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Performance Points

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magicali
9 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
magicali

Liutprando wrote:

magicali wrote:

I have a question about this PP stuff, i play oftenly and i have nearly 2,000 pp on my account but my girlfriend plays almost as good as I but she has only 24 pp thats ridiculous, i think it's bugged since the other day when we came back to osu from like 1 year or more break our PP from 20s jumped to 300s 600s and but on my girlfriend it dropped back to 20s again, is this normal? i tried playing some songs on her account, the ones i think they have a big influence on the PP but they didn't do anything at all.

What can it be? It is outdated or what?

Her username is: itazuranakiss

I will post with her account later
I checked itazuranakiss account and she has 1,447pp not 24 o_O
I would like you to re-check that, because her profile auto shows Taiko instead of osu (She played alot of Taiko and she is pretty good at it) but the thing is maybe the performance points are not updating at all with the Taiko being the default profile for her, i don't know.

Remember im talking about osu here.

And for the other post, Yeah i believe PP system is a great way to show the "skill" of each players.

So once again if you guys can check her profile again and take a look at a couple of recently played songs you will realize that the songs that she is able to do are much harder that what a 20s PP player can do.
Actually i did some research and the player just 1 rank above in one song had 1100 PP, for the song USATEI also the guy one rank higher (for like 25 points in the song) had also 1210PP.
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
PP only gets recorded if you get at least rank 500 on a song.
looking at her recent plays and the scores she got on them, they are most likely not within the 500 ranks.
akrolsmir
606 posts
Joined November 2010
akrolsmir
The bulk of your 1928 pp comes from a single map (given the huge jump from 300 pp to 1900), which means that you managed to do well (top 500 with high accuracy) on a reasonably hard map. Apparently, your girlfriend hasn't yet done this.

pp is skewed in favor of your best plays, which means that a few (or one, in your case) high ranking scores will have a huge impact on your pp. See the infographic (http://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/images/d/d6/Perf ... points.png) for more info.
magicali
9 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
magicali
Thanks that last answer was what i was looking for, btw how do i get to know "which song" was the one that boosted my PP

nvm i found it.

Btw how does someone "drops" on PP?
G0r
389 posts
Joined September 2011
G0r
It appears that you lose PP when people start out performing your score on songs that you have played. However, it's unclear exactly how much you lose for what, or how badly they have to beat you to create a change.

Any song that you rank above 500 on should affect your PP, but it is unclear how much, and sometimes it looks like you will lose PP when the system recalculates, if you're not performing better than everyone else is.
TenDesires_old
24 posts
Joined December 2011
TenDesires_old
Recent scores have the most influence on PP, this is why the amount is gradually reduced over time.

G0r's answer is right too, but I'm pretty sure that the changes on the PP are very minor, unless you rank on a very recent map with an average score (then you get quickly pushed back to 500+).
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
getting a score knocked out of top 500 is a pretty big hit on pp, depending how much you have! losing a #1 hurts a lot too but i don't think you have many of those xD
-Athena-
1,414 posts
Joined June 2011
-Athena-
There's no doubting this is a good system, my only small complaint is that only top 500 scores are taken into account, therefore encouraging people to play less than insane diffs with mods to get the pp, they get very little, but it adds up to a lot.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

^That needs to be removed.
-Athena-
1,414 posts
Joined June 2011
-Athena-
Ahhhh and that. Oh my I forgot.
Sorun
234 posts
Joined October 2010
Sorun
....................
Last edited by Sorun , edited 1 time in total.
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy

JappyBabes wrote:


^That needs to be removed.
That might be fine, it's so damn easy to get VERY high ranks on VERY old maps... like try any super old map on DT, you'll get top 6 easily and get tons of pp because most scores there are damn old so getting a high rank is easy, plus it's not likely that many players will go outrank you there since it's a map which gets something like a few plays per week.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
It's not talking about date of map. It's talking about how long ago you got your SCORE on that map which is why it should be removed. There are some seriously skilled players hanging in the #100-200s just because they got some amazing scores pre-July '11.
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe
I think the reason it is there is to keep scores relevant. ie. an old score doesn't exactly represent your current skill. I honestly don't care whether it's there or not, just stating that's probably the reason and it's a good enough reason for me ^^
shaneoyo
41 posts
Joined October 2010
shaneoyo
So am I correct in understanding that cookie gets 0 peppy points for his #1 on Cry For Eternity (just as an example)?
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
If how it's explained in the picture is how it actually works and he doesn't improve any scores nor plays until 2013 he won't have a rank.
Yuugo
129 posts
Joined July 2011
Yuugo
The inactivity drain won't go further down than half your original. It was stated in a pp thread by peppy somewhere and I think it's on the wiki too (Wow I'm lazy). So Cookizie won't get 'unranked' but he will start losing pp soon enough to make place for the current pros.
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe
JappyBabes, look at bikko his last score would have put him at no "giving" pp last month. He's still top 100. He will lose pp, but the scores still remain to some degree i suppose.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire
There's probably thresholds, relative to your current pp, at which scores "give" or "don't give" pp. Bikko's probably lost half his pp on each individual score but the threshold would mean they still count in numbers and kick his score up to the number it is now. Otherwise White Wolf would be much higher than he is in pp score.
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
pp gain is logarithmic, it's harder and harder to gain as you have more... i'm thinking 7000 is probably the max, at least until there's more plays in the system xD
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Winshley

MillhioreF wrote:

losing a #1 hurts a lot too but i don't think you have many of those xD
For my case:
- Initial pp was around 4,700pp (forgot what it was, exactly)
- Played Klaus Badelt - He's a Pirate [Hard] and scored rank #1 with only HD+FL, Performance jumped up to 5,093pp
- Played some random maps until having Performance around 5,105pp
- rockleejkooo took my #1 on the said map above, Performance dropped heavily down to 5,009pp D: (you can see a noticeable jump-down spike at my performance graph lol)
- I re-took #1 again on the map with HD+HR+FL, and Performance raised up to 5,134pp

@Wishy22: That beatmap I mentioned above was ranked since 2008.
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
It's not that MAPS stop giving pp after a year, it's that scores that you beat won't give you any pp unless it was set less than a year ago.

If I go #1 rank a really old map with a decent score, I get no pp, because the records I beat were old.
If someone else beats my score and takes #1, he gets pp because the record he beat was set recently.
In order for me to benefit from this, I have to keep my #1 by beating the new score, getting even more pp than the guy who beat my old score.

pp is gained by maintaining high ranking spots instead of getting as many as possible. The more ranks you sustain, the better your pp will be, but if you lose a rank on one of your maps, your pp goes down.

It's also interesting to note that there is currently a limited number of pp to go around because each ranked map has 40 spots for pp, and there is technically a limited number of maps to rank on.

At least this is what I think about it. ._.
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
the biggest flaw i find in pp is that when someone gets a rank #1 with lets say 96% acc DT, and someone else gets 100% DT except for 1 sliderbreak in the middle (leaving him out of top 500) the first person will probably get a ton of pp while the 2nd wont get a single point, therefor still making score an influence on pp.
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
Score does influence pp, but it does not influence the rankings as much as it did before. If you score higher than other people in maps, you get points. It is no longer "Who played the most maps wins". With the old scoring system, people would rather get a #100 on every ranked map in the game than have #1 on a reasonable amount of them simply because working for the extra 10k score in a map was not worth it compared to doing new maps and getting 30m points and boosting your rank a ton.
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

Winshley wrote:

MillhioreF wrote:

losing a #1 hurts a lot too but i don't think you have many of those xD
For my case:
- Initial pp was around 4,700pp (forgot what it was, exactly)
- Played Klaus Badelt - He's a Pirate [Hard] and scored rank #1 with only HD+FL, Performance jumped up to 5,093pp
- Played some random maps until having Performance around 5,105pp
- rockleejkooo took my #1 on the said map above, Performance dropped heavily down to 5,009pp D: (you can see a noticeable jump-down spike at my performance graph lol)
- I re-took #1 again on the map with HD+HR+FL, and Performance raised up to 5,134pp

@Wishy22: That beatmap I mentioned above was ranked since 2008.
lol that map

SPOILER
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
fuck freedom dive, klaus badelt he's a pirate is the shit!
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Winshley
Nice pp spike there, silmarilen :P

EDIT: I think I must be prepared to play the map again, because...
I see what you did there~ :P

silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
have fun getting SS with dt
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
but dat OD.
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Winshley
I can SS OD5+HR+DT (as noted on some of my Top Ranks), the hardest being this. So don't be surprised if I managed to pull this off~ ;)

On another note, JappyBabes killed my 107pp. :o
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers
If only I could play FL. I'd destroy you all! ;_;
-Athena-
1,414 posts
Joined June 2011
-Athena-

kriers wrote:

If only I could play FL. I'd destroy you all! ;_;
Go learn from azuraer sensei~
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

kriers wrote:

If only I could play FL. I'd destroy you all! ;_;
i cant FL either, but this map is just incredibly easy
Jordan
1,037 posts
Joined December 2010
Jordan
ok I got no pp from http://osu.ppy.sh/b/699

what

the

fuck
DeletedUser_910779
DeletedUser_910779

Jordan wrote:

ok I got no pp from http://osu.ppy.sh/b/699

what

the

fuck
Shut up noob.
Jordan
1,037 posts
Joined December 2010
Jordan

Soly wrote:

Jordan wrote:

ok I got no pp from http://osu.ppy.sh/b/699

what

the

fuck
Shut up noob.
k

now seriously i don't understand that system I got a lot of pp from easy insanes and no pp from these things ;_;
G0r
389 posts
Joined September 2011
G0r
If you've already given it time to update, then it might be that you didn't outdo anyone significant? It won't give you a lot of PP, if all the good players are above you in score on the map. I was thinking that this might explain why some people report getting a lot of PP from top 40ing Hards. It is simply easier to top 40 a hard, so you have a better chance of outdoing some really skilled player who didn't care enough to get perfect accuracy on the map, because it was incredibly easy for him. That's just a thought.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

G0r wrote:

If you've already given it time to update, then it might be that you didn't outdo anyone significant? It won't give you a lot of PP, if all the good players are above you in score on the map. I was thinking that this might explain why some people report getting a lot of PP from top 40ing Hards. It is simply easier to top 40 a hard, so you have a better chance of outdoing some really skilled player who didn't care enough to get perfect accuracy on the map, because it was incredibly easy for him. That's just a thought.
he got rank 3, topping players like cookiezi, doomsday, reisen udongein or shaggon.
Drafura
osu! Alumni
2,620 posts
Joined April 2010
Drafura

G0r wrote:

If you've already given it time to update, then it might be that you didn't outdo anyone significant? It won't give you a lot of PP, if all the good players are above you in score on the map. I was thinking that this might explain why some people report getting a lot of PP from top 40ing Hards. It is simply easier to top 40 a hard, so you have a better chance of outdoing some really skilled player who didn't care enough to get perfect accuracy on the map, because it was incredibly easy for him. That's just a thought.
So you're basically saying the pp system is ridiculous. You gain more for playing easier what a shame.
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers
I think the huge contrast between Jordan's hhr score and WW's hhr score might have something to do with it.

If it had been the only hhr score, maybe he'd earn some pp. I'm only speculating.
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
thelewa
You're forgetting the fact that other people's playing has an impact on your pp

for example if you have a #4 and someone else takes that #4, you will lose pp
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe
Also the fact that it's 95% acc... js... at least for me, I get 0pp no almost any map I get <97% acc on

Edit: I'm completely fine with this btw.
Tom69_old
Tom69_old
I got like 1-2 pp for all of this together: (Well... solid state squad wasn't surprising though. DT FC with 89% shouldn't be worth anything anyways.)


Well... happened often. Stopped questioning the system after all... some ranks also give incredibly huge boosts of pp. Just play and you will eventually stumble upon them. :>
Xlasher not giving anything is strange though.


In my opinion pp shouldn't take accuracy or mods into account at all. We already got a scoring system which scales with them, so just count scores as they are. There is absolutely no need to double dip modifiers. Especially not with them being hidden from us. Rank 5 shouldn't be worth more than rank 3 for instance, even if rank 5 got a higher accuracy.
G0r
389 posts
Joined September 2011
G0r

Tom94 wrote:

In my opinion pp shouldn't take accuracy or mods into account at all. We already got a scoring system which scales with them, so just count scores as they are. There is absolutely no need to double dip modifiers. Especially not with them being hidden from us. Rank 5 shouldn't be worth more than rank 3 for instance, even if rank 5 got a higher accuracy.
That's the major problem with PP. It's completely hidden from us in favor of not being farmed. If it's really all that good at judging skill... then why do we need to hide how it does this to keep people from farming it? It shouldn't be farmable in the first place. Why the cloak and dagger?
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe
^I hadn't thought of it like that before, that's an interesting point. Peppy should be able to release all the information on the pp system if it truly isn't farmable. This would also shut a lot of people up about it's ways (finally).

Edit: I disagree with Tom94's point about accuracy though. A #5 DT HD 98% is < #3 DT HD 97% ... I don't think so. just no. Accuracy > all imo.
Tom69_old
Tom69_old

YodaSnipe wrote:

^I hadn't thought of it like that before, that's an interesting point. Peppy should be able to release all the information on the pp system if it truly isn't farmable. This would also shut a lot of people up about it's ways (finally).

Edit: I disagree with Tom94's point about accuracy though. A #5 DT HD 98% is < #3 DT HD 97% ... I don't think so. just no. Accuracy > all imo.

I agree on your point that a #5 DT HD 98% is < #3 DT HD 97% is just wrong.
However this is a problem with the scoring system. If PP would take only scores into account, fixing the scoring system would also fix PP in consequence.

Also: What if the 100s were right at the beginning and one didn't want to sacrifice another retry? I often got higher ranks with lower accuracy just because I was too lazy to restart after getting 100s on the first 3 hitcircles due to wrong guessing the first beat with HD.
In those cases I still would value the 97% run more.
Last edited by Tom69_old , edited 1 time in total.
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
thelewa
Hey guys I'm #10 or #11, that should be enough proof that this system takes accuracy into account a bit too much
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
This system has some major problems.

look at the top 5 of the pp-ranking:
White Wolf- understandable
Cookiezi - ok aswell
SilviA- that's about right
Rucker- this is also right
Sette- Who the fuck even is he?

I mean... yeah, Sette isn't bad, but there are many players that are much better than him. He is just one of many random japanese pros. If you look down the ranks you will see many of these odd placings (one of my favourites is Hatsune Miku as #30 with guys like KRZY o Tom94 behind him). And beyond maybe rank 1000 the system basically says nothing or atleast not more than the old one. I for example can beat many people that are ranked way higher than me (up to rank 4000? no problem for me!), but I also got my ass whooped by some random 13-25kers (they were asians though :D)

So the conclusion that this system really has some major problems is not that unrealistic. If you now take into account that some maps give ridiculously high amount of pp (He's a Pirate for example, or Angel with a Shotgun on easy, I got for a no mod SS on that map 1 pp, considering some Hards with DT didn't give anything to me that's pretty high) and that most of the ranks that mediocre players achieve don't even count towards the pp ( fcs on easier insanes for example are out of the rankingspectrum) then it is really fucked up.

to fix the problems with differ the mediocre players atleast halfway correct, all ranks should be counted. and to fix those ridiculous "I fc things that are hard, got good ranks, no pp for it, played one easy map, got tons of pp" issue, we need to know the actual pp formula

tl;dr: lunatic conspiracy theories all the way \o/
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe
@Tom94, Yeah... no, if you don't want to "risk" an increase in playcount then imo the person who does should get the credit. It's not like playcount means anything sadly (because of the years of spunout).

@Tanzklaue, iirc Peppy said something along the lines of >pp is designed for higher ranked players. From what I've seen personally the lower ranks ie. where you are are not accurate at all. Also, you shouldn't accuse people of not being worth their rank until peppy has fully disclosed all details pertaining to the pp ranking system.
Tom69_old
Tom69_old

YodaSnipe wrote:

@Tom94, Yeah... no, if you don't want to "risk" an increase in playcount then imo the person who does should get the credit. It's not like playcount means anything sadly (because of the years of spunout).
Don't get me wrong please. I don't care about playcount at all (and this example wasn't directed at people who do either. They don't deserve a better rank, just as you said). Glad SpunOut doesn't work anymore btw. ^^

It's just annoying to try to properly hit the first circle with HD on a map with silent intro and no countdown. I don't want to bother to ESC->retry 10 times for not getting a few 100 in the beginning if it just decreases my score by mere ~1000. This is very annoying, especially with bugged timing calculation.
(e.g. this map: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/21124)
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe

Tom94 wrote:

It's just annoying to try to properly hit the first circle with HD on a map with silent intro and no countdown. I don't want to bother to ESC->retry 10 times for not getting a few 100 in the beginning if it just decreases my score by mere ~1000. This is very annoying
Yeah I hate that. However, despite my hatred for the ->retry 10 times to get those 300s, I still feel like it's the person who bothers to do so who should get the credit.

I too am happy about spunout being added to pc.
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
thelewa
YodaSnipe: for some reason it looks like Mio has fake tits in your avatar

seriously this has been bothering me forever
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe

thelewa wrote:

YodaSnipe: for some reason it looks like Mio has fake tits in your avatar

seriously this has been bothering me forever
Just the wake I like 'em 8-)
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Winshley
I noticed that silmarilen's pp also got a drop at the same time JappyBabes took my #1. I believe it starts recalculating our pp depending on the mod usage from better player as well.

Also...

thelewa wrote:

... this system takes accuracy into account a bit too much
This too. When JappyBabes took my #1 with an A rank, his pp is reduced (by -6) instead, so he went ahead on improving Accuracy and got an S rank which increases his pp by +13 afterwards.
Jordan
1,037 posts
Joined December 2010
Jordan
I just scored #9 on TU4AR Hakeru diff and lost 2 pp after the update. Well... I guess this system is just TOO complicate for us to understand it. D:

or maybe it's just fucked up : DDDDDDDDDDDD
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe

Jordan wrote:

I guess this system is just TOO complicate for us to understand it. D:
Yeah probably.
Neptune420
257 posts
Joined March 2010
Neptune420

Winshley wrote:

When JappyBabes took my #1 with an A rank, his pp is reduced (by -6) instead, so he went ahead on improving Accuracy and got an S rank which increases his pp by +13 afterwards.
i thought there is no penalties for bad scores.
G0r
389 posts
Joined September 2011
G0r
I wouldn't be surprised if the system reevaluates you after every play, so if you score badly enough, then I could imagine you losing PP. Maybe it's a matter of averaging out. I agree that it's too complex to really worry about.
Glass
1,522 posts
Joined January 2010
Glass

wiki wrote:

Increasing your rank
- Rank on highly contested maps.
how does this work on new maps? let's say I get a #3 rank with DTHD when the map barely has 500 plays, and then I still hold #3 after it reaches 20k playcounts, does it generate pp for me even though I got my score way back when the map was fresh or do I have to beat my own score to get the extra pp?
Last edited by Glass , edited 1 time in total.
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers

Glass wrote:

wiki wrote:

Increasing your rank
- Rank on highly contested maps.
how does this work on new maps? let's say I get a #3 rank with DTHD when the map barely has 500 plays, and then I still hold #3 after it reaches 20k playcounts, does it generate pp even though I got my score way back when the map was fresh or do I have to beat my own score?
It generates pp over time.
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe

kriers wrote:

It generates pp over time.
this. I also find that maps with 50k+ plays give significantly more pp.

and @tonyzore > There are no penalties for bad scores. If someone takes a #1 from you, your score is simply worth less therefore you lose pp. Further, if the take a #1 from you with significantly higher accuracy, your score is worth even less.
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
thelewa
My pp has stayed the exact same for 2 weeks now

EVERYONE MAD
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers
everyone trying so hard to beat lewa, end up behind him, boosting his pp further
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe

kriers wrote:

everyone trying so hard to beat lewa, end up behind him, boosting his pp further
lol'd. Though, the only time I beat lewa is on SS spinning (or sometimes beating his SSes with spinners LOL).

<3 you lewa, you hate spinners so much XD
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Winshley

tonyzore wrote:

Winshley wrote:

When JappyBabes took my #1 with an A rank, his pp is reduced (by -6) instead, so he went ahead on improving Accuracy and got an S rank which increases his pp by +13 afterwards.
i thought there is no penalties for bad scores.
Just for clarification: he previously scored an S with HD+HR+FL with only 5 100s. I just wanna point out regarding Accuracy affecting pp.
Thelostcup
10 posts
Joined February 2010
Thelostcup
So I'm going to have to start using a tablet and putting all the difficulty modifiers on (which rapes my processor) before I can even think about improving my rank?

Good to know
JAKACHAN
684 posts
Joined March 2011
JAKACHAN

Thelostcup wrote:

So I'm going to have to start using a tablet and putting all the difficulty modifiers on (which rapes my processor) before I can even think about improving my rank?

Good to know
You can run the game but difficulty mods rape your processor? Not sure if serious.
winber1
4,519 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1

JAKANYAN wrote:

Not sure if serious.
Thelostcup
10 posts
Joined February 2010
Thelostcup

JAKANYAN wrote:

Thelostcup wrote:

So I'm going to have to start using a tablet and putting all the difficulty modifiers on (which rapes my processor) before I can even think about improving my rank?

Good to know
You can run the game but difficulty mods rape your processor? Not sure if serious.
Flashlight and Hidden for whatever reason cause my FPS to tank like nothing else.

It's nearly impossible to even pass with those on.
JAKACHAN
684 posts
Joined March 2011
JAKACHAN
Flashlight I could POSSIBLY see, but Hidden? You might wanna clear that machine of viruses cause I don't see how even a super shitty machine can't run that.

Either that or you have something else going on that's causing lag.
darkmiz
407 posts
Joined August 2011
darkmiz
Maybe your processor doesn't want you farming with those two mods.
Espionage724
943 posts
Joined August 2011
Espionage724
Did accuracy change recently or something? I could of sworn I was 89% accuracy a day ago, but now I'm 93%, and didn't do anything
Thelostcup
10 posts
Joined February 2010
Thelostcup

JAKANYAN wrote:

Flashlight I could POSSIBLY see, but Hidden? You might wanna clear that machine of viruses cause I don't see how even a super shitty machine can't run that.

Either that or you have something else going on that's causing lag.
It's probably the fact that my heat sink is total crap.
JAKACHAN
684 posts
Joined March 2011
JAKACHAN

Espionage724 wrote:

Did accuracy change recently or something? I could of sworn I was 89% accuracy a day ago, but now I'm 93%, and didn't do anything
Accuracy went to the BETA accuracy which is usually higher for most people.

darkmiz wrote:

Maybe your processor doesn't want you farming with those two mods.
Go farm with FL I dare you.
Tom69_old
Tom69_old
I think that there definitely has to be made adjustment at either the difficulty calculation or the scaling of accuracy. Until now I didn't really feel like the system was off by much, sure it was off often but this is just ridiculous.

It can't be that this #1 grants me ZERO PP... srsly, zero. AR11, 270 BPM, the only DT fc. wtf?
And while this doesn't benefit anything there are sooo many easy top6 ranks which required no effort earning me 5+ PP (this is much at 6000+).
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
Maybe you lost some PP from somewhere else and this covered that? No idea really.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
The mere fact that PP takes into account how contested a map is, and that 90% of the players play for the /song/ and not for the /map/, means that PP rewards you not for your skill in getting good plays on hard difficulty settings but rather for your ability to do whatever everybody else does, only a little better. That's why easy plays give +pp while hard plays don't, because generally speaking, less people play harder maps so they're less contested to begin with.

Also the fact that map you played isn't some japanese touhou song hurts it in that aspect too... considering what the majority of the playerbase likes. holy shit that DT how did you get the streams right

If everybody else went ahead and played that map, your PP would go up drastically for that #1, because most players wouldn't be able to come close to that play; but since the song isn't popular it's not going to happen.
Tom69_old
Tom69_old

lolcubes wrote:

Maybe you lost some PP from somewhere else and this covered that? No idea really.
At my PP level only a loss of a #1 spot really recreases my PP by more than 1. The step between #1 and #2 is way bigger than #2 to #3 and to on. That's what I realized while observing closely. And I didn't lose a #1 in those 30 minutes. Also I don't have any good ranks older than 6 months which could diminish because I am a rather new player.

I am 99% sure that this indeed rewarded less than 1 pp sadly. :/



@ Aqo's post:
Yep, this is true so much. Just as another example. While the hard #1 I mentioned before earned me 0 pp, a #1 rank @ Leia which is a very popular map earned me ~20 pp. This is SOOOO much, even though the rank required way less effort.

Imho instead of taking the popularity into account so much I would prefer a stronger weighting of actual map difficulty.
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe

Tom94 wrote:

Imho instead of taking the popularity into account so much I would prefer a stronger weighting of actual map difficulty.
Yeah I think popularity is taken into account a little too much.
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers
So then we'd have to debate about which maps are considered difficult and it would require a full reset of a system that's already out of the beta phase.
Jordan
1,037 posts
Joined December 2010
Jordan
I don't know if popularity is taken that much, some #3/#4 places on really old maps gave me pp sometimes .w. this calculating is just strange.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

Jordan wrote:

I don't know if popularity is taken that much, some #3/#4 places on really old maps gave me pp sometimes
Because old maps have a lot of plays on them, since they've existed for a long time.

Imagine a top500 player played a random [Hard] map when he just started playing 2 years ago, and had an average score on it, two years ago, and he never bothered fixing it because he doesn't care for that map now obviously.

Then today, you play that old [Hard] map, and get a better rank then him. Then PP system will be like "omg look you did better than that other very-high-pp player, so you're probably very very good!" and then you get a ton of PP for a random old easy map. Some players already spotted some maps like that and posted them on the forums, usually it's maps with songs that are obviously very popular, and you basically get a ton of PP for free from them.
Drafura
osu! Alumni
2,620 posts
Joined April 2010
Drafura
Is the map contention calculated for the 3 play modes in the same way in a standard map ? Cause this should be wrong : playcount and retries are really differents in the same map between the play modes (example a basic stream map insanly easy in ctb and insanly hard in standard)
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
so now fcs give 9% more pp. what the heck? making the gap between high acc but one miss and low acc but no miss even bigger now lol.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
And this is wrong because?
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers
I just noticed several players leaped 30-40 pp without any plays for it. Thoughts on this?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

kriers wrote:

I just noticed several players leaped 30-40 pp without any plays for it. Thoughts on this?
peppy changed the parameters, fcs now count 9% more than before

at lolcubes: this is wrong because of accuracy. who is better: the player who got basically a SS but one miss, or a player who only got 95% but a fc? according to the system, the player with the lower acc is better, because he hittet one circle that the other guy randomly missed.
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Not missed, you can just get a 100 on a slider without losing your combo and that makes it, technically, not an FC, since you don't get to see the Perfect icon on the score.
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,560 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu

kriers wrote:

I just noticed several players leaped 30-40 pp without any plays for it. Thoughts on this?
e.g me \:D/
Frizz
4,131 posts
Joined April 2011
Frizz

Tanzklaue wrote:

kriers wrote:

I just noticed several players leaped 30-40 pp without any plays for it. Thoughts on this?
peppy changed the parameters, fcs now count 9% more than before

at lolcubes: this is wrong because of accuracy. who is better: the player who got basically a SS but one miss, or a player who only got 95% but a fc? according to the system, the player with the lower acc is better, because he hittet one circle that the other guy randomly missed.
I pretty much disagree with how pp currently works. Clearly the one who has better accuracy plays better than the other one who has higher scores but with worse accuracy.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes

Tanzklaue wrote:

at lolcubes: this is wrong because of accuracy. who is better: the player who got basically a SS but one miss, or a player who only got 95% but a fc? according to the system, the player with the lower acc is better, because he hittet one circle that the other guy randomly missed.
Well, a person who SS's a map but misses doesn't really SS it, right? I do agree that accuracy should be valued highly, and it already is, but since we don't know exact number or how exactly pp works, you can't really assume the thing you said it's true.
Also fullcombo is important, the only thing that gives you more is either better accuracy or mods, which is why I think the change is fairly good.
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
but that is when score actually matters.
in a perfect skill based ranking system the score should not have any bit of influence.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
Ranks do? And ranks are based on score, so. :P
If you have low pp and rank higher than a person who has high pp, you will naturally get a fair amount of pp. How would you determine you ranked higher? By score. No system is perfect, and we don't even know what pp actually counts in it's calculations, thats why we assume so much. :D
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
rank is determined by score, score isnt determined by skill.
if you fc a very hard part at the start of the map, but have some random 100s at the end, you will have lower score than someone who competely fails at the start but does the end right.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

silmarilen wrote:

rank is determined by score, score isnt determined by skill.
For cumulative score okay but not for individual scores.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes

silmarilen wrote:

rank is determined by score, score isnt determined by skill.
if you fc a very hard part at the start of the map, but have some random 100s at the end, you will have lower score than someone who competely fails at the start but does the end right.
You misunderstood my point. My point is that you have no perfect way of measuring skill unless it's done on a user per user basis. There are over a million of users and everyone can improve any minute, it's just not possible to evaluate them this way. The only way you could evaluate them somehow is the comparison of ranks, which are a combination accuracy and score (and mods).

Also "you will have lower score than someone who competely fails at the start but does the end right." what do you mean by that, that makes no sense. If you mean low accuracy, then he still played it to the max, where only accuracy or mods can yield him better scores, than someone who did not get a full combo. I thought this was quite logical. Accuracy does matter, but so does full combo. We don't even have pure numbers, we don't know what is the threshold where the accuracy without fc and accuracy with fc meet anyway.
I really see no issue with this.

Everyone has their opinions.
Colored
250 posts
Joined May 2011
Colored


not played for a week, but today i got over 20 pp ~
Nice :3
Parsley
19 posts
Joined August 2010
Parsley
I'm a decent player who mostly enjoys playing insane songs, but do not often FC them.

The problem I have with PP is that they are far too elite. I have not gained PP in months and only spiked once. I would have to go out of my way to rank up and constantly work on single songs. Plus there is no real good way to search for songs in game that would offer PP. Even adding a "sort by date ranked" option in the filters would be nice.
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Scores under top 500 are not counted. And since most insanes got like a trillion FCs...
Parsley
19 posts
Joined August 2010
Parsley
Which means I'm constantly knocked out of any chance of a rank. I don't mind being the 44000th best player in osu! if my PP is even remotely true, but I would like to be compared like the top players are.
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