Passive HP Drain that is always present can present a problem to some of the newer players or some of the slower songs. I wish to recommend a modifier to fix this, one not dissimilar to "Spunout" (automatically completed spin cycles). It's a part of the song that can be somewhat troublesome and ruin the experience of a song or cause unneeded stress.

To get a few things clear:
1. I do NOT want HP Drain removed from the game entirely. I realize it adds another difficulty and sense of accomplishment and that is fantastic.
2. I do NOT want a mod to add HP Drain (vice versa of my proposal). HP Drain is a core element to the history of Osu! and it's predecessors, and the basis of the game shouldn't be altered.
3. NoFail is NOT a fix to this issue of HP Drain. Passively falling HP is still present in NoFail. Also, NoFail provides NO motivation for hitting any of the keys.
4. This mod, like other easy mode mods, would come at the cost of a score minimizer.

This proposal, I'm sure, has been suggested a million times. This is my turn to hope I explain it well enough to influence it's induction to the game.

Reasons:
1. Slower songs that I like, or songs with slower sections, prove to be quite difficult when the health return from the beats is not enough to keep you alive despite hitting them all.
2. Often times beatmap makers incorrectly gauge the proper setting for HP Drain, thus making the song impossible or nearly so to complete.
3. A lot of the more common and big name rhythm games do amazingly well, despite not having this additional standard difficulty. So sources show, it would not ruin the game.

It's very, very possible that I missed a point or your have a very convincing counter argument of your own. I will do my best to reply to everyone trying engage in civilized debate over this one subject. If I don't get to you, I'm very sorry... or you were just being a jerk when you were posting and I ignored you.

To anyone who just read this thread, before starting a discussing refer to this thread:

t/137182&start=0

Thank you for your completely unnecessary reference link to my last thread where I was directed to come here and properly word my opinions to avoid the mass confusion and repetition inside that thread. No, really. You're a peach. Can you please just not troll and try to shit on opinions? That'd be great.

Try to think why I posted that link, it shouldn't be too hard to reason why.

Because you maintain that it's a bad idea. That, or you think I'm trying to troll the Osu! community. There were posts that are not opposed to this idea. There were posts that were opposing this idea. In the end, I was recommended to bring it here, reformulated, for a reason.

Here we go again~

By the way we're allowed to discuss if this is viable or not still in this forum. Please calm down and think of the situation. You discussed a lot in the other thread, so why not show what your arguments stated?

Dexus wrote:

Here we go again~

By the way we're allowed to discuss if this is viable or not still in this forum. Please calm down and think of the situation. You discussed a lot in the other thread, so why not show what your arguments stated?

:O
A rational thought has appeared!
Though I've stated mine in my original post. If I didn't address something I did in the last thread (that is fully relevant to the topic at hand), anyone can feel free to point it out.

ImmortalChibi wrote:

That, or you think I'm trying to troll the Osu! community.

Who said that?

ImmortalChibi wrote:

Also, NoFail provides NO motivation for hitting any of the keys.

That is completely subjective. When I play with nofail I always try my best to hit the circles, because I use nofail only for practising parts I can't do without it.

ImmortalChibi wrote:

It's very, very possible that I missed a point or your have a very convincing counter argument of your own.

Yes, and it basically was: Play more. You can't have any idea of how the game is supposed to work with so little experience from it.
Besides, if you're failing on Easy/Normal without any mods, then you clearly need to practice a lot more before suggesting any change/addition to the gameplay.

As Wishy said, on Easy/Normal we have literally the time to sneeze and scratch the nose before failing.
I think the game is easy enough. If you don't like the difficulty of this game then you have two options:
1. Quit the game.
2. Practice and get better at it.


There is really no need for such a new mod. No support.

I don't see the point in turning off hp drain, it's how you lose in the game. I even think that missing beats just increases the hp drain by percentages and missing sliders the same. If you take out hp drain it will most likely fuck the game up.

If you don't like no-fail, turn on easy, or just plain get better.

If you're not able to survive on a specific difficulty, you shouldn't play it unless you're trying to improve.

Even though I've been following the other thread too, I can only see butthurt of not being able to keep up with a map here. Really, is it just me or something, but you're THE FIRST PERSON having the problem with it. And you're relatively fresh, no one knows you, this will probably get invalided in few days. Why are you even arguing? We all know that mechanics of game WON'T change, just because you can't keep up with some maps with high drain. Most of new maps are designed so you can miss few notes, and still play. There are several more feature requests, which request changes in core mechanics of game, and even they are more ignored than your thread, and trust me, they're more needed that this *in my opinion ofc.* stupid drain request.

I really can't see this happening.

GoldenWolf wrote:

Yes, and it basically was: Play more. You can't have any idea of how the game is supposed to work with so little experience from it.
Besides, if you're failing on Easy/Normal without any mods, then you clearly need to practice a lot more before suggesting any change/addition to the gameplay.

As Wishy said, on Easy/Normal we have literally the time to sneeze and scratch the nose before failing.
I think the game is easy enough. If you don't like the difficulty of this game then you have two options:
1. Quit the game.
2. Practice and get better at it.


There is really no need for such a new mod. No support.

1. I play on hard difficulty as well. And we've all already been over the fact that the difficulty rating isn't 100% accurate because most beatmap makers are not perfect at it.
2. It's true that I could eventually become better through a very long series of failures. However, it's much more likely you'll get your way and have only people who are already good at this game play it. And your community will never expand, or expand at a snail's pace.
3. You literally don't have time to sneeze. You put up a video of you sneezing on easy/normal and passing it and I'll believe you. But you literally have two literal hands. Literally one can be playing Osu! while the other can literally address the literal task at your literal hand... I like the word literal.

BlackStat wrote:

I don't see the point in turning off hp drain, it's how you lose in the game. I even think that missing beats just increases the hp drain by percentages and missing sliders the same. If you take out hp drain it will most likely fuck the game up.

If you don't like no-fail, turn on easy, or just plain get better.

HP Drain missing would not fuck the game up. My STRONG supporters of this are Guitar Hero, DDR, Rock Band, and many other rhythm based games where the loss of health is dependent on notes you hit.
And this is part of an issue with me, and probably only a VERY small amount of others: turning on easy makes the game too slow. I hit the circles way to early because I have an itchy trigger finger. I like it to be fast, but I don't like the HP Drain being so incredulously strong that you simply CANNOT do a part if you had a bad start (not failing , just a rocky intro).

eldnl wrote:

If you're not able to survive on a specific difficulty, you shouldn't play it unless you're trying to improve.

Yes, this is true in some or most senses. Then it calls into question why there are any mods at all to make a song easier. The ONLY songs that should have any easier modifiers are 1/2 star songs. And then the only songs that should have increased difficulty are 5 star songs, since if you want to improve you simply go up a difficulty.

It's weird to me if:
1. HP Bar isn't present when I'm playing for ranked score, and/or
2. HP Bar stays still if I don't miss/hit notes (in active/playing time). <-- I like the animation :p

(Not going to say what people have said in this thread or your other thread in G&R already)

No support for this one.

ImmortalChibi wrote:

1. I play on hard difficulty as well. And we've all already been over the fact that the difficulty rating isn't 100% accurate because most beatmap makers are not perfect at it.
2. It's true that I could eventually become better through a very long series of failures. However, it's much more likely you'll get your way and have only people who are already good at this game play it. And your community will never expand, or expand at a snail's pace.
3. You literally don't have time to sneeze. You put up a video of you sneezing on easy/normal and passing it and I'll believe you. But you literally have two literal hands. Literally one can be playing Osu! while the other can literally address the literal task at your literal hand... I like the word literal.

1. You're playing Hard at 100playcount? You're 1'000 years too early boy.

2. That's called talent. But unlike you seem to think, the only thing that matter in osu! is one word: Practice.
Also, why does it matter? It's better to have a small community and/or expanding it at snail's pace instead of having huge trash community like in your favourite MOBA game.

3. Yes you do. And no I won't make any video of me doing that because I can't sneeze on-demand. I also can sneeze and still FCing (It means having Full Combo) Insanes. You can't do it because you're too new and not experienced enough.
Oh and also, I play tablet+keyboard so both my hands are busy playing and I don't have a third one to do anything else with.

GoldenWolf wrote:

3. Yes you do. And no I won't make any video of me doing that because I can't sneeze on-demand. I also can sneeze and still FCing (It means having Full Combo) Insanes. You can't do it because you're too new and not experienced enough.
Oh and also, I play tablet+keyboard so both my hands are busy playing and I don't have a third one to do anything else with.

I play mouse only, i can even drink while playing insane.

Marcin wrote:

I play mouse only, i can even drink while playing insane.

Ah ah amazing, I can't do anything else while playing because I'm too focused, can't even chew anything :p

ImmortalChibi wrote:

However, it's much more likely you'll get your way and have only people who are already good at this game play it. And your community will never expand, or expand at a snail's pace.

No one is good from the start. Most people just deal with it and struggle their way up, or quit along the way. I've never seen anyone complaining about the HP drain this much before, and I've never met anyone who thinks of it as this much of an issue. Just play stuff on your level and move up from there, you have barely played the game; how about playing a bit more? Come back in a few months of actively playing and see if the HP drain is still an issue for you.

As for the community never expanding and such, you're just overreacting.

No support as I don't see much of a point for this.

ImmortalChibi wrote:

3. You literally don't have time to sneeze. You put up a video of you sneezing on easy/normal and passing it and I'll believe you. But you literally have two literal hands. Literally one can be playing Osu! while the other can literally address the literal task at your literal hand... I like the word literal.

I wouldn't feel comfortable putting a vid of me playing Osu! on youtube just to justify this, I can literally take a sip of my drink in the middle of playing an easy/hard map and not have a problem with drain. I can vouch for GW.

ImmortalChibi wrote:

BlackStat wrote:

I don't see the point in turning off hp drain, it's how you lose in the game. I even think that missing beats just increases the hp drain by percentages and missing sliders the same. If you take out hp drain it will most likely fuck the game up.

If you don't like no-fail, turn on easy, or just plain get better.

HP Drain missing would not fuck the game up. My STRONG supporters of this are Guitar Hero, DDR, Rock Band, and many other rhythm based games where the loss of health is dependent on notes you hit.
And this is part of an issue with me, and probably only a VERY small amount of others: turning on easy makes the game too slow. I hit the circles way to early because I have an itchy trigger finger. I like it to be fast, but I don't like the HP Drain being so incredulously strong that you simply CANNOT do a part if you had a bad start (not failing , just a rocky intro).

Removing Hp Drain actually would. Osu! has always had Hp Drain and always will. It's the core mechanic of the game and can not be touched. Osu! Isn't Guitar Hero, or DDR, or Rock Band, or any other rhythm game.
Also if you like hard songs, you have to be willing to lose repeatedly if you can't get a combo going. If you can't keep getting notes right, then the Hp Drain will kill you, yeah, that's just how the game is.

Marcin wrote:

Even though I've been following the other thread too, I can only see butthurt of not being able to keep up with a map here. Really, is it just me or something, but you're THE FIRST PERSON having the problem with it. And you're relatively fresh, no one knows you, this will probably get invalided in few days. Why are you even arguing? We all know that mechanics of game WON'T change, just because you can't keep up with some maps with high drain. Most of new maps are designed so you can miss few notes, and still play. There are several more feature requests, which request changes in core mechanics of game, and even they are more ignored than your thread, and trust me, they're more needed that this *in my opinion ofc.* stupid drain request.

I really can't see this happening.

1. Yeah, it could be just me upset at a couple of songs. Does it make this idea any less valid for the greater community that may face the same thing? No.
2. I'm the first person YOU'VE SEEN. If you really followed the other thread, you would take note of people saying this is a recurring idea.
3. We never know what will change unless we try it.
4. Those "some maps" I happen to really enjoy the song on and it's not like there are ample beatmaps with the same songs and I'll find the perfect one. The selection is limited.

alxnr wrote:

It's weird to me if:
1. HP Bar isn't present when I'm playing for ranked score, and/or
2. HP Bar stays still if I don't miss/hit notes (in active/playing time). <-- I like the animation :p

(Not going to say what people have said in this thread or your other thread in G&R already)

No support for this one.

I can understand that. But I didn't ask for it to change the overall game. A simple mod will do. And if you don't support this mod simply because you wouldn't use it... well would you be against gay marriage simply because you're not gay? (This example is terrible if you are actually against gay marriage, but I hope you get the idea).

GoldenWolf wrote:

1. You're playing Hard at 100playcount? You're 1'000 years too early boy.

2. That's called talent. But unlike you seem to think, the only thing that matter in osu! is one word: Practice.
Also, why does it matter? It's better to have a small community and/or expanding it at snail's pace instead of having huge trash community like in your favourite MOBA game.

3. Yes you do. And no I won't make any video of me doing that because I can't sneeze on-demand. I also can sneeze and still FCing (It means having Full Combo) Insanes. You can't do it because you're too new and not experienced enough.
Oh and also, I play tablet+keyboard so both my hands are busy playing and I don't have a third one to do anything else with.

1. I am playing hard at 100 playcount. I can pass some of them, albeit with C's and D's. The ones I cannot pass are the ones that harbor this issue I'm trying to get resolved now.
2. Practice is good an necessary, yes. Buuuut the best way to translate this into what I mean is: Imagine I put you in a room with a live, ticking bomb and told you to defuse it. You have no background training in anywhere near this field. Just you and a complex piece of equipment. You're MOST likely to trip the wrong wire and detonate yourself to all Shanghai. This metaphor works because you can only practice the song a little bit at a time before failing again. And at some point it ceases to become practice, and turns into remember the notes (which does not help in other songs).
A small community is not great for a game. A small community means: less active players, less feedback, less revenue, and bad publicity.
3. Pics or it didn't happen? I mean, you're the one claiming skill, so cough up the proof or stop barking. Even IF YOU COULD, there's no way you could do it on an insane song you've never played before. AKA: You just remember the notes in a song from playing it so much, you can hit the right note while not looking at the screen.
And I don't know how using a tablet would work. I bet it's much easier than a mouse.

Marcin wrote:

I play mouse only, i can even drink while playing insane.

GoldenWolf wrote:

Ah ah amazing, I can't do anything else while playing because I'm too focused, can't even chew anything :p

I can barely scratch my nose while trying to focus. Drinking and eating kinda draw my eyes from the screen and I'm like, "Well there that goes." Ha ha.

To clarify if I sound harsh, I don't want to be rude or angry at anyone for what we're all saying.