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Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf

Sugoi-_-Desu wrote:

there a tons of terribly desgined champs who cant be balanced since they would be either too weak or too strong. e.g. yasuo,kassadin,rengar,kaz, lots of assassins
There is a big difference when you compare kits like Yasuo and Kha'Zix to Kassadin and Rengar. You can balance Yasuo and Kha'Zix with their current kits. I think Kha'Zix is actually in a decent spot now in terms of healthy gameplay. Never really had a problem with that champion until they randomly decided to give him super tankyness in stealth for some reason (which was later removed).

Kits like Rengar and Kassadin will never be healthy for the game and they should be remade from scratch. Been saying this since the first mini rework Kassadin got back in 2010. As long as they try to keep their identity with the reworks those two champions will always be bad for the game or unplayable.
khan119
125 posts
Joined September 2013
khan119
I didnt compare them, i listed them as terribly designed champs.
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
Yasuo and K6 aren't terribly designed though. Is the point of my post.
Their problems are too many free stats in an already overloaded kit which is fixable without a rework unlike Kass and Rengar.
khan119
125 posts
Joined September 2013
khan119
i striked k6 because of that but yasuo actually is teribly designed and unbalancable without him being completely useless or completely overpowered
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
Care to explain why? I'm interested in why you think this.

I agree that he is annoying and frustrating to play against, but he is definitely a champion that can be tweaked some without making him useless.
Witch Mercy
474 posts
Joined August 2011
Witch Mercy
Kha'zix is so fun omg.
I should just play eve and him from now!
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
I wonder what it would do to Yasuo to nerf his crit-building identity. Would annihilate some DPS but where would they compensate if that were to happen?
khan119
125 posts
Joined September 2013
khan119
tell me some of these tweaks that can be applied to yasuo without drastically changing his place in the game
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
If I was going to do some tweaks to Yasuo the first thing I would start with would be his ulti.

Lets take a look at this ability



See how ridiculously overloaded that ability is? Does he really need all of that? No

Does this ability need 1200 range to be used effectively? No
Would nerfing the range affect his gameplay significantly? Not enough to make him unplayable.

Does this ability need to work with other knock ups? No

Would increasing the CD at later levels nerf him enough to hurt his place in the game? No

Another thing would be to remove the maximum flow upon arrival because a big problem with Yasuo is that he is too tanky for what he does.

None of these changes alone would make him unplayable but would hurt him enough to where he is less excruciating to play against. Yasuo isn't binary enough to where changes like this would make him unviable.

If he is still problematic after that I would look at his passive shield.

Most people seem to think wind wall is the problem with that champion when it really is his overloaded passives and ulti.
Last edited by Vulf , edited 1 time in total.
khan119
125 posts
Joined September 2013
khan119
the ult only working on his own airborne would make yasuo so fucking bad
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
Nerfs his late game which is his problematic area aside from the random tankyness, but yeah I agree it's probably too much since that would make that ability way too unreliable.
Could make it only effect one target not sure why it hits multiple.

You still haven't explained to me why you think he is a terribly designed champion?
khan119
125 posts
Joined September 2013
khan119
Your tweaks wouldn't make yasuo a balanced champ. He can still just crit the shit out of ad carrys no matter how far behind he is
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
So you are just going to ignore my question then? Okay

His crit passive isn't anywhere near his problem which is why I said remove some of his tankyness. With supports like braum and morg being dominate there is absolutely no reason a Yasuo should be sticking to a carry to crit the shit out of them unless you got caught in his ult in which case you deserve to die.

He loses some of his tankyness means he is bursted down in fights if he tries to dive an adc.
Last edited by Vulf , edited 1 time in total.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
yasuo is not okay, let's just leave it at that.
not sure how people let him catch up after he feeds enough to stop starvation in africa
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
The same way they let Akali do. Similar issues.
BrokenArrow
2,237 posts
Joined June 2010
BrokenArrow
Except that Akali is balanced
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
Until Yasuo,Talon and a few other champs are nerfed she is.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
Talon? Why Talon?

what
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
I said until then. Not that he needs it.

If I had the choice between playing Talon or Akali I would play Talon. Easier laning phase against more matchups.

I see Talon quite often in high Diamond it's freakin annoying but you can deal with him.
khan119
125 posts
Joined September 2013
khan119
i said hes terribly designed because hes unbalancable
BrokenArrow
2,237 posts
Joined June 2010
BrokenArrow
stop being stubborn and give reasons
Witch Mercy
474 posts
Joined August 2011
Witch Mercy
why did talon suddenly get popular again
also when I play him I feel like I do no dmg LOL
Navizel
2,982 posts
Joined April 2011
Navizel

Graciee wrote:

also when I play him I feel like I do no dmg LOL
me every single time lol

try armor pen reds + armor pen items
Eren Yaeger
122 posts
Joined September 2013
Eren Yaeger
I'm not sure why but recently I've been playing a ton of AD Nidalee and can say for sure that she's extremely fun, even when built AP she's still pretty strong. :>

Same with Akali, the amount of people that don't respect her level 6 power spike is ridiculous and I can get a kill nearly 70% of the time I hit 6.
Navizel
2,982 posts
Joined April 2011
Navizel
AD Nidalee is fun. Most of the time, I play her against Nasus. Nidalee wrecks Nasus early game by harassing him with autos and Nidalee has much more to offer in teamfights than Nasus.
Eren Yaeger
122 posts
Joined September 2013
Eren Yaeger

Navizel wrote:

AD Nidalee is fun. Most of the time, I play her against Nasus. Nidalee wrecks Nasus early game by harassing him with autos and Nidalee has much more to offer in teamfights than Nasus.
I do the same but I build differently when I am fighting a Nasus or another really tanky toplaner and jng where I will usually buy sheen/phage then rush BotRK so I can actually do damage to them when they are trying to farm or get stacks. It also helps with split pushing when you buy a BotRK but you won't get as tanky sooner but you'll be more relevant late game cause you will still have the BotRK passive to help you still do dmg.

It's nice to have a top laner that actually has a ton of variety in what she can build unlike the typical rush BotRK then get tanky.
DothThouHoist
147 posts
Joined September 2013
DothThouHoist
*Plays ADC fizz* lololol
BrokenArrow
2,237 posts
Joined June 2010
BrokenArrow

Eren Yaeger wrote:

It's nice to have a top laner that actually has a ton of variety in what she can build unlike the typical rush BotRK then get tanky.
That's so mid-season 4 though, right now they go either for the Triforce or RoA rush
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
A lot of ranged top laners being played so "bork rush then tanky" is definitely not true..

I kinda miss Renekton being played every game.
Jing Yuan
1,500 posts
Joined September 2013
Jing Yuan
Hey guys, fairly new player here, i have experience midlane and jungle, but no so much support or top.

Can you guys give me champ recommendations and tips for support and top?
Navizel
2,982 posts
Joined April 2011
Navizel
How new though

Top - tank damage, peel, kill enemy carry
Irelia
Put points in your R whenever (q>e>w>w>w>r>w>e>w>>>>>)
Starting Items: Crystalline Flask, 3 health pot, trinket/Doran's Blade, 1 health pot, trinket
Core build: Triforce, Choice of boots (Ninja Tabi against AD, Merc Treads against AP or heavy cc team)
Optional: Blade of the Ruined King
Against AD: Randuin's Omen/Frozen Heart
Against AP: Banshee's Veil/Spirit Visage
Extension: Guardian Angel/Thornmail

Focus on farm, Q a minion if you can't land the last hit. If your enemy got too close, auto-attack them. They will attack back or will run, E them either way. Use your W and auto-attack them to death. If they run and you can't chase, use your q to close the gap. If you have Sheen, AA-E-AA-W-AA...-Q. Make sure to know your matchup though.

Also, ult+auto+ult+auto.. for Sheen procs.

For support
Jordan
1,037 posts
Joined December 2010
Jordan

Vulf wrote:

I said until then. Not that he needs it.

If I had the choice between playing Talon or Akali I would play Talon. Easier laning phase against more matchups.

I see Talon quite often in high Diamond it's freakin annoying but you can deal with him.
What people don't seem to understand is that unlike champions like LB or Kass once Talon goes in he has no means of escape hence why he shouldn't be touched. The silence is short and you can do something about it as long as you survive the burst (as an assassin he's MEANT to burst people, I don't get all the whining). The only reason he's getting popular now is due to nerfs to other assassins, he was considered bad before but really nothing changed about him. There are so many middle lane picks that SHIT on him so hard (Ryze, Swain, Diana, Fizz, anything that can counter him with range) and his pre-6 is awful. If he gets nerfed he will probably fall to shit-tier and then be forgotten for months or years. I hope Riot won't listen to the reddit crybabies...
BrokenArrow
2,237 posts
Joined June 2010
BrokenArrow
Yeah he is in the same situation as Akali: Godlike in low-mid elo due to his stealth, but chokes once people learn how to control him with pink wards. He is great in skirmishes at dragon or baron and he has, unlike most assassin's, strong AOE damage which can make him a strong pick even in competetive play. At least in the right hands. He can get most of his damage out before he gets bursted down so he isn't that risky of a pick, though he is mediocre at best when it comes to sieging.

I haven't seen a pro player play Talon well except for Voyboy yet, I guess people still need to figure out how to play him correctly.

I still think he deserves some changes, be it buffs or nerfs. His passive is a bit awkward and doesn't work well with his usual spell rotation.
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
As more things get nerfed the stronger others get.

Look at Warwick for example. He went from a troll pick to a strong Jungler and this was all due to buffs to his items and nerfs to other strong junglers. His kit was untouched other than bugs fixes which came with even more bugs.

It's already been said by Riot that if they ever decide to nerf Talon he will be losing his silence most likely.
Jing Yuan
1,500 posts
Joined September 2013
Jing Yuan
Thank you Navizel for the help.

I will try to learn how to play Irelia and Leona.
Sapphiire_old_1
1,301 posts
Joined July 2013
Sapphiire_old_1

Navizel wrote:

AD Nidalee is fun. Most of the time, I play her against Nasus. Nidalee wrecks Nasus early game by harassing him with autos and Nidalee has much more to offer in teamfights than Nasus.
Early-Midgame maybe, but late game nasus one shot everyone while beiing super tanky so i doubt it.
Justykanna
1,090 posts
Joined April 2011
Justykanna

Vulf wrote:

A lot of ranged top laners being played
As someone who uses mostly melee champions, I really hope it doesn't keep up... >_>
Navizel
2,982 posts
Joined April 2011
Navizel

SoG Tava wrote:

Navizel wrote:

AD Nidalee is fun. Most of the time, I play her against Nasus. Nidalee wrecks Nasus early game by harassing him with autos and Nidalee has much more to offer in teamfights than Nasus.
Early-Midgame maybe, but late game nasus one shot everyone while beiing super tanky so i doubt it.
That's why you need to force teamfights early and get objectives so they can't get into late game. In case the game reached late game, Nidalee can splitpush just like Nasus.
Daesung-ah
Daesung-ah
as a tryndamere main i dont care whats popular top, all i want is that quinn is deleted from the fucking game because fuck that champ

SPOILER

^stats with tryndamere for reference, d5 71 lp atm
BrokenArrow
2,237 posts
Joined June 2010
BrokenArrow
wait what didn't you use to main Quinn top?
Nofool
Elite Mapper
1,108 posts
Joined February 2011
Nofool

Daesung-ah wrote:

as a tryndamere main i dont care whats popular top, all i want is that quinn is deleted from the fucking game because fuck that champ

SPOILER

^stats with tryndamere for reference, d5 71 lp atm
not even 1k kills...
BrokenArrow
2,237 posts
Joined June 2010
BrokenArrow
Oh god those TSM vs. DIG games are so intense.. just heartattack after heartattack.
AND I'M NOT EVEN A FAN OF EITHER TEAM
Witch Mercy
474 posts
Joined August 2011
Witch Mercy

BrokenArrow wrote:

Oh god those TSM vs. DIG games are so intense.. just heartattack after heartattack.
AND I'M NOT EVEN A FAN OF EITHER TEAM
That culling from turtle though LOL
Too funny.
Navizel
2,982 posts
Joined April 2011
Navizel
Culling for Triforce proc but

https://twitter.com/danielzklein/status ... 2489699328
Nofool
Elite Mapper
1,108 posts
Joined February 2011
Nofool
What about that big lucky crit from zed again x_x happened two times in the game but he managed to end at the second one (CST vs ProLoL)
Daesung-ah
Daesung-ah

BrokenArrow wrote:

wait what didn't you use to main Quinn top?
hey man shut the fuck up quinn is cancer i'd never ever main that shit hard sarcasm
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf

Justykanna wrote:

Vulf wrote:

A lot of ranged top laners being played
As someone who uses mostly melee champions, I really hope it doesn't keep up... >_>
Not sure what elo you are but anything under low-mid plat is too busy banning stuff like Jax.
Justykanna
1,090 posts
Joined April 2011
Justykanna

Vulf wrote:

Not sure what elo you are but anything under low-mid plat is too busy banning stuff like Jax.
Currently mid-Silver.
Jax hasn't actually been banned a ton. Yasuo, Braum, Vi, Morgana and Maokai have been the common ones.
Eren Yaeger
122 posts
Joined September 2013
Eren Yaeger
I always ban against my team and sometimes one ban against the enemy, always hate seeing a Yasuo go 1/10 and still thinks he can 1v3
Navizel
2,982 posts
Joined April 2011
Navizel
How come I don't see any Maokai bans and I'm mid-Silver too.

I still see a lot of players ban Jax. The only time I ban him is when I don't feel like going top and I doubt the guy who called top doesn't know how to counter or play against him.
Eren Yaeger
122 posts
Joined September 2013
Eren Yaeger
They nerfed Jax's early game so it's really hard for him to get going now which is why he isn't ban priority, Maokai on the other hand has 20% AoE DMG reduction that applies to his team and himself, a knockback, a root and a very large amount of self healing, all while having %HP dmg and scouting with his saplings.
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
That's exactly my point?

In lower elo's people are too busy banning stuff like Jax because the higher elo/pro play stuff hasn't trickled down there yet. I don't get why Maokai is banned or even picked much top because you can outpick that so easily. It was already demonstrated in competitive play. I have yet to lose a game against a Maokai top.
BrokenArrow
2,237 posts
Joined June 2010
BrokenArrow
Zzzzz it sucks so hard to wait such a long time to see this CLG vs. CRS game and this is how the series starts.. and judging from the loser's faces after the game (don't want to spoiler) they're not gonna pull a win out today
Fml why do I even spend all my weekend nights watching this ):

Never will I ditch my friends to watch LCS again, afk
Navizel
2,982 posts
Joined April 2011
Navizel
yeah, should've gone with my family instead of watching LCS. Yesterday's LCS is so much better than today's.
Justykanna
1,090 posts
Joined April 2011
Justykanna

Vulf wrote:

That's exactly my point?

In lower elo's people are too busy banning stuff like Jax because the higher elo/pro play stuff hasn't trickled down there yet. I don't get why Maokai is banned or even picked much top because you can outpick that so easily. It was already demonstrated in competitive play. I have yet to lose a game against a Maokai top.
I'd rather see other champions banned than Maokai - he's not really one I'd personally ban.
BrokenArrow
2,237 posts
Joined June 2010
BrokenArrow
Maokai's ulti is useless in lower elo because people never group anyways
GeeNX
1,081 posts
Joined June 2012
GeeNX
It is good even if it's just for you
Eren Yaeger
122 posts
Joined September 2013
Eren Yaeger
I always ban Yasuo, Morg, and Trist, they either feed horribly if they are on your team, or be the next faker/LiftLift on the enemy team
Fabi
1,130 posts
Joined September 2009
Fabi
Wow, Amazong making the moves.

https://twitter.com/Twitch/status/503996320349057024
Cyclohexane
osu! Alumni
4,568 posts
Joined May 2009
Cyclohexane

the golden brown build with the golden brown skin for the golden brown cards of stuneroni
Love
osu! Alumni
1,267 posts
Joined August 2010
Love

Mr Color wrote:


the golden brown build with the golden brown skin for the golden brown cards of stuneroni
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends. ... 2/40684034
Navizel
2,982 posts
Joined April 2011
Navizel
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/champi ... -the-sands

so fast
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
Yeah that sounds extremely unfun to play against.

I really wish Riot would stop making new champions. =\
So many of the older champions left in the dust for so long I feel they don't even care anymore. It's all about money and e$ports now.
BrokenArrow
2,237 posts
Joined June 2010
BrokenArrow

Vulf wrote:

Yeah that sounds extremely unfun to play against.

I really wish Riot would stop making new champions. =\
So many of the older champions left in the dust for so long I feel they don't even care anymore. It's all about money and e$ports now.
Pun intended? :D
Navizel
2,982 posts
Joined April 2011
Navizel
I only want Riot to nerf the op champions a little and add a huge buff to the champions who are never played in the LCS. The way Riot nerfs champions who are played in the LCS is they are nerfing them to the ground.
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
A lot of the stuff that has been bad for years needs a rework because any straight buffs would make them broken overpowered. Poppy for example.

I would rather them just focus on reworking than making any new champions at all and any new champions currently in development should be put on hold/shelved until then. Season 4 was supposed to be the season of large scale relaunches.

Almost all the reworks that have happened this year were due to certain champions being retarded in LCS. Besides none of the reworks were even close to relaunch worthy except for maybe Xerath.

We will be lucky to see the Sion relaunch this year and that will be it. Warwick's relaunch got pushed back into 2015 due to limited art resources.
Ibuki Suika
1,254 posts
Joined March 2010
Ibuki Suika
has someone attention SKT vs SSW？
Sapphiire_old_1
1,301 posts
Joined July 2013
Sapphiire_old_1


New client bugged yeay >:(
Katze
379 posts
Joined November 2011
Katze

SoG Tava wrote:



New client bugged yeay >:(
I can't even open it lol, the Mac-Client is fantastic!!!!!!! 8-)
BrokenArrow
2,237 posts
Joined June 2010
BrokenArrow
just get a Windows pc, Mac is trash in general
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,425 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

BrokenArrow wrote:

just get a Windows pc, Mac is trash in general
Won't be possible because reasons.
Katze
379 posts
Joined November 2011
Katze

BrokenArrow wrote:

just get a Windows pc, Mac is trash in general
It really is trash, but I've had it for over 4 years now and its perfect for working (+school), just not for playing.
I'm thinking about saving up for a good PC soon. So, if anyone runs League on a Macbook here, I have the solution (sounds dumb but):
Apparently you have to download the newest Softwareupgrade for your Mac, and then it should run again. As you may know,
the first Softwareupgrade costs nothing BUT, you still have to enter a Creditcardnumber! Unless you buy a iTunes-Card like I did now.
So, just stick with Windows you guys, it makes everything much easier 8-)
Nofool
Elite Mapper
1,108 posts
Joined February 2011
Nofool

Ibuki Suika wrote:

has someone attention SKT vs SSW？
rip SKT :( (0/3)
Daesung-ah
Daesung-ah
faker rip in pepperonis #cut4faker #faker4worlds BELIEVE
AutoMedic
1,166 posts
Joined April 2014
AutoMedic

SoG Tava wrote:



New client bugged yeay >:(
that's terrible holy crap
Justykanna
1,090 posts
Joined April 2011
Justykanna

Vulf wrote:

I would rather them just focus on reworking than making any new champions at all and any new champions currently in development should be put on hold/shelved until then. Season 4 was supposed to be the season of large scale relaunches.
I await Gangplank's rework. =(
Ibuki Suika
1,254 posts
Joined March 2010
Ibuki Suika

Nofool wrote:

Ibuki Suika wrote:

has someone attention SKT vs SSW？
rip SKT :( (0/3)
their still has the last chance in 8.30
but the opportunity is still little :| (their opponents maybe is KTA
tyrael6192
706 posts
Joined October 2010
tyrael6192


WE CAN DO IT BOYS
Nofool
Elite Mapper
1,108 posts
Joined February 2011
Nofool

tyrael6192 wrote:



WE CAN DO IT BOYS
man u still got piglet instead of faker in you sig ;_; (i remember that gragas ult tho)
Navizel
2,982 posts
Joined April 2011
Navizel
W E L O S T B O Y S
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
S N I P E R I N O B O Y S
BrokenArrow
2,237 posts
Joined June 2010
BrokenArrow
Yay <3



Now I just need the Allstar Akali skin and I got 'em all, SOMEONE MAKE IT HAPPEN
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf


That challenger Fiddlesticks main in a normal. xD
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,547 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
Anyone here plays on Garena LoL? :(
I got no one else to play with other than my sister
DaddyCoolVipper
342 posts
Joined July 2012
DaddyCoolVipper

Vulf wrote:

challenger Fiddlesticks








Love
osu! Alumni
1,267 posts
Joined August 2010
Love


I hate 5v5 premades, idk why. But at least I can tell them what to do.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends. ... 3/40684034
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,547 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
Decided to try the team builder mode things and I get a leaver from the start :\
Was all alone at bottom
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura
lmao what's wrong with Azir ? As time goes by I find every single new champ getting more complex mechanics and potentially overdone effects. Who ever said Jax has got too many effects from his helimode can go and smash his head over Azir's W.
This passive too... When someone told me 'bout it I thought it was his ult.
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
Overloaded kits have been present since beta. Look at Kayle for example, though she has been reworked and had a ton of stuff removed from her kit over time since then so she isn't that bad anymore.

Problem is it's super prevalent now to the point they have to spend several months after that champions release to balance it (Yasuo) which is retarded seeing how many champions need help at this point.. Sad truth is they aren't going to make much money off new champions if they are designed more like Vel'Koz even though kits like that are much more healthier for the game.
Eren Yaeger
122 posts
Joined September 2013
Eren Yaeger
Can I board the scoreboard hype train?

BrokenArrow
2,237 posts
Joined June 2010
BrokenArrow
Does anyone wanna have my CLG icon? At this rate I should just become a TSM fan.
Vulf
17 posts
Joined November 2009
Vulf
CLG just has bad management. I don't think any amount of roster changing will fix that.
Adol Christin
875 posts
Joined October 2012
Adol Christin
Hiya, here is a LOL EUW player, whose ID is the same as his OSU! ID.

Now I am focus on playing Annie in ranked game. She is strong as hell in mid game.
Nofool
Elite Mapper
1,108 posts
Joined February 2011
Nofool
noooooooo rip SKT... ffs i wanted that blindpick game
Navizel
2,982 posts
Joined April 2011
Navizel
rip in peace im crying
Eren Yaeger
122 posts
Joined September 2013
Eren Yaeger
The curse is still going, world's winners from last year never make it to worlds the next year :(
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura
I'm finally out of Silver. Funny thing is that I kinda felt proud when I was Silver and got matchmade with golds, hut now that I'm in Gold I somehow feel... dunno, something like ashamed though it's not as strong as that lol.
Nofool
Elite Mapper
1,108 posts
Joined February 2011
Nofool

Eren Yaeger wrote:

The curse is still going, world's winners from last year never make it to worlds the next year :(
isokay TPAs coming back this time (i hope :c)



LMQ vs TSM blindpick match hype !_!
BrokenArrow
2,237 posts
Joined June 2010
BrokenArrow
I thought blindpick is only in OGN? D:
Nofool
Elite Mapper
1,108 posts
Joined February 2011
Nofool

BrokenArrow wrote:

I thought blindpick is only in OGN? D:
yeah i think i noticed like 5 minutes after writing...... you'r right, im still cryin' then
i also hope all the TSM fans cry this game
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