Thank you for assuming I'm stupid. I know how to recognize a hard converted, but it's hard/too risky to let an algorithm make the difference.
This, flashlight may be an challenge to the player but shouldn't influence in the ladder at all, people are just abusing of it to raise pp.OnosakiHito wrote:
Flashlight
Should be disabled or give no points. Too often there was a problem with this mod.
Most people do not play it and it has been often abused (HD+FL+HR). That's my opinion.
Wat.OnosakiHito wrote:
Currently the ranking is better than before I would say. It seems that taiko specific difficulties give a higher amount of pp than converted osu-taiko maps, which is good.
So again, for someone who doesn't alternate, this pattern can become hard. Those who do, they feel totally okay with it. Monotonically streams are a bigger problem since you have to keep the hit frequency and can't swap to another finger. I'm an "alternater" and I never had a problem with these patterns. Neither do others of my "kind".Loctav wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/169371 the monotony of this patterns makes your hand complain. I assure you.
If FL is disabled or gives no points, this problem will no longer be existent.Luna wrote:
1) SV - Extremely high/low SV is hard to read, but should probably only give a small bonus since DSing is a thing and not provable =/
I wrote in my post that the algorithm should take into account clusters of high density notes, like in forgotten: 250 1/8 streams, if it thinks that's an easy stream than that algorithm...Nashmun wrote:
Thank you for assuming I'm stupid. I know how to recognize a hard converted, but it's hard/too risky to let an algorithm make the difference.
The problem isn't considering a hard converted hard, but an easy-mid converted not hard. Because the settings will obviously gives EVERY converted map a boost, plus they generally have high density so once again boost. What's the big deal with disabling it ? Because chipscape would not count anymore ? That's really a big deal...EBAWER123 wrote:
I wrote in my post that the algorithm should take into account clusters of high density notes, like in forgotten: 250 1/8 streams, if it thinks that's an easy stream than that algorithm...Nashmun wrote:
Thank you for assuming I'm stupid. I know how to recognize a hard converted, but it's hard/too risky to let an algorithm make the difference.
First of all converts have less notes than taiko-specific map on the same song, for example Wind God Girl has 2367/1424 notes, etc... And assuming we take a map without a taiko diff and make an Oni there, well, 99% chance it will have more?Nashmun wrote:
Because the settings will obviously gives EVERY converted map a boost, plus they generally have high density so once again boost.
EDIT : Moreover the maps your are linking now are just stupid maps full of spam, so it's even better not including them in the ranking anyway
My comments are in blue, Loctav.Loctav wrote:
Every pattern that is a combination of xxy/xyy patterns is easier to play than patterns of a xyx/xxx combination. (whereas x is color 1 and y is color 2) (kddkddkddk is easy. ddkkddkkddkk is easy. ddk is easy. dk kd is easy. kd kd is harder. kdkdkkkd is harder. kdk is harder. dddk is harder than ddk I don't agree with the dk kd/kd kd case when we're hitting higher BPM. I have a hard time FCing Sakura Sunrise on DT due to dk kd, but if it were dk dk I'd easily do it.
Moreover, HD and HR are equal, DT increases OD massively. HD players are having more problems on lower BPMs (due to low scrolling speed), whereas HR players are having more problems with higher BPM (due to HR causing a too fast scrolling speed). DT doesnt change scrollspeed based on SV but on BPM, but it decreases the hitwindow massively. HD+HR is impossible to read. FL+HD is memorization (you wont see ANY note at all), FL+HR is also memorization, but objectively easier (since you can at least see the notes, even if its just a short while).
Basically I see it like (vision based mods. HD/HR/FL only affect vision): (HD = HR) < HD+HR < FL < FL+HR < FL+HD < FL+HD+HR
DT is an extra factor, increasing OD and BPM and therefore should be calculated into the difficulty where note density calculations happen.
HR affects OD as well. Else, well you'd see many more HRDT scores on average BPM songs (that is 110-140 bpm range no more)
HRHD is not impossible to read, it's very tough and playable at a very limited range !
FL+HD+anything is "memorization", FL+HR is also memorization (except when BPM gets abusively low) as you have a ridiculous reading timespan.
I agree with you here.capeseverywhere wrote:
So, one thing I have to say about the taiko vs. converted argument.
If this is going to be a proper difficulty rating system, it shouldn't weight certain taiko maps based on whether they are converted or not, but on how difficult they are. Put your stance of taiko vs. converted away, because we are trying to sort them as whole, not two separate things. Whether it's full of 1/8 spam like https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=107875&m=1 , or complex patterns like most taiko maps, it's still gotta weigh as if it's still one mode which it is.
This.Tasha wrote:
I'm in agreement with not including converted maps or weighing them FAR less than taiko specific maps.
They are still readable (4:3) just like how 16:9 is. At least for me though. HRHD is much easier to manage than pure memorization just like HDFL, but you shouldn't say FL should be nerfed, since the hugest enemy FL players usually face is accuracy than the patterns itself, (also remember there's no OD change at all, and to be honest I am always amazed at people who can HRHDFL a map with over 97% accuracy) I still find HD easier than HR, maybe it's because I'm more used to HD. I have something on DT, where as long as the BPM is over <inserts BPM here, 140 for me>, extra pp should be given. I can't stand slow maps, anything below 140BPM, and I'd rather use DT with them, even with a lesser accuracy. And as for my standpoint,Nashmun wrote:
I do not agree with your comment on HDHR @Gezo, it's only readable if you play with a widescreen resolution.
DT < HR = HD < FLAs for coverted taiko vs. taiko only maps, I'd say give converted maps way lesser weights than taiko only maps. As skills increase, you can purely hit for taiko-only maps for pp instead of ranking on converted maps, as they are way easier to get ranks with. You can even get to the Top 50 even with a C rank.
I like what Tom94 says here.Tom94 wrote:
Converted vs. Taiko-specific
I plan to weight converted maps just as much as Taiko-specific maps and present you all with a list of beatmaps together with their respective difficulty. If it ends up working well I don't see a reason to exclude converted maps. If it won't work they won't be included (or by a small margin).
dddkkkddkkdkdkkkkdddkkdddkkkkkdkdkdkdddkdkdkkkdkdk = ddd kkk ddkk dkd kkkk ddd kk ddd kkkkk dkdkdk ddd kdkd kkk dkdkYou can't just say that streams are nothing more than a combination of these patterns and only marginally harder than the added value of all of them.
I play full alternate and I encourage all other players to learn full alt so you won't get any problems with hand switching. While patterns are a difficulty based on a person playing and his style, it is still not that much of a factor compared to SV(Speed of your eyes), OD(Precision of your tapping), BPM(Speed of your hands), Length of a pattern(Your stamina), Length of a song(Your stamina) and mods which increase or decrease the difficulty.Luna wrote:
Addressing the post above:dddkkkddkkdkdkkkkdddkkdddkkkkkdkdkdkdddkdkdkkkdkdk = ddd kkk ddkk dkd kkkk ddd kk ddd kkkkk dkdkdk ddd kdkd kkk dkdkYou can't just say that streams are nothing more than a combination of these patterns and only marginally harder than the added value of all of them.
If you split it this way, you need to keep in mind that hand switches occurr. Assuming you start the stream on your right hand, that equates to:
That's a LOT more complicated than you make it sound.
Yes but no, each player has it own way of dividing them. I differentiate them in a totally different manner than you and EBAWER. But I do agree with both of you that patterns shouldn't be taken in consideration for long stream, because one pattern that seems easy for a players is hard for another and vice versa.OnosakiHito wrote:
Hm. I have to agree with EBAWER123 post. I never thought in this way. That's interesting.
Luna, he is right I think. For example: ddd kkk d is nothing else than dddkkkd. You play it in the same way. Just with the difference, having a gap between a pattern.
Example:
ddkkdkddkd ≈ dd kk dkd dkd
kdkkdkkdk ≈ kdk kdk kdk
ddkkddkdk ≈ ddk kdd kdk
When alternaiting, you play it in the same way. One pattern just has a gap or not, that's the difference. And I think he is right with his opinion, that there shouldn't be a value for certain patterns. That was one of our biggest problems before, but in the way he mentioned it, this problem would be solved. Especially because the BPM would define what is harder or not(E.g.: BPM 240 ddddkkkkd > BPM 150 dk kd dk kd d (?)).
@WemadeFOX-solo: See it as proto-typ. It will change later for sure.