has been liquified it's not that he would need that much effort in that area. This also applies for his VU as well but that is a completely different department.

The large time consuming thing would be the play testing part which can and will take a few months depending on how complex the kit is. This is why you have a dedicated designer doing things instead of just handing off projects to multiple people when you are called to do something else.

There are other factors but since I know Riot is an extremely unorganized company (I have friends who work there) when it comes to these type of things which would increase the amount of time things are done.

It would probably take a team about 8 months to a year to redesign a champion. Significantly less if the said champion doesn't need a new model.

BrokenArrow wrote:

The obvious answer would be to not make it apply on-hit-effects anymore. Or at least not 5 times. Even though that won't be a long-term solution either.
You wouldn't even have to go that far. His ult just needs more counterplay and bug fixes. Fix the stupid bug that applies all his damage regardless of him being CC'd or QSS'd out of his ulti. Then you can make his ult a skill shot and increase the range by 100 while giving it a travel time and he wouldn't be that big of an issue until he is reworked. He already has leap animations in the game files from the alpha stages of the game (he is literally that old). This is a temporary fix without hurting the champion significantly all while making the champion a little more interesting to play for people. This is how you do a nerf and a buff at the same time to an ability. Riot just takes the lazy way.

AND

Items like Feral Flare and the Devourer enchantment should simply never exist in this game. It's a stupid impossible to balance mechanic because it's either going to be ridiculously strong or not worth the gold. It's been less than 10 months since FF was made and it's like Riot didn't learn from that mistake. I don't think they care anymore.

This whole gut until we get around to it method Riot does is an extremely lazy way to go about things and makes me really upset as a game designer that they are getting away with this kind of crap.

There is a reason I turned down the job Riot offered me because honestly I don't think I would be able to deal with how things work there and how things are organized. Thank god I know people who work there.

TL;DR

Riot is a lazy unorganized company that I feel doesn't know what they are doing anymore.
Stefan
Why should Jinx ever be nerfed? (Not to sounds that Jinx sucks but there is imo nothing which needs to be nerfed)
Hika
ppl complain about the range on her q but there goes silvers 8-)
i personally like jinx and don't see a reason as to why they'd lay a finger on her
OzzyOzrock
ye jinx is fine, she's a whole lot of dmg and utility but is forced to commit and land shit

btw

idonwannatakaboutit
Rukario
So the official Riot merchandise store now went online.

https://euw.merch.riotgames.com/en/

Just enter your preferred region instead of euw. For me, not that impressed with the shirt designs and everything.
I can't deny that I bought the Worlds jacket and a Tresh shirt, but all the other designs didn't look that appealing to me, especially the Twitch and Kog'maw ones. Either way, finally something official from Riot for merchandise and I finally got my Worlds jacket. I'm satisfied.
BrokenArrow
Yeah the shirts look pretty crappy across the board. Some stuff seems a bit overpriced but I think the prices aren't too exorbitant overall, especially considering it's still in beta.
Got myself a Jinx figure (<3) along with the Vi vs. Blue buff poster. Can't wait~
Rukario

BrokenArrow wrote:

Yeah the shirts look pretty crappy across the board. Some stuff seems a bit overpriced but I think the prices aren't too exorbitant overall, especially considering it's still in beta.
Got myself a Jinx figure (<3) along with the Vi vs. Blue buff poster. Can't wait~
They've said in their Q&A about the store, that the jackets and hoodies are so expensive since they used better fabric than in the ordinary clothes you get and ahigher quality sipper. How true any of that is, is up in the air. I'll definitely share my experiences with my order here. Maybe it does get shipped before christmas, but I doubt it.
Shipping was pretty cheap though, only 5€ for the whole order which is pretty fair.
OzzyOzrock
DAMn that world's jacket haha. I might just get the thresh tee, but the hoodie is overboard...

EDIT:


because how could i just ignore that splash art dude
BrokenArrow
Been playing a few rankeds these days again and got reminded of how god damn shitty this retarded community is.
Considering quitting again.
Vulf
It's the internet there is BM everywhere no matter what community. PvP games are almost always worse.
Heck I ran into some pretty awful BM right here on osu about a week ago in multiplayer.

Deal with it or play single player games. :)
BrokenArrow
Yeah since LoL is the only place I am active at that somehow involves a community, I am basically saying I'm about to quit the internet
no I don't count this place in
Justykanna

BrokenArrow wrote:

Been playing a few rankeds these days again and got reminded of how god damn shitty this retarded community is.
I'd say people in ranked are too hardcore about the game, but that's pretty much the 'highest' level of play in the game. Some people take the game too serious and need to seriously consider that League of Legends is "only a game".

Vulf wrote:

It's the internet there is BM everywhere no matter what community. PvP games are almost always worse.
Heck I ran into some pretty awful BM right here on osu about a week ago in multiplayer.

Deal with it or play single player games.
I'd have to agree here. You're gonna run into people like that everywhere.
I've honestly been pretty happy with the osu! community, just based on the forum threads I visit so I guess that's my exception.
I've played League, World of Warcraft, Ragnarok Online, Maplestory and Final Fantasy XIV with varying results in this regard.
League's pretty bad at times and the fact that you're stuck playing with someone for an entire duration of a game doesn't help. Of course, if it's from all chat, you can just shut that off. World of Warcraft has gotten better as time goes on but I'm not sure if that's just because I don't say much or what. Final Fantasy XIV, Ragnarok Online 1 and 2 weren't terrible, had the odd person here or there. Maplestory was by far the worst community I've been in. Had people kill stealing left and right, spamming chat, etc. Wasn't disappointed to leave that game behind.

But yeah, single player games are your friend if you want a quick solution. ;) My N3DS is my best friend here. =D
Vulf
I started playing WoW again recently and it definitely isn't as bad as it used to be. Instead of getting unrelated troll replies when I ask a question people actually give me a useful answer to things now (well not always).
Justykanna

Vulf wrote:

I started playing WoW again recently and it definitely isn't as bad as it used to be. Instead of getting unrelated troll replies when I ask a question people actually give me a useful answer to things now (well not always).
Yeah, it's really improved since the days of Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King (at least, around the time I quit back in April). Dunno why but an improved community is always nice to have.
Cyclohexane
>Unicorns of Love

Glass
freeSM like always
OzzyOzrock
page 765 hype
Rukario
When I saw the first blood with that TF jungle, I knew I was in for a bad night. Get your Shit together TSM.
Don't need another half split where CLG fanboys talk continous shit.

EDIT: My Riot Merch came today, so I'll tell you what's up with that:
Thresh Shirt: The Design is cool but the shirt is veeeery thin, like super thin. It's not really my style of T-shirt I wear but it's still alright. Fits perfectly and the fabric doesn't feel bad to wear.
Worlds Jacket: This one's a winner. Really nice as a track jacket, got a custom Zipper with the Riot logo on it. It's nothing too fancy, but just all around a good product. Can defintely recommen that one.
All in All, the shipping took about 1 week, which is pretty nice but that was for EU and it seemed to have originated from Germany, so it didn't have much of a way to travel for me.
I'm mostly satisfied with the service from the Riot store and I hope they add some better shirts in the future, I'd definitely use it again.
Navizel
How can CLG fanboys talk when the team just got fined for 10k hahahahahaha

But I guess give TSM some time. Santorin is new. Not saying he lost the game for TSM and I actually think Bjergsen did cause he got owned and some misposition from turtle but they need to build synergy again.
Rukario


Nick Allen: Damn girl, you look FINE.

Either way, I'm sure TSM was confident enough that they'd beat UOL without much trouble, since they just joined the LCS. And Bjergsen did kinda shit the bed that series, I think I have rarely seen him that helpless.
Anyway, this year is gonna be the year of CLG. #hype #potential #counterlogic #link #hearthstone #hashtag #Kappa
Glass
Love


ment2b wit Color
Cyclohexane


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Mr Jazza
Why no oce ;(
Eren Yaeger
I got gifted PrimeTime Draven and I won't ever use it I feel so bad :(
Justykanna

Mr Color wrote:



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lol, the luck!
OzzyOzrock
forceast janna is a surprisingly common mystery gift
Love
make it rain Cop, make it rain :^)

Nofool
stvicious being like : "and pples blame me for my smite... FailFish"
Rukario
Wanted to go spontaneously go to IEM Cologne.

>MFW all the passes are sold out

Falje Lazuli
It was totally a good idea to buy a legendary skin right....?

or should I spend my money on things that matter more in life...like food?

I need some help here

Navizel
You can't continue playing games without eating.
Witch Mercy
Poro king was fun for a few games, but then it got kinda boring. ):
Navizel
Like every other limited game mode :)
OzzyOzrock
i just think of it as "pick a champ for aram" mode
yumi
Except URF was actually fun the whole way through
unless they had any champion that could heal
Froslass


please take me away from BR servers

PLEASE

(Gnar got 0/10 then started trolling and KSing, you may notice because of the build lol)
Vulf
People still trying to play Warwick...

L

O

L

You basically have to go full tank or be 100% useless now.
Froslass
It actually works for low elo. Well, anything works for low elo. You can just Ashe AP jg and still win a match.
Vulf
Everything works if you get carried... ;)
OzzyOzrock
funny how league works. i used to main support, mid, and top, hating the other roles

but now my best roles are jungle and adc

lel
Rukario
NA sucks with Rengar,
Dignitas throwing at Baron,
Gambit stomping in IEM,
Diamond coming up with new picks in the jungle-

Nothing to see here folks.
BrokenArrow
yes i can copy reddit top comments too :^)
Froslass
vulf you're being pretty harsh on me. >: I'm not good at anything else in the jungle and I'm a pretty new/noob player
Vulf
The less you complain about your teammates and the more you work on improving yourself is the faster you get out of your elo hell.

Being harsh or not but complaining about your team (even with the feeders) while building Warwick wrong isn't going to get you anywhere ever. There is always something you can improve on so who cares if some idiot goes 0/90 in 2 seconds while threatening to murder you entire family in all chat. Try your best learn from your mistakes when trying to win from being behind and move on afterwards.

You should never get bork after skirmishers. You either go jungle item (devourer enchant) + Wits End if ahead go bork, if behind go tank item depending on who the bigger threat is on the enemy team.

The on hit build is fine if your team is doing well but when behind it's pretty bad. It's a cheese build now.

Lately I've been getting the jungernaut enchant on Warwick because 500 health and CDR for 1500 gold is broken. The devourer's enchant lost almost half of it's early game damage so it just isn't that optimal on Warwick anymore. Warwick has always been more effective as a drain tank.
Froslass
this IS a normal game though ;p I don't mind the elo I currently am but the server toxicity is just unbearable.
I've tried playing with champs such as Rengar and Kha'Zix but I just don't seem to be as good as with Warwick. I feel like WW's ganks work much better because of the ultimate. IDK what I'm talking about as I'm not a main jg, but yeah
Vulf
If this is purely based off people being toxic then just mute and deal with it. It doesn't matter what region your are really or even what game you are playing because those type of people exist everywhere.
Renevant
Warwick is still an acceptable jungler right now, even after various nerfs. He's basically a guaranteed kill on any lane that can bring out the damage to follow up. He's not the instant-win that he used to be, but he's still an easy-to-pick up jungler that has an impact. IMO anyways.
He still gets banned in higher elo so i guess that's something.
Vulf
He is an acceptable jungler when you build and play him correctly. Going that shitty god awful on hit build and just pressing R which results in the Warwick feeding now is not how you play him anymore. You can still go that build if you get ahead but not when the game is even and definitely not when you are behind.

I am diamond 2 and every time I see a Warwick go that build I troll them by saying they failed to press R correctly and should feel bad for failing to play one of the easiest champions in the game. Warwick currently has less than a 46% winrate in diamond because people are idiots and still think that build works.

Skirmishers into juggernaut followed by a wits end then tank items is how you build him now. I want to run stalkers blade against some matchups to see how viable that is.
OzzyOzrock
People that can't deal with toxic players (mutes etc) really have no place in competitive communities
Cyclohexane
Froslass

Vulf wrote:

He is an acceptable jungler when you build and play him correctly. Going that shitty god awful on hit build and just pressing R which results in the Warwick feeding now is not how you play him anymore. You can still go that build if you get ahead but not when the game is even and definitely not when you are behind.

I am diamond 2 and every time I see a Warwick go that build I troll them by saying they failed to press R correctly and should feel bad for failing to play one of the easiest champions in the game. Warwick currently has less than a 46% winrate in diamond because people are idiots and still think that build works.

Skirmishers into juggernaut followed by a wits end then tank items is how you build him now. I want to run stalkers blade against some matchups to see how viable that is.
That's surely showing how you are a nice person. Then again I wouldn't expect being decent at d2.
Vulf
When someone picks my main champion in ranked and does terribly with it I can't help myself. Other than that I hardly ever talk in game anymore.

People are still really bad this high up because I still see the same mistakes I saw a ton of people doing in silver and gold. That is how inflated this system is. Toxic wise it gets pretty bad as you climb through plat and low diamond.
Renevant
20 minute wait time, oh god
OzzyOzrock
I'm just playing on LAN meanwhile haha
Blaziken


AYY LMAO, WHAT!?
Jazz


well isn't that just fancy
Justykanna

Blaziken wrote:



AYY LMAO, WHAT!?
What? Hacked? Or ... you're waiting for a transfer? You resolve that?
Blaziken

Justykanna wrote:

Blaziken wrote:



AYY LMAO, WHAT!?
What? Hacked? Or ... you're waiting for a transfer? You resolve that?
Transfering costs RP and I have no desire to play anywhere else apart from EUW. So maybe it's a bug on riots end. Either that or someone is paying money to fuck with me.
Haven't gotten a reply from support so I guess I'll just stomp people shitter than I am. It's not against the rules to make another account, is it?
VoidnOwO

Blaziken wrote:

It's not against the rules to make another account, is it?
considering popular streamers are given lv. 30 accounts with all rune pages and skins to go troll in low elo ranked, i'd say no.


This game got boring and I haven't played for a while, is the "kalista op instaban pls" hype over already?
roufou

BRBP wrote:

Blaziken wrote:

It's not against the rules to make another account, is it?
considering popular streamers are given lv. 30 accounts with all rune pages and skins to go troll in low elo ranked, i'd say no.


This game got boring and I haven't played for a while, is the "kalista op instaban pls" hype over already?
the hype never started, I don't think anyone ever though kalista was even good


edit: I'm not saying she's awful, but I think most people agree that she is somewhat outclassed
Renevant
Too hard to play. Its like when azir was first released. It's not that she's weak, but she has a pretty big learning curve.
Nofool
Kalista is pretty strong but if well played as usual and as ^ said, she's harder to handle than many others adc x_x
the perma dash really is op but using it well and everytime isn't that easy, you won't see it that much below at least low dia i guess (i saw some strong ones in 4/5)
i still have not tested her but peoples told me using the dash is like cancelling a normal attack (which won't be cancelled in this case), this move can be hard to repeat (not if you are just chasing or running away i guess) x_x
+ pretty usefull Ulti but useless if you are alone or just not with the targeted one in your team...

Have anyone a good build for jungle Rek'sai ? im still not used with these new jungle items (i havent played that much since that new pre-season ,_,)
OzzyOzrock
champion spotlight build is always best build ;)))) fk
roufou

Nofool wrote:

Kalista is pretty strong but if well played as usual and as ^ said, she's harder to handle than many others adc x_x
the perma dash really is op but using it well and everytime isn't that easy, you won't see it that much below at least low dia i guess (i saw some strong ones in 4/5)
i still have not tested her but peoples told me using the dash is like cancelling a normal attack (which won't be cancelled in this case), this move can be hard to repeat (not if you are just chasing or running away i guess) x_x
+ pretty usefull Ulti but useless if you are alone or just not with the targeted one in your team...

Have anyone a good build for jungle Rek'sai ? im still not used with these new jungle items (i havent played that much since that new pre-season ,_,)
rek'sai has a lot of various paths early game, for jungle item either go trailblazer (the purple one) or the stalker's blade (the blue one), which one you want is pretty obvious, want better ganks? stalker's. just want to farm most of the game? trailblazer.
for jungle enchantment you can usually go warrior, devourer or maybe juggernaut. warrior is better for earlygame damage and more burst, devourer is better lategame for more consistent damage. if you're somehow behind or something or feel the need to go full tank you can build juggernaut. not sure which I'd go after the devourer nerf but before it I'd go devourer probably.
for second item go BORK or ravenous, depends on what you think you need, or what you think is best. you seem to be pretty skilled I guess so you probably know which you think you need.
that's pretty much all you need to know, after that you probably should just build tank, and those are pretty situational items like sunfire, randuin's, warmog's etc., you catch my drift
Renevant
chat not working :(
Stefan


wrecked them
Renevant

Stefan wrote:



wrecked them
noice
that caitlyn must've been a pain because of the banshees
silmarilen
if anything kass leaving was good, i think he was gonna feed like hell.
also got my first pentakill here
Renevant

silmarilen wrote:

if anything kass leaving was good, i think he was gonna feed like hell.
also got my first pentakill here
Omfg, nice
Your first PENTA kill at lvl 5. I didn't get mine till about 1000 games.
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