If you are still warming up, you are apparantly not ready. You are supposed to be ready 15 minutes in advance for general organizational purposes. All you do with boycotting this is delaying this whole organization and creating a bigger fuss than needed. I see no problem in inviting you 15 minutes in advance and then start the match right in time instead of inviting you 2 mins in advance, panic arose and then the match gets delayed by 15 minutes. And you know the schedules don't have that much space.

Deal with this rule change,manage your time better, please.

Loctav wrote:

If you are still warming up, you are apparantly not ready. You are supposed to be ready 15 minutes in advance for general organizational purposes. All you do with boycotting this is delaying this whole organization and creating a bigger fuss than needed. I see no problem in inviting you 15 minutes in advance and then start the match right in time instead of inviting you 2 mins in advance, panic arose and then the match gets delayed by 15 minutes. And you know the schedules don't have that much space.

Deal with this rule change,manage your time better, please.

I wont lie it's probably one of the more valid points in this thread, last game vs Argentina we were still trying to get through all the maps in a separate lobby. We thought we had plenty of time but we were called in advanced meaning we couldn't finish the rotation.

Supporting KRZY. The rule is not needed and is more annoying than that it brings joy to the tournament.

Asking teams to enter the multi 15 minutes prior to the match is the opposite of what's normal in most games competitions.

We played 8 maps counting the lixAxil rematch and it took 45 minutes. Teams should have 15 minutes to get their 4 players into the multi and make them ready.

Playing maps 15 minutes before the match: getting hands warm
Wait in multiplayer for 15 minutes: getting hands cold
Ideal playing conditions: warm hands.

CXu wrote:

Playing maps 15 minutes before the match: getting hands warm
Wait in multiplayer for 15 minutes: getting hands cold
Ideal playing conditions: warm hands.

Ideal solution: use hand warmers.

I tried hot water against hong kong. Didn't work ;_;

"Warm" doesn't necessarily mean temperature, but can also mean "warmed up" as in fit for playing. Or both.

why is the map pool format changed back ;/

KRZY wrote:

I'm assuming he made this rule because he wants the streams to be ready prior to the start of the games. Well, I've said this before(which unfortunately got deleted by none other than Loctav), and I'll say it again: there must be an absolute priority for players over streamers. If they need the extra minute to prepare for the match before joining it, they are going to get it. I would not like to see any more PM attacks right before the game, which can seriously stress me out and affect my gameplay.

The matches should be played and streamed on time. If you simply start to join the multiplayer match right on the hour, then playing will end up starting late. Things are supposed to be on time as a group. I setup streams to be ready to start as soon as we are supposed to, and that requires logging off osu and setting up my connection early. In real "offline" tournaments even, singers/players/whatever are always required to "be ready" before the time to perform. You cant just show up right before you have to play if it takes staff a while to organize things after you get there or else it wont start on time.

The problem here seems to be that players didn't know that you need to join the room before the match, but now you do so just start warming up earlier. 15 minutes of not playing should not make your warmup useless. If so, just move around your mouse and pretend you are playing or something lol. Also this:

Loctav wrote:

There is no problem to start the initial match with 1 warmup map we already start to stream.

It is true that not playing for 15 minutes is indeed annoying. I used to play multiplayer several hours a day, meaning up to 6/7, and taking breaks of just 20/25 minutes actually made me need to play 1 or 2 maps to get warmed up again.

There is no problem to start the initial match with 1 warmup map we already start to stream.

Hey why are we having these maps once again in owc:
Syuiro - Ama no Jaku
Megpoid GUMI - Jinsei Reset Button
It's kind of ridiculous that you chose the same maps concerning the amount of ranked maps is almost 5000

Maps gonna stay. We didn't find out that a little late (we didn't know till now to be honest) but we usually just reject any map used on OWC #1 or #2. But we already got feedback from several players who thought of this pool as the best so far. We'd rather leave those maps since they're good even if they are recycled. We gonna try to avoid that in the future anyways since it was one of our guidelines not to re-use maps like that.

Thanks for pointing it out.

haha this map pool is easier than the last round's map pool.

Metro wrote:

My gameplay vs. UK.

lol@the last minute

Only like a few of the maps again.

Very disappointed of all the map picks so far.

Loctav wrote:

I see no problem in inviting you 15 minutes in advance and then start the match right in time instead of inviting you 2 mins in advance, panic arose and then the match gets delayed by 15 minutes.

I see no problem in us getting in that room 30 seconds before matchtime and starting the match right away. I take your assumption that if we arrive 2 minutes prior to matchtime, panic will arise and the match will be delayed by 15 minutes as a personal attack to the players. We are not children. I see arguments like "streamers have to be ready;" please, one more repeat of this argument and I will launch personal attacks, seriously. Players > streamers. Again, PLAYERS > STREAMERS. Again, PLAYERS > STREAMERS.

You think you people are so important that everything have to be it around you for the tournament to run smoothly. Well, think again. I don't care if my match gets streamed as long as my team plays in optimal playing condition. As a captain, I must ensure everyone has done their preparation prior to the match and see who will play which map according to their performances right before the match in the multiplayer. There are so many variables in a multiplayer tournament that this is absolutely important, especially for a team that is aiming to win the tournament. I really, really don't understand why this tournament staff tries to fit everything so that it benefits them and not the players.

Also, I need another clarification. When you say that playing one warm-up match is okay, when can this warm-up match be? Does it have to be before the matchtime? If so, then 15 minutes aren't necessary; five minutes should be enough for the players to play the warm-up match and the streamers to set up their streams and obtain their necessary info using the MP History. If the warm-up match does not have to be before matchtime (i.e. we play a warm-up match after matchtime and start the match), then there is really no reason why we should get into the room 15 minutes prior to the match at all. All the captains need to do 15 minutes before the game is agree on who will pick the maps first and send in their probable starting line-up to the management, who will provide the information to the schedulers (since you guys don't seem to like direct communication), who will in turn start preparing.

Please, use sense and reason, not authority, to handle situations like these. I expect a more reasonable answer to this then your previous one.

A comment on map pool:

SYNC.ART'S ft. Sakaue Nachi - Green Grass Garden (Odaril) [Lunatic]

I feel that this version of the map is superior to the map in the pool in every aspect. The map almost made it to the top maps of 2010 if I remember correctly. Personal input though, I understand others may have slightly to completely different opinions.

I actually was about to reject it since I thought it was that version lol.

Wishy wrote:

I actually was about to reject it since I thought it was that version lol.

Oh well :S

You are not the centre of the universe. Just because YOU can make it in time and start right away, it doesn't mean, that others will.
You should actually read Makar's and Metro's post.
Stop naggling about every little change. I doubt that your team will have a nervous breakdown because you have to interrupt playing for 15 mins.
You are not reading the posts properly, you don't understand why we need this time buffer (also captains need time to collect their players into the room)

Simply: final word once again: this is usual procedure, deal with it, else you know where the door is. This is a tournament. And in a tournament, you always have a hold-in moment for organizational purposes.
I Won't repeat myself again. Also your complaint can be officially considered as disapproved, discarded and will be ignored from now on.
I have not even the slightest intention to change it back.

Also warmup can be started whenever preparations are finished (doesn't need to be in the 15 mins)

KRZY wrote:

A comment on map pool:

SYNC.ART'S ft. Sakaue Nachi - Green Grass Garden (Odaril) [Lunatic]

I feel that this version of the map is superior to the map in the pool in every aspect. The map almost made it to the top maps of 2010 if I remember correctly. Personal input though, I understand others may have slightly to completely different opinions.

I am highly interested in knowing why. If you get a chance, please PM me, I'm curious.

Oh yeah, that map better than mine even regarding the hitsounds ? lol.

And you don't understand that everytime changes are made, people disagree because the changes are actually for the worse (and they take the effort to explain why). But you are the management, what you say goes. I will drop the matter.

KRZY wrote:

And you don't understand that everytime changes are made, people disagree because the changes are actually for the worse (and they take the effort to explain why). But you are the management, what you say goes. I will drop the matter.

The changes are for the better, for reasons you may not understand because you are not in the staff to see what happens during the matches.
Everybody's role here is equal, and so we should not revolve around just one person/group. Again, looking at other tournaments/competitions will help you understand why this is needed. If this is what it takes to get -everybody- ready by the time scheduled, then that is how it should be done.

Also, 1337th post www

KRZY wrote:

A comment on map pool:

SYNC.ART'S ft. Sakaue Nachi - Green Grass Garden (Odaril) [Lunatic]

I feel that this version of the map is superior to the map in the pool in every aspect. The map almost made it to the top maps of 2010 if I remember correctly. Personal input though, I understand others may have slightly to completely different opinions.

+1

if everything has to run so smoothely, why is the stream horrible quality, always lagging, streamers doont know what they are talking about sometimes, comentating is way behind on the actual stream. get that fixed before you get other stuff fixed that didnt even need fixing.

silmarilen wrote:

if everything has to run so smoothely, why is the stream horrible quality, always lagging, streamers doont know what they are talking about sometimes, comentating is way behind on the actual stream. get that fixed before you get other stuff fixed that didnt even need fixing.

Wow, that's actually clever. GG NO RE, man.

silmarilen wrote:

if everything has to run so smoothely, why is the stream horrible quality,

It was said before that for the next week when I stream, I will be running the stream on 1000kbps due to bandwidth limitations. For 1K, it looks/sounds pretty good.

silmarilen wrote:

always lagging,

Define what you mean here. If you mean stuff like buffering in the client, then that has to do with the connection (see previous), and some stuff is due to the client itself. If you mean something related to what I say below, then that is only fixable to an extent and will improve in a couple weeks when I finish exams. Other reasons could also be because of your own connection.

silmarilen wrote:

streamers doont know what they are talking about sometimes,

Do we ever talk? Wanna give examples? I only talk when the stream goes down to explain why it went down. We wouldn't stream if we didn't know what we are doing.

silmarilen wrote:

comentating is way behind on the actual stream.

This is unfixable on any stream using software available to us. The commentators comment based on how they see the stream (which always will be behind) and results in the actual commentating being late.

silmarilen wrote:

get that fixed before you get other stuff fixed that didnt even need fixing.

This needed fixing

But seriously now, the 15 minute rule doesn‘t affect the outcome. You have to know, the enemy team also hay to wait 15 minutes, so what? A Korean team won‘t loose against a not-so-good team just because of the wait...Because everyone has to. You may not show your full skillpotential, but really, that doesn‘t matter anyway.

I have a really good internet connection and computer for streaming, but I don't know if I have the schedule to do it. I stream really high quality 60fps every day pretty much, and none of my stuff is delayed and whatnot. If you guys want, I could try my hand at doing some streaming/commentating of matches. I've done it for other games, and it would be cool to bring it to osu.

just let kyou commentate

Thatgooey wrote:

I have a really good internet connection and computer for streaming, but I don't know if I have the schedule to do it.

This is the main problem for streamers at the moment though. We have two streamers who are both in the eastern timezone, so it's difficult for us to stream matches at 3-5AM

If I had to be honest:

Stream is terrible. 720p is unwatchable since it get's lagged constatly (image freezing) and it doesn't even look like 720p. Again it's not just me since I usually watch 1080p streams without major problems (while downloading shit via torrent at high speeds, meaning 3MB/s). Then again on low quality you can barely see combo count.

Hitsound spam is annoying, though peppy is already working on this so I guess this is ok.

Commentators are clueless about what they're talking about. Doing some research about maps being played and each player overall performances would be a good idea. Getting comments late/early I don't even know what's the problem is something you can fix, I've found myself watching streams where I myself was talking and everything came up late. Meaning there was like a 2 minutes delay@video AND audio (Skype conversation). Anyways commentators should study each map, know what parts player are likely to miss on, do a little research about each player (I don't really know many but sometimes I'm watching and it's really easy to tell who's gonna do well or bad because of how they play).

And the 15 minutes rule is, indeed, useful, but there is a priorities problem. You can show up 20 minutes late, but then again you gotta join the game 15 minutes earlier than the time you arranged. Having to wait 15 minutes before the match w/o playing can be troublesome since your hands "go cold". I'd change that time gap to 5 minutes (unless your cat is on fire or you're playing Stream Compilation you shouldn't have any problem with this) and even let the player play 2 or even 3 warm up maps just in case.

Only good thing I can say about this is the stream is almost always online, which is good, and most matches are being played w/o much trouble, but really there is A LOT to improve, rather than the 15 minutes thing. Like really I would love to know why you need the players to be there. If you want the initial line-up you can get that information via PM. You can set up the stream while players are just screwing around, etc.

I agree and disagree with silm here. yeah, there are definetly issues that are worse than what loctav tries to fix.

on the other hand, for a high quality stream, your pc has to be forged by dwarfs in the depths of the hell and enhanced by dark magic. ok, not quite as good, but you get the idea. without having either rich parents, a good job or just general luck in life, the probability that some random osu-guy has the machine required for high quality streaming is low enough on itself, and then they would have to agree that they stream.

the stream, as it is, is probably one of the better streams who have to deal with these kind of issues.

also I think KRZY is right about the point that players are more important than the stream, and the organizing. this tournament is small enough to be organized mostly by the players them self. any kind of extra stress will only lead to a lesser tournament experience for the players. I am willing to sacrifice my comfort for the players, if it helps them to play the best that is possible for them.

FreedomofBirds wrote:

You have to know, the enemy team also hay to wait 15 minutes, so what? A Korean team won‘t loose against a not-so-good team just because of the wait

am I the only one who found this funny

Wishy wrote:

Stream is terrible. 720p is unwatchable since it get's lagged constatly (image freezing) and it doesn't even look like 720p. Again it's not just me since I usually watch 1080p streams without major problems (while downloading shit via torrent at high speeds, meaning 3MB/s). Then again on low quality you can barely see combo count.

Resolution isn't everything when it comes to quallity. The stream is 720p, yes, but the bitrate is low for reasons mentioned in previous post. We were instructed by peppy to use this resolution knowing this.

Wishy wrote:

Hitsound spam is annoying, though peppy is already working on this so I guess this is ok.

If I knew this wasn't intentional I would of easily fixed it myself. I figured it was intentional since this shouldn't be a bug due to peppy's ability to already be able to adjust volume levels on the client (music is only played from one client). Also, peppy never mentioned anything about it and he is always with us when we are streaming to nitpick everything so its the best we are able to make it.

Wishy wrote:

And the 15 minutes rule is, indeed, useful, but there is a priorities problem. You can show up 20 minutes late, but then again you gotta join the game 15 minutes earlier than the time you arranged. Having to wait 15 minutes before the match w/o playing can be troublesome since your hands "go cold". I'd change that time gap to 5 minutes (unless your cat is on fire or you're playing Stream Compilation you shouldn't have any problem with this) and even let the player play 2 or even 3 warm up maps just in case.

Honestly it would be okay if it was only 5-10 minutes, but something like 30 seconds like KRZY did in the previous match will cause us to be delayed.

Wishy wrote:

Only good thing I can say about this is the stream is almost always online, which is good, and most matches are being played w/o much trouble, but really there is A LOT to improve, rather than the 15 minutes thing. Like really I would love to know why you need the players to be there. If you want the initial line-up you can get that information via PM. You can set up the stream while players are just screwing around, etc.

Some of it has to do with how the spectator client works (though peppy is working on making this more automated so extra time isn't needed). We already ask for initial line-ups 15 minutes before the game is made, but most of the time the captains have no idea (which is another reason for the joining the match early thing). It usually takes them 15 minutes to finalize this (most likely because all of the players are warming up so communication is very slow). As I said imo it should really only be 5-10 minutes. It's still a little bit more than we need, but it gives us extra time in-case something goes wrong. 15 minutes isn't long at all though, seriously. An extra 5 minutes shouldn't affect you, just use it to go to the bathroom or take breathing exercises or something.

yay my map

if the stream is low quality because of the internet connection of the streamer, get someone to stream with a better connection.
also the delay on commentating can be fixed by either
having all the commentators in a tournament client and watching through there
or having an internal stream where they can watch and commentate and then that gets restreamed to the public one.

silmarilen wrote:

if the stream is low quality because of the internet connection of the streamer, get someone to stream with a better connection.

See previous posts.

silmarilen wrote:

also the delay on commentating can be fixed by either
having all the commentators in a tournament client and watching through there

Not everybody can use the spectator client though, and that would require peppy to make a bunch of different account for everybody. The client isn't nearly as stable as osu either (there have been a few times where the client crashed during the matches). Players would have a shitton (8 per commentator) of spectators too lmao. This might be looked into though.

silmarilen wrote:

or having an internal stream where they can watch and commentate and then that gets restreamed to the public one.

...Why would want to do this? xD