yuikonnu - Chikyuu Saigo no Kokuhaku o · forum

Aleks719

osu! Alumni

Joined May 2010

Aleks719 2014-11-18T20:19:41+00:00

Amamiya Yuko wrote:
= Overmapped, unrankable.
= Fine! Ranked!
What's the logic

mmmh, okay.
Dear Fycho, Amamiya Yuko thinks that patterns mentioned by him on the 2nd screenshot are out of logic.
If you agree with him, remove them too and thank him for help. If you do not agree ask him not to interfere with ranking process. Thank you.

Kinomi

1,223 posts

Joined August 2012

Kinomi 2014-11-18T21:19:35+00:00

00:53:956 (1,2,3,4) - this is just a "x x ox" rhythm, you never see sth like this in a song? joking?
00:58:062 (5,1,2) - if i add a note at 00:58:141 it can also be well to play
01:08:167 (5,1,2) - ^
so it is one way to use bluelines rhythm, and as i said before, you never see this kind of rhythm in a song? joking?
people can't play the rhythm well != the rhythm is incorrect.
01:09:588 (2,3) - take care of the vocal you can find it is lengthened, so it is fine to use 3/4 slider to make the feeling of delay.
In standard mode, rhythm, is not, only, drum, nor vocal, you, must, try, your best, to, show them, at the same time.
Only if, only, if, you too noob to do this or you think it plays really bad, you can ignore one of them. <- Plz alaways think how to show them at the same time.
01:23:325-01:24:272 all 1/8 or sth more frequently.
etc for same moments

Unfortunately,
mapping is not only "flow is not bad, rhythm not incorrect, placement is not a mess, hitsound is not noise."

I won't reply to anyone.
Don't touch me, thank you.

Saoji

825 posts

Joined February 2013

Saoji 2014-11-19T00:02:01+00:00

*sigh*

Kibbleru

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Joined August 2013

Kibbleru 2014-11-19T01:34:23+00:00

Aleks719 wrote:
Amamiya Yuko wrote:
= Overmapped, unrankable.
= Fine! Ranked!
What's the logic
mmmh, okay.
Dear Fycho, Amamiya Yuko thinks that patterns mentioned by him on the 2nd screenshot are out of logic.
If you agree with him, remove them too and thank him for help. If you do not agree ask him not to interfere with ranking process. Thank you.

i lol'd a bit.

what is this aleks so gud at checking those unused hitsounds lol.

Saoji

825 posts

Joined February 2013

Saoji 2014-11-19T02:20:11+00:00

Aleks719 wrote:
Amamiya Yuko wrote:
= Overmapped, unrankable.
= Fine! Ranked!
What's the logic
mmmh, okay.
Dear Fycho, Amamiya Yuko thinks that patterns mentioned by him on the 2nd screenshot are out of logic.
If you agree with him, remove them too and thank him for help. If you do not agree ask him not to interfere with ranking process. Thank you.

Considering the term "overmap" I think the question "what's the logic" about the screenshots is a pretty good one though. An answer would be nice.

EDIT: Oh well, nvm.

Last edited by Saoji 2014-11-19T04:02:49+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

captin1

osu! Alumni

2,595 posts

Joined February 2011

captin1 2014-11-19T03:57:28+00:00

welcome to abuse by those with power to get maps how they want them to be

there is nothing unrankable about the rhythms used, it's your opinion on how those sections should be mapped versus yuko's.

remove the extra hitsound mistakenly left in, and let's get this back.

Fycho

Global Moderator

2,479 posts

Joined August 2012

Topic Starter

Fycho 2014-11-19T05:40:51+00:00

*R.I.P* removed unused hitsounds.

Natsu

8,074 posts

Joined September 2012

Natsu 2014-11-19T06:49:05+00:00

Some suggestions, maybe Yuko can get a compromise, anyways if you don't feel like changing just ignore my post

00:54:272 - probably this rhythm can be better:

00:58:298 - 01:08:404 - :

01:09:588 (2) - about this one, I don't see nothing wrong with it, vocal is probably off, but is there, also is a slider I don't see how this can be considered overmapped, basically you don't need to be accurate to hit a slider.

01:24:114 - this 1/8 follow the speed up in the song really nice, I used something similar here https://osu.ppy.sh/b/313508&m=0

just my two cents

Skystar

1,628 posts

Joined May 2011

Skystar 2014-11-19T09:26:00+00:00

Natsu's suggestions actually make sense to me after testplaying, applied.

Thanks for help guys! Should be good to go now: http://puu.sh/cWVZe/b8cfd85abc.osu

Fycho

Global Moderator

2,479 posts

Joined August 2012

Topic Starter

Fycho 2014-11-19T11:47:31+00:00

updated o/\o

Delis

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Joined May 2012

Delis 2014-11-19T12:12:17+00:00

yay re-bubbled

IamKwaN

osu! Alumni

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Joined August 2012

IamKwaN 2014-11-19T15:04:03+00:00

[General]

drum-hitwhistle5.wav & soft-slidertick6.wav - 10 ms delay http://puu.sh/cX8X6.png
drum-sliderslide5.wav normal-sliderslide5.wav 為啥有音用soft那個代替阿

[Easy]

00:45:114 (3,1) - Stack
01:44:483 (1) - *accidental* DS
02:38:483 (3) - Intentionally different hitsounds from 01:35:325 (3) - 03:45:430 (3) - ? Same for other diffs.
03:19:219 (2) - DS, should be same like 03:28:062 (1,2) -

[Skystar]

01:34:220 - 02:37:377 - 03:58:219 - Unsnapped kiai 綠線

[Insane]

03:44:798 - Redundant green line.

Aleks719

osu! Alumni

2,436 posts

Joined May 2010

Aleks719 2014-11-19T18:07:39+00:00

No.

Don't mix terms. You talk about rhythms, i talk about overmap.
Rhythm would be fine, but it follows nothing. If objects follow nothing it means map is overmapped.
That's not my vision, that's objective. Difficulty has obects without any feedback in music.

Saoji

825 posts

Joined February 2013

Saoji 2014-11-19T19:18:34+00:00

Aleks719 wrote:
No.

Don't mix terms. You talk about rhythms, i talk about overmap.
Rhythm would be fine, but it follows nothing. If objects follow nothing it means map is overmapped.
That's not my vision, that's objective. Difficulty has obects without any feedback in music.

Those are here to sustain (as James/NatsumeRin at some points used to do).

(If the GUIDEline are rules, thanks to add those on rank criteria btw. Because this is more and more confusing for everyone, including BATs).

Kibbleru

osu! Alumni

5,844 posts

Joined August 2013

Kibbleru 2014-11-19T22:25:51+00:00

Yales wrote:
Aleks719 wrote:
No.

Don't mix terms. You talk about rhythms, i talk about overmap.
Rhythm would be fine, but it follows nothing. If objects follow nothing it means map is overmapped.
That's not my vision, that's objective. Difficulty has obects without any feedback in music.
Those are here to sustain (as James/NatsumeRin at some points used to do).

(If the GUIDEline are rules, thanks to add those on rank criteria btw. Because this is more and more confusing for everyone, including BATs).

doesn't need to be unrankable objectively to get unranked, well c how this sorts out.

however,
@aleks i feel like you could point out the parts that you have problems against, so we at least know what we should work with.

i really like this diff myself (although i cant even play it lol) and i think its already very good as it is for this nature of mapping.

captin1

osu! Alumni

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Joined February 2011

captin1 2014-11-20T01:56:24+00:00

Why is the map being slightly overmapped a cause for unrank? It's rhythmic additions designed to enhance the feeling of the song that the mapper has, a very valid and common practice within mapping.

This is a fantastic map born from Amamiya Yuko's unique style that provides a fresh take on the song while still maintaining great playability. Trying to trample on that is quite simply, ruining his style. And that's not what the two beatmap moderation teams are for. They're for refining and encouraging mapping techniques and styles to where they are able to be showcased as a ranked map. I'm extremely disappointed that this completely backwards thinking of trying to force a mapper to change something subjective to rank a map still exists.

Please stop, Aleks.

Edit: In case it is not clear, I will say this:

The fact that there is overmap present in the diff is objective. Whether or not it is rankable is subjective based on opinion. Your persistence in trying to force changes on this subjective issue of rankability is abuse and ideally should not be tolerated under any ranking system.

Last edited by captin1 2014-11-20T09:38:57+00:00, edited 2 times in total.

Natsu

8,074 posts

Joined September 2012

Natsu 2014-11-20T03:06:35+00:00

Aleks719 wrote:
No.

Don't mix terms. You talk about rhythms, i talk about overmap.
Rhythm would be fine, but it follows nothing. If objects follow nothing it means map is overmapped.
That's not my vision, that's objective. Difficulty has obects without any feedback in music.

But that's a guideline, not a rule, also the amount of overmap is really little in comparison with other already ranked maps, personally I found Yuko's diff really fun and well designed diff, looking at the thread you are the only one that have problems with it, being this a very subjective issue, I guess we can get more opinions from other BAT/QATs to find a solution. Forcing a mapper to change what he don't want is really bad, instead can be nice if you can provide him a mod pointing what in your opinion is bad/overmapped/etc.. and bring him solutions or suggestions to find an appropiate solution in which the two parts end in a good deal.

Hope you can move this map forward soon GL

Kinomi

1,223 posts

Joined August 2012

Kinomi 2014-11-20T05:55:58+00:00

what we should learn more is how to map, learn how to present the music, how to show our understanding of the music, how to share our understanding with players.

not the definition of overmap.

Koiyuki

2,531 posts

Joined March 2013

Koiyuki 2014-11-20T08:19:24+00:00

honestly
i dont know why qats catch the overmap issues so carefully now and consider it as an unrankable issue
if overmap become an unrankable issue one day, i cant imagine what will happen on mapping
~~also rip my extra on another map~~

i just leave my opinion here:
if overmap let the map become more confortable and enjoyable, good
if not, bad

and imo, skystar's diff is good

Saoji

825 posts

Joined February 2013

Saoji 2014-11-20T14:02:51+00:00

Yep yep, overmap can be a good thing too

Tsukuyomi wrote:
what we should learn more is how to map, learn how to present the music, how to show our understanding of the music, how to share our understanding with players.

not the definition of overmap.

BAT pls

CSLM

1,058 posts

Joined May 2013

CSLM 2014-11-20T23:52:35+00:00

Minakami Yuki wrote:
honestly
i dont know why qats catch the overmap issues so carefully now and consider it as an unrankable issue
if overmap become an unrankable issue one day, i cant imagine what will happen on mapping
~~also rip my extra on another map~~

i just leave my opinion here:
if overmap let the map become more confortable and enjoyable, good
if not, bad

and imo, skystar's diff is good

i'm agree with this, the overmap is converted now in part of the actual kind of mapping. A lot of people love the overmapped streams and 3/4 overlaps (i'm included in this, specialy in the low BPM maps, like this: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/141672)

i think really stupid the unqualify now for that, the overmap is part of the mapping now, i don't really neccesary what the QATs prohibit it

xxdeathx

2,661 posts

Joined July 2013

xxdeathx 2014-11-21T08:21:58+00:00

Oh the irony (t/223543)

Let's actually make it happen though. It's no fun to leave a map disqualified.

Charles445

Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon

2,881 posts

Joined March 2009

Charles445 2014-11-21T18:21:02+00:00

Hi

For the blues after the reds in the slow portion at 00:54:000 - , there is the occasional extra kick in the drums.
I'll document the places where they happen below.

00:54:825 -
00:55:772 -
00:58:298 -
00:58:930 -
01:02:719 -
01:03:667 -
01:03:983 -
01:04:062 - From this point on there is an 8 bit sound that is 1/4 all over.

That's quite a lot! It would make sense to have some 3 note streams in here.
Now with that in mind, let's go to the Kokuhaku difficulty and see if any circles don't quite fit on those beats in that slow section.

Circle at 00:55:772 (4) - Quiet kick in music
Circle at 00:56:719 (2) - Nothing
Circle at 00:57:667 (2) - Nothing
Circle at 00:58:930 (5) - Quiet kick in music
Circle at 01:02:719 (5) - Quiet kick, also vocalist beginning "s"
Circle at 01:03:667 (4) - Loud kick in music
Circle at 01:05:246 (5) - 8 bit noise
Circle at 01:05:877 (2) - 8 bit noise
Circle at 01:07:772 (2) - 8 bit noise
Circle at 01:09:035 (5) - 8 bit noise

Also, the mapper can choose to add circles to 00:54:825 - , 00:58:298 - , and 01:03:983 - if desired, and at any point after 01:04:062 -.

So basically there are only two overmapped circles here.
To be honest, that's very, very little, and I highly doubt most players would notice considering they are found in 3 note streams.
Most players mentally line up streams based on where the red and white ticks line up. That's why a lot of streams have new combos every 4 notes; it makes it easier to keep track of how fast you need to stream. A stream as small as three notes hardly needs any of that deep thought.

So is overmapping bad? Yeah, but in cases like this, it's not really hurting that much, and it definitely isn't happening a lot.

Let's stop getting worked up over small things and let's push this towards qualified again.

(also if I need to clarify anything, please let me know)
EDIT:
(oh actually should point out, the overmapping examples given in the unrank post, none of those were actually overmapped, see the information above)

Kibbleru

osu! Alumni

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Joined August 2013

Kibbleru 2014-11-22T00:51:26+00:00

charles ftw!

Aleks719

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2,436 posts

Joined May 2010

Aleks719 2014-11-22T09:35:17+00:00

Nice explanation, Charles.

Actually main problems have been already fixed by sliders, beats on blue ticks were too quiet for using for notes, but fine for end of sliders or reverses. Talked with Yuko via irc

edit:
bubble was given after applied mod by Iamkwan

Natsu

8,074 posts

Joined September 2012

Natsu 2014-11-22T09:39:23+00:00

placeholder then, brb

Skystar

1,628 posts

Joined May 2011

Skystar 2014-11-22T10:05:08+00:00

thanks for all the help guys!
~~(and someone give charles a kd pls lol)~~

Fycho

Global Moderator

2,479 posts

Joined August 2012

Topic Starter

Fycho 2014-11-22T10:27:30+00:00

IamKwaN wrote:
[General]
drum-hitwhistle5.wav & soft-slidertick6.wav - 10 ms delay http://puu.sh/cX8X6.png
drum-sliderslide5.wav normal-sliderslide5.wav 為啥有音用soft那個代替阿
[Easy]
00:45:114 (3,1) - Stack
01:44:483 (1) - *accidental* DS
02:38:483 (3) - Intentionally different hitsounds from 01:35:325 (3) - 03:45:430 (3) - ? Same for other diffs. 的确是故意的都是复制的insane
03:19:219 (2) - DS, should be same like 03:28:062 (1,2) -
[Skystar]
01:34:220 - 02:37:377 - 03:58:219 - Unsnapped kiai 綠線
[Insane]
03:44:798 - Redundant green line.

all fixed unless that is replied， changed hitsounds please redownload.
thanks everyone who supports my map and aleks's understanding(especially charles<3)

Natsu

8,074 posts

Joined September 2012

Natsu 2014-11-22T10:54:44+00:00

Here you go

Saoji

825 posts

Joined February 2013

Saoji 2014-11-22T15:05:07+00:00

Congratz