Day 1 still isn't over? After some thinking (and apparently SFG isn't a cop), I'm going to trust adam (for now). So... Unvote.

Vote Count (going from 0_o's last one)

strager (3) - Echo, Lucidity, 0_o
Lucidity (1) - strager
Echo (1) - adam

Not voting - SFG, Derekku

unvote
vote Echo

strager will still be lynched if the day ends now btw

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0_o, why do you want to lynch Echo? If we can see your reasoning we can make a better decision between strager and Echo oO

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@Derekku Chan:

Good reason to trust me? No.

Good reason not to trust me? No.

How is an appeal to emotion scummy ~_~

Maybe not "scummy" per se, but it can still raise suspicion. Especially since SFG did it earlier (blah blah I don't care what you do I'm done with this game) and LS did it in Mafia 4 (same thing as SFG). You're saying "it's a bad idea to lynch me blah blah blah" but it's all WIFOM I guess? Oh whatever, it's not like I'm gonna vote you for that anyway :p

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Also, adam, your investigations results would be reeeeeeeally helpful now.

I'm voting Echo basically out of process of elimination:

0_o is innocent.
SFG is obviously cleared
adam I am fairly certain is the cop
Derekku I have a good feeling about (probably because of the twilight brownie weirdness)
strager I don't find that suspicious, from what I can tell he's acting like he always does
Lucidity I am mildly suspicious of, but he did gain some points for resisting to change his vote to adam when the day could have ended at any time

This leaves Echo. I can't really find anything that makes me believe he is innocent. adam also pointed out his different behaviour here, which is also a factor.

EDIT: strager, adam said in the post that I linked in my last sentence that he scanned himself and got Innocent

strager wrote:

Also, adam, your investigations results would be reeeeeeeally helpful now.

Ignore that, I missed a post.

EDIT: 0_o, yeah, I noticed. ;P

Lucidity can you please change your avatar to something not female so I stop calling you "she"

0_o wrote:

Derekku I have a good feeling about (probably because of the twilight brownie weirdness)

Meh, I don't. I wouldn't mind him being lynched D1, unless he did have some aux power.

0_o wrote:

Lucidity I am mildly suspicious of, but he did gain some points for resisting to change his vote to adam when the day could have ended at any time

Wasn't adam already the one to lynch before Lucidity voted? Voting for adam wouldn't do anything, ignoring future actions (e.g. your vote on me). She did, however, allow you to get a third vote on me for L-1. SFG and Derekku retracted their votes (they probably forgot they had dangerous votes on adam). Suspiciously, after you make me the vote target, you vote for Echo. Either this was to try and cover up putting me as the highest voted player for lynching, or it was so you could level the votes and have someone decide the lynch after some more discussion. (Several players would have the opportunity to do this.)

0_o wrote:

This leaves Echo. I can't really find anything that makes me believe he is innocent. adam also pointed out his different behaviour here, which is also a factor.

So it's guilty-until-proven-innocent?

strager wrote:

0_o wrote:

Derekku I have a good feeling about (probably because of the twilight brownie weirdness)

Meh, I don't. I wouldn't mind him being lynched D1, unless he did have some aux power.

Lynching a vanilla is better than an aux, but it's still worse than lynching Mafia ;p It's best to attempt to kill Mafia instead of sacrificing townies, no?

strager wrote:

0_o wrote:

Lucidity I am mildly suspicious of, but he did gain some points for resisting to change his vote to adam when the day could have ended at any time

Wasn't adam already the one to lynch before Lucidity voted?

Not according to this: http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=168449&sid=b0b9d52fa6f85dc688bde71b47a86a9d&sid=c6d55453126ea77feaf92cae138862b0#p168449. There was no official vote count though.

0_o wrote:

Lucidity can you please change your avatar to something not female so I stop calling you "she"

But Aya is my waifu :3

Lucidity wrote:

strager wrote:

0_o wrote:

Derekku I have a good feeling about (probably because of the twilight brownie weirdness)

Meh, I don't. I wouldn't mind him being lynched D1, unless he did have some aux power.

Lynching a vanilla is better than an aux, but it's still worse than lynching Mafia ;p It's best to attempt to kill Mafia instead of sacrificing townies, no?

That's what I'm trying to do. In the case that you aren't the Mafia, the loss of a Vanilla role is better than the loss of an Aux role.

Lucidity wrote:

strager wrote:

0_o wrote:

Lucidity I am mildly suspicious of, but he did gain some points for resisting to change his vote to adam when the day could have ended at any time

Wasn't adam already the one to lynch before Lucidity voted?

Not according to this: http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=168449#p168449. There was no official vote count though.

Oh, right. Sorry.

(Fixed URL, btw.)

Lucidity wrote:

0_o wrote:

Lucidity can you please change your avatar to something not female so I stop calling you "she"

But Aya is my waifu :3

You married yourself?

I'm still busy. (Plus, sleep.)

One final extention to Wed at 4:00 PM Central.

Blarghlargahalahga.

K, tons more time to discuss. \o/

cool im going to vote Lucidity because hes just playing badly and i highly doubt he has an important role other than perhaps mafia

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Lucidity wrote:

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

cool im going to vote Lucidity because hes just playing badly and i highly doubt he has an important role other than perhaps mafia

Elaborate.

if we have a cop and a doctor, any more pro-town roles in a game this small would make the town far too powerful
that means you are 1. a normal townie 2. a neutral role 3. mafia

if youre a jester then sucks for us if we lynch you. not crossing out that possibility. if youre a different neutral role we want to get rid of you. if youre a townie, its better than hitting aux, and if youre a mafia we want you dead anyways

savvy?

strager wrote:

Suspiciously, after you make me the vote target, you vote for Echo. Either this was to try and cover up putting me as the highest voted player for lynching, or it was so you could level the votes and have someone decide the lynch after some more discussion. (Several players would have the opportunity to do this.)

This was because the game could have ended at any time, and at that moment adam would have been the one lynched, so the only way to prevent that from happening would be to vote for you.

strager wrote:

So it's guilty-until-proven-innocent?

I'm pretty sure that's how this game works really =/

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Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Lucidity wrote:

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

cool im going to vote Lucidity because hes just playing badly and i highly doubt he has an important role other than perhaps mafia

Elaborate.

if we have a cop and a doctor, any more pro-town roles in a game this small would make the town far too powerful
that means you are 1. a normal townie 2. a neutral role 3. mafia

if youre a jester then sucks for us if we lynch you. not crossing out that possibility. if youre a different neutral role we want to get rid of you. if youre a townie, its better than hitting aux, and if youre a mafia we want you dead anyways

savvy?

I meant, could you please provide some examples of the bad play. At the moment I'm inclined to believe that you're basing your vote on my previous "attack" on you. (And let's face it. You were acting guilty).

Your role speculation doesn't carry a lot of merit either. Earlier in the game you were quite happy to believe that there were multiple Cops and a Doctor. Now you think that it's too imbalanced? Let's not forget that any guess on Day 1 is just that ... a complete guess. I wouldn't put too much faith in it.

I would also like to submit that we forget about a possible jester role. In a game this small he might be too likely to get lynched and win and in LS's games the Jester doesn't end the game anyway. Personally I wouldn't mind "sharing" the win with the Jester as it doesn't affect the outcome of the game at all...Anyone disagree with that?

vote count plz

<3

Vote Count

strager (2) - Echo, Lucidity
Echo (2) - adam, 0_o
Lucidity (1) - SFG
Not Voting - strager, Derekku

Lucidity wrote:

I meant, could you please provide some examples of the bad play. At the moment I'm inclined to believe that you're basing your vote on my previous "attack" on you. (And let's face it. You were acting guilty).

im basing my vote purely on the people i believe to be "cleared" and the people i believe to be valuable whether the are "cleared" or not. to be perfectly honest, when i was jester i WANTED you to attack me and was quite pleased that you noticed how guilty i was acting. why would i hold that against you now?

Your role speculation doesn't carry a lot of merit either. Earlier in the game you were quite happy to believe that there were multiple Cops and a Doctor. Now you think that it's too imbalanced? Let's not forget that any guess on Day 1 is just that ... a complete guess. I wouldn't put too much faith in it.

earlier in the game i was trying to do a very typical mafia thing - claim cop and then act sloppily on it and get caught and lynched. i justified it by saying there was a doctor, which i had no intention of believing, and i knew when adam claimed cop that he was the real cop because i wasnt really a cop. your entire reasoning here is based off of my intentionally playing badly in order to get lynched as a jester.

I would also like to submit that we forget about a possible jester role. In a game this small he might be too likely to get lynched and win and in LS's games the Jester doesn't end the game anyway. Personally I wouldn't mind "sharing" the win with the Jester as it doesn't affect the outcome of the game at all...Anyone disagree with that?

personally i strongly doubt that there is a new jester since once the presence jester is revealed, there isnt much point to the role. its meant to be a funny surprise but not much else. this is why i have no problem with lynching you btw i strongly doubt youre a jester and i also strongly doubt youre an aux, and youre the weakest remaining player.

Yeah, I don't buy that you were a Jester...

0_o and Echo shared the same reasoning as me about your fake claim, yet they're both highly respected by you...If anything strager should be classified as the "weakest" player for believing your claim to be truthful and even defending you on numerous occasions. Anyway, basing weakness on who guessed your role right is a silly measure to begin with. You're not even taking possible aux roles into account.

Anyway, I'm having doubts about the validity of your new role claim. After LS's admission of a mistake you might have grabbed the opportunity and made a new play. Congrats on getting the "Adjective" "Role" name down this time though. Here's why I think the role is fishy:

1. There is no reason for the role to exist. If who we save is based on votes from the players then what's the point in having a middleman to forward every single vote to LS? Why not send our votes to LS in the first place?
   
2. If there are 7 alive you'd need 4-7 votes (4 being highly unlikely) for any kind of majority. This could take a while to be received by you and then forwarded. Indeed, if the Mafia are sharp (or only 1 person) then they'd submit their night kill as soon as Twilight is announced. I'll go look for it later, but LS mentioned earlier in this thread that actions are carried out immediately when they're received. A doctor role that works like this would be useless.
   
3. The existence of this role makes you innocent. The need for it to be public doesn't make sense to me. Why would LS give us a publicly innocent player?
   
4. There exists the possibility that you're a 3rd party/mafia that needs a majority of our votes to kill someone. This would be a powerful twist in that we'll kill the player that we think is most valuable.

I've had a look at the supposed "confirmation" of SFG's role by LS and I don't think it's a confirmation at all. The post is here. She acknowledges that forwarding is safe. She says that we can have a vote on it and we can change to something else if we want. There's no way that she'd publicly acknowledge SFG's role though. Those posts are too general to be considered a confirmation anyway. SFG is back on my suspect list ~

Lucidity makes a good point. That role has many holes in it, making it flawed, as it is.

However, SFG could be using that to attract votes to herself if she is still the Jester.

Madness.

As I mentioned earlier, if we do have a Jester in the game I think we should just ignore it. Would everyone be OK with that?

If SFG turns out to be a Jester I think it would even benefit the town to vote her off on Day 1 as all a jester does is cause confusion and delay Mafia convictions ~_~ Sharing a win is still a win!

0_o wrote:

This leaves Echo. I can't really find anything that makes me believe he is innocent. adam also pointed out his different behaviour here, which is also a factor.

I answered for my change in behaviour here: viewtopic.php?p=168693#p168693

I am reluctant to believe SFG is some special kind of doctor. Remember in that other game where I was cop? kuwarudo ragequitted claiming townie (which was probably the truth at the time), but SFG who replaced in became mafia.

Echo wrote:

kuwarudo ragequitted claiming townie (which was probably the truth at the time), but SFG who replaced in became mafia.

Kuu was mafia. If he hadn't been, there would have only been one mafia in the game of nine players. It was me and kuu, he quit, then it was me and SFG :p

I thought it was some PM manipulation trickery on LS's part :/

Lucidity wrote:

Yeah, I don't buy that you were a Jester...

0_o and Echo shared the same reasoning as me about your fake claim, yet they're both highly respected by you...If anything strager should be classified as the "weakest" player for believing your claim to be truthful and even defending you on numerous occasions. Anyway, basing weakness on who guessed your role right is a silly measure to begin with. You're not even taking possible aux roles into account.

actually you kinda have a point on strager there. 0_o i dont really trust as much as you say i do...i just think he has a bit of a leg over you since i know how he plays. Echo, I know well enough to be able to differentiate as mafia or not by his actions once it gets to endgame, or at least i have confidence that i will know what side he is on by the time i would need to vote him were he mafia.

Anyway, I'm having doubts about the validity of your new role claim. After LS's admission of a mistake you might have grabbed the opportunity and made a new play. Congrats on getting the "Adjective" "Role" name down this time though.

hey, my original role did NOT have an adjective affixed to the front of it thankyouverymuch.

Here's why I think the role is fishy:

*There is no reason for the role to exist. If who we save is based on votes from the players then what's the point in having a middleman to forward every single vote to LS? Why not send our votes to LS in the first place?

good reason #1. if Subi suspects im cheating he can check when he is over at my place and modkill me if i lied to him. he obviously trusts me, but he ALSO left room for you guys to change it if YOU dont trust me to play a game i hold in high respect the way im supposed to. there are places to be underhanded, deceiving, misleading, yes, but im no cheater and actually rather offended that youre trying to classify me as one.

*If there are 7 alive you'd need 4-7 votes (4 being highly unlikely) for any kind of majority. This could take a while to be received by you and then forwarded. Indeed, if the Mafia are sharp (or only 1 person) then they'd submit their night kill as soon as Twilight is announced. I'll go look for it later, but LS mentioned earlier in this thread that actions are carried out immediately when they're received. A doctor role that works like this would be useless.

1. there will be six alive if we lynch someone. that means that as long as at least two people vote for the same person, i can add my vote to that and protect that person. (6/2 = 3)
2. LS said that DAY actions occur immediately. He also specifically said that TWILIGHT actions function like normal twilight - if he gets all of them in early, he'll start Day early, but other actions get precedence over NK. Nice try though.

*The existence of this role makes you innocent. The need for it to be public doesn't make sense to me. Why would LS give us a publicly innocent player?

1. I'm exactly as safe as any other role claim here is. you can choose to believe me or not and the only way for you guys to know who everyone voted to protect is to ask in-thread, in which case if i were mafia i could read it and use it anyways.
2. I did NOT make up this role, im just acting on it, so if you have complaints about it bring them to Subi kthnxbai

*There exists the possibility that you're a 3rd party/mafia that needs a majority of our votes to kill someone. This would be a powerful twist in that we'll kill the player that we think is most valuable.

ok cool, theres a lot of possibilities out there and im sure this is one of them. its also possible that im Spartacus and now that ive claimed it i can magically acquire the roles of Doctor, Cop, Ninja, and Traitor and do whatever the heck i feel like. How much do you want to think about possibility?
Oh hey heres a good one! what if im some new kind of role that mindwipes everyone that sends a pm to me and makes them my minions~ i could even minionize the MAFIA that way and instantly win. thatd be cool. Thats a possibility.
Actually i think this falls under the realm of "giving the GM ideas" so ill stop now cus i think ive made my point.

I've had a look at the supposed "confirmation" of SFG's role by LS and I don't think it's a confirmation at all. The post is here. She acknowledges that forwarding is safe. She says that we can have a vote on it and we can change to something else if we want. There's no way that she'd publicly acknowledge SFG's role though. Those posts are too general to be considered a confirmation anyway. SFG is back on my suspect list ~

congratulations, you have figured out that Subi is a good enough GM that he wont screw the game up if people start fishing for confirmations. again, i think its kind of insulting to doubt the ability of your GM but hey, you have the freedom to flame up a storm and all we'll do is edit/delete/ban things that get overly out of hand. *sarcastic round of applause*

strager wrote:

Lucidity makes a good point. That role has many holes in it, making it flawed, as it is.

However, SFG could be using that to attract votes to herself if she is still the Jester.

um no i dont expect you guys to lynch your doctor. i suppose i could be estimating wrong, but that happens a lot in this game on any strategy.

Lucidity wrote:

As I mentioned earlier, if we do have a Jester in the game I think we should just ignore it. Would everyone be OK with that?

If SFG turns out to be a Jester I think it would even benefit the town to vote her off on Day 1 as all a jester does is cause confusion and delay Mafia convictions ~_~ Sharing a win is still a win!

im NOT a freaking JESTER ANYMORE. lynching me will NOT make me win. it will just make the TOWN less likely to lose.

Echo wrote:

I am reluctant to believe SFG is some special kind of doctor. Remember in that other game where I was cop? kuwarudo ragequitted claiming townie (which was probably the truth at the time), but SFG who replaced in became mafia.

well yknow theres not much i can do with the role ive been given other than try to fly with it. put yourself in my shoes, what if YOUR role suddenly got changed into some weird thing like this. i dont see what other course of action there was other than perhaps to pretend im a townie now and ignore the ability to help the town, which i think is kinda dumb.

Your posts are quite entertaining I'll give you that. You don't read other posts well though. It's time for beddy-byes for me now, but I have a few comments which I'll post tomorrow.

Also, LadySuburu is a guy? Moar confusing nick please.

So it seems like everyone except for SFG is a guy. Ew what a sausagefest *jumps off the fagboat*

Derekku Chan wrote:

So it seems like everyone except for SFG is a guy. Ew what a sausagefest *jumps off the fagboat*

Welcome to the internet

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

1. there will be six alive if we lynch someone. that means that as long as at least two people vote for the same person, i can add my vote to that and protect that person. (6/2 = 3)

Three still isn't majority.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

2. LS said that DAY actions occur immediately. He also specifically said that TWILIGHT actions function like normal twilight - if he gets all of them in early, he'll start Day early, but other actions get precedence over NK. Nice try though.

Nice try yourself.

Derekku Chan wrote:

So it seems like everyone except for SFG is a guy. Ew what a sausagefest *jumps off the fagboat*

I don't have a sausage.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

strager wrote:

Lucidity makes a good point. That role has many holes in it, making it flawed, as it is.

However, SFG could be using that to attract votes to herself if she is still the Jester.

um no i dont expect you guys to lynch your doctor. i suppose i could be estimating wrong, but that happens a lot in this game on any strategy.

WIFOM, right?

Quick interference here.

In this game (and this game only), unless a role can be blocked by another, the actions will take place intantly.

Doctor protection blocks Mafia Kill.

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Saturos-fangirl wrote:

im NOT a freaking JESTER ANYMORE. lynching me will NOT make me win. it will just make the TOWN less likely to lose.

Let's lynch her then >:D

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

when you really get to the bottom of anything its 100% WIFOM.

I disagree that everything is wifom. Wifom is fairly specific. For example, some instances of circular reasoning is not actually wifom.

Will make another post after some quick analysis.

edit: analysis ran into lecture time, back in 4h

Echo wrote:

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

im NOT a freaking JESTER ANYMORE. lynching me will NOT make me win. it will just make the TOWN less likely to lose.

Let's lynch her then >:D

okay i just failed at life, the universe, and everything

42/0

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Nice one.

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Derekku Chan wrote:

Echo wrote:

I've got my analysis nearly sorted, but need to bus home before I can post them. eta 1h

ffff Echo you're so cool and organized stop it :<

Seriously.

Notes, sorted, ANALYSIS, ...

I figured something else out.
The thing that makes me uneasy about strager is he's quite often just a yes man.

At the moment, I'm leaning on 0_o and Derek being mafia.

Unvote
vote 0_o

Firstly, my "analysis" narrowed down the candidates for mafia to about 3-4 people. From there, I found out that 0_o has voted SFG, Lucidity, strager and me. Other evidence aside, vote hopping day 1 is a big scumtell. The only people he hasn't voted on are Derek and adam. At the moment I'm reluctant to think that adam is mafia, hence my list is narrowed down to the two I stated.

I also believe at the moment that his "Twilight Townie" role claim is a lie.

I won't be revealing my method of analysis in case the mafia try to "trick the system"

adam2046 wrote:

I figured something else out.
The thing that makes me uneasy about strager is he's quite often just a yes man.

A yes man? Not sure what you mean.

Echo, I'm sure you mean "0_o or Derek" and not "0_o and Derek" for being Mafia?

Mod: Below are not official votes by me. Please ignore them.

On 0_o's votes:

1. Vote: SFG: Pretty weak reason to vote for someone, and only one was given.
2. Vote: Lucidity: 0_o tries to save adam, who he believes is likely a Cop, from being lynched by the deadline.
3. Vote: strager: Either I'm missing something or 0_o's vote against me doesn't have any real reason. I didn't look too deeply into this, though; probably showed his suspicions of me in a post way earlier. Also, 0_o seems to try and befriend/buddy with Lucidity in 0_o's next post by giving Lucidity his trust in his own vote. o_0
4. Vote: Echo: 0_o goes against his little plan described in his previous vote post. Wha? O_o Pretty wishy-washy (if that's how you use the term).

In short, 0_o's first vote is weak (+1), his second is trying to save an important (claimed) role (-0.5), his third attempts to buddy and is pretty cautious-sounding (+2), and his fourth goes against what he said he'd do (even if it is in my favour) (+0.5). (Number thingies I've seen Wojjan do; just a simple metric I'm not going to use as a reason to vote for someone.)

-_-

strager wrote:

Vote: SFG: Pretty weak reason to vote for someone, and only one was given.

Actually I think this is a good reason to vote for someone. If she was the twilight cop she would have claimed "Twilight Cop", and not simply "Cop". And guess what? I was right.
Oh yeah, Echo found this suspicious as well.

Vote: strager: Either I'm missing something or 0_o's vote against me doesn't have any real reason. I didn't look too deeply into this, though; probably showed his suspicions of me in a post way earlier.

I already explained this...
I WASN'T suspicious of you (as I already said here) , but the game was an hour or two past the deadline, which meant LS could have showed up any minute, which meant if I didn't vote for you then adam would be lynched if the day ended.

Also, 0_o seems to try and befriend/buddy with Lucidity in 0_o's next post by giving Lucidity his trust in his own vote.

..what? I don't understand the argument here, I asked him about his thoughts about lynching Echo instead of you. How does this mean I'm trying to "befriend" him?

Vote: Echo: 0_o goes against his little plan described in his previous vote post. Wha? O_o Pretty wishy-washy (if that's how you use the term).

My plan was to keep adam from getting lynched. SFG and Derekku unvoted adam. Plan complete. I now had no reason to vote for you, so I unvoted and voted for Echo, who I already said before I wanted to vote for. This is wishy-washy?

Echo wrote:

The only people he hasn't voted on are Derek and adam. At the moment I'm reluctant to think that adam is mafia, hence my list is narrowed down to the two I stated.

How come everyone who I have voted for has been cleared by you? If I am the vote-hopping mafia you claim I am, I could very well (and probably would) have voted my mafia partner at some point in order to distance myself from them, a very common and basic mafia tactic. You already know this, since I know for a fact that you have voted your fellow mafia before as well.

aaaand that's all I think?

0_o wrote:

strager wrote:

Vote: SFG: Pretty weak reason to vote for someone, and only one was given.

Actually I think this is a good reason to vote for someone. If she was the twilight cop she would have claimed "Twilight Cop", and not simply "Cop". And guess what? I was right.
Oh yeah, Echo found this suspicious as well.

That doesn't mean I do.

I could guess there are six Mafia and be right.

0_o wrote:

Vote: strager: Either I'm missing something or 0_o's vote against me doesn't have any real reason. I didn't look too deeply into this, though; probably showed his suspicions of me in a post way earlier.

I already explained this...
I WASN'T suspicious of you (as I already said here) , but the game was an hour or two past the deadline, which meant LS could have showed up any minute, which meant if I didn't vote for you then adam would be lynched if the day ended.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry. I forgot you did this twice; once by voting Lucidity, and again by voting me. I must have been reading another post, too, because in that very post you explain why. My bad. >_<

0_o wrote:

Also, 0_o seems to try and befriend/buddy with Lucidity in 0_o's next post by giving Lucidity his trust in his own vote.

..what? I don't understand the argument here, I asked him about his thoughts about lynching Echo instead of you. How does this mean I'm trying to "befriend" him?

You're trying to help her in her vote. "Why don't you (we) vote for Echo instead?" basically. If this was your intention, your previous post about voting for Echo if Lucidity did was an excuse for having Echo lynched ("I warned Lucidity and she knew the dangers blah blah").

Or, of course, you're doing as you say and believe protecting adam is more important than killing the Mafia. (I do understand that protecting adam is of lesser risk.)

0_o wrote:

Vote: Echo: 0_o goes against his little plan described in his previous vote post. Wha? O_o Pretty wishy-washy (if that's how you use the term).

My plan was to keep adam from getting lynched. SFG and Derekku unvoted adam. Plan complete. I now had no reason to vote for you, so I unvoted and voted for Echo, who I already said before I wanted to vote for. This is wishy-washy?

Yeah, sorry. Because I missed your plan, I missed this.

0_o wrote:

my mafia partner

I thought it had been discussed enough that two Mafia is verrry unlikely.

Are you admitting you have a partner? If so, who is it? =]

0_o wrote:

How come everyone who I have voted for has been cleared by you? If I am the vote-hopping mafia you claim I am, I could very well (and probably would) have voted my mafia partner at some point in order to distance myself from them, a very common and basic mafia tactic. You already know this, since I know for a fact that you have voted your fellow mafia before as well.

I would vote for my fellow mafia only and only if I knew I could get away with it - eg. most strong players are already dead or are not playing.

Even though the motive for voting a mafia buddy is wifom, you don't have the guts to do that, especially in a game like this with so many semi-experienced players.

strager wrote:

Echo, I'm sure you mean "0_o or Derek" and not "0_o and Derek" for being Mafia?

I mean what I say. You don't know what I'm thinking, please don't assume you do.

You seem mighty eager to clarify my vote but to what end? There was no need to clarify anything. You just jump in, dump a whole heap of posts on 0_o based on my suspicions?

Also, your post alone would have been enough to justify a vote from you against 0_o, yet you just posted and left it at that. Again, the point?

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Echo, I'm sure you mean "0_o or Derek" and not "0_o and Derek" for being Mafia?

I mean what I say. You don't know what I'm thinking, please don't assume you do.

I didn't try to say I knew what you were thinking. I was wondering if you made a mistake. You didn't have to answer so rudely.

Echo wrote:

You seem mighty eager to clarify my vote but to what end? There was no need to clarify anything. You just jump in, dump a whole heap of posts on 0_o based on my suspicions?

So you're saying I can't analyze because you did it for me?

Echo wrote:

Also, your post alone would have been enough to justify a vote from you against 0_o, yet you just posted and left it at that. Again, the point?

I like let people defend themselves before voting. With such hasty voting lately (making me a bit excited and kinda scared, with votes being thrown everywhere, and I have no idea where the lynch is to land) I don't want to be making a huge mistake. Also, I know I'm not too logical this late at night; as you can see, I did fudge up, and 0_o corrected me. If I had voted then (which I was considering) I would have unvoted after 0_o mentioned those things.

Also, people have different levels at which they will make a vote.

The point is so I can see your argument a bit more clearly to see if I agree or not. Leaning toward not.

Not that you can't analyse, but you're doing so only after I said something. Sounds/looks/feels really unnatural

strager wrote:

You didn't have to answer so rudely.

Manipulation of feelings is a part of the game. People who have stronger emotions when posting tend to let out more information than usual.

I'm only saying this because I really don't want any hard feelings due to these games.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Lucidity wrote:

Yeah, I don't buy that you were a Jester...

0_o and Echo shared the same reasoning as me about your fake claim, yet they're both highly respected by you...If anything strager should be classified as the "weakest" player for believing your claim to be truthful and even defending you on numerous occasions. Anyway, basing weakness on who guessed your role right is a silly measure to begin with. You're not even taking possible aux roles into account.

actually you kinda have a point on strager there. 0_o i dont really trust as much as you say i do...i just think he has a bit of a leg over you since i know how he plays. Echo, I know well enough to be able to differentiate as mafia or not by his actions once it gets to endgame, or at least i have confidence that i will know what side he is on by the time i would need to vote him were he mafia.

I'm glad we sorted out the bs "weakest player" nonsense. So you're voting me because you don't know how I play? That's a good reason. Yes that's sarcasm.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Here's why I think the role is fishy:

*There is no reason for the role to exist. If who we save is based on votes from the players then what's the point in having a middleman to forward every single vote to LS? Why not send our votes to LS in the first place?

good reason #1. if Subi suspects im cheating he can check when he is over at my place and modkill me if i lied to him. he obviously trusts me, but he ALSO left room for you guys to change it if YOU dont trust me to play a game i hold in high respect the way im supposed to. there are places to be underhanded, deceiving, misleading, yes, but im no cheater and actually rather offended that youre trying to classify me as one.

I never implied that you were a cheater. I pointed out how a middleman is rather useless to have. Reread my post if you didn't get it. It's funny how things that you have on your mind tend to come out in posts and affect what you see when you read other posts. Feeling guilty much?

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

*If there are 7 alive you'd need 4-7 votes (4 being highly unlikely) for any kind of majority. This could take a while to be received by you and then forwarded. Indeed, if the Mafia are sharp (or only 1 person) then they'd submit their night kill as soon as Twilight is announced. I'll go look for it later, but LS mentioned earlier in this thread that actions are carried out immediately when they're received. A doctor role that works like this would be useless.

1. there will be six alive if we lynch someone. that means that as long as at least two people vote for the same person, i can add my vote to that and protect that person. (6/2 = 3)
2. LS said that DAY actions occur immediately. He also specifically said that TWILIGHT actions function like normal twilight - if he gets all of them in early, he'll start Day early, but other actions get precedence over NK. Nice try though.

1. As pointed out by strager, you need 4 for a majority.

2. Also pointed out by strager, it wasn't restricted to DAY actions only. LS clarified that the Doctor's PM will be waited for before the Mafia get theire kill in a later post, but your reason was made up. Why would you need to make things up~

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

*The existence of this role makes you innocent. The need for it to be public doesn't make sense to me. Why would LS give us a publicly innocent player?

1. I'm exactly as safe as any other role claim here is. you can choose to believe me or not and the only way for you guys to know who everyone voted to protect is to ask in-thread, in which case if i were mafia i could read it and use it anyways.
2. I did NOT make up this role, im just acting on it, so if you have complaints about it bring them to Subi kthnxbai

1. Relates to my issue with the role being redundant. It is also a nice way for you to obtain information from the town if you're not who you claim to be.

2. I'll take your word for it.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

*There exists the possibility that you're a 3rd party/mafia that needs a majority of our votes to kill someone. This would be a powerful twist in that we'll kill the player that we think is most valuable.

ok cool, theres a lot of possibilities out there and im sure this is one of them. its also possible that im Spartacus and now that ive claimed it i can magically acquire the roles of Doctor, Cop, Ninja, and Traitor and do whatever the heck i feel like. How much do you want to think about possibility?
Oh hey heres a good one! what if im some new kind of role that mindwipes everyone that sends a pm to me and makes them my minions~ i could even minionize the MAFIA that way and instantly win. thatd be cool. Thats a possibility.
Actually i think this falls under the realm of "giving the GM ideas" so ill stop now cus i think ive made my point.

I don't think the role was such a big stretch. The reason I listed it as a possibility is because a number of things point towards the role being viable. I'm not suggesting we vote you based purely on that. It's great to see that you're getting so angry about it though. A common response when confronted about something when you're guilty..

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

I've had a look at the supposed "confirmation" of SFG's role by LS and I don't think it's a confirmation at all. The post is here. She acknowledges that forwarding is safe. She says that we can have a vote on it and we can change to something else if we want. There's no way that she'd publicly acknowledge SFG's role though. Those posts are too general to be considered a confirmation anyway. SFG is back on my suspect list ~

congratulations, you have figured out that Subi is a good enough GM that he wont screw the game up if people start fishing for confirmations. again, i think its kind of insulting to doubt the ability of your GM but hey, you have the freedom to flame up a storm and all we'll do is edit/delete/ban things that get overly out of hand. *sarcastic round of applause*

A total freak out to a misinterpreted post. I never meant that LS was a bad GM. I went to bed at page 12 and woke up at page 19. I had a lot to catch up and it was close to the deadline so I skimmed the posts rather hurriedly. At first I thought LS basically confirmed your role with his post, and I mentioned it in a post somewhere. strager said the same thing (That you were cleared). When I reread it I realised that your role wasn't confirmed and I obviously pointed it out, because I claimed otherwise previously. If I did not point it out it would be really weird for me to add you to my suspect list, wouldn't it?

I'm not sure where I flamed. Could you point it out? You're overreacting way too much for my liking...The signs of a guilty mind. You're putting words in my mouth, which I don't like and I don't think is particularly helpful.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Lucidity wrote:

As I mentioned earlier, if we do have a Jester in the game I think we should just ignore it. Would everyone be OK with that?

If SFG turns out to be a Jester I think it would even benefit the town to vote her off on Day 1 as all a jester does is cause confusion and delay Mafia convictions ~_~ Sharing a win is still a win!

im NOT a freaking JESTER ANYMORE. lynching me will NOT make me win. it will just make the TOWN less likely to lose.

That post had nothing to do with you really...All I'm saying is that if we have a Jester in this game, we shouldn't worry about voting him/her off.

Also, by your own admission lynching you will help the town, so
Unvote.
Vote: SFG.

strager has made me less suspicious of him somehow-.-

Derekku please post more?

Mod: Vote count please :<

ok you know what? fuck this game. Subi, modkill me. i dont care if it hurts the fucking town. i should never have joined this game especially since after the reasons for my requesting modkill occurred i completely lost my head in every game im participating in and am now dying EVERYWHERE.

You can replace me if you want i guess but hey, you wanted me to at least try and i FUCKING tried and i cant FUCKING deal with it because i keep losing my FUCKING HEAD.

no offense to the rest of you guys.

mod: requesting modkill on no uncertain terms. if the ones i have already given are not sufficient i will gladly go out and tell theories on this game to the entire world until such a time as you kill me.

Saturos-Fangirl - Neutral Survivor - Modkilled Day 1.

It is now Twilight 1. Twilight ends Friday at 11:00 AM central.

PMS + internets = ?

z0z for calling your bluff..

Anyone modkilled's role will instantly change to Neutral Survivor and will lose regardless. The modkilled role is not the origional role, and you will not find out the origional role until game end.

Twilight 1? Great.. mafia gets a free kill ._.;

strager wrote:

You're trying to help her in her vote. "Why don't you (we) vote for Echo instead?" basically. If this was your intention, your previous post about voting for Echo if Lucidity did was an excuse for having Echo lynched ("I warned Lucidity and she knew the dangers blah blah").

You make it sound like I said "Lucidity, I think you should trust me and vote for Echo with me," but that wasn't the case at all.
His vote for you was given with no justification (which is interesting since that's exactly what she accuses us of a few posts later), so in my eyes that vote for you was just an attempt to save his own skin. Once the danger of a Lucidity lynch was eliminated (since I unvoted), he wouldn't have had that reason to vote for you any more, so I wanted to know if he still had reasons for voting for you, or if he possibly found Echo more suspicious, and didn't vote for him before since there was no point.
Read the post, I was requesting her thoughts on an Echo lynch, not requesting that she lynch Echo.

Or, of course, you're doing as you say and believe protecting adam is more important than killing the Mafia. (I do understand that protecting adam is of lesser risk.)

I'm not sure you aren't mafia, but at the time I had to choose between one of you, and you were the obvious choice (no offense )

0_o wrote:

my mafia partner

I thought it had been discussed enough that two Mafia is verrry unlikely.

Well for one, that was in response to Echo saying that I wouldn't vote for my "partner" if I were mafia, so I was going with this hypothetical situation.
Also, I looked it up on MafiaScum, and I found out that there actually are newbie games with 7 people, 2 mafia. So it is possible.

Are you admitting you have a partner? If so, who is it? =]

Your mom

EDIT: I really have to lrn2preview -_-
Well then.. that's interesting.
Gotta say though awesome role claim SFG, I had no idea you could think up something like that

Derekku wrote:

Twilight 1? Great.. mafia gets a free kill ._.;

Actually, SFG's death was our favour. She was a Survivor, which meant she wins when she is the only one left. This basically means she was another mafia group without a nightkill. Of course this was also in favour of the mafia, but we didn't lose anything by losing SFG.
blaaaaaaaa

LadySuburu wrote:

Anyone modkilled's role will instantly change to Neutral Survivor and will lose regardless. The modkilled role is not the origional role, and you will not find out the origional role until game end.

Could you please reconsider? We gain no information from Day 1 like we would have if we had lynched someone :/ Why does a modkill hide the identity, but not a normal kill? ;o

Hope you feel better soon SFG. Also, lol internets.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Lucidity wrote:

LadySuburu wrote:

Anyone modkilled's role will instantly change to Neutral Survivor and will lose regardless. The modkilled role is not the origional role, and you will not find out the origional role until game end.

Could you please reconsider? We gain no information from Day 1 like we would have if we had lynched someone :/ Why does a modkill hide the identity, but not a normal kill? ;o

Hope you feel better soon SFG. Also, lol internets.

I'll say this much: She was not mafia, so no mafia have been killed.

why can't I read

LadySuburu wrote:

Lucidity wrote:

LadySuburu wrote:

Anyone modkilled's role will instantly change to Neutral Survivor and will lose regardless. The modkilled role is not the origional role, and you will not find out the origional role until game end.

Could you please reconsider? We gain no information from Day 1 like we would have if we had lynched someone :/ Why does a modkill hide the identity, but not a normal kill? ;o

Hope you feel better soon SFG. Also, lol internets.

I'll say this much: She was not mafia, so no mafia have been killed.

Bleh, I guess that's better than nothing, but why should we suffer because she committed suicide :<

0_o wrote:

strager wrote:

You're trying to help her in her vote. "Why don't you (we) vote for Echo instead?" basically. If this was your intention, your previous post about voting for Echo if Lucidity did was an excuse for having Echo lynched ("I warned Lucidity and she knew the dangers blah blah").

[blah blah stuff I know blah]
Read the post, I was requesting her thoughts on an Echo lynch, not requesting that she lynch Echo.

Yes, and to me, it sounded like you were somewhat nudging her into voting for Echo.

0_o wrote:

Or, of course, you're doing as you say and believe protecting adam is more important than killing the Mafia. (I do understand that protecting adam is of lesser risk.)

I'm not sure you aren't mafia, but at the time I had to choose between one of you, and you were the obvious choice (no offense )

Right.

0_o wrote:

0_o wrote:

my mafia partner

I thought it had been discussed enough that two Mafia is verrry unlikely.

[...]
Also, I looked it up on MafiaScum, and I found out that there actually are newbie games with 7 people, 2 mafia. So it is possible.

Hmm... Pie E7, which seems to be the most tested two-Mafia five-Townie game I see, is apparently imbalanced. I'm not sure if having a Day Cop is enough to balanced it. I'm not against imbalanced games, but I'm not sure everyone isn't (including LS).

0_o wrote:

Gotta say though awesome role claim SFG, I had no idea you could think up something like that

Full of holes. x_x

Lucidity wrote:

Bleh, I guess that's better than nothing, but why should we suffer because she committed suicide :<

That'd be cool if the Mafia suicided as well. xD

I think that the town should still get a lynch for today. We would have gotten one had there not been extensions, but now town is down one player and the mafia will get an even bigger advantage with their free kill tonight. It might not matter as much if SFG actually does hold a third-party role, but whatever. I'm just stating my opinion that most of us probably agree with =/

EDIT: Not saying you're hosting badly or anything, LS, but I'm not sure how modkills are handled. This is the first one I've seen in mafia =<

Derekku Chan wrote:

I think that the town should still get a lynch for today. We would have gotten one had there not been extensions, but now townie is down one player and the mafia will get an even bigger advantage with their free kill tonight. It might not matter as much if SFG actually does hold a third-party role, but whatever. I'm just stating my opinion that most of us probably agree with =/

Actually, if we still had to lynch someone and there were 2 mafia, then we would be at LyLo: there would be 4 town and 2 mafia, and mafia wins in the case of a tie

It depends on the roles still in play though...If it's 3-2 and the Mafia fail to kill someone that night the town could still win...

Lucidity wrote:

It depends on the roles still in play though...If it's 3-2 and the Mafia fail to kill someone that night the town could still win...

Yes, but the odds aren't in favour of that happening.

seeing as adam's "Day Cop", there ought to be a "Night (Twilight)" Cop out there somewhere

Echo wrote:

seeing as adam's "Day Cop", there ought to be a "Night (Twilight)" Cop out there somewhere

That isn't what you implied earlier.

Derekku, read the rules:

Rules wrote:

13. A modkill will end the Day.

Basically, the mod kill counts as a Lynch, except the role of SFG isn't known (sadly).

I think LS's being generous here a bit, as she extended the deadline and stuff.

Mod: It's Twilight 1, isn't it? Can you edit the topic's title, please?

if you guys didnt want me dead you shouldnt have tried to kill me Bah!

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This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Derekku Chan wrote:

strager wrote:

Derekku, read the rules:

Uh, you're one to talk Mr. tl;dring-the WWG-rules

=]

Do want Mafia to kill faster so we can discuss and do something D:

In theory this game gives us the opportunity to discuss the day's lynch during Twilight, but that didn't happen -.- So it's just like a normal night in any other game?

Uh, we are discussion now, kinda.

Currently, we don't have much more info that in Day 1. We don't have to decide on a lynch just yet, and it's probably better to wait until Day 2 to do that, where we have more information (whether it's the role of the NK'd person, or if no kill was made because there is a Doctor, or something like that; and also the results of any Night actions by aux roles such as a possible Twilight/Night Cop which Echo suggests).

EDIT: Just realized you kinda said that in your first sentence, Lucidity. =X

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@strager: i changed my mind

Lucidity wrote:

Also, for some reason when I post outside of "Forum Games/Random" the site says I'm logged out and doesn't allow me to post. I then have to login again, but as soon as I click submit it says I'm logged out again.

Make sure you didn't block cookies for certain URL's. (Do any major browsers do that? Most do by domain name...)

Make sure cookies are enabled at all, too. If there's "sid=" followed by a bunch of hex digits, cookies are probably disabled.

Echo wrote:

@strager: i changed my mind

K.

I would only think there are more than one Cop if there are more than one Mafia. (Is that the right verb form? Guh, English, and other languages with weird conjugations.)

Because I'm sticking with my one-Mafia look on things, that means I have a one-Cop look on things, too.

strager wrote:

I would only think there are more than one Cop if there are more than one Mafia. (Is that the right verb form? Guh, English, and other languages with weird conjugations.)

I think the only problem is that "are" should be "is". So...

"I would only think there is more than one Cop if there is more than one Mafia." The reason is that you only have singular nouns thatt you're talking about in the sentence, so you can't use "are".

Derekku Chan wrote:

strager wrote:

I would only think there are more than one Cop if there are more than one Mafia. (Is that the right verb form? Guh, English, and other languages with weird conjugations.)

I think the only problem is that "are" should be "is". So...

"I would only think there is more than one Cop if there is more than one Mafia." The reason is that you only have singular nouns thatt you're talking about in the sentence, so you can't use "are".

Yeah, I was trying to figure out if it was 'is' or 'are.'

well its a good thing thats all sorted out

If I'm alive tomorrow, I'm probably mafia and you should probably hang me.

Vote: Echo

It's still Day 1, right?

strager wrote:

It's still Day 1, right?

It's been Twilight since SFG died you trigger-happy maniac

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

It's still Day 1, right?

It's been Twilight since SFG died

Sarcasm.

Echo wrote:

you trigger-happy maniac

Wha? I'm not a Vig! O_o

I was referring to the vote, thanks for claiming vig though

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Actually Echo is the jester.

adam2046 wrote:

Actually Echo is the jester.

You jest.

Echo, did your . key break? Must be hard to code without it.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

*Twilight passed over, with no night coming. This strange occurance was compounded by the death of not only adam2046, who was apperently fed massive amounts of pills...*

adam2046 - Naive DayCop - Killed in Twilight.

*But by the death of Lucidity, the one who fed adam the pills.*

Lucidity - Insane Doctor - Killed in Twilight.

-------------------------

It is now Day 2. Day 2 ends at the end of saturday, central.

With 4 alive it's 3 to lynch.

Edit: Fix'd stuff.