Try to think why I posted that link, it shouldn't be too hard to reason why.
:ODexus wrote:
Here we go again~
By the way we're allowed to discuss if this is viable or not still in this forum. Please calm down and think of the situation. You discussed a lot in the other thread, so why not show what your arguments stated?
Who said that?ImmortalChibi wrote:
That, or you think I'm trying to troll the Osu! community.
That is completely subjective. When I play with nofail I always try my best to hit the circles, because I use nofail only for practising parts I can't do without it.ImmortalChibi wrote:
Also, NoFail provides NO motivation for hitting any of the keys.
Yes, and it basically was: Play more. You can't have any idea of how the game is supposed to work with so little experience from it.ImmortalChibi wrote:
It's very, very possible that I missed a point or your have a very convincing counter argument of your own.
1. I play on hard difficulty as well. And we've all already been over the fact that the difficulty rating isn't 100% accurate because most beatmap makers are not perfect at it.GoldenWolf wrote:
Yes, and it basically was: Play more. You can't have any idea of how the game is supposed to work with so little experience from it.
Besides, if you're failing on Easy/Normal without any mods, then you clearly need to practice a lot more before suggesting any change/addition to the gameplay.
As Wishy said, on Easy/Normal we have literally the time to sneeze and scratch the nose before failing.
I think the game is easy enough. If you don't like the difficulty of this game then you have two options:
1. Quit the game.
2. Practice and get better at it.
There is really no need for such a new mod. No support.
HP Drain missing would not fuck the game up. My STRONG supporters of this are Guitar Hero, DDR, Rock Band, and many other rhythm based games where the loss of health is dependent on notes you hit.BlackStat wrote:
I don't see the point in turning off hp drain, it's how you lose in the game. I even think that missing beats just increases the hp drain by percentages and missing sliders the same. If you take out hp drain it will most likely fuck the game up.
If you don't like no-fail, turn on easy, or just plain get better.
Yes, this is true in some or most senses. Then it calls into question why there are any mods at all to make a song easier. The ONLY songs that should have any easier modifiers are 1/2 star songs. And then the only songs that should have increased difficulty are 5 star songs, since if you want to improve you simply go up a difficulty.eldnl wrote:
If you're not able to survive on a specific difficulty, you shouldn't play it unless you're trying to improve.
1. You're playing Hard at 100playcount? You're 1'000 years too early boy.ImmortalChibi wrote:
1. I play on hard difficulty as well. And we've all already been over the fact that the difficulty rating isn't 100% accurate because most beatmap makers are not perfect at it.
2. It's true that I could eventually become better through a very long series of failures. However, it's much more likely you'll get your way and have only people who are already good at this game play it. And your community will never expand, or expand at a snail's pace.
3. You literally don't have time to sneeze. You put up a video of you sneezing on easy/normal and passing it and I'll believe you. But you literally have two literal hands. Literally one can be playing Osu! while the other can literally address the literal task at your literal hand... I like the word literal.
I play mouse only, i can even drink while playing insane.GoldenWolf wrote:
3. Yes you do. And no I won't make any video of me doing that because I can't sneeze on-demand. I also can sneeze and still FCing (It means having Full Combo) Insanes. You can't do it because you're too new and not experienced enough.
Oh and also, I play tablet+keyboard so both my hands are busy playing and I don't have a third one to do anything else with.
Ah ah amazing, I can't do anything else while playing because I'm too focused, can't even chew anything :pMarcin wrote:
I play mouse only, i can even drink while playing insane.
No one is good from the start. Most people just deal with it and struggle their way up, or quit along the way. I've never seen anyone complaining about the HP drain this much before, and I've never met anyone who thinks of it as this much of an issue. Just play stuff on your level and move up from there, you have barely played the game; how about playing a bit more? Come back in a few months of actively playing and see if the HP drain is still an issue for you.ImmortalChibi wrote:
However, it's much more likely you'll get your way and have only people who are already good at this game play it. And your community will never expand, or expand at a snail's pace.
I wouldn't feel comfortable putting a vid of me playing Osu! on youtube just to justify this, I can literally take a sip of my drink in the middle of playing an easy/hard map and not have a problem with drain. I can vouch for GW.ImmortalChibi wrote:
3. You literally don't have time to sneeze. You put up a video of you sneezing on easy/normal and passing it and I'll believe you. But you literally have two literal hands. Literally one can be playing Osu! while the other can literally address the literal task at your literal hand... I like the word literal.
Removing Hp Drain actually would. Osu! has always had Hp Drain and always will. It's the core mechanic of the game and can not be touched. Osu! Isn't Guitar Hero, or DDR, or Rock Band, or any other rhythm game.ImmortalChibi wrote:
HP Drain missing would not fuck the game up. My STRONG supporters of this are Guitar Hero, DDR, Rock Band, and many other rhythm based games where the loss of health is dependent on notes you hit.BlackStat wrote:
I don't see the point in turning off hp drain, it's how you lose in the game. I even think that missing beats just increases the hp drain by percentages and missing sliders the same. If you take out hp drain it will most likely fuck the game up.
If you don't like no-fail, turn on easy, or just plain get better.
And this is part of an issue with me, and probably only a VERY small amount of others: turning on easy makes the game too slow. I hit the circles way to early because I have an itchy trigger finger. I like it to be fast, but I don't like the HP Drain being so incredulously strong that you simply CANNOT do a part if you had a bad start (not failing , just a rocky intro).
1. Yeah, it could be just me upset at a couple of songs. Does it make this idea any less valid for the greater community that may face the same thing? No.Marcin wrote:
Even though I've been following the other thread too, I can only see butthurt of not being able to keep up with a map here. Really, is it just me or something, but you're THE FIRST PERSON having the problem with it. And you're relatively fresh, no one knows you, this will probably get invalided in few days. Why are you even arguing? We all know that mechanics of game WON'T change, just because you can't keep up with some maps with high drain. Most of new maps are designed so you can miss few notes, and still play. There are several more feature requests, which request changes in core mechanics of game, and even they are more ignored than your thread, and trust me, they're more needed that this *in my opinion ofc.* stupid drain request.
I really can't see this happening.
I can understand that. But I didn't ask for it to change the overall game. A simple mod will do. And if you don't support this mod simply because you wouldn't use it... well would you be against gay marriage simply because you're not gay? (This example is terrible if you are actually against gay marriage, but I hope you get the idea).alxnr wrote:
It's weird to me if:
1. HP Bar isn't present when I'm playing for ranked score, and/or
2. HP Bar stays still if I don't miss/hit notes (in active/playing time). <-- I like the animation :p
(Not going to say what people have said in this thread or your other thread in G&R already)
No support for this one.
1. I am playing hard at 100 playcount. I can pass some of them, albeit with C's and D's. The ones I cannot pass are the ones that harbor this issue I'm trying to get resolved now.GoldenWolf wrote:
1. You're playing Hard at 100playcount? You're 1'000 years too early boy.
2. That's called talent. But unlike you seem to think, the only thing that matter in osu! is one word: Practice.
Also, why does it matter? It's better to have a small community and/or expanding it at snail's pace instead of having huge trash community like in your favourite MOBA game.
3. Yes you do. And no I won't make any video of me doing that because I can't sneeze on-demand. I also can sneeze and still FCing (It means having Full Combo) Insanes. You can't do it because you're too new and not experienced enough.
Oh and also, I play tablet+keyboard so both my hands are busy playing and I don't have a third one to do anything else with.
Marcin wrote:
I play mouse only, i can even drink while playing insane.
I can barely scratch my nose while trying to focus. Drinking and eating kinda draw my eyes from the screen and I'm like, "Well there that goes." Ha ha.GoldenWolf wrote:
Ah ah amazing, I can't do anything else while playing because I'm too focused, can't even chew anything :p
you should leave.ImmortalChibi wrote:
3. Pics or it didn't happen?
Yes, I can be a tad impatient. I don't want to badmouth the game or quit. But I don't want to have to struggle through two-thousand failures before I am able to pass a song either. What I am suggesting is a SIMPLE fix that you can choose to use or not to use. It harms nobody.koromo wrote:
No one is good from the start. Most people just deal with it and struggle their way up, or quit along the way. I've never seen anyone complaining about the HP drain this much before, and I've never met anyone who thinks of it as this much of an issue. Just play stuff on your level and move up from there, you have barely played the game; how about playing a bit more? Come back in a few months of actively playing and see if the HP drain is still an issue for you.
As for the community never expanding and such, you're just overreacting.
No support as I don't see much of a point for this.
That's you. I'm much more open about it. It's not like one of the 7 seven people watching is going to find me on the street and... do... I don't know. Something.BlackStat wrote:
I wouldn't feel comfortable putting a vid of me playing Osu! on youtube just to justify this, I can literally take a sip of my drink in the middle of playing an easy/hard map and not have a problem with drain. I can vouch for GW.
If this game literally revolves around HP Drain, it's got problems. It can change the drain. I do not understand how dropping the drain would suddenly make the game slip into the bowels of hell.BlackStat wrote:
Removing Hp Drain actually would. Osu! has always had Hp Drain and always will. It's the core mechanic of the game and can not be touched. Osu! Isn't Guitar Hero, or DDR, or Rock Band, or any other rhythm game.
Also if you like hard songs, you have to be willing to lose repeatedly if you can't get a combo going. If you can't keep getting notes right, then the Hp Drain will kill you, yeah, that's just how the game is.
I can see how you'd think that. My counter argument is that I said to compare it to Spunout, a mod that does a section FOR you. It will complete it and give you additional points often times. HP Drain would simply only make your life easier, so HP Drain actually is a lesser handicap. If Spunout is unranked, this mod should justly be unranked as well. But if you can have a part of your song done without you even needing to touch the wheel and still be ranked, why the hell should the health bar be unranked?alxnr wrote:
I know, but if you're playing for ranked score, every osu!'s element should present.
Since you didn't state whether the mod you request would be unranked/ranked, I assumed it's ranked.
I have glasses that are not kind to peripheral vision... also I'm basically blind.Raging Bull wrote:
I feel like you have tunnel vision
This isn't what osu! is looking for anyway. osu! has never tried to become a huge community, it is what it is now mainly by word of mouth. If we were that desperate to make osu! the new Stepmania or the new LoL, we would advertise it as much as possible (on Greenlight for example, without considering the copyright issues), but we don't because osu! is fine as it isImmortalChibi wrote:
And your community will never expand, or expand at a snail's pace.
Just because you're not looking for a huge community does not mean you need to inhibit your growth. If you were trying to keep a small community, I'm pretty sure it would be way harder to make an account and download the game.XPJ38 wrote:
This isn't what osu! is looking for anyway. osu! has never tried to become a huge community, it is what it is now mainly by word of mouth. If we were that desperate to make osu! the new Stepmania or the new LoL, we would advertise it as much as possible (on Greenlight for example, without considering the copyright issues), but we don't because osu! is fine as it is
Anyway, no support from me because I feel like HP drain is an essential and fun part of the game. Spunout is legit because many people have trouble with spinners (and believe it or not, spinners caused health issues to some people, me included –tendonitis), but yeah this is the first time I hear a complain for this.
(btw I apologize for this useless post of mine in the previous thread, I realized way too late that you were talking about HP drain and not the HP bar)
1. It just mean you don't have the level to play them.ImmortalChibi wrote:
1. I am playing hard at 100 playcount. I can pass some of them, albeit with C's and D's. The ones I cannot pass are the ones that harbor this issue I'm trying to get resolved now.
2. Practice is good an necessary, yes. Buuuut the best way to translate this into what I mean is: Imagine I put you in a room with a live, ticking bomb and told you to defuse it. You have no background training in anywhere near this field. Just you and a complex piece of equipment. You're MOST likely to trip the wrong wire and detonate yourself to all Shanghai. This metaphor works because you can only practice the song a little bit at a time before failing again. And at some point it ceases to become practice, and turns into remember the notes (which does not help in other songs).
A small community is not great for a game. A small community means: less active players, less feedback, less revenue, and bad publicity.
3. Pics or it didn't happen? I mean, you're the one claiming skill, so cough up the proof or stop barking. Even IF YOU COULD, there's no way you could do it on an insane song you've never played before. AKA: You just remember the notes in a song from playing it so much, you can hit the right note while not looking at the screen.
And I don't know how using a tablet would work. I bet it's much easier than a mouse.
Ha ha ha. I guess, if that's how you perceive it.BlackStat wrote:
To sum it up-
ImmortalChibi needs to get better at the game and realize how Osu! works first before whining about how hard it is.
Hp Drain should be left untouched
I need to grow a third arm
and ImmortalChibi is blind
I'm gonna go now and have fun playing Osu!
1. Right, I don't currently have the skill. How could I with such little game time? I'm not claiming to be insta-pro and this game is flawed. It's a small suggestion that I think could be very beneficial and not hurt anybody at all. I mean, if somebody is really upset that someone is playing a song without HP Drain, then they're one hella-egotistical bastard that probably looks down on everyone for using any of the easy mode mods.GoldenWolf wrote:
1. It just mean you don't have the level to play them.
2. This metaphor doesn't work because you won't die failing a song into a game.
3. Read BlackStat's post and their first reply to you. Also I can easily play any Insane you would give me without failing them at first, and maybe FCing first try, because I have a skill called: sightreading. But of course you can't know it exists because you have no experience from the game. And yes I could do that if the Insane isn't too hard (I have my limits too, I can't sneeze and play Freedom Dive at the same time).
>You don't know how it would work, yet you're betting it's easier.
That's making bad assumptions, and you'll probably (hell, even surely) look very stupid for saying so.
But I'll still answer you just because I'm that nice; No, a tablet is not any easier than a (good) mouse. Some patterns are even easier with mouse than tablet. It's just easier to find the right setting with tablet and also has that feature called Absolute Tracking that only a very few mices can reproduce (from what I've understood).
I read this in an exaggerated fashion like this: "I just installed osu! a few seconds ago and I can't pass Insanes. What the Hell? The game mechanics are broken. Must change."
You're failing to understand that you're totally new and noob to this game, that you have no idea about what you're talking about (changing mechanic gameplay) and also fail to understand that there is absolutely no need for this feature.
But I'm just too nice and I'll tell the most plausible way of the future of this feature; a lot of people will disagree with your idea, only a very few, even maybe no one will agree with your idea, and it'll just end up denied.
The only (smart) thing you could do right now, is just to play the game, get at least 10k playcount, come back in 10 months (1k per month isn't too much, right?) and then thinking about your idea. You'll most probably realized how stupid and how unnecessary it is.
But you'll probably just replying again without trying to understand what I'm telling you. With some bad arguments, of course.
And just because I'm so nice, I'll keep replying until you finally understand what I'm trying to tell you. (Only if you don't bring the same arguments back, of course.)
And no tl;dr, because I'm not THAT nice.
Unranked also keeps your play count from rising? I can see why they'd change SpunOut then. I think the HP Drain may have a little less reason to be ranked, because it blatantly makes you more survivable. SpunOut most of the time just keeps you at the same health.alxnr wrote:
FYI, SpunOut was unranked. But it was made ranked to prevent people from "practicing" maps without increasing their playcount.
I didn't say it should be unranked. >.>
Okay, you're right about the spinners with SpunOut mod, but the HP bar... well, perhaps it's weird to me because it's new.
You should explicitly state whether it's ranked or not, and if possible, propose the number of score modifier.
Understand that it isn't possible to create a mod for every single problem. Sure there are some people having problems with HP Drain but afaik their number isn't big. Sometimes, it is better to leave some users or functionalities behind to avoid the game being cluttered by non-essential mods, if you know what I mean. Especially with the main creator of the game, peppy, who hates non-essential toggles and options.ImmortalChibi wrote:
Ha. I don't understand. "Spunout is legit because many people have trouble with spinners" as if nobody has trouble with the HP Drain. I do, and just because I'm one of the few that speaks out about it does not make me the only one. As other users said, there HAVE been other complaints about this issue. I don't know what they said and I only want to use them to show I'm not the only one that has issues with drain. Their reasons are their own.
See, that concept about limited mods doesn't usually occur to me because I come from more games where the modifiers are only limited by how much memory you have on your computer. And some of the other mods are arguably non-essential as well. I mean, is there a difference between the Easy mod and Half-Time? Is it more than just Easy IS Half-Time plus like one other thing?XPJ38 wrote:
Understand that it isn't possible to create a mod for every single problem. Sure there are some people having problems with HP Drain but afaik their number isn't big. Sometimes, it is better to leave some users or functionalities behind to avoid the game being cluttered by non-essential mods, if you know what I mean. Especially with the main creator of the game, peppy, who hates non-essential toggles and options.
About Spunout: this mod has been created at the very beginning of osu! history because spinners in the Nintendo DS games were incredibly hard and exhausting. In osu!, spinners are less exhausting but can still cause issues to some people, whether they are newbies or hardcore old players. This is where Spunout is useful.
The HP drain could indeed be a problem for newbies like you but –and I say that by experience– it vanishes over time and practice, until a point where you don't care about it anymore and the only issues you could have with it are with badly-mapped maps. I can even go further and say that HP drain is somewhat a limit for newcomers to actually force them to become accurate and enjoy the game later.
You see, osu! is the kind of game where the more you play, the more you like it and find it challenging. You almost never really like from the start but only after you gained some skills and start passing/FCing Hard/Insane maps, and I am pretty sure that any mod won't change this. So let's not clutter the game and let's enjoy it as it is
1. Such maps wouldn't be ranked. If you hit all notes properly, there's no way you'd fail. Can you give some examples?ImmortalChibi wrote:
Reasons:
1. Slower songs that I like, or songs with slower sections, prove to be quite difficult when the health return from the beats is not enough to keep you alive despite hitting them all.
2. Often times beatmap makers incorrectly gauge the proper setting for HP Drain, thus making the song impossible or nearly so to complete.
3. A lot of the more common and big name rhythm games do amazingly well, despite not having this additional standard difficulty. So sources show, it would not ruin the game.
1. I don't think there will be a 'greater community' that will face the same thing.ImmortalChibi wrote:
1. Yeah, it could be just me upset at a couple of songs. Does it make this idea any less valid for the greater community that may face the same thing? No.
2. I'm the first person YOU'VE SEEN. If you really followed the other thread, you would take note of people saying this is a recurring idea.
3. We never know what will change unless we try it.
4. Those "some maps" I happen to really enjoy the song on and it's not like there are ample beatmaps with the same songs and I'll find the perfect one. The selection is limited.
1. You're supposed to go from easy -> normal -> hard -> insane. No normal human can S an insane map but can't even finish a normal map.ImmortalChibi wrote:
1. I am playing hard at 100 playcount. I can pass some of them, albeit with C's and D's. The ones I cannot pass are the ones that harbor this issue I'm trying to get resolved now.
2. Practice is good an necessary, yes. Buuuut the best way to translate this into what I mean is: Imagine I put you in a room with a live, ticking bomb and told you to defuse it. You have no background training in anywhere near this field. Just you and a complex piece of equipment. You're MOST likely to trip the wrong wire and detonate yourself to all Shanghai. This metaphor works because you can only practice the song a little bit at a time before failing again. And at some point it ceases to become practice, and turns into remember the notes (which does not help in other songs).
A small community is not great for a game. A small community means: less active players, less feedback, less revenue, and bad publicity.
3. Pics or it didn't happen? I mean, you're the one claiming skill, so cough up the proof or stop barking. Even IF YOU COULD, there's no way you could do it on an insane song you've never played before. AKA: You just remember the notes in a song from playing it so much, you can hit the right note while not looking at the screen.
And I don't know how using a tablet would work. I bet it's much easier than a mouse.
I have to say that you've got a point here. In fact you made me think about it for a while. Although unfortunately, it wouldn't be wise to switch to not using hp drain anymore. In a game, there are some features that you have to decide on which to implement, since you can't implement both. Adding this feature as a mod will be totally unnecessary since most players will never touch it since they could play totally fine with HP Drain, so there's no reason to use it as it will only reduce your score. This makes this mod totally unnecessary.ImmortalChibi wrote:
If this game literally revolves around HP Drain, it's got problems. It can change the drain. I do not understand how dropping the drain would suddenly make the game slip into the bowels of hell.
If you missed one beat every three beats, you have hit 75% of the beats and thus is a passing grade. Osu! completely shoots this down by making each one of those beats like missing three in a row instantly, therefore you lose when you've still landed a majority of the beats given.
I've said numerous times why NoFail is insufficient. PLEASE, for the love of anything you love, read any one of those posts.DakeDekaane wrote:
How about using NF and imagine the HP is always full, never drains. Not supporting.
osu! community grew, grows, and will keep growing because there's nothing wrong with having a passive HP drain, as many said, it's one of the core elements of the game, there's no point in your complains.
Okay, so then rank it. That problem solved.Marcin wrote:
Actually making this mode unranked, would allow people to practice things, without having to worry about score/accuracy/playcount. This mod won't change A THING in actual gameplay, so it would be used the same way as spunout was, rather than helping with problem, it'll be used by pro's to practice maps. AND THAT'S what are we trying to avoid
Just like XPJ said, we can't request every mod to make game easier just because we have a hard time clearing certain maps.XPJ38 wrote:
Understand that it isn't possible to create a mod for every single problem.
No. Half-time is, as its name suggests, the song played with half of its speed, while Easy is the song played at its normal speed but with huge hit circles and low approch rate. Easy is regularly discussed because it tends to increase the difficulty instead of lowering it but it's been here for so long it is impossible to remove it now. Plus, some people have made this mod their area of expertise (hi MillhioreF).ImmortalChibi wrote:
And some of the other mods are arguably non-essential as well. I mean, is there a difference between the Easy mod and Half-Time? Is it more than just Easy IS Half-Time plus like one other thing?
ImmortalChibi wrote:
I've said numerous times why NoFail is insufficient. PLEASE, for the love of anything you love, read any one of those posts.
Because a game is gaining popularity does not mean it's perfect. Name a SINGLE hit game (outside of Osu!, if you think it's perfect) where people did not have anything negative to say. I mean literally 10/10 across the board. If it had a review, baby that thing was perfect.
1. I still don't get how NoFail wouldn't solve your problem. Skin out the lifebar so you don't see your life draining out. The motivation you're talking about is pretty much just nonsense.ImmortalChibi wrote:
Okay, so then rank it. That problem solved.
"Oh, but you said in UH earlier post thaaat you said it wasn't good ranked because it gives you more surviva...surv... LIFES." Yeah, I said it. And honestly, I only said it because I felt like it would create an retard rage like the world never saw before. ACTUALLY, the SpunOut mod picks up your health, barely reduces your score, and gives you an easier jump to the next segment of a song. It's using a bot to CHEAT. That mod is LITERALLY cheating and you let it rank. That... is... awesome.
I'm sorry to say it but that's very subjective.ImmortalChibi wrote:
3. NoFail is NOT a fix to this issue of HP Drain. Passively falling HP is still present in NoFail. Also, NoFail provides NO motivation for hitting any of the keys.