[Luanny] wrote:

plus, sliders with weird shape and high sv will be a pain to follow

These are hard to follow anyway, even w/o HD.
Also, with Hidden it would be similar to fast spaced streams, they are just as hard to follow.

the problem is when it's too fast to be sightreadable, most long sliders have some unpredictable shapes (e.g. Why Am I So Angry), that'd be pretty much impossible to FC +HD unless you memorize all of them. And since you guys are trying to take out the "memorization" part, it doesn't make much sense.

If the slider will disappear progressively then you shoudln't have any trouble.

Wishy wrote:

If the slider will disappear progressively then you shoudln't have any trouble.

You mean like a collapsing bridge in movie/anime instead of the whole bar just vanish? That could work.

Oinari-sama wrote:

Wishy wrote:

If the slider will disappear progressively then you shoudln't have any trouble.

You mean like a collapsing bridge in movie/anime instead of the whole bar just vanish? That could work.

You should read the OP. That's exactly what Aqo requested..

Yes exactly.
Sliders don't fade instantly, they fade over time following the rate of the ticks which produces exactly the same fade effect as what circles get.
Try to look at how a spaced stream looks on HD, this is pretty much how sliders should look like with this.

Also, this seems like a shameless attempt from "boohoo FL sucks" "pro"-players to remove HD+FL from all scoreboards, because it will be completely impossible on most maps.

I don't support this because of various reason..... Please don't make this happen.

Blue Dragon wrote:

Also, this seems like a shameless attempt from "boohoo FL sucks" "pro"-players to remove HD+FL from all scoreboards, because it will be completely impossible on most maps.

No this just seems like a shitty, bad idea for people to waste stars on.

jesus1412 wrote:

Blue Dragon wrote:

Also, this seems like a shameless attempt from "boohoo FL sucks" "pro"-players to remove HD+FL from all scoreboards, because it will be completely impossible on most maps.

No this just seems like a shitty, bad idea for people to waste stars on.

Mind explaining what's bad about it, except for the fact that it's...a change?

Blue Dragon wrote:

Also, this seems like a shameless attempt from "boohoo FL sucks" "pro"-players to remove HD+FL from all scoreboards, because it will be completely impossible on most maps.

FLHD will work exactly as it did before. You still have to memorize the map.

Besides what's the problem if this is added as a toggle a.la. same style as DT/NC and SD/PF? People who like old HD can use old HD, people who want new HD use new HD, both have same multiplier of 1.06.

new HD should have a higher multiplier for HDFL then
following sliders with FL is ok, nothing so hard but FL with this new hd... you simply doesn't know where to go lol this is unfair
again, sliders with weird shape will be impossible to follow
memorizing notes placement is easier than memorizing shapes
you just need to go straight to the next note. for sliders you need to know exactly where you're going, aka it will be even harder
if this is added as a new mod it is ok.

[Luanny] wrote:

you simply doesn't know where to
again, sliders with weird shape will be impossible to follow

Let me say this again

learn to read ticks

they give you an indication of where to move the same way as circles do
I will have no problem following the weirdest sliders on shotgun symphony+ with this HD style because I can simply plan the movement on their ticks and it's easy as hell.
For somebody who has no trouble reading sliders, this HD isn't any harder than regular HD, thus it should have the exact same multiplier. This HD is more convenient in dealing with stacks under sliders as well as dealing with consistency of AR, neither of which is a real difficulty, it's more like fake difficulty that is - right now - solved by grinding/memorization and this style of HD would allow to remove this memorization aspect and allow people to enjoy HD in the true spirit of the mod (which is short-term planning ahead).

it would certainly be fun just to try it out, on the test build perhaps.

Aqo wrote:

[Luanny] wrote:

you simply doesn't know where to
again, sliders with weird shape will be impossible to follow

Let me say this again

learn to read ticks

they give you an indication of where to move the same way as circles do
I will have no problem following the weirdest sliders on shotgun symphony+ with this HD style because I can simply plan the movement on their ticks and it's easy as hell.
For somebody who has no trouble reading sliders, this HD isn't any harder than regular HD, thus it should have the exact same multiplier. This HD is more convenient in dealing with stacks under sliders as well as dealing with consistency of AR, neither of which is a real difficulty, it's more like fake difficulty that is - right now - solved by grinding/memorization and this style of HD would allow to remove this memorization aspect and allow people to enjoy HD in the true spirit of the mod (which is short-term planning ahead).

why am i so angry [nogard].

the ending.

okay, all of your arguments are invalid, you can lock this thread now.

.

BRBP wrote:

Blue Dragon wrote:

why am i so angry [nogard].

the ending.

okay, all of your arguments are invalid, you can lock this thread now.

.

Ok, one of your unranked maps has sliders that aren't sight readable with this new mod (but are with FL ). Let's not make any changes to the game because of that.

He is trying to say that speedsliders (such in his map and many other APPROVED maps) would make this mod much horrific. Probably making maps much harder for the wrong reason.

I was talking about HDFL.
js.
btw good luck on playing that Usatei map HDFL
those sliders... hue

pretty much ANY ranked map with tick rate 1 and fast sliders is completely impossible, lol

oh btw forgot to say
tick DOES NOT give enough indication of how the slider shape is
you can have a curvy slider and follow it like a straight line (again talking about HDFL)
you may break it lel
how do we even see the ticks with FL when the sv is high?
sliders are meant to be followed, not to be hidden.

could you have a smart scoring system in place to give you an extra 0.1x multiplyer ontop of the 0.6x for hidden if both hd+fl are selected? this would show reflect the difficuty of the multiple mods. that end in nastyness. however if this where to happen old high scores on easy maps could be decimated by additional 0.1x multiplier.

@ Luanny & BD: Yeah what. So you say HD gets harder. And? Problem? Doesn't it make way more sense if the sliders where fading? Just take a look at the picture in the OP. I mean, some maps are nearly impossible to HR, why shouldn't there be maps which are nearly impossible to HD?

I changed my mind, you're right. I can't do hd and I can't do fl so let's make them both harder for everyone.

I'm serious +1

support, as long as reverse arrows stay visible.

Blue Dragon wrote:

why am i so angry [nogard].

the ending.

okay, all of your arguments are invalid, you can lock this thread now.

.

Guess what BD
I played your map
Those sliders are easy as hell to read with ticks
This style of HD won't make them any harder at all
stop being bad at reading sliders
your arguments are invalid kthxbye

BRBP wrote:

Ok, one of your unranked maps has sliders that aren't sight readable blah blah

NO, STOP

it's readable

gosh you guys are so bad

Blue Dragon wrote:

pretty much ANY ranked map with tick rate 1 and fast sliders is completely impossible, lol

That's because tick rate 1 on a map that's mapped with 1/2s and not 1/1s is fcking stupid and it should be unrankable because it's impossible to even read that nomod.

And with that said, sliders with tick rate 1 only require you to be on the slider body on every 1/1 (where the tick is) and you can go out and dance around all you want between them, so even on those, you can just follow the ticks and still FC them.

[Luanny] wrote:

oh btw forgot to say
tick DOES NOT give enough indication of how the slider shape is

yes they do
you don't really have to follow slider shapes, you only need to follow their ticks.
that weird slider in the end of talent shredder? ticks tell you exactly how to follow it.
those weird shellfish sliders on airman? ticks tell you exactly how to follow them
lern2sliders pls

[Luanny] wrote:

talking about HDFL
you may break it lel
how do we even see the ticks with FL when the sv is high?
sliders are meant to be followed, not to be hidden.

FL is a memorization mod. If something is unreadable on FL, it's not a problem, because guess what, FL is ALREADY unreadable.

akronicillness wrote:

could you have a smart scoring system in place to give you an extra 0.1x multiplyer ontop of the 0.6x for hidden if both hd+fl are selected?

no no no no no
this is completely unnecessary
this doesn't need any special multipliers at all
scoring-wise this should be the EXACT SAME as current hidden, since it reads the exact same except you can't be lazy on sliders anymore

Just make it a drag-over mod with the same multiplier and then I don't see what the problem is? people who cry "unreadable sliders" can still use old HD and get the exact same score as always and as anybody else, and people who know how to read sliders and don't want to deal with the annoyance of under-slider-stacks can use this new HD and read the full map HD-style (and not just the circles) and in return avoid the memorization aspect which is befitting of FL and not HD.

Aqo wrote:

FL is a memorization mod. If something is unreadable on FL, it's not a problem, because guess what, FL is ALREADY unreadable.

I don't like FL so let's make it difficult for people who like it UAEHUAEHEAUHEAUHEAUEA

aqo logic

Blue Dragon wrote:

Aqo wrote:

FL is a memorization mod. If something is unreadable on FL, it's not a problem, because guess what, FL is ALREADY unreadable.

I don't like FL so let's make it difficult for people who like it UAEHUAEHEAUHEAUHEAUEA

aqo logic

Except how does this make anything harder if you can still use the old HD, which means IT PLAYS EXACTLY THE SAME?

Just because it's possible to Nightcore maps now it doesn't mean you're not allowed to use old DT anymore.

~ updated the topic title, just for you BD ~

I wouldn't mind if it were a toggle. What would it be called though? Hidden+?

Oh and to make a sidepoint about tick theory. People are allowed to mute slider ticks. They aren't always readable. but this point doesn't matter if it's a drag toggle.

Again, if this works like nightcore and perfect it is ok as long as its multiplier is higher when using FL.
Ok, now with this new OP I support the idea.

[Luanny] wrote:

its multiplier is higher when using FL.

but why

i can see the argument from both sides. i would prefer for a higher multiplyer for this however i dont think it would be practical to impliment. as i said in my other post high scores would be decimated from this new mod. yes i makes it harder but if you dont like it dont play it.

Aqo wrote:

[Luanny] wrote:

its multiplier is higher when using FL.

but why

It will remove every last bit of readability that FL has currently. For reference, try watching Auto play basically any stream map and see if you can see anything - then compare it to the sliders in the same map. Especially on 200 combo +, you won't be able to see much of the streams. If we apply this to sliders, the same impossibility of reading will be applied to the sliders as well, which will make a FL+HD FC much, much harder to do.
This applies more to slower maps rather than fast ones, but aren't those the ones people usually FL+HD anyway?

In any case, I'd want to see this in the game for the lols it'd provide, but only as an optional flip-over behaviour with no benefits over playing normal HD.

akronicillness wrote:

high scores would be decimated from this new mod.

That's the main reason that multiplier for it should be the same as old HD and not higher. Giving it higher would mean it would wreck all the rankings.

If people want to FLHD, they should either use the old HD or deal with the difficulty of the new HD if they choose to use it. FL is a memorization mod anyway.

You guys should look at it the other way round. Try to imagine fading sliders were already implemented and now some suggests to remove them because "they are too hard with FL". Would you really support it?

That's really cool.

Tshemmp wrote:

You guys should look at it the other way round. Try to imagine fading sliders were already implemented and now some suggests to remove them because "they are too hard with FL". Would you really support it?

No you're wrong this is a stupid point.

[Luanny] wrote:

Again, if this works like nightcore and perfect it is ok as long as its multiplier is higher when using FL.
Ok, now with this new OP I support the idea.

A higher multiplier is also a stupid point but I assume this is just a sarcastic remark to make everyone realise how retarded this would be.

Interesting idea, seems like a lot of people are in favor of this. Although I myself don't see the necessity of it. It would be nice to have the option to toggle it, although it would most likely be a one time thing that less than half of the players would bother with anyway.

i dont think it would need a higher multiplier on FL. i agree with aqo there, FL is already a memorization mod. the normal HD doesnt give increased multiplier with FL either when its exponentially more difficult than without FL

I think that... all slider must to be visible, so I think that idea can work if was only a esthetic purpose and slider works in this way > While you are following the slider the part that you already have passed with cursor fade out. And for the reverse arrow, The process is just the reverse of it, the part that you need follow back appears again

I agree with this request. Hidden Sliders how they are at the moment aren't really consistent with how the hidden mod works. They can't be hidden if they are still able to be seen.