^ everything up here is good stuff

Xiaounlimited wrote:

Nazo wrote:

Also,If you could import your own StepMania simfiles like the original download,that'd be awesome. :>

CheeseWarlock wrote:

And osu! is already avoiding SM/FFR's biggest downfall (from what I know of them): quality control.

lol

I meant import the songs you already have from SM. Gah,I gotta specify.

To address the step generation issue. I think we should be able to make ddr specific difficulties, like taiko, but should have a system to do a one time generation of steps for each and every beatmap.

Skyripper wrote:

To address the step generation issue. I think we should be able to make ddr specific difficulties, like taiko, but should have a system to do a one time generation of steps for each and every beatmap.

Taiko is also one-time? If you mean there is no random element? As there should not be anyway.

I highly agree with luigi's approach to this - making a bemani standard which can be skinned to act like any game with flying notes.

peppy wrote:

I highly agree with luigi's approach to this - making a bemani standard which can be skinned to act like any game with flying notes.

How many keys would be used? Would the amount be adjustable? Making a "Bemani standard" is a bit vague when their games vary between 4-9 keys. 12 if you include JuBeat.

peppy wrote:

Taiko is also one-time? If you mean there is no random element? As there should not be anyway.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

peppy wrote:

I highly agree with luigi's approach to this - making a bemani standard which can be skinned to act like any game with flying notes.

Would this be in a sister program or a special mode including bemani standards?

Working in the opposite direction, would it be at all possible for a converstion of Stepmania files to osu! files?

My osu! library is just about is full as my stepmania one, and I would personally love an unranked mode where stepmania files could be read by osu! and converted to playable beatmaps.

If anyone else is interested in the idea, I have a few ideas as to how things could be converted.

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peppy wrote:

I'm not making any game apart from osu!. Get that clear in your mind.

Good.

peppy wrote:

Also to the person who said SM's code is open: no I will not use someone else's code. The osu! special mode system is already mature enough to add it without much effort, and definitely without using someone else's codebase.

That code is incredibly convoluted and in c++ anyway. Original coding is the way to go.

i like where this thread is going

vytalibus wrote:

If ever we implement this mode, what benefits will it bring? I'm already seeing "we'll get more people to sign up!", but the problem is osu! has been quite unique in its gameplay. We will get a lot of people by doing this, but it'll be because they signed up for the DDR feature, which I honestly think hinders osu!'s gameplay.

This is a point that I want to reiterate. Even though personally I would find it cool to have everything in one game, I see that this move might actually harm the osu community. As a dance gamer myself I know very well that all international dance game communities (all international DDR communities, all international ITG communities, etc; not talking about local communities since those don't matter here) are utter crap currently. If you make a game mode that pulls that crowd here then you'll be the host to their bullshit for the future. I don't know what the situation is with Guitar Hero/Frets on Fire/etc etc communities though, so it might not be 100% bad.

Also, to beat all of the dance games and other bemani simulators out there (OpenITG being the best engine currently) you'd really have to have a lot of stuff, pulling away from development of the main osu game, which to me seems like a bad idea, considering that osu is unique while there are already a lot of "bemani" games out there.

If however peppy you decide to go for it, remember that I'm definitely willing to help with many aspects and you know I can.

Agkaemon wrote:

stepmania's code is public, so if you want to integrate it with osu or whatever you can just grab the source, modify the hell out of it, and uh...

No, don't touch that code base. It's a mess and a crappy mess too.

peppy wrote:

Also to the person who said SM's code is open: no I will not use someone else's code. The osu! special mode system is already mature enough to add it without much effort, and definitely without using someone else's codebase.

Your making a huge favor to yourself there.

Agkaemon wrote:

Also, Stepmania Online, you can have your very own modified server fron source as the stepmania client you'd design.

Just forget about all that StepMania stuff already. It's a mess, no one wants to touch it, and no one will be happy if they need to. Even the SM devs know this. Osu's online system beats StepMania Online with it's hands and legs tied up.

I think this is an awesome idea; I can't tell you how many times I've gone to Bemanistyle and looked for simfiles of songs I found on osu! that I liked and realized there are none, or how disappointed I am by the lack of DDR/ITG song beatmaps here. So something like this would be a good medium even if it doesn't have to be as fleshed out as SM.

Just a few things for discussion though:

-Scoring: One of the big parts of osu! is keeping a combo, that's how you get the most points, and if you miss one somewhere in the middle you get a significantly lower amount of points. In ITG a miss will break your combo but you can still score well, so will scoring in this special mode be closer to osu! or closer to ITG/DDR?

-Timing windows: ITG has...6 timing windows? osu! basically has 4. And other rhythm games have differing amounts too. If this mode were implemented I'd assume it'd be perfect (300)/great (100)/good (50)/miss but maybe not.

-Arrows: Will the notes for this be the circular beats that normal osu! uses or will they be arrows or the beat things like in O2Jam/IIDX/GF/DM? Also, in DDR/ITG the arrows are colored differently based on if they're 1/4 or 1/8 or 1/16 notes, etc., would this mode just have all monocolor notes or one color for each column (similar to Pump It Up) or what?

-Randomness of charts: One of the worst things about mods in DDR/ITG is how ridiculous they can get, especially if you play on Random/Blender (or whatever they're called, I don't use them so I might have the wrong terms). I hope there will be an algorithm or something in place to prevent stupid shit from being generated in the chart, because it sucks (and sometimes is practically impossible) if you're playing on blender and you get something like this:



I dunno if anything I said has already been addressed because I read the thread last night but didn't reply and can't remember all of what was in it. :x

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Skyripper wrote:

also, I need to map summer XD

omg yes plz

Edit: Oh yeah, and what about spinners? I know you said that people should be able to make their own but for existing charts what would happen with spinners? Would they turn into rolls or something?

Rather than make DDR into osu!, why not think about making a mode based off DDR and similar games? I thought that's what the original request was about, anyway.

strager wrote:

Rather than make DDR into osu!, why not think about making a mode based off DDR and similar games? I thought that's what the original request was about, anyway.

That was what I thought the whole topic was about ?_?

Unless somewhere it deviated into something else somewhere along the way and I didn't realize it

Skyripper wrote:

MegaManEXE wrote:

-Scoring: One of the big parts of osu! is keeping a combo, that's how you get the most points, and if you miss one somewhere in the middle you get a significantly lower amount of points. In ITG a miss will break your combo but you can still score well, so will scoring in this special mode be closer to osu! or closer to ITG/DDR?

osu!.. the scoring is pretty damn similar though.

What, similiar? Don't you realize that combo based and non-combo based scoring are as different as it gets?

Skyripper wrote:

MegaManEXE wrote:

-Timing windows: ITG has...6 timing windows? osu! basically has 4. And other rhythm games have differing amounts too. If this mode were implemented I'd assume it'd be perfect (300)/great (100)/good (50)/miss but maybe not.

perfect, great, good, miss (this is the osu! version (if it's implemented)). But, we are considering a "Bemani Standard", so maybe more. Most bemani games have about 6. Also, as far as scoring is concerned in ITG/DDR good, bad, miss, and whatever SUBTRACT from your score, which doesn't really exist in osu! atm

The score thing above, the timing windows, and the life bar effects of judgements are major problems with this whole plan. These vary between each game, and the fans of a specific game are very picky with these. A DDR fan hates ITG scoring system/timing windows/life bar, and an ITG fan hates DDR scoring system/timing windows/life bar. Same goes with all other games. Guitar Hero players love their hit/miss system, etc.

If you want to please everyone then you need to have a million game modes or you need to make a setting for the map that decides which timing windows, scoring, etc it uses. This would allow you to have a "bemani" game mode where the mapper just selects which games timing windows, scoring, etc it uses. The down side here is that it gets very confusing as each map uses different settings from the next.

Or another option. You could have only the number of buttons decided by the map. The player then actually selects the settings he uses just like mods are selected. So there's one mod for ITG scoring+timing+life bar, one mod for DDR, one for GH, etc etc. This is less confusing and allows everyone to play all songs with their preferred system, but makes online scoring either impossible or so scattered that most of the lists are really empty and there's no real competition.

Skyripper wrote:

MegaManEXE wrote:

-Arrows: Will the notes for this be the circular beats that normal osu! uses or will they be arrows or the beat things like in O2Jam/IIDX/GF/DM? Also, in DDR/ITG the arrows are colored differently based on if they're 1/4 or 1/8 or 1/16 notes, etc., would this mode just have all monocolor notes or one color for each column (similar to Pump It Up) or what?

Again, Bemani Standard. I think we'd have an algorithm to tone them based on 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, etc.

I've been asking for the "bemani" coloring for osu too and this would be a perfect opportunity to make that an option for the osu game mode while it is implemented for the "bemani" game mode. The look of the actual note (arrow, line, circle, etc) should probably be decided by the map.

Skyripper wrote:

MegaManEXE wrote:

-Randomness of charts: One of the worst things about mods in DDR/ITG is how ridiculous they can get, especially if you play on Random/Blender (or whatever they're called, I don't use them so I might have the wrong terms). I hope there will be an algorithm or something in place to prevent stupid shit from being generated in the chart, because it sucks (and sometimes is practically impossible)

I've been looking into this stuff. There are also arrow generators that start from scratch (no stepchart just an mp3) that work fairly well. I guess randomness is important in a sense, but I think map makers also need the option to make their own.

No generators, thanks. Each and every rhythm generator sucks and without a rhythm generator pattern generating is useless. This is why there is a manual ranking process for osu. People make the maps, other people and BATs check that they are ok and then they get ranked.

MegaManEXE wrote:

-Arrows: Will the notes for this be the circular beats that normal osu! uses or will they be arrows or the beat things like in O2Jam/IIDX/GF/DM? Also, in DDR/ITG the arrows are colored differently based on if they're 1/4 or 1/8 or 1/16 notes, etc., would this mode just have all monocolor notes or one color for each column (similar to Pump It Up) or what?

I assume that they would stay arrows, but it doesn't really matter. As long as they're readable. Also, I assume that this mode would be skinnable just like CtB can. I know Stepmania had 30493 different skins and one of my favorite arrow skins was one that had different colors for different timed notes just like you said.

strager wrote:

Rather than make DDR into osu!, why not think about making a mode based off DDR and similar games? I thought that's what the original request was about, anyway.

^

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I think everything that will be said, has been said. And the poll speaks for itself.

To anyone in particular: PM me if you have something pressing you would like to add to this thread. For now, it is locked.