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aim/placement feedback

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +0
Topic Starter
vantheman
Aim (or placement if you like that word better) is a measurable dimension of every hit and slider in standard mode that the game ignores. I enjoy this game because as it is, it allows me to practice several motor skills, with feedback better than any coach or teacher could ever give. Hits are just a little bit like drumming with one stick, and sliders are a little bit like inking a drawing(with a gigantic brush instead of a fine pen). I feel that feedback regarding a player's aim would add to the game's fun.

Implementation: It was suggested here as a mod of no scoring consequence. t/113594?hilit=aim

While I support that one, I'd like to suggest it be implemented as part of scoring. An example is, hits and sliders could be concentric circles of 50/100/300(like an archery target - the skinners of the community would have to work a bit to make it not be ugly). A slider would give you 300 if you stay in the 300 space over every tick, or less if you leave it for just one of them. As opposed to simply presenting two 300 marks, I suggest just having three different colors of 300(or 100 or 50).

This would make every hit and slider give a total of 600 and change the max scores of every map. Since my best guess is that a change on this level would cause tons of rage, leaving it inconsequential to score would be a better idea, for the function of short term community health. However, I feel that a scoring implementation would further the competitive aspect of the game(because it takes a second skill to get 100%). A gradual implementation for scoring(to avoid community rage) would be, have the 600 max for every object, but count the aim score separate for an extended time until the majority of active players have accumulated it, and then merge it(like pulling onto a highway).

A third suggestion is, as opposed to a mod, simply have it always on, but inconsequential, so that it could be measured in the broad context of overall player aim% as well. Does the #1 player hit closer to the center or do they miss? And how do I compare? A measured thing that some of us care about and others don't.

Self implementations that are currently available: Scaling down my tablet's active area (I have a 9x12) would make the targets smaller but would reduce jump distances. I'd lose the jump challenge aspect. Saving new difficulties with smaller circles still only gives me hit or miss and removes the competition. The competition has motivational value. Both I can think of have drawbacks.

The thread is titled aim/placement "feedback" and not "scoring" and that's really all I'm asking for, more automated feedback on my hand eye coordination. I do want a scoring implementation but changing the nature of a game that's 5 years running is too big a cost without sufficient transition. Whether as inconsequential feedback or a part of score, either would be improving on what exists. One may be a stepping point to the other over several years. I did not bump the old thread that I linked because I felt it was a slightly different topic if scoring implementation(whether to do it or not or how) was part of the discussion. As is the game is about measuring a player's rhythm, and a game about measuring rhythm and placement would be a different game, I think it's a good idea but many may disagree.
boat

vantheman wrote:

An example is, hits and sliders could be concentric circles of 50/100/300 e.t.c
That's overly complicated for said reason, playing with the smaller circlesizes will have the very same result.
Kaeru
I agree. While it's an interesting idea, one can simply play with smaller circle size to achieve the exact same results. The only difference is that reducing the circle size absolutely forces you to be accurate instead of allowing you to simply score less points if you aren't accurate enough.

HR already allows you to get rewarded for being more accurate, though it has other effects on the difficulty of the song too. It would be quite interesting to see a mod that only reduces the circle size, but cannot be used in combination with HR (maybe giving half the score multiplier that HR does).
Full Tablet

Kaeru wrote:

It would be quite interesting to see a mod that only reduces the circle size, but cannot be used in combination with HR (maybe giving half the score multiplier that HR does).
That would be nearly free 3% score bonus for almost all beatmaps in the game...
Topic Starter
vantheman

Kaeru wrote:

HR already allows you to get rewarded for being more accurate, though it has other effects on the difficulty of the song too. It would be quite interesting to see a mod that only reduces the circle size, but cannot be used in combination with HR (maybe giving half the score multiplier that HR does).
Yeah even that. It could drop circle size to 7. I wrote a long post explaining why I see a use for a drastic change, but I'm also in support of any babystep in that direction.

boat wrote:

vantheman wrote:

An example is, hits and sliders could be concentric circles of 50/100/300 e.t.c
That's overly complicated for said reason, playing with the smaller circlesizes will have the very same result.
Thank you for the observation, but not quite, there's a minimum size for the max score target if that's all you do, they can only be reduced to 7 and then played on HR. There should indeed be a minimum size, but if the game were going to grade your aim accuracy, then shouldn't it, on a high difficulty setting, have the top scoring area be even smaller than 7 on HR? It's the equivalent of timing being measured much more strictly when overall is turned up(maybe attach target size[derived from a percentage of circle size] to overall as a backward compatibility decision). Probably we'd still want it to be bigger than one pixel, but how small players and mappers want it to be, would be determined once people started caring and got competitive about their aim. My opinion is that the most competitive players would still get their 99.50% scores if it had a 3 pixel radius.

Also, the approach circle naturally points a player's eye to its center, so I don't think the overlap of a stream or the minor movements of a clickstack would be difficult once adapted to.
Oinari-sama
Personally I don't like any idea that emphasise visual queue at the expense of rhythm focus, so it's a no for me...
Topic Starter
vantheman
Let me ask you this then:
Why play Osu! standard mode at all, and not Taiko mode?
Oinari-sama

vantheman wrote:

Let me ask you this then:
Why play Osu! standard mode at all, and not Taiko mode?
How is that relevant?
Kaeru

Full Tablet wrote:

Kaeru wrote:

It would be quite interesting to see a mod that only reduces the circle size, but cannot be used in combination with HR (maybe giving half the score multiplier that HR does).
That would be nearly free 3% score bonus for almost all beatmaps in the game...
Well, HD is already a free 6% bonus for every beatmap..
Topic Starter
vantheman

Oinari-sama wrote:

How is that relevant?
Integration of vision is the foremost thing making the two different.
Oinari-sama

vantheman wrote:

Oinari-sama wrote:

How is that relevant?
Integration of vision is the foremost thing making the two different.
Well then you're saying that Taiko players might as well switch off their screen while they play.

Perhaps I didn't explain my view well enough in my initial post, so here's another attempt: I like the visual-audio balance in current osu standard mode, and I do not want to see it shift towards the visual side any more than where it stands now.

I did not expect to be questioned about my preferences in game mode just for expressing my view on this issue.
Topic Starter
vantheman

Oinari-sama wrote:

Perhaps I didn't explain my view well enough in my initial post, so here's another attempt: I like the visual-audio balance in current osu standard mode, and I do not want to see it shift towards the visual side any more than where it stands now.
Ah, very good then. I misunderstood before. Yes, this is why the subject line is only a request for feedback in general, because scoring is opinionated.
Oinari-sama

vantheman wrote:

Oinari-sama wrote:

Perhaps I didn't explain my view well enough in my initial post, so here's another attempt: I like the visual-audio balance in current osu standard mode, and I do not want to see it shift towards the visual side any more than where it stands now.
Ah, very good then. I misunderstood before. Yes, this is why the subject line is only a request for feedback in general, because scoring is opinionated.
It happens, no dramas.

If you leave the scoring part aside, the request t/113594 imo does a good job in terms of feedback on aim. Also, since it was proposed as a Mod so that the players have a choice of whether they want to use it or not, I actually think that it's a fun idea. I would use the mod every now and then to check how accurate my jump snapping is, but I would not want to have it on all the time.

Just to be frank, I think the other request (t/113594) will have more chance of being implemented than this one so if you want to add stars to a request, you're probably better off doing it in t/113594.
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