Unbeatable logic orz.
Tanz for mvp.
-- Actually no. I knew there were more players but he's making excuses.
Tanz for mvp.
-- Actually no. I knew there were more players but he's making excuses.
forum
Touhou PyP IV (Game over - Mafia wins :>)
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1,106
So are you.
Mmm?
Mmm?
Touche.
Though mine is an explanation in order to alleviate misunderstandings~
Though mine is an explanation in order to alleviate misunderstandings~
Unvote
Vote: Lilac
she tries to foment us, rantai, obv scum.
Vote: Lilac
she tries to foment us, rantai, obv scum.
Cunning.
It must be the shades.
It must be the shades.
Possible jealousy vote...? Heh, no matter.
So eager guys.
Confoim
[vote]Raging Bully[/vote]
yay MS tags that are unexistant here
[vote]Raging Bully[/vote]
yay MS tags that are unexistant here
Confirming~
So it's Touhou Clue now huh?~ :3
So it's Touhou Clue now huh?~ :3
Topic Starter
seems 11/12 is enough let's go
After Remi left, everyone just stared at each other. Something wasn't as it seemed...it was bad enough that Flan had apparently died, but everyone could sense something else was off. They just decided to not worry about it now and argue over who the killer could have been.
it is D1, the deadline is 7/30 09:00 GMT. it's slightly less than 96 hours but better to have it move faster and be more active imo
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch
After Remi left, everyone just stared at each other. Something wasn't as it seemed...it was bad enough that Flan had apparently died, but everyone could sense something else was off. They just decided to not worry about it now and argue over who the killer could have been.
it is D1, the deadline is 7/30 09:00 GMT. it's slightly less than 96 hours but better to have it move faster and be more active imo
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Vote: NoHitter
Vote: NH
Sheep fartownik to victory!
Sheep fartownik to victory!
Unvote
Vote: Sakura
SHEEP PLS
Vote: Sakura
SHEEP PLS
vote: Sakura
Sheep fartownik to v- oh wait
Sheep fartownik to v- oh wait
Vote: Kanye
obv scum is obv
obv scum is obv
Hi, just woke up.
Vote: NoHitter
Vote: NoHitter
Hi guys.
Two's method again? It worked last time
Two's method again? It worked last time
Ok, i'm a secret bulletproof unlynchable dayvig cop.
unvote
unvote
I'm fine with this.NoHitter wrote:
Hi guys.
Two's method again? It worked last time
yea yea fart, I have no doubt that you are fine with it 
if I learned anything from my games so far, then that massclaiming at day 1 is not a good idea.
if I learned anything from my games so far, then that massclaiming at day 1 is not a good idea.
EBWOP: This is different though. We have no idea how many VTs are there/if any at all. If everyone's a PR then it might turn out pretty ugly.
this is pyp, and also touhou. I think it's a safe bet that everyone is a PR
which btw. means that unless we outright scream our PRs out, it won't do anything
It didnt say it was role madness tho.
why would you give any touhou character a VT role?
also read OP. there it says that pieguy would choose matching abilities for every character, so unless someone wanted to be a plain boring human from the village, nobody will be a VT
What is wrong with being part of the human village
I guess we could confirm that by half-massclaiming. Everyone says if he's a PR a or not, without revealing the actual role.
EBWOP: But don't do that yet. Just a rough idea, need confirmation of this before actually doing it.
I don't really see the sense behind such action, though I don't see much harm in it either, since I am pretty convinced that everyone is a PR.
I didnt like that idea when NH did it on StD and i don't like it here either.
So here's some discussion.
I got a townread on fartownik, discuss!
I got a townread on fartownik, discuss!
null, he kinda wants to massclaim, but questions its usefullness.
I got a townread on him way before that
I got scumread on Sakura.
Also I just thrown the idea. I don't think it'd do much harm even if not everyone was a PR, it'd bring some information anyhow at least.
Also I just thrown the idea. I don't think it'd do much harm even if not everyone was a PR, it'd bring some information anyhow at least.
EBWOP: @Sakura: what's your base on your townread in me?
[quote="Tanz"00k1]null, he kinda wants to massclaim, but questions its usefullness.[/quote00k1]
How is he exactly questioning its usefulness? None of his posts show any doubt.
And Sakura, when you give out your reads, give your reasoning.
As of now, I have no reads on anyone yet. Game's still starting and I want to see everyone participate in the discussion before I give my reads.
Incidentally guys, for this setup, we need to massclaim both the character and the role. The abilities should correlate with the character through some way.
Then we have to set a time from X to Y for all the claims. (if only we could do the same as in IRC mafia for this...) The longer they take to claim, the more likely they may have to make fake claims. Then probably we can watch for any contradictions.
How is he exactly questioning its usefulness? None of his posts show any doubt.
And Sakura, when you give out your reads, give your reasoning.
As of now, I have no reads on anyone yet. Game's still starting and I want to see everyone participate in the discussion before I give my reads.
Incidentally guys, for this setup, we need to massclaim both the character and the role. The abilities should correlate with the character through some way.
Then we have to set a time from X to Y for all the claims. (if only we could do the same as in IRC mafia for this...) The longer they take to claim, the more likely they may have to make fake claims. Then probably we can watch for any contradictions.
I am aware of that, the point of the discussion is whether you can guess why i'm townreading farto.NoHitter wrote:
And Sakura, when you give out your reads, give your reasoning.
So you think scum are not PRs by this? Even if they claim the flavor + role they might be null reads because they might be PRs as well (and they probably are anyways).NoHitter wrote:
Incidentally guys, for this setup, we need to massclaim both the character and the role. The abilities should correlate with the character through some way.
NH: How is it beneficial to town to inform scum of any possible OP roles?
Please tell me and I will say if I think you're Town.Sakura wrote:
I am aware of that, the point of the discussion is whether you can guess why i'm townreading farto.NoHitter wrote:
And Sakura, when you give out your reads, give your reasoning.
Well that's a horrible point of discussion then.
It looks as if you're getting us to say why "farto is town" then you'd just say "correct" and sheep one of the reasons given even if that wasn't your original reason.
It looks as if you're getting us to say why "farto is town" then you'd just say "correct" and sheep one of the reasons given even if that wasn't your original reason.
Everything will come with time, i wanna hear everyone's thoughts on why i'm townreading you to see if everyone's seeing the same thing i'm seeing.
NH, fart said he wants to wait for more people to discuss, instead of directly forcing the massclaim out. for me, that is a questioning-ish action.
also, I won't claim.
also, I won't claim.
I'm conditioned now to always feel like a lightning stroke me down whenever someone wants to massclaim day 1.
I'm not NoHitter to claim in my first post already. I'm also not sure of all the pluses and minuses the action might give in the future, though I'm waiting for the opinions.Tanzklaue wrote:
NH, fart said he wants to wait for more people to discuss, instead of directly forcing the massclaim out. for me, that is a questioning-ish action.
also, I won't claim.
EBWOP:
More people posted in between-
@fartownik: Flavor and common sense
Unless the mod made safeclaims, you'd expect scum roles to exist outside of traditional "town" roles. Also if the flavor of the character they claim doesn't quite fit the description, then lynch. I'm sure we have enough flavor-expert people to verify this.
More people posted in between-
@fartownik: Flavor and common sense
Unless the mod made safeclaims, you'd expect scum roles to exist outside of traditional "town" roles. Also if the flavor of the character they claim doesn't quite fit the description, then lynch. I'm sure we have enough flavor-expert people to verify this.
It's the same reason as in Stacking the Deck. You may inform them yes, but in turn you also get information that will help town lynch them or plan ahead.Sakura wrote:
NH: How is it beneficial to town to inform scum of any possible OP roles?
I townread fartownik because of noticing the blatant sheeping I did, and I asked to discuss that so we got out of RVS fast and we can start hunting information, and I love how I already got some reactions from my point of discussion.
Leaning Town: fartownik, Tanz
Leaning Scum: NH.
Null: Everyone else.
And no massclaiming PRs is not a good idea to hunt information.
Leaning Town: fartownik, Tanz
Leaning Scum: NH.
Null: Everyone else.
And no massclaiming PRs is not a good idea to hunt information.
claiming only PR has no pluses nor minuses.
claiming the exact roles doesn't help town all that much, while scum can pick out the better townroles.
claiming the exact roles doesn't help town all that much, while scum can pick out the better townroles.
And didnt you say, there were no VTs?
there arn't. but killing for example a cop is better than killing a FBI agent (I struggled to find a really useless role lol)
There may be a cop yes, there also may be a doctor, who's the scum gonna shoot first?
doctor, since you can't shoot the cop if the doctor has a functioning brain.
So NH care to tell me why you think it would work, in the most likely scenario that we are all PRs?
Or did you want to claim everyone's abilities so you and your scumbuddies take out the most OP ones?
Or did you want to claim everyone's abilities so you and your scumbuddies take out the most OP ones?
I'm all for not claiming the exact roles in this game. This is different than Stack the Deck. The only thing we should do is to half-claim.
@Sakura: I don't see how anyone wouldn't notice you sheeping to me. Everyone noticed that and that doesn't mean everyone's Town.
@Sakura: I don't see how anyone wouldn't notice you sheeping to me. Everyone noticed that and that doesn't mean everyone's Town.
Yeah, but you thought i was scum for doing so.
I'm psure he just joked around.
Sakura wrote:
I am aware of that, the point of the discussion is whether you can guess why i'm townreading farto.NoHitter wrote:
And Sakura, when you give out your reads, give your reasoning.
Care to tell us why Tanz is leaning town, and I'm leaning scum?Sakura wrote:
I townread fartownik because of noticing the blatant sheeping I did, and I asked to discuss that so we got out of RVS fast and we can start hunting information, and I love how I already got some reactions from my point of discussion.
Leaning Town: fartownik, Tanz
Leaning Scum: NH.
Null: Everyone else.
And no massclaiming PRs is not a good idea to hunt information.
Nice scumpainting there.Sakura wrote:
So NH care to tell me why you think it would work, in the most likely scenario that we are all PRs?
Or did you want to claim everyone's abilities so you and your scumbuddies take out the most OP ones?
If we were all PR's then let me repeat what I told you:
1) Flavor - if a character's flavor does not match with his/her role, lynch
2) Setup - some roles will be deemed questionable if placed in a town sense: i.e. Roleblocker; also, some roles are technically hand in hand with each other: A Watcher will almost all the time be paired with a Tracker, etc. If any inconsistencies pop out, lynch
Tbh I'm pretty sure everyone is PR, this is Touhou after all.fartownik wrote:
I'm all for not claiming the exact roles in this game. This is different than Stack the Deck. The only thing we should do is to half-claim
In the first Touhou PyP, also hosted by pieguy, everyone was PR too.
Once again we're have the "PR roles saving us" VS "We lynch mafia based on info" debate.
@NH: Why do you think i'm scumpainting and not reaction testing?
@Tanz: You are gonna dismiss RVS as jokes?
@Tanz: You are gonna dismiss RVS as jokes?
@Sakura: Because you added "you and your scumbuddies". If you were really reaction testing, you would have just said I was "scum", but you took a step further than that.
RVS is, for the most part, joking and dicking around. sure, some people try to do mindgames and you occasionally have scum crossvoting each other or other shenanigans, and occasionally a new player totally flips out, but it's mostly not-so-useful information.Sakura wrote:
@NH: Why do you think i'm scumpainting and not reaction testing?
@Tanz: You are gonna dismiss RVS as jokes?
Not really, at the start of a game all info you have is your Role PM, and your Role PM is what will guide your actions towards getting info, dismissing RVS as a joke stage is detrimental to town, question and use everything, even RVS actions to find scum.
@NH: Yeah because if i'm using the term "You're scum" then you have a team of scumbuddies, I'm basically calling you out on scum and see how you'd react on that to either strengthen or weaken my scumread on you, so far it has gone nowhere.
@NH: Yeah because if i'm using the term "You're scum" then you have a team of scumbuddies, I'm basically calling you out on scum and see how you'd react on that to either strengthen or weaken my scumread on you, so far it has gone nowhere.
I'm not so sure if you can call it not-so-useful information, but I do agree that it looked like you guys were just joking...Tanzklaue wrote:
RVS is, for the most part, joking and dicking around. sure, some people try to do mindgames and you occasionally have scum crossvoting each other or other shenanigans, and occasionally a new player totally flips out, but it's mostly not-so-useful information.Sakura wrote:
@NH: Why do you think i'm scumpainting and not reaction testing?
@Tanz: You are gonna dismiss RVS as jokes?
Also, why does the action have to start as soon as I'm getting ready to leave for home...? ._.
I don't even know how many pages to expect to read through once I get home D:
@NoHitter: you base the success of your massclaim on the theory that Mafia PRs will differ from regular Town PRs. What if not? What if the PRs were picked randomly and we will end up being in the ass with all claimed PRs + flavors? Tbh this is quite possible and I wouldn't risk doing this right now.
I'm not sure if everyone has that kind of mindset at the start of the game. You may take it seriously, but a lot of people (myself included) don't take it seriously. That's why I usually opt for RQS or not starting with RVS at all.Sakura wrote:
Not really, at the start of a game all info you have is your Role PM, and your Role PM is what will guide your actions towards getting info, dismissing RVS as a joke stage is detrimental to town, question and use everything, even RVS actions to find scum.
Yes I know about reaction testing, but you did it in a way that you also scumpainted me. You didn't exactly call me out "I think NH is scum.". You instead subtly implied it by saying that I had "scumbuddies", thus scumpainted.Sakura wrote:
@NH: Yeah because if i'm using the term "You're scum" then you have a team of scumbuddies, I'm basically calling you out on scum and see how you'd react on that to either strengthen or weaken my scumread on you, so far it has gone nowhere.
I'm not convinced that Scum Doctors, and Scum Alignment Cops would exist.fartownik wrote:
@NoHitter: you base the success of your massclaim on the theory that Mafia PRs will differ from regular Town PRs. What if not? What if the PRs were picked randomly and we will end up being in the ass with all claimed PRs + flavors? Tbh this is quite possible and I wouldn't risk doing this right now.
Scum PRs are restricted to certain types that we can pinpoint them.
Not only this but,fartownik wrote:
@NoHitter: you base the success of your massclaim on the theory that Mafia PRs will differ from regular Town PRs. What if not? What if the PRs were picked randomly and we will end up being in the ass with all claimed PRs + flavors? Tbh this is quite possible and I wouldn't risk doing this right now.
Anyone who knows their toohoos really well can pick and fakeclaim a suitable Touhou character which hasn't been taken by anyone else, since there are so many of them. On top of this, not all of the Touhou characters fit with the mafia roles perfectly, yet can be paired with them anyways because we only offered 3 characters each to pieguy.NoHitter wrote:
If we were all PR's then let me repeat what I told you:
1) Flavor - if a character's flavor does not match with his/her role, lynch
Even if you say you don't take it seriously, in reality you are, psychologically you are really basing your choices and arguments off your own beliefs given by your role PM, as random as you want to be, you aren't going to be.
Besides, being random is detrimental to town anyway, as in actually using RNG to decide who to vote during RVS, but at least you gotta come up with a reason, and i have the right to question said reason, and see your reactions and judge your alignment based on it.
No matter how much you want to dismiss RVS as random, it never truly is, what RVS is is just a stage of not enough information, so we take steps towards getting said information.
You try to get information by getting massclaims, which will just be detrimental to town in the end, imagine we only have 1 OP town role, and is dead, what's next.
Besides, being random is detrimental to town anyway, as in actually using RNG to decide who to vote during RVS, but at least you gotta come up with a reason, and i have the right to question said reason, and see your reactions and judge your alignment based on it.
No matter how much you want to dismiss RVS as random, it never truly is, what RVS is is just a stage of not enough information, so we take steps towards getting said information.
You try to get information by getting massclaims, which will just be detrimental to town in the end, imagine we only have 1 OP town role, and is dead, what's next.
@Kitsunemimi
Precisely why I suggested we claim from a specific time X to Y. That way scum will have less time to fakeclaim.
@Sakura
Then we lynch the scum through the info we get? Honestly, this argument is just going around in circles.
If this was a mountainous setup, we would be doing the same thing: lynch scum based on the info.
Anyway, I really have to sleep now.
Precisely why I suggested we claim from a specific time X to Y. That way scum will have less time to fakeclaim.
@Sakura
Then we lynch the scum through the info we get? Honestly, this argument is just going around in circles.
If this was a mountainous setup, we would be doing the same thing: lynch scum based on the info.
Anyway, I really have to sleep now.
As I said, if they're good, they can do it faster than some people who have certain obligations, or are restricted to timezones.NoHitter wrote:
@Kitsunemimi
Precisely why I suggested we claim from a specific time X to Y. That way scum will have less time to fakeclaim.
I just don't think it's reliable enough to be worth revealing all our roles.
Better to do that, than massclaim to rely on PRs, if you want to massclaim to it at D2 at the earliest, when everyone will have to justify their night actions.
Topic Starter
Votecount 1.1:
Sakura (1) - fartownik
Kanye West (1) - Tanzklaue
NoHItter (1) - Kanye West
Sakura (1) - fartownik
Kanye West (1) - Tanzklaue
NoHItter (1) - Kanye West
Unvote: Kanye
or i guess just Unvote...
anyway, should lay down the RV now.
anyway, should lay down the RV now.
Are you townreading kanye now?
what, no
I didn't had any deeper thoughts behind my RV. I voted him because we are circle clicking buddies of some sorts.
really, you're reading to deep into this. I am null on kanye, and there is no reason to vote someone who is null at this stage of the game.
I didn't had any deeper thoughts behind my RV. I voted him because we are circle clicking buddies of some sorts.
really, you're reading to deep into this. I am null on kanye, and there is no reason to vote someone who is null at this stage of the game.
besides how should I townread anyone who only posted a RV himself and a "I just woke up" (or scumread, for a fact)
Then what do you plan on doing with your vote?, I never said you townread him, but if he's null, then why does unvoting him help you figure out his alignment?
it doesn't. how does a random vote sitting on him help me?
Pressure
I'm sure he had a very pressured day/night, and it didn't help much anyway.
Don't tell me you brought in his real life situation into this...
...Really? Also, I'm here to see Sakura talk. Mew.
...Really? Also, I'm here to see Sakura talk. Mew.
Damn, most people are actually going to sleep, I might have to change my schedule a bit to actually compensate for this.
australia too weak.
Kinda weird how you unvoted me if you still have a null read on me tbh.
And massclaiming is a very bad idea, even if we say whether we are a PR or not. It'll help scum more than town, as by this point, scum will probably have enough time to come up with a good fakeclaim (I'm pretty sure everyone here, or almost everyone, knows enough about Touhou characters to come up with a good fakeclaim anyways).
@Kitsunemimi keep in mind many roles can be town or mafia. Even if we MC, it may not even help town decide a lynch.
And massclaiming is a very bad idea, even if we say whether we are a PR or not. It'll help scum more than town, as by this point, scum will probably have enough time to come up with a good fakeclaim (I'm pretty sure everyone here, or almost everyone, knows enough about Touhou characters to come up with a good fakeclaim anyways).
@Kitsunemimi keep in mind many roles can be town or mafia. Even if we MC, it may not even help town decide a lynch.
Kanye gets town points for analysis.
Kanye West wrote:
@Kitsunemimi keep in mind many roles can be town or mafia. Even if we MC, it may not even help town decide a lynch.
You basically repeated what I said in my earlier posts actually.Kitsunemimi wrote:
I just don't think it's reliable enough to be worth revealing all our roles.
Unless you meant for that to be directed at NoHItter, in which case, yeah, exactly 
oh I was replying to this, pretty much just saying that even though a character may suggest a town alignment, it can be given a role that can be town or mafia.Kitsunemimi wrote:
On top of this, not all of the Touhou characters fit with the mafia roles perfectly, yet can be paired with them anyways because we only offered 3 characters each to pieguy.
Kanye gave a reason...
...You just kinda gave a...reliability issue... You know...?
...You just kinda gave a...reliability issue... You know...?
@Kanye: Oh, when I said "mafia", I meant the game as a whole, not the specific alignment >.<
And Lilac, a reliability issue IS a reason not to massclaim. Well at least that was what I was trying to point out.
And Lilac, a reliability issue IS a reason not to massclaim. Well at least that was what I was trying to point out.
also pieguy can get pretty creative, and many characters could be multiple things.
Woo hoo another double post (maybe)
Anyways, we agree on not mass claiming right? Because it can cause problems, and has "reliability issues".
The thing is, I've still barely played any mafia, so I don't know where exactly to go from here.
Anyways, we agree on not mass claiming right? Because it can cause problems, and has "reliability issues".
The thing is, I've still barely played any mafia, so I don't know where exactly to go from here.
Not on D1 no.Kitsunemimi wrote:
Anyways, we agree on not mass claiming right?
Woke up.
So don't wanna sound like broken record, but I don't think mass claiming would be beneficial at all, especially what Kanye said.
Although personally I'm rather suspicious on Sakura. Scumpainting NH, and townreading other people. it seems like she's just trying to get towncred early on in the game.
@Sakura, you haven't answered Nh's question. Why do you think he's scum and Tanz is town? What did you read to think they are scum/town? I'm actually reading NH more town than you are. His questioning on you and your reads without reasoning perhaps made you nervous a bit.
)
So don't wanna sound like broken record, but I don't think mass claiming would be beneficial at all, especially what Kanye said.
Although personally I'm rather suspicious on Sakura. Scumpainting NH, and townreading other people. it seems like she's just trying to get towncred early on in the game.
@Sakura, you haven't answered Nh's question. Why do you think he's scum and Tanz is town? What did you read to think they are scum/town? I'm actually reading NH more town than you are. His questioning on you and your reads without reasoning perhaps made you nervous a bit.
I mean truthfully, you blatantly said "sheeping to fart" who the hell cannot see it? (besides people who don't read the threadSakura wrote:
I townread fartownik because of noticing the blatant sheeping I did
)Sounds cool.Tanzklaue wrote:
I'm conditioned now to always feel like a lightning stroke me down whenever someone wants to massclaim day 1.
RB: have you ever heard of reaction tests?
I was not aware that ignoring a question is a reaction test.