I think that ppv2 should take object density and patterns (squares, stars and triangles for example) in account.
I believe under 8 and over 10 give bonuses. I may be wrong, try checking the wiki to see if it says anything.Rewben2 wrote:
I don't know if this has been answered by Tom but does AR affect pp? I believe I've seen it asked but I haven't seen an answer.
Oh shit there is, probably should have checked there first. It isn't specific about what AR's are beneficial but it is included.Mathsma wrote:
I believe under 8 and over 10 give bonuses. I may be wrong, try checking the wiki to see if it says anything.Rewben2 wrote:
I don't know if this has been answered by Tom but does AR affect pp? I believe I've seen it asked but I haven't seen an answer.
Emperor's visual reaction time is 180ms average. That's great, but it's not abnormal at all. When I started osu!, my reaction time was around 230ms, but now it's dropped to around 190ms, so I know that reaction time is trainable. He also doesn't sightread AR11, either, he takes a little time to memorize the map. Basically, although it's partially determined by the person, I'm pretty sure half of people with solid aim can master AR11 in the way Emperor has. Emperor's real skill probably comes from the combination of his focus and some really fast memory recall ability, similar to loli_milk back in the day, who was able to play AR11 and full combo flashlight songs in little time.Tess wrote:
If it focused on mental skills, FL would give much more pp, but since mental skills are a lot easier to acquire than physical ones (reading/focus as opposed to streaming/jumping) they're not valued as much. AR11 should be an exception here since it requires quite extreme reflexes to be played properly. The only person I know of who can consistently play with AR11 (and do some sightread HDDTHR plays too) is Emperor, which goes to show that that AR does require a specific skill that not anyone can simply obtain.
heheTess wrote:
... mental skills are a lot easier to acquire than physical ones (reading/focus as opposed to streaming/jumping) ...
Reading AR11 correctly without memorizing the map & followpoints is impossible. I'll tell you why: AR10 - 450ms. 450ms x 1.5 (DT) = 300ms.Tess wrote:
I never said it was impossible, I said it was very hard. Something that not just anyone can do - some people can, yes, but most won't ever be able to play AR11 like Emperor can. Also, by "sightread" I didn't mean "Sightread FC", I mean playing a map for the first time with AR11 and passing.
Yes, thanks for repeating what I said.Bubble wrote:
Reading AR11 correctly without memorizing the map & followpoints is impossible. I'll tell you why: AR10 - 450ms. 450ms x 1.5 (DT) = 300ms.Tess wrote:
I never said it was impossible, I said it was very hard. Something that not just anyone can do - some people can, yes, but most won't ever be able to play AR11 like Emperor can. Also, by "sightread" I didn't mean "Sightread FC", I mean playing a map for the first time with AR11 and passing.
Do you really think that your brain can react fast enough to 300ms by moving your hand and doing the pressing motion with the other one? No, memory has to take a part there, means that no one can FC an AR11 map at their first try.
I'm probably biased since I play easies and normals, but on maps likeGoldenWolf wrote:
Why? Hidden doesn't change anything accuracy-wise, while it makes it harder to aim...
When the ar is low enough, hidden can make jumps really hard, since the note dissapears for a longer time than with higher approach rates. You have to remember the places of notes way more often at lower approach rates which makes both the aiming aspect harder and the ability to read hidden on lower approach rates. Lower ar is way more hard with the hidden mod on then without it. I do agree that the overlapping notes and stacks get harder with hidden, this should be looked at too imo.Riince wrote:
Why does it give bonus to aim?. Jumps are by no means more difficult with hidden, yet jumps are what require aim to complete. Overlapping and stacks and the like that DO get harder with hidden, are not exactly heavy on the aim requirement. I guess tom just couldn't think of anywhere else to put hidden since it doesnt really change anything, aim included, but just felt he had to give it something.
That wouldn't work because HD gives a bonus to aim, not overall PP.Woobowiz wrote:
Aside from the current topic posted, has this also been considered to remedy HD/FL plays that are worth less pp?
Going from 99% acc no mod to 97% HD mod makes it worth considerably less pp for a (subjectively) more impressive performance.
If I may propose 2 different solutions.
1. Slightly decrease the pp bonus to HD, THEN apply the pp bonus to the SS value then add it onto your actual % acc score.
( SS-pp * HD % Bonus ) + ( pp from your play; no bonus)
This may occur in a bit of a pp inflation and people may be satisfied with the pp they get from HD
2. Use the current pp bonus of HD (or slightly lower it again) to calculate the pp difference between No-HD SS and a lower accuracy HD S-rank of equal pp value
First find the HD S-rank accuracy which is equal to a No-HD SS in terms of pp, let that be equal to a variable X
Then the pp calculated is : ( SS-pp - X% Acc S-rank pp ) + ( pp from your play; no bonus)
The issue with this is that the bonus might be TOO big for HR or DT runs.
IMO Hidden does make the map slightly harder to read (slightly), there are maps where the difference barely matters (basic patterns, consistent spacing, hit every 1/2 beat, no stacks/overlaps/streams, AR9-10...) and maps where Hidden plays in a lot (complex jumps/patterns, weird spacing, complex timing, stacks/overlaps/streams, low AR). Point being, the difficulty in hidden comes with reading the map--it's just a bit harder to notice all of the notes and to be able to time when to hit them correctly than on nomod. It is a slight difficulty increase, but it's still there, with the added effect of having to figure out how to time everything without approach circles, or keep track of where everything is.Riince wrote:
hidden is basically a playstyle choice, it's barely even a mod. it's analogous to hidden or flashlight in mania which mania players have agreed do not make the map harder but just changes the way it plays to fit their preferences. ideally it wouldn't give bonus pp at all but standard is understandably different than mania and there are times when hidden makes things harder.
Which brings me to my next paragraph.
Why does it give bonus to aim?. Jumps are by no means more difficult with hidden, yet jumps are what require aim to complete. Overlapping and stacks and the like that DO get harder with hidden, are not exactly heavy on the aim requirement. I guess tom just couldn't think of anywhere else to put hidden since it doesnt really change anything, aim included, but just felt he had to give it something.
Oh please, Combo Bursts on adds more difficulty than Hidden, wheres my PP for that?Drezi wrote:
Learning to read HD on certain ARs develops a permanent skill that can be applied to other maps aswell (unlike FL) and this skill should be rewarded to some extent imo. I agree about FL though.
Drezi wrote:
I don't see all your Hidden FC-s. Don't you want the free PP if Hidden being on or off is so non-relevant to you that you almost think it could be reduced to an option?
don't you think I'd play DT more if I wanted 'free PP'?Drezi wrote:
Don't you want the free PP
Why are you trying to dodge the main point here? What Drezi is getting at is that if HD is as easy as you make it seem, then why aren't your nomod fcs with HD?Riince wrote:
don't you think I'd play DT more if I wanted 'free PP'?Drezi wrote:
Don't you want the free PP
Play caren_sk's Nyan Nyan Drive map nomods (AR10 or AR9, doesn't matter)Riince wrote:
it's probably balanced but really why aim specifically?
i've already made my point: i don't like it. why don't i play with combo bursts? same reason.- [ U z z I ] - wrote:
Why are you trying to dodge the main point here? What Drezi is getting at is that if HD is as easy as you make it seem, then why aren't your nomod fcs with HD?
Thanks for reading my post.Riince wrote:
I guess they're just afraid that I might be right?
http://puu.sh/b89ci.pngTess wrote:
Play caren_sk's Nyan Nyan Drive map nomods (AR10 or AR9, doesn't matter)
Now play it with Hidden.
There's your answer.
WTF YOU ARENT DEAD?pielak wrote:
http://puu.sh/b89ci.pngTess wrote:
Play caren_sk's Nyan Nyan Drive map nomods (AR10 or AR9, doesn't matter)
Now play it with Hidden.
There's your answer.
http://puu.sh/b89dH.png
neither felt harder than the other but one will give 20~ more points for fc
edit: oops you probably can't see my hd icon
http://puu.sh/b89Ah.png
http://puu.sh/b89Cl.png
Once you're adept at something it won't feel hard, just like I doubt playing a 5 star insane with HR will feel siginificantly harder to you, if at all, than playing it nomod. (I know the difficulty difference is not the same, it's just an example of the principle)pielak wrote:
neither felt harder than the other but one will give 20~ more points for fc
edit: oops you probably can't see my hd icon
http://puu.sh/b89Ah.png
http://puu.sh/b89Cl.png
wrong on all accountsDrezi wrote:
Riince you're just obnoxious claiming something is easy when you can't do it all. But you don't even realize it. It's getting annoying that you just pop up everywhere stating your opinion just for the sake of doing it, without being informed on the subject much at all.