Uuughhh... the stuff that you just said was... just weird. Like, I'm not even going to say your response was that scummy in particular, but goddamn, I feel as if I'm obliged to reply.

Royston wrote:

Kitsunemimi wrote:

Anyone could've went in saying "oh hurr yeah I think he's scum too"

Sure, but if someone decided to hammer so early in the day then it's a safe bet they're not town; unless the player lynched is scum, of course.

Some of the players in this game have innately shakey reasoning, even if they might turn out to be town, such as BRBP and Tanz (though we don't know if Tanz is scum or not). It's because of this that I really simply don't trust them to not hammer, even if they may be town. In other words, the person to throw down the hammer is ambiguous.

Royston wrote:

Kitsunemimi wrote:

and it turns out that everyone's completely wrong because you put on too many votes on RB before he could even say anything.

I'm not clear on what you mean by this.

Stating a hypothetical situation where RB flipped town from a quickhammer where there wasn't enough evidence. Which would be incredibly stupid, especially given my above point which states that the person who hammers isn't guaranteed to be scum.

Royston wrote:

Kitsunemimi wrote:

Also, are you saying you're okay with risking a mislynch while we're already 3 down?

Yes, if we get scum. I'd much prefer a mislynch over no lynch, at least we gain info that way. We're already in a bad spot, we can't afford to play it safe.

I don't know about you, but I don't think I would be that okay with a mislynch at this stage. I would be okay if we lynched scum, and only scum. You even said it yourself, we're in a pretty bad situation right now, but then suddenly your reasoning falls apart and you say we can't afford to play it safe? I'm not even sure if that makes sense? Usually when you're in situations where you can't really mess up, that's when you try to play safely, so you make it out okay...?
The only thing I can see as what you were trying to say is "we don't really have the option to play it safe anymore", which I wouldn't really consider to be the case, as that would be LyLo.

Tanzklaue wrote:

Royston wrote:

(You say that like we're aware of who's town and who's not.) (kitsune)
Hah, well some of us are.

slip one.

He's implying the mafia knows.
He's not implying that he is mafia. (would be too obvious for me to consider as scumslip)
He could be implying that he is Mason.

Kitsunemimi wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

slip one.

He's implying the mafia knows.
He's not implying that he is mafia. (would be too obvious for me to consider as scumslip)
He could be implying that he is Mason.

the point of a slip is that it's unintentional.

I also don't think that it's a strong enough slip to vote, but it still is quite interesting.

@royston: who do you think is scum and why?

@Tanz: when I read that it looked like a funny way to say that only the Mafia knows who's Town, not really a slip.

I'm just unsure whether his vote on RB was because he's newbie Town or newbie scum. Also @Royston: why unvoting?

Raging Bull wrote:

My internet sucks too.

No, you did no such thing of mentioning Kanye lynch is better than Tanz. You mentioned how you rather lynch than no lynch.

You had approx 6 hours from the time you mentioned no lynch is bad and when you voted NL and within that time, BRBP, Tanz, Rantai, and I were online. That is plenty of opportunity.

No, there was only one town dead in D1 and that was NH. What are you even saying?

Why are you contradicting yourself a lot now?

I might not have mentioned it explicitly but the implication was more than obvious.

Out of the 6 hours, 4 of that was lectures and about an hour was in transit to get home. I can't come up with scum hunting on the fly like that without it being utterly terrible.

I'm not talking about D1. I'm talking about right now.

The hell was anything contradicting? Also, you need to make your next post completely wisely because I've breadcrumbed a lot of things that you should have picked up and realised by now. There was one part especially for you RB but to be honest, I think you're going to waste it.

Tanzklaue wrote:

Kitsunemimi wrote:

He's implying the mafia knows.
He's not implying that he is mafia. (would be too obvious for me to consider as scumslip)
He could be implying that he is Mason.

the point of a slip is that it's unintentional.

I also don't think that it's a strong enough slip to vote, but it still is quite interesting.

@royston: who do you think is scum and why?

Um yeah, I'm implying the mafia knows. Unless there's something weird like a traitor going on, but I doubt it.

As for who I think is scum and why, the back and forth hasn't really done much to change my mind; I still think you're probably scum, for the reasons stated in my previous posts.

Kanye is also a possible scumspect of mine because of his inactivity. Of course, if he happens to be town then that makes him an attractive voting target for scum who can simply say "well, he was lurking, how was I to know?"

Some of the players in this game have innately shakey reasoning, even if they might turn out to be town, such as BRBP and Tanz (though we don't know if Tanz is scum or not). It's because of this that I really simply don't trust them to not hammer, even if they may be town.

Sure, fair enough.

Raging Bull wrote:

I find it funny how you pop out of nowhere and just jumped on my bandwagon without any justified reasoning for the vote.

Correct, I didn't have any reasoning. Frankly I still have a null read on you, the vote was a reaction test simply for pressure.

Tanzklaue wrote:

slip 2. there was no reason to assume that there would be a no lynch today.

What? I don't understand. My interpretation of what you said is "town would have no reason to assume a no lynch, but you did, hence you're mafia" ? But why would mafia assume a no lynch? If that's not what you meant, I apologize.

Lilac wrote:

I might not have mentioned it explicitly but the implication was more than obvious.

Out of the 6 hours, 4 of that was lectures and about an hour was in transit to get home. I can't come up with scum hunting on the fly like that without it being utterly terrible.

I'm not talking about D1. I'm talking about right now.

The hell was anything contradicting? Also, you need to make your next post completely wisely because I've breadcrumbed a lot of things that you should have picked up and realised by now. There was one part especially for you RB but to be honest, I think you're going to waste it.

The implication was vague. You just wanted a lynch, you probably didn't even care who it was. The implication was just that. You just wanted a lynch.

No, your sentence was talking about D1. On D2, you did not scumhunt anyone at all. You just went for me. D1 was the day when you scumhunt Tanz, Mimi, BRBP. On D2, 3 town died. See the contradiction?

I cannot read breadcrumb (more because of my inability to do so),but I assume it's about me since something did happen to me last night.

Can we just lynch Kanye already

Posted: 2 days ago

Christ. Prod: Kanye West for the third fucking time

Is there a "3 Prods and you're out" rule

There should be a rule like that

Honestly though, I'm not entirely confident of lynching Kanye. I don't remember playing a game where he was scum, so I don't have firsthand experience of how much he lurks when scum, and I really don't like relying on meta due to its assumptions and how easy it is to trick it, as Rantai pointed out D1.
___________________________________________________

On the other hand, Royston's reasons are starting to look scummy to me. He basically admitted that he put RB on L-1 for "pressure" (which as I've said, is a weak reason) while not actually thinking he's scum.

Royston wrote:

Frankly I still have a null read on you, the vote was a reaction test simply for pressure.

I'm personally up for lynching scummy people than inactives who are assumed to be scummy due to only meta, so Vote: Royston

Also it's not just the inactivity from Kanye. He basically does anything but IIoA, didn't even mention/gave any explanations why he's inactive, didn't question why he's being suspected so much. I know he's inactive, but still - he has some posts and none of them mention any of the arguments I listed here.

Just come on... isn't this pooting obvious?

Jinxy wrote:

Posted: 2 days ago

Christ. Prod: Kanye West for the third fucking time

Is there a "3 Prods and you're out" rule

There should be a rule like that

there is. if you get prodded 3 times, you technically get auto replaced.

not sure though if it will be enforced here.


I also find royston decently fishy. his reasoning of how he would prefer misslynching over NL when there is no indicator for NL at all is out of place, and his openly admitted acceptance of risking to lynch someone he doesn't even have a nullread is downright scummy. you should never take a relative sure misslynch over potential scumlynches.

@RB: what happened to you this night?

I'd rather lynch someone that's heavily experienced in the game and acts scummy as fuck than someone who plays the game first time and makes a potential slip. He might not admit that, but I think voting RB in such advanced way was just a newbie slip. Not seeing it is scummy.

@Jinxy since you're voting me, who do you think the remaining scum are?

Tanzklaue wrote:

I also find royston decently fishy. his reasoning of how he would prefer misslynching over NL when there is no indicator for NL at all is out of place, and his openly admitted acceptance of risking to lynch someone he doesn't even have a nullread is downright scummy. you should never take a relative sure misslynch over potential scumlynches.

What's the difference between a 'relative sure misslynch' and a 'potential scumlynch'? Either someone's scum, or they're not. What makes you say RB's a relative sure misslynch, anyway?

fratownik wrote:

He might not admit that, but I think voting RB in such advanced way was just a newbie slip.

Yeah, it may have been a poor decision on my part. But the fact that RB didn't get quickhammered shows something, at least.

Royston wrote:

@Jinxy since you're voting me, who do you think the remaining scum are?

Remaining scum, you say? Interesting choice of words there.

To humor you, I still have my doubts on fart because of his tunneling and attacks on me D1 (which I still have the opinion that his reasons were ridiculous). Just noticed that he seems to be helping you provide excuses for your L-1 vote, too.

fartownik wrote:

He might not admit that, but I think voting RB in such advanced way was just a newbie slip. Not seeing it is scummy.

Another thing I don't like is the "newbie" argument, which also works on unfounded assumptions. iirc, NH or someone pulled that argument in some other forum and steamrolled that game because the other players fell for it.

Next in my list would be either Lilac or RB, which I covered 2 posts ago. Their actions pre-N1 are still reading weirdly to me, but it's just a faint suspicion, compared to you and fart.

Royston wrote:

Yeah, it may have been a poor decision on my part. But the fact that RB didn't get quickhammered shows something, at least.

Explain, what kind of "something"?

@tanz, I rather not say until Lilac says. (Or if he is nice enough to quote the post with breadcrumb and I will look from there.)

That last sentence shows you've at least somewhat understand now and I hope we don't have to continue this discussion further, RB.

Unvote. Waking up now.

Last sentence as in the post one before your message to Tanz.

Vote: Kanye.

I just can't... Even if he does answer his prod, anything he says will be so weak for me because he's not even doing anything. His last post was 3 days ago and his only serious vote was Tanz.

If we think scum is inactive, usually now is a good time to lynch because too late and it's all over.

Tanz...

Are you going to do anything like...productive? For example, give a reason.

Or do I have to recall my 5 years of German to slap your face with?

I'm sorry, it's hot as shit over here and I didn't feel like giving much of a reasoning.

my reasoning basically didn't change too much from day 1. still high inactivity, paired with almost no content when he actually posts.

Kanye West wrote:

BMin can have my spot if he wants. I'm lazy to play mafia while hosting anyway

I had to read over this topic and stumble across this, said before he got his role. It's not enough to make me take my vote off him but damn, it's making me reconsider.

pieguy wrote:

Please, don't join if you won't be able to be active > <

Alright, I don't feel as bad now.

votecount 2.3:

Kanye West (3) - fartownik, Lilac, Tanzklaue (L - 2)
Tanzklaue (1) - BRBP

deadline is in 28:05

I voted Royston and we asked Kanye to be prodded

oh Kanye has requested replacement sorry I forgot to put that in the other post
also, oops, my miss > <

votecount 2.3:

Kanye West (3) - fartownik, Lilac, Tanzklaue (L - 2)
Tanzklaue (1) - BRBP
Royston (1) - Jinxy

deadline is in 27:54

Alright, here we go again. Going though everything again to see if I can pick up anything new. ._. (gaahhh so many posts)

I read through Tanz' longass argument with Sakura in ISO, and, while I originally got scum vibes from his responses, now that I'm reading it, it sort of makes him look town. The reason is, his wording seems to be very town-oriented. He seems to express genuine uncertainty as to whether some people are town or not, but also fully acknowledges that he thought Sakura was town (until the argument started to get stupid). To be honest, I don't think we can make any conclusions from Tanz's posts once the argument got heated; I'm thinking he was getting frustrated that Sakura was tunnelling him for so long, so he's town for now.

Something I noticed about fart's targeting is that he seems to always suddenly find someone to focus on, and then after a short exchange, he'd let them off and be like "well okay, your reasoning seems town so it's fiiiiine". Which is normal, but he pretty much did that for everyone he suspected. However, he did mention something that explains his actions pretty well:

fartownik wrote:

I don't like 1on1 discussions like this because they usually turn out being a Town vs Town fights

Still could be possibly scummy, trying to make debates/look like he's scumhunting without looking like he just want to get someone lynched? We'll see.

Oh, also, I wanted to ask you what this was about:

fartownik wrote:

And if there's a Doctor - you possibly ruined the game for Town.

Royston's recent posts have been making me feel more and more like he's scum. Like... rrgh I don't really know how to explain myself actually. By now, with the exception of Kanye, Royston is far behind in postcount from everyone else. His posts seem to be lacking in content as well. I don't know if he's just playing this game half-assedly, or perhaps he's mafia, and his inexperience is making it hard for him to come up with anything. Though, imo if it's your first game, you'd probably try to make a decent effort right? Because it helps you learn better. Jinxy also brings up a good point on him

Jinxy wrote:

He basically admitted that he put RB on L-1 for "pressure" (which as I've said, is a weak reason) while not actually thinking he's scum.

fart proposes that it could be a newbie error... But even if that's so, he could still be mafia and it would still count as a noob error: his vote made himself suspicious without him realizing it. Also,

Royston wrote:

fartownik wrote:

He might not admit that, but I think voting RB in such advanced way was just a newbie slip.

Yeah, it may have been a poor decision on my part. But the fact that RB didn't get quickhammered shows something, at least.

I don't want to pick on Royston just because he's new, but he literally used this as a free escape from his error.

As for Kanye, his posts tell me that he's experienced enough to be able to play this game proficiently, yet he's not doing it for some sort of other reason. I don't know if we can just call him scum for just not posting, though I also don't know if he's actually just like this. (i was about to write stuff here about how it might be ok actually and not matter to him if he gets lynched but....)
Welcome DakeDekaane~ I hope we can all have fun while there are three votes piled on top of you.

One last thing, I noticed that after the case on BRBP was settled, he almost completely stopped posting. As of this post, he hasn't said anything for nearly 2 days...

......
Oh my god, dammit this post is so long already. Just.... Basically, those are the people who I feel like mentioning most at the moment. I'll look at everyone else probably tomorrow, since this post is so freaking long already and it's getting late too. I doubt I'll have that much to say though. I also get the feeling that I've made numerous errors in this post but you'll just have to bear with me ._.

Hi guys o/
I'll be reading the whole thread.
@Mod: an extension could be very nice.
I'm going to sleep soon >.<

BRBP wrote:

Royston wrote:

Yeah, it may have been a poor decision on my part. But the fact that RB didn't get quickhammered shows something, at least.

I don't think it shows anything, actually...

Jinxy wrote:

Explain, what kind of "something"?

Yeah ok it doesn't show anything. It was 1AM when I posted that sorry

Kitsunemimi wrote:

Something I noticed about fart's targeting is that he seems to always suddenly find someone to focus on, and then after a short exchange, he'd let them off and be like "well okay, your reasoning seems town so it's fiiiiine". Which is normal, but he pretty much did that for everyone he suspected. However, he did mention something that explains his actions pretty well:

fartownik wrote:

I don't like 1on1 discussions like this because they usually turn out being a Town vs Town fights

Still could be possibly scummy, trying to make debates/look like he's scumhunting without looking like he just want to get someone lynched? We'll see.

I've done plenty of reaction tests to establish my reads. If I expected such reaction from the player then I mark him as Town (for now), because it's more likely he's Town than scum by this reaction, and if we can't really base on the lynches/kills this is the way to play the game.

Kitsunemimi wrote:

Oh, also, I wanted to ask you what this was about:

fartownik wrote:

And if there's a Doctor - you possibly ruined the game for Town.

The Doctor didn't protect Sakura - Sakura died. The most powerful role in the game died because the Doctor misread her/done something totally random. Congrats.

Doctor in the game would be rather game breaking since Sakura will just keep reviving everyone till D4.

That's why my sentence said "IF there's a Doctor". Either there's no one or a not very smart one (or scum one, lol).

What if there was a strongman or a SK who decided to target the same person? Do mafia strongman kills count as separate kills from the regular mafia night kill?

If there really is a doc, I don't think they'd be dumb enough to not protect Sakura lol.

Don't wanna be a douche or anything, but Dake - please read the thread asap. We're only waiting for you here.

Ok, I'm done.

Let's take a look at the larger wagons atm.
In D1:

Votecount wrote:

BRBP (5) - Lilac, Jinxy, Raging Bull, Tanzklaue, Kitsunemimi (L-2)

This was before pieguy confirmed BRBP's action. Due to confusion was quite easy to scum lynch him at this rate, smart scum would had finished the day and let the town quite lost, but the fact is that there were at least 2 scum voting there, as BRBP didn't get hammered. +1 Scumpoints to everyone here.

Votecount wrote:

No lynch (6) - Sakura, Kitsunemimi, Rantai, Lilac, Tanzklaue, Raging Bull

Though Kitsunemimi bringed up the NL idea and still doubting if it would be a good idea, scum took advantage from a confirmed town (Sakura) starting the wagon and some other townies, (Rantai) to join here. +1 Scumpoints for Lilac and Kitsunemimi and +2 for Tanz and RB, why? Because they were practically sheeping.

In D2:

Votecount wrote:

Raging Bull (4) - fartownik, Tanzklaue, Royston, Lilac (L-1)

Nice catch for the NL wagon by farto. +1 Townpoints. Royston reasons was quite silly as scum would let a townie hammer and then incriminating him, in case RB is town, but he has a bit of reason when he states:

Royston wrote:

But the fact that RB didn't get quickhammered shows something, at least.

Votecount wrote:

Kanye West (3) - fartownik, Lilac, Tanzklaue (L - 2)

fart and Tanz fishing in inactive pool, really? It's true Kanye's behaviour was like this in DotA, but also was similar in High School (though he posted a bit more) and was town there, so judging by meta is not always the way to go.

It seems that Lilac and Tanz likes wagons, but I'm reading Lilac as town due heavy scumhunting, yes, jumping between people in D1, but with fundaments, contrary to Tanz that always tried to deflect the attention to someone else and jumping around a lot between the large bandwagons, even voted BRBP who was 99% confirmed town in that moment (he's still almost confirmed, that 1%), and voting people due inactivity. So:

Vote: Tanzklaue

If you think RB doesn't want me lynched then vote him, or it's that you don't want him lynched? Adding that Gunsmith doesn't confirm you as town, as scum Gunsmith would still scan for Cop, Vig and PGO.

I'm going more with Tanz now, we can also have Roasted Beef if you want, as he's the next in my list. And Royston in a small amount due sheeping Lilac on unvoting RB, but due the newbie factor I can't get if it's a confused townie or shy scum.

Also you said something about a SK, I don't deny the possibility, as there's the case that Kitsunemimi brings bad luck visiting other people instead getting visited. But I know you won't even like the idea of try to check it as scum would screw the with the possible plans, but these are only ideas of mine, so don't mind too much in this for now (unless we have another death due bad luck).

funny how the three guys who suspect me the most are the same three guys from day 1. still don't have really any good reasoning, but I didn't expect much tbh.

BRBP wrote:

Kitsunemimi wrote:

One last thing, I noticed that after the case on BRBP was settled, he almost completely stopped posting. As of this post, he hasn't said anything for nearly 2 days...

I'm less active on weekends. Why didn't you prod me then?

your weeks seem to consist only of weekends then. you had like 5 posts after the issue settled sown. and 4 of them were fluff or otherwise unhelpful.

[qoute="BRBP"]

Tanzklaue wrote:

Royston wrote:

Hah, well some of us are.

slip one

Jinxy wrote:

Royston wrote:

@Jinxy since you're voting me, who do you think the remaining scum are?

Remaining scum, you say? Interesting choice of words there.

You two... Stop.
That's ridiculous.[/quote]
I agree, scumhunting seems pretty ridiculous.

BRBP wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

the point of a slip is that it's unintentional.
I also don't think that it's a strong enough slip to vote, but it still is quite interesting.

No, it's not intresting in any way. You bothering to point something like that out and calling it a slip on the other hand is quite interesting.
Or maybe not, it's your job to lynch townies :/

you get quite aggressive there. where are your reasons for that?

BRBP wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

I'm sorry, it's hot as shit over here and I didn't feel like giving much of a reasoning.

What the fuck?

you as a finn might not understand, but outside of the cold north, you actually have things like 35 °C days in summer with 25 °C nights, humid as fuck aswell. I couldn't be bothered to write a long explanation if it's not incredibly necessary.

BRBP wrote:

I guess you're taking your votes off Dake now? After all your primary reason to vote Kanye was because of his inactivity and lack of content in posts (Tanz), maybe Dake can fix that. Kanye wasn't active on his own game either, makes it easier to believe he really was busy. Let's see what you can come up with~

you seem so confident in me being scum, and your accusations are quite ridiculous tbh. you shouldn't forget that you aren't a confirmed townie, and that you actually need a foundation yourself in order to proof your townieness. passive aggressive accusations won't help you one bit.

ROUND 2!

DakeDekaane wrote:

In D1:

Votecount wrote:

BRBP (5) - Lilac, Jinxy, Raging Bull, Tanzklaue, Kitsunemimi (L-2)

This was before pieguy confirmed BRBP's action. Due to confusion was quite easy to scum lynch him at this rate, smart scum would had finished the day and let the town quite lost, but the fact is that there were at least 2 scum voting there, as BRBP didn't get hammered. +1 Scumpoints to everyone here.

no scum would be so dumb and reveal 2 of their members. the fact that he didn't got quickhammered says next to nothing about the wagonmembers.
[qoute="DakeDekaane"]

Votecount wrote:

No lynch (6) - Sakura, Kitsunemimi, Rantai, Lilac, Tanzklaue, Raging Bull

Though Kitsunemimi bringed up the NL idea and still doubting if it would be a good idea, scum took advantage from a confirmed town (Sakura) starting the wagon and some other townies, (Rantai) to join here. +1 Scumpoints for Lilac and Kitsunemimi and +2 for Tanz and RB, why? Because they were practically sheeping.[/quote]
it actually says nothing about the scummyness of a person if he votes NL in order to not get lynched themselves. "I will let you guys lynch me so you can read my wagon after my death!" said noone ever. if you're town, you won't let yourself get killed except if it isn't avoidable or at the cost of people you think are town aswell. and as scum... well scum would never want to die. it's actually another nullread reasoning.

DakeDekaane wrote:

In D2:

Votecount wrote:

Raging Bull (4) - fartownik, Tanzklaue, Royston, Lilac (L-1)

Nice catch for the NL wagon by farto. +1 Townpoints. Royston reasons was quite silly as scum would let a townie hammer and then incriminating him, in case RB is town, but he has a bit of reason when he states:

Royston wrote:

But the fact that RB didn't get quickhammered shows something, at least.

again, scum wouldn't show themselves, at least not this early. a quickhammer would only really occur if a) scum gets voted and the player at L-1 votes himself or b) if you are at LYLO or MyLo and scum would instawin. yet another fallacious argument, they add up by now.

DakeDekaane wrote:

If you think RB doesn't want me lynched then vote him, or it's that you don't want him lynched? Adding that Gunsmith doesn't confirm you as town, as scum Gunsmith would still scan for Cop, Vig and PGO.

scum gunsmith is about as likely as scum dayvig. and like ten times more useless.
also, if I were a scum gunsmith, why would I claim something like gunsmith? wouldn't it be smarter to claim something that is harder to control? I also got roleblocked this night, so someone must've thought that I am dangerous to them. hint: it was most likely not a townie.

DakeDekaane wrote:

And Royston in a small amount due sheeping Lilac on unvoting RB, but due the newbie factor I can't get if it's a confused townie or shy scum.

we already established that the newbie factor shouldn't count too heavily. we can't risk getting demolished by a guy who just plays pretend with us.

DakeDekaane wrote:

Also you said something about a SK, I don't deny the possibility, as there's the case that Kitsunemimi brings bad luck visiting other people instead getting visited. But I know you won't even like the idea of try to check it as scum would screw the with the possible plans, but these are only ideas of mine, so don't mind too much in this for now (unless we have another death due bad luck).

kitsune wouldn't have claimed PGO if he were a SK. because the following victims won't be as easily explained with "oh someone seemed to aim at me again".

overall, dake seems to try to analyze, but I am not really convinced with his reasonings. my vote will stay on him for now.