Bauxe wrote:

fartownik wrote:

I expect this post to be deleted but whatever, at least so many people can see this.

OMG how rude of Netherlands not wishing Aus good luck!

you made us play at 11am, what did you expect lol

Nashmun wrote:

And the twitch chat was being a huge cancer.

You say to stop using "communism" as an insult because it is offensive, but you use the term "cancer" improperly, and that can be very offensive to some people

Nashmun wrote:

Same story every year. The same childs keep whining before the tournament even begin and keep whining until the tournament ends. yet they are still here every year, you threat every year but you never do anything. Just undertake your words, and don't play if you are unhappy, stop building unecessary drama everytime. If you think people can do whatever they want just because they are good players without facing any consequencies just make your own tournament where people can do whatever they like, say whatever they want and behave as diresrespectful and offensive as they want. The rules were clear from the beginning, if you don't agree with them just don't register...

And the twitch chat was being a huge cancer.

And by the way, you don't know what communism is, so stop spreading it like an insult or to imply you are facing a dictatorship. You also do not know what a dictatorship and your comparison is offensive and arrogant.

I'm just going to enjoy the rest of the matches from now and look forward to the other world cups when people are actually being civilized unlike here.

You can now go back to where you came from, wherever you were for the whole tournament, because you're clearly not updated.

Synchrostar wrote:

you made us play at 11am, what did you expect lol

But you still destroyed us

R9k mode prevents twitch chat from sending identical messages. Instantly solves spam. They aren't trying to moderate. This is just one giant power trip.

Nashmun wrote:

Same story every year. The same childs keep whining before the tournament even begin and keep whining until the tournament ends. yet they are still here every year, you threat every year but you never do anything. Just undertake your words, and don't play if you are unhappy, stop building unecessary drama everytime. If you think people can do whatever they want just because they are good players without facing any consequencies just make your own tournament where people can do whatever they like, say whatever they want and behave as diresrespectful and offensive as they want. The rules were clear from the beginning, if you don't agree with them just don't register...

And the twitch chat was being a huge cancer.

And by the way, you don't know what communism is, so stop spreading it like an insult or to imply you are facing a dictatorship. You also do not know what a dictatorship and your comparison is offensive and arrogant.

I'm just going to enjoy the rest of the matches from now and look forward to the other world cups when people are actually being civilized unlike here.

What a typical guy totally uninvolved in the tournament would say. Actually with additional bullshit.

"Don't play if you're unhappy" - Sad that we would've been banned if we decided to resign. This gives me an impression that you have hardly any idea about what caused the drama and therefore people like you shouldn't even open this thread.

Describing us as children (childs lol) despite probably being younger than many OWC players + the sheer fact of putting everyone into the same bag is as offensive.

We're calling it communism because it reminds us of, for example, the times of Stalin who would order to murder anyone who would stand against him, no matter how harmless the opponent it would be.


tl;dr disappear

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

We're calling it communism because it reminds us of, for example, the times of Stalin who would order to murder anyone who would stand against him, no matter how harmless the opponent it would be.

This is not communism, it's called dictatorship/autocracy.

Bauxe wrote:

Synchrostar wrote:

you made us play at 11am, what did you expect lol

But you still destroyed us

yeah we were mad and tired so we put our tryhard pants on at least the warmups were fun

good luck in loser bracket HERE I SAID IT

If you look over the rules, it never said anything about silence = not being able to play. Just because Loctav is one of the moderators of the tournament, doesn't mean he can do whatever he wants when he feels like it.

Also, I think the 'children' in this thread just want to make the OWC better. Sure, spamming the chat may be just Twitch mannerisms taking over, but there is a valid point to make when you look at the way the 'silence gate' was handled.

As a matter of fact, yes, ik what is comunism.
Why I always bring up the word, because im still angry at the chinese communist party.
Don't think you can stop me saying that word.

And, I think we should lay it down. We'll hear Loctav's response first then we will see what will happen then.

Athrun_Yamato wrote:

And, I think we should lay it down. We'll hear Loctav's response first then we will see what will happen then.

There will be no response, the last 10 pages of the topic will be erased and we will continue the tournament in the same sweet manner. We're just talking here while we still can.

There is no point on arguing publicly on this anymore. But don't assume things that are untrue, just because I don't talk a lot doesn't mean I know nothing and I followed the whole story. If you didn't understand that childs actually stood for the behaviour and not your age then there is nothing I can do anymore. If you still want to discuss about it just PM me but I don't think it really worth it.

Just enjoy the tournament and don't bring unecessary drama everytime something happen, that was actually my point even if my post seemed aggressive.

Tshemmp wrote:

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

We're calling it communism because it reminds us of, for example, the times of Stalin who would order to murder anyone who would stand against him, no matter how harmless the opponent it would be.

This is not communism, it's called dictatorship.

MY FUCKING GOD I KNOW

I just explained that since Stalin was a part of communist party it reminds us of communism. He was really dictator and we all know this. (Officially he was :just: a General Secretary)

That's what it boils down to. I want to see the OWC succeed. But this is only going to ruin its reputation if it keeps going in this direction. It's going to get to the point where only die-hards will tune in. I see the potential for great entertainment value through osu competitions, but the way things are now is just one huge self-destruct button.

Nashmun wrote:

Just enjoy the tournament and don't bring unecessary drama everytime something happen, that was actually my point even if my post seemed aggressive.

I guess, this is kinda hard, when you're not able to play for telling someone to chill. You should see it in the players perspective.

Oh man... I've never seen such a messy tournament. So much unnecessary drama.

I am not saying the way the tournament is managed is perfect, but was it worth it polluating the chat with insults and bring it to the forum with no constructive comments ? (I'm talking about this particular case, there were indeed constructive discussions in this thread).

And do people really think Loctav is just enjoying having power and ban people because he likes it ? Of course I understand the player point of view, being a world cup player myself, I'd be pissed too, but I would never takes this to this level.

absolute power corrupts absolutely

i'm just here for the twitch bit though. i really do not understand why you would ever moderate twitch chat. the only reason when you need to clear and/or moderate is when shit is out of control. that was not the case here. not by miles. this was just a simple riot. let the fucking chat have their riot. that's what twitch is about. if you truly cannot have the backbone, sense of humor or just brain to comprehend these type of events that occur in the twitch chat, then fucking leave twitch. twitch is where fun is allowed. if you don't like fun, go host this shit on dailymotion.

Nashmun wrote:

I am not saying the way the tournament is managed is perfect, but was it worth it polluating the chat with insults and bring it to the forum with no constructive comments ? (I'm talking about this particular case, there were indeed constructive discussions in this thread).

Have you met twitch chat before, that should not come as a surprise. Also the heavy moderating is not helping with this issue.

Nashmun wrote:

And do people really think Loctav is just enjoying having power and ban people because he likes it ? Of course I understand the player point of view, being a world cup player myself, I'd be pissed too, but I would never takes this to this level.

Point is he overreacted, simple as this. The silence was in no way justified.

So much unnessesary drama coming up around that NL-Aus match.

From what i can tell mostly caused by a flawed organization pushing people into hurrying up in a very mean way. I'm not saying Loctav is the single reason here, i know why he pushes the players to hurry up, yet he is doing it the wrong way imo. There are options to be nice about it. If you are being nice you can mostly expect appropriate behaviour from your partner in conversations.
Still this may sound harsh, but i think a person who gets so abusive to players should not have the rights to ban or silence players, this is a thing to think about.

A total different thing is how the twitch chat is being handled. That approach is just straightup wrong from what i can tell. If you ban out emotes, names of players or unpleasant comments, that just causes more and more spam. People are not going to step down because they got timed out for a second, but they will instead try to fight authority, its just natural human nature.
I don't want to say to allow all spam, mods can certainly time out abusive spam or incredibly mean comments. But as it stands no humor is accepted by any moderation and that just lowers everyones fun. Mods and commentators dont have fun because people start to riot and spam, people rooting for their team dont have fun because chat gets ruined and they cant even put emotes after their comment.

OWC wants to appear like a "professional" tournament, but at the same time they have flawed rules like when a player DCs its his fault, even if i have seen on stream of players that they DCed from bancho without their internet dropping. Also the stream is heavily influences by lag issues which goes to show how stable the servers really are and no, this is not a twitch issue. It should be decided whether OWC is supposed to be "for fun" or full-on "competetive". Either way, changes should be made both in staff and in attitude of the organisation.

Köttbullar!

SWEDEN YES

THE UPSET HAS BEEN DONE

gg

-meatballs intensify-

Xytox wrote:

THE UPSET HAS BEEN DONE

Sweden confirmed for doping themselves with meatballs.

Match results please.

Results are always added to wiki by the end of all matches
never the less:

China	2	5	South Korea 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10507941
Australia 	2	5	Netherlands 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10508932
Ukraine 	5	1	Taiwan 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10509978
Sweden 	5	3	Japan	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10510938
Poland 			France 	
Germany 			Russian Federation 	
United Kingdom 			Austria 	
Argentina 			United States 	
				

Let me kick in to explain a few things:

Please consider that this tournament, for us, the managers, is very stressful, as in we get bombarded with a lot of questions, blames, issues, stuff (not to speak of the secondary business running parallely to the OWC), therefore it can result in getting a bit more hectic and heated up in the Match Rooms as we actually intend it to be.

For the case everyone talking about: Yes, I am sorry, it turned out like that. I understand the implication that this odd passive joke may not have warranted a silence under this circumstances, yet please understand that several people were already blaming me for silencing Happyjon, who pretty much got himself silenced by BanchoBot for spamming #minecraft (his fault, we can not revoke BanchoBot silences). Let's say, I was pretty much agitated people spamming me already with that stuff. This said, some rosters or players here intentionally or unintentionally eat up time without any clear purpose. They chitchat in the Match Rooms, delay the picks, do not listen to the management at all, they pretty much do what they want. Sure we start to put pressure then, by letting them only 1 minute time to decide their pick, to decide their substitute, to get ready (in case someone has to pee, he can say it beforehand and we can wait for another 2 mins or something, that's totally fine). But most delays are unneeded delays. Whilst the viewers are moaning about "why does it take so long", the players mostly just mess around. And then they tell me constantly "to chill" or to "calm down please", whereas they take literally 15 minutes to pick 1 map. Consider, that there are also other matches running that we want to stream, fully. From start to end. People being selfish enough to delay the match needlessly, because they don't care about the other matches (because we have to delay the runner-up ones sometimes for this slow behavior), I start to give time limits.

If people constantly make fun of more for that or start to still mess around, ignore the managements requests and then start to make passive-aggressive jokes, just because to be funny or to agitate me, then yes, I can overreact. Okay, it was an overreaction in this specific case. Luckily, Netherlands won anyways, so at least this was no loss directly.

Anyways, for the future: Please respect that the tournament is constructed around a tight schedule, especially to comfort viewers and players the most, considering all the time zones and masses of players antipiciating this event. Therefore, also respect that if we give you a request, you shall follow it. If we ask you to pick a map within 1 minute, do not take yourself 2 minutes. Do not discuss 5 minutes for exchanging people. Do not start to talk about your latest birthday party. Try to make the match go fluent and fast, so everyone is calm and happy. (refer to the Japan vs Sweden match). I know you all have a strategy or want to play trump cards. That's totally fine. But you have 1 week to prepare yourself on all maps, you also have all the time you need to prepare the maps you want to ban and all the possilble rosters you want to use for a specific map. You also could already plan ahead who uses what mod in a freemod pick. This is all planable. Every delay you can reduce from your side makes everything happier and fluent. Ultimatively, I revoked the silence from HappyStick and I apologize sincerely for the issue, yet beg for your understanding that this was a fault that does not solely lies on my side.

Whereas I promise to be more chilled and calm, polite and nice, I ask you all, players and viewers, to also be more disciplined and respectful towards the tournaments, its rules and the requests of the referee.

Thanks for your attention.

Just something, but I do believe in some cases 1 minute might not really be enough, especially if the opposite team picks one of the maps you'd already planned, things dont work out as you thought, or similar, and you have to talk to your whole rooster through ingame-pm or something. While I don't really know how the chat has been, or how the matches have been going in general, but just throwing it out for what it's worth.

CXu wrote:

Just something, but I do believe in some cases 1 minute might not really be enough, especially if the opposite team picks one of the maps you'd already planned, things dont work out as you thought, or similar, and you have to talk to your whole rooster through ingame-pm or something. While I don't really know how the chat has been, or how the matches have been going in general, but just throwing it out for what it's worth.

You can use all language-specific channels on OWC bancho for that. They are existing and empty (in case PM is too complicated). But yeh, well, even if we say 1 minute, they usually just need 20 seconds (average). When someone surpasses the 1 minute, I tend to poke them again, finally ending up at 2 minutes, anyways. We mostly only give the cap for rosters being known for taking unnecessary time anyways.

I just want to say that I really appreciate your answer Loctav and that you have my respect.

I can respect your point of view and I will accept

While I respect the response and apology, it doesn't really change the fact that the staff team's first reaction to people getting (justifiably) pissed off by this was to go "oh shit, we better silence and ban anyone who even mentions it". I understand that many of these were rescinded, but that's still an awful reaction to anyone simply bringing up a concern they have, and the issue is that it happened at all.

Sorry loctav but you're failing to prove yourself as a mod who can handle this job time and time again. it is so sad to see that the only way you handle things is by silencing people. use a better method that can maybe gain some respect for you because right now, no one has any for you.

"Luckily Netherlands won anyways" <-- are you serious? think about this quote

you're right. it is very lucky netherlands won because if they lost because the shitstorm would be 50x greater.


Im actually going to post this because this is absolutely disgusting behaviour for a mod. just such a childish way of handling things.

*I understand that it must be unbelievably stressful from the feedback of the community (even myself) but you're just not allowed to do this. its nothing more than abusing your power. Im sure its just plain frustrating when people dont listen to you but you need to think about your actions and what consequences may come from them. please. please.

First of all, thanks for the reply, Loctav! Really appreciate it.

But I can see why community is upset at the way the tournament is ran.
I won't go over the multi-account and OWC-ban because it's been done to death already and if Eph's word is worth anything then it will be handled differently in the next OWC's (if they happen, that is).
Another issue you addresed already, needless silences in the lobby and barring from further play. As long as you tone it down and 'chill', I think it should get better. Try to be friendlier with players, if the only memories they have from the tournament is silences and the war of community vs staff then players won't want to play in the next OWC's and the community won't want to support it any further.

Now for the issues that I don't think have been addresed:
Tone down the twitch chat moderation, come on. It's twitch chat, you cannot expect 100% positive feedback and friendly discussion. Allow memes, emotes, don't blacklist words (Cookiezi). Allow the chat to have some fun, if they start spamming, laugh at it, they'll stop in a few minutes. There won't be riots if you do stuff properly. Getting on popular streamer's bad side can't end with anything else than the death of the chat.
The biggest problem I have is censorship and shuffling all the problems under the rug. Trying to make the tournament look good while being bad. The casters don't mention any bancho problems or players getting barred from play. "What a surprise! Taiwan was so good last year and now they lost vs Ukraine!", suure, I wonder why. Happystick obviously disconnected because of Bancho's fault, looks obvious enough to anyone who watched his stream, and you told him to shut down any net applications/the stream to fix it. Fartownik got perma banned from osulive chat because he said it was bancho's fault that Happystick dc'd. The community appreciates transparency.

Cheers.

I pretty much agree with what Welil states here.
There are just a lot of unadressed issues here, even with that apology from Loctav.

By the way isn't it an option to just tell people to speed up in a nicer way than just pushing timelimits?
If you're getting told you have a minute to decide, you can pretty much only do a snap decision after 3 seconds. Its not like you can really discuss anything because you put the player in a pressured situation.
The better way in my opinion is to write stuff like: "guys can you speed up, the viewers are waiting." and such.
This way people will speed up (unless they are purposely mean) and they dont get pressured more than nescessary.

The point about twitch chat/censorship has already been made, but also try taking it into account, since it really lowers enjoyment a lot to know that stuff gets hidden/ you cant express your opinion properly in a livechat.

What Cola said, I think it would leave a better taste for both sides if you said something like "Hurry guys, please. We're tight on schedule". Or "Guys, let's stay respectful" instead of "If you tell me to chill one more time I'll silence you".

Welil wrote:

What Cola said, I think it would leave a better taste for both sides if you said something like "Hurry guys, please. We're tight on schedule". Or "Guys, let's stay respectful" instead of "If you tell me to chill one more time I'll silence you".

haha you have no idea how stressful it is to handle a tournament do you..

-Ryuujii- wrote:

Welil wrote:

What Cola said, I think it would leave a better taste for both sides if you said something like "Hurry guys, please. We're tight on schedule". Or "Guys, let's stay respectful" instead of "If you tell me to chill one more time I'll silence you".

haha you have no idea how stressful it is to handle a tournament do you..

Stressful or not, its always cleaner to try a nice solution before throwing around with threats.