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Nightless Sane Mafia (Mafia Win.)

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anonymous_old
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anonymous_old
LyLo doesn't mean Town barely holds majority. It means if a non-Mafia is lynched, the Town doesn't win (i.e. ties or loses).

Let's say for example we have five players and two Mafia:
Anne - Vanilla Mafia
Bob - Vanilla Mafia
Charles - Doctor (can protect self)
Dick - Serial Killer
Earnie - Vanilla Townie

By your definition, this is LyLo.

However, Earnie can be lynched, and Bob and Dick are killed at Night, leaving Anne and Charles. Thus, a Mafia-Townie tie.

Earnie can be lynched, and Bob is killed at Night, with Dick being protected by Charles. This leaves Anne, Charles, and Dick. If Anne is lynched, it is a tie between the Town and Dick. If Charles is lynched, it is a tie between the Mafia and Dick. If Dick is lynched, the Mafia win.

Now imagine four players with two Mafia and two Serial Killers. xD
Echo
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Echo
great, i missed the day

i'm sure someone mentioned the possibility of insane doctors on day 1, but I can't find the post, does anyone want to own up?
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

Echo wrote:

i'm sure someone mentioned the possibility of insane doctors on day 1, but I can't find the post, does anyone want to own up?
I looked through the topic (using the search for "Doctor") and nothing about Insane Doctors came up Day 1.
LadySuburu
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anonymous_old
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anonymous_old
Time to reread the whole thread for clues. x_x I don't know... I said earlier Echo looked the most suspicious to me, but I need to look over both Echo's and 0_o's posts again.
0_o
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0_o
If Derekku was a miller.. does that mean that there is another cop this game? Seeing as adam was naive a miller wouldn't make a difference otherwise..
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

0_o wrote:

If Derekku was a miller.. does that mean that there is another cop this game? Seeing as adam was naive a miller wouldn't make a difference otherwise..
Hmm, possibly. Or adam could be turned from Naive? I dunno. In BM1, I was Paranoid, but if I were healed by the Doctor, I would have turned Sane. (That didn't happen, sadly. =[)
Echo
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anonymous_old
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Echo wrote:

strager did you role claim ever at all?
No.

Echo wrote:

Also I don't think I need to mention (but obviously i just have) that no voting *AT ALL* until we've *ALL* agreed
You thought right.

Wait.

All except the Mafia of course, xD But getting two people to agree wouldn't work, because one could be the Mafia.

I dunno; I'll just refrain from voting until I'm greatly convinced.
Echo
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oh also are any of you two *absolutely sure* what derek's role is? similarly 0_o what's the exact name of your role, since you've claimed already?
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

Echo wrote:

oh also are any of you two *absolutely sure* what derek's role is?
Derekku's death post says he is/was a Miller.
0_o
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0_o
Officially I am a Twilight Townie, but from what my PM says (which is pretty much nothing) I'm basically a vanilla.

mod: when roles are revealed on death, are the exact role names revealed? ie if a Twilight Townie died would you say they were a Twilight Townie or Vanilla Townie?
LadySuburu
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LadySuburu

0_o wrote:

Officially I am a Twilight Townie, but from what my PM says (which is pretty much nothing) I'm basically a vanilla.

mod: when roles are revealed on death, are the exact role names revealed? ie if a Twilight Townie died would you say they were a Twilight Townie or Vanilla Townie?
Derekku's Role PM sent was Twilight Brownie, and was revealed as Miller. Similarly, any role will be revealed as the true role. (Twilight Townie is a theme role, and will be revealed as such.)
Echo
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strager: me/you role claim?
Derekku
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Derekku
*ghost* fffffff I knew I'd be killed next =(

And ah, I see what you did now LS. Tricky~

*cheers for 0_o* Goooooooooooooo TEAM! :3 inb40_oisactuallymafiafffffff
0_o
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0_o
..this is gonna come down to me again isn't it -_-

and yes, roles claims would be nice
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old
Sorry this took a while to post. Slowly chugged through the thread.

Also, I ignored some larger text walls. =S

You can ignore this post, but I would like bolded parts to be looked at.

Day 1
Cop tell?
SFG probably not a Cop.
SFG continues to hunt for the Doctor. Mafia tell? Probably goes with her Jester claim later.
SFG (probably intentionally) puts suspicion on herself. Probably goes with her Jester claim later.
SFG defends me so much I'm uncomfortable. Probably goes with her Jester claim later.
SFG says "I'm Mafia" subtly. Probably goes with her Jester claim later.
SFG claims Twilight Cop. Lucidity's reply.
Prefix theory. Argument is used to attack SFG.
Echo says SFG wasn't in danger. Yeah, right.
Me being stuck between Echo, Lucidity, and SFG. Of these three, only Echo is alive. However, my suspicions have changed slightly.
SFG purposely voting for adam. Probably goes with her Jester claim later.
adam says not voting for SFG is "plain to see," even though she was acting very suspicious.
adam says he wouldn't claim as a Mafia, but hints that SFG's claim is perhaps false. Why did he not want us going for SFG then?
SFG claims Jester.
LS corrects some roles. I didn't receive any correction. Did either of you? I would also like to say that SFG accidentally told me she was Jester outside of this game. I tried my best not to act on that. (It was like, page 10 or something then.)
0_o telling the Mafia what to do.
0_o suspects adam is the only Cop (claimed). This leads me to believe he isn't a Cop himself.
SFG claims Pressured Doctor. Very unbelievable.
"Assume" joke I missed earlier.
Echo suggests we assume adam is Sane. What? I hope this was a joke. Otherwise, it's hypocrisy.
Cop tell? The Finding the Cop article on the MafiaWiki states that a "player looking for reasons to vote day 1" is a cop tell. I'm thinking this can be transferred from 'vote' to 'post?'
Cop tell? Confirming vote.
adam says Echo is "very hard to read."
I made a typo. I wrote "I'm not stuck" where I meant to write "I'm now stuck."
0_o posts his opinions on each player. 0_o, do your opinions on Echo and I still apply? Also, most of the players which you cleared are dead now. =[
adam says I'm a "yes man." I still don't know what this means. Can you clarify?
Echo votes 0_o. Does your analysis still apply? Can you explain it please?
I missed this post. Yes, I did only look into it after you mentioned it. Is there something wrong with that? I know it was a possibility before you said anything, but if it's out there on the table it's easier to look at and approve of or disapprove of. I think I did this before, and I think it's a valid strategy.
SFG begs for a modkill.

Twilight 1

Meh this post isn't getting me far.

To me, Echo looks like a Cop. I don't know what to say about 0_o.
anonymous_old
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0_o
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0_o

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

strager: me/you role claim?
Uhh... Rolefishing?

I'm not sure how claiming would help us, unless someone can provide extra information (e.g. as a Cop).
Our roles have no reason to be a secret any more, do they? It's the final day so I can't think of any reason to keep it hidden, it's not like you are trying to avoid an NK here..

Next post will be a response to strager's questions
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

0_o wrote:

Our roles have no reason to be a secret any more, do they? It's the final day so I can't think of any reason to keep it hidden, it's not like you are trying to avoid an NK here..
Ah, I see what you mean.

I guess I'll claim and hope Echo keeps his little promise.

Claim: Unlynchable Townie
0_o
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0_o
LS corrects some roles. I didn't receive any correction. Did either of you?
Nope

0_o posts his opinions on each player. 0_o, do your opinions on Echo and I still apply?
I'm as suspicious of Echo as I was before, but I'm not sure enough that you aren't mafia either. Sure I chose you over Echo easily when we had seven players (we could afford 2 mis-lynches), but am I sure enough to vote for Echo right now? No way.

0_o telling the Mafia what to do.
SFG being a jester makes her a third party, which means she was not on our side nor the mafia's. So yes, I suggested we work together with the mafia to remove her, since it would have been in both of our best interests.

I think that's it
0_o
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Echo
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0_o: any interesting details attached to your role? You say it works exactly like a vanilla townie role?

edit:
LS corrects some roles. I didn't receive any correction. Did either of you?
No.

adam says I'm a "yes man." I still don't know what this means. Can you clarify?
He could be pointing to the fact that you often agree with what someone else says.

Echo votes 0_o. Does your analysis still apply? Can you explain it please?
My analysis would still apply in this situation, but how correct is it? I can't say. No, I won't explain it.

I missed this post. Yes, I did only look into it after you mentioned it. Is there something wrong with that?
Agreeing with what other people are saying makes it look like you're not scumhunting yourself, but only bandwagoning, in a sense.
0_o
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0_o

Echo wrote:

0_o: any interesting details attached to your role? You say it works exactly like a vanilla townie role?
Yep. If you were to replace the word "Twilight" with "Vanilla" it would look exactly like a Vanilla Townie PM.

Now from what I can tell Derekku didn't have any info about him being a Miller in his PM either, so if there is something special about myself, I don't know what it is.
anonymous_old
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Hah.

I'm still expecting a claim from Echo. (Not that I need one, but it sounded like you wanted to trade.)
Echo
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Yes I wanted to trade.

I'm a Day Cop, and I investigated strager today, and got a Guilty on him, and an Innocent on myself yesterday. To be honest the unlynchable townie role claim is a bit wacky. Not unheard of, I guess, but still a bit wacky.

0_o: your thoughts?
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

Echo wrote:

I'm a Day Cop, and I investigated strager today, and got a Guilty on him, and an Innocent on myself yesterday.
What did you get Day 1?
Echo
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strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

I'm a Day Cop, and I investigated strager today, and got a Guilty on him, and an Innocent on myself yesterday.
What did you get Day 1?
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

I'm a Day Cop, and I investigated strager today, and got a Guilty on him, and an Innocent on myself yesterday.
What did you get Day 1?
It's Day 3 today...
Echo
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anonymous_old
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Echo wrote:

I missed Day 2, since you guys went no lynch so quickly.
Oh, so "yesterday" is Day 1 for you. LS didn't wait for you to perform an action?
0_o
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Last edited by 0_o , edited 1 time in total.
anonymous_old
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0_o wrote:

-This post said we should assume adam is sane because he's the only cop left)
You've said yourself before that the town has no reason to lie. Explain?
I think he may have been joking. A few posts back I mentioned this.

EDIT:

strager wrote:

"Assume" joke [by Echo] I missed earlier.
Echo suggests we assume adam is Sane. What? I hope this was a joke. Otherwise, it's hypocrisy.
0_o
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0_o

strager wrote:

0_o wrote:

-This post said we should assume adam is sane because he's the only cop left)
You've said yourself before that the town has no reason to lie. Explain?
I think he may have been joking. A few posts back I mentioned this.

EDIT:

strager wrote:

"Assume" joke [by Echo] I missed earlier.
Echo suggests we assume adam is Sane. What? I hope this was a joke. Otherwise, it's hypocrisy.
Why would it be hypocrisy?
Also, I'm pretty sure I also said at one point that adam is likely sane, the difference is I didn't know any better.
Echo
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I was attempting to draw out contradictions from the mafia.
anonymous_old
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0_o wrote:

Why would it be hypocrisy?
Also, I'm pretty sure I also said at one point that adam is likely sane, the difference is I didn't know any better.
The two posts:

viewtopic.php?p=168551#p168551

Echo wrote:

@everyone in general

when you assume, you make an ass of u and me

so please don't reply *for* anyone else
viewtopic.php?p=168567#p168567

Echo wrote:

Since he's the only cop left, can we assume he's sane? :P
0_o
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anonymous_old
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0_o wrote:

EDIT: oh, the assume thing
Yeah. My focuses on each of those were different.
Echo
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Why do you think I italicised the word "assume" and used the :P smiley if I wasn't joking?
anonymous_old
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Echo wrote:

Why do you think I italicised the word "assume" and used the :P smiley if I wasn't joking?
I assumed you were joking.
Echo
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If I could set the expectation that adam was sane, then I might have gotten some interesting results which would counter my own investigations, and I would know who the mafia is.

Neither of you reacted in anyway when I said I investigated myself innocent and strager guilty. Were you both expecting it? Maybe you're both mafia. Maybe one of you is SK and the other mafia. Maybe you're siblings? Masons?
0_o
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0_o
strager: how suspicious am I to you? I have a plan that depends on the answer to my question to LS about "unlynchable townie lynches", but it involves counting me out as mafia.

Honestly, I think my early claim as "Twilight Townie" should clear me altogether (now that we know Derekku was definitely a Twilight Brownie), but that's up to you I guess.

EDIT: response to Echo:
I didn't react because I already know one of you is mafia. It didn't really matter what you claimed really: if you told the truth then strager is mafia, if you are lying then you are mafia.
Now if you said I was guilty, then I would know you were mafia, and I would probably vote you then and there.

hmm...
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Echo
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0_o wrote:

Honestly, I think my early claim as "Twilight Townie" should clear me altogether (now that we know Derekku was definitely a Twilight Brownie), but that's up to you I guess.
If you bring up something you said earlier in the the game and use it as a defense for yourself, that kinda cancels it out in my opinion. Why did you need to bring it up at all? We should be able to see this for ourselves, we (at least I) do take the order of role claims into account.

0_o wrote:

Now if you said I was guilty, then I would know you were mafia, and I would probably vote you then and there.
Right here you sound suspiciously like what I was doing in my last games when I was mafia - using *know* as a reason for persuading other people of your innocence.

0_o wrote:

I only voted for Lucidity because there were 2 votes on adam, and I wasn't entirely sure that the deadline wasn't 3 minutes from that post, so basically I scrolled up and voted for the last person who got voted for, in an attempt to keep adam around.

Also, I realized now that I made a mistake, it's actually adam that will be lynched in the event of a tie right now (IM SORRY :cry:)

That said, I am more leaning towards voting Echo than strager, but I will vote for strager anyway and if Lucidity comes up and decides to change her vote to Echo, then I will too (I will be back to check in ~20 minutes)
You were really willing to lynch *anyone* as long as adam didn't die?

back in 3h
0_o
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0_o

Echo wrote:

0_o wrote:

Honestly, I think my early claim as "Twilight Townie" should clear me altogether (now that we know Derekku was definitely a Twilight Brownie), but that's up to you I guess.
If you bring up something you said earlier in the the game and use it as a defense for yourself, that kinda cancels it out in my opinion. Why did you need to bring it up at all? We should be able to see this for ourselves, we (at least I) do take the order of role claims into account.
I wasn't the first person to bring this up, it's already been mentioned quite a few times throughout the thread (I can get examples on request)

Echo wrote:

0_o wrote:

Now if you said I was guilty, then I would know you were mafia, and I would probably vote you then and there.
Right here you sound suspiciously like what I was doing in my last games when I was mafia - using *know* as a reason for persuading other people of your innocence.
Not really sure what you mean by that, but what I said is true: I'm almost positive I'm not a miller (since Derekku was a Twilight Brownie and I'm not), and if you claimed you got a guilty result on me and innocent on yourself, you would be claiming sane cop. If I am who I claim I am, I would obviously know you were lying, hence mafia.

Echo wrote:

You were really willing to lynch *anyone* as long as adam didn't die?
Who would you rather lynch: someone without a roleclaim who could go either way, or an almost confirmed cop? I'm not really sure what you are accusing me of other than trying to keep the cop alive =/
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0_o
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0_o
Also with regards to my claim: personally I don't think it would make a lot of sense for there to be a Twilight Brownie without a Twilight Townie (with the obvious play on words and everything), and seeing as I'm the only one who has claimed townie (the only other possible person would be SFG, but with her Pressured Doctor claim I doubt it), I really do believe I should be cleared here :|

Echo: what are your thoughts on your guilty result on strager?
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Echo
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0_o wrote:

Echo: what are your thoughts on your guilty result on strager?
I think I'm lying.

I actually got a guilty result on 0_o, and an innocent on myself.

Let's consider this in conjunction with these two statements:

0_o wrote:

Yep. If you were to replace the word "Twilight" with "Vanilla" it would look exactly like a Vanilla Townie PM.

0_o wrote:

Now if you said I was guilty, then I would know you were mafia, and I would probably vote you then and there.
This assumes that I am a sane cop, which is reasonable given that my investigation flipped and that I got innocent on myself.

Assuming 0_o was innocent, then his role would be a vanilla townie, as per the first statement. In that case, my result will not change or be incorrect/opposite/etc. However, I got a guilty result on 0_o, who also said that if I got a guilty result on him then I would be mafia, which is a contradiction.

The fact that a contradiction came up means that something went wrong. My thought process is correct, which means my assumption is wrong.

In other words, I think 0_o is mafia. Q.E.D.
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

Echo wrote:

Assuming 0_o was innocent, then his role would be a vanilla townie, as per the first statement. In that case, my result will not change or be incorrect/opposite/etc. However, I got a guilty result on 0_o, who also said that if I got a guilty result on him then I would be mafia, which is a contradiction.
That's not a contradiction.

To him, he is Innocent. You got a Guilty on him and claim to be Sane. Thus, he sees you are incorrect and are lying. Mafia.

Echo wrote:

The fact that a contradiction came up means that something went wrong. My thought process is correct, which means my assumption is wrong.
?

Echo wrote:

Q.E.D.
That's what?

Nice periods btw.

I'm highly skeptical of you. Why would you lie? I don't care if you wanted a reaction. adam was a Cop and he didn't lie. He used other means to get a reaction.
0_o
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0_o
vote Echo
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old
Yeah...

Vote: Echo

A Townie has no reason to lie. A Cop, nonetheless.
0_o
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0_o
BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA







jk :P

Funny thing is I was actually starting to lean toward voting strager until Echo changed his story =/
Echo
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AHAHAHAHAHA

Good game. My slightly more radical approach didn't quite work out, I see :P

Still, my "analysis" held up - I predicted day 1 that 0_o was likely mafia. Also funny how none of you two used the "if i'm not dead tomorrow i'm mafia" against me
anonymous_old
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Echo wrote:

Still, my "analysis" held up - I predicted day 1 that 0_o was likely mafia.
I'm still interested in that analysis.

Echo wrote:

Also funny how none of you two used the "if i'm not dead tomorrow i'm mafia" against me
I ignored that.
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Echo
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When 0_o said "if you said I was guilty then I'd vote for you" it through me off a little, but after thinking it through my "proof" on the last page is actually logically sound and correct. Assuming I wasn't lying, of course, which I wasn't, but strager wouldn't know that.
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Echo wrote:

When 0_o said "if you said I was guilty then I'd vote for you" it through me off a little, but after thinking it through my "proof" on the last page is actually logically sound and correct. Assuming I wasn't lying, of course, which I wasn't, but strager wouldn't know that.
???

Also, *threw.
Echo
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Yes I meant threw. I don't usually make synonym mistakes in spelling >.>

My reasoning on the last page is logically sound and is correct.
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0_o

Echo wrote:

Also funny how none of you two used the "if i'm not dead tomorrow i'm mafia" against me
I was actually planning on bringing that up, as well as this:

Echo wrote:

Did anyone notice that in every game since the one where I was cop (m2?) I've been mafia?
Like seriously, WIFOM much? :P
anonymous_old
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I still don't get it. =[ (EDIT: @Echo)
Echo
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By assuming 0_o is innocent, I end up with a contradiction. Therefore, my assumption is wrong, or in other words 0_o is mafia.
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old
So who did you scan?

Or could you scan? ;P
Echo
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d1: me, innocent
d2: didn't get a chance
d3: 0_o, guilty
0_o
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0_o
wait hold on

we do know that I am NOT mafia, right? my post after strager voted was a joke...
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old
Echo, I was mainly asking for your logic here: viewtopic.php?p=169252#p169252

I know why you psuedovoted for 0_o Day 3.
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0_o wrote:

wait hold on

we do know that I am NOT mafia, right? my post after strager voted was a joke...
So you're kidding about kidding?
Derekku
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If it hadn't been for those meddling kids, we would've voted for you D1 strager ffffffff

gg
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Get on #osu, Echo.
Yuukari-Banteki
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Yuukari-Banteki
can i post my real roles yet?
Derekku
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Echo, 0_o most likely had a role like mine where he shows up as guilty, DUH.
Echo
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can we stop the games with lame roles please

eg. where cops actually help mafia because of bad results

or at least let the people who are playing with roles like miller *know* that they're miller?
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Echo wrote:

or at least let the people who are playing with roles like miller *know* that they're miller?
Like CM1?
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Echo
I think millers who don't know they're millers screw up the game.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Echo wrote:

I think millers who don't know they're millers screw up the game.
Yeah, I think so.
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo
btw if you are mafia in this game (@strager) then my theory is broken, for you at least. It holds for most of the past games.
LadySuburu
80 posts
Joined June 2008
Topic Starter
LadySuburu
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo
The setup was horribly unbalanced for town

strager - 100% against town

adam - 100% guilty results are on town
me - 67% guilty results are on town
lucidity - 50% chance killing town

sfg - has her own win condition

derek - .
0_o - .

That said, start a new balanced game already. Save me a spot :P
LadySuburu
80 posts
Joined June 2008
Topic Starter
LadySuburu
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Lucidity
132 posts
Joined December 2008
Lucidity
Oh well gg :P

Insane doc is too random for my liking but that's life ;p
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
I got lucky N1 when Lucidity killed adam, and I killed Lucidity. I knew she was the Doctor.

My Unlynchable claim worked out really well, too. I didn't care much about being lynched D1. (At least, I tried to make it seem that way.) If there was a no-lynch, the Mafia would go after me for the NK, but Lucidity would protect me. Thus, a free day for the Town!

Of course, that couldn't have worked, because I was the Mafia. ;P
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