and what when someone can fc a really insane map with low acc? still is acc more important ?Soly wrote:
I don't know, I'm just playing around with ideas. I'd assume accuracy is still more important than anything. FL would just mainly contribute to score rather than PP or something. IDK lol.
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pp: new ranking system
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quite the contrary. I have the utmost respect for mouse players. silvia, and kriers, and silentwings are three of my favourite osu! players... sooo... yeah?Soly wrote:
No, I just feel that good mouse players shouldn't fade into obscurity. And yeah, it is harder. The fact that you think it isn't degrades good mouse players.
omg, ofc yes, a higher acc will mean a higher ranking on the said map--> higher ranking and higher acc --> more pp.ReVeNg3r wrote:
and what when someone can fc a really insane map with low acc? still is acc more important ?Soly wrote:
I don't know, I'm just playing around with ideas. I'd assume accuracy is still more important than anything. FL would just mainly contribute to score rather than PP or something. IDK lol.
Soly wrote:
As long as the new accuracy focal point affects PP and not the actual score you get for the map I see no problem. So people going for DT+HD records still get #1 on a map but they wouldn't get as much PP as someone who got SS and HD and is rank #30 on that same map. This gives mouse only players a chance to strut their stuff in terms of skill measurement, mainly because competing against a tablet player mouse only you stand no chance whatsoever and mouse only requires alot of skill, this evens the playing field a bit.
Or maybe I got it wrong..this new system is a little confusing.
Yes, you got it wrong.
accuracy matters but not to that extreme
YodaSnipe wrote:
quite the contrary. I have the utmost respect for mouse players. silvia, and kriers, and silentwings are three of my favourite osu! players... sooo... yeah?Soly wrote:
No, I just feel that good mouse players shouldn't fade into obscurity. And yeah, it is harder. The fact that you think it isn't degrades good mouse players.
WHAT ABOUT GLADI, DISRESPECTTTTTTTTTT
I said three of my favourites. ofc Gladi is my all-time favourite. I just didn't wanna make the rest look bad naturally
^^Salvage wrote:
accuracy matters but not to that extreme
Hate me if you like, I'm just gonna say some noob shit:
I'm not against the Double Time mod... I am against players who play tap/x for the sole reason of DT'ing high BPM. It's speed with 2 hands which they don't have with 1 hand.
I've tried a lot of play-styles and I gotta say tap/x is pretty darn unstable. I respect the players who get good accuracy with tap/x, but I don't think 94% is high enough, 97/98% is more respectable.
I'm not against the Double Time mod... I am against players who play tap/x for the sole reason of DT'ing high BPM. It's speed with 2 hands which they don't have with 1 hand.
I've tried a lot of play-styles and I gotta say tap/x is pretty darn unstable. I respect the players who get good accuracy with tap/x, but I don't think 94% is high enough, 97/98% is more respectable.
yesterday I've updated my DT maps with ~92%, which was passed with much effort and over9000 retries, to first-try HD 98%, and today my pp grown up.
I agree with Wishy22, Peppy know game from his #50 000 rank, and has no idea how hard DT93% could be.
I agree with Wishy22, Peppy know game from his #50 000 rank, and has no idea how hard DT93% could be.
I like the new system. Jussayian.
_Angel wrote:
I agree with Wishy22, Peppy know game from his #50 000 rank, and has no idea how hard DT93% could be.
Like it or not it's true, you just need to play the game to know some stuff. Peppy won't really see some things players do see, same with any user who doesn't actually play the game but just watch it.
Hope he'll eventually play his own game and start seeing some things.
Hope he'll eventually play his own game and start seeing some things.
Before this turns into a discussion of "How does player ranking affect your knowledge about the game", let's not.
This thread is to discuss the New Ranking system, not to discuss about how much does peppy knows his own game. Everyone will have their own opinions on that subject and none of them holds the absolute truth (unless you've traveled inside peppy's mind), so let's just keep this thread for what it was meant to be.
Also guys, don't act like you alredy know how the new system works. This shall be revealed with time, but for now, don't go on assuming peppy did things he did not or put words in his mouth he did not say.
This thread is to discuss the New Ranking system, not to discuss about how much does peppy knows his own game. Everyone will have their own opinions on that subject and none of them holds the absolute truth (unless you've traveled inside peppy's mind), so let's just keep this thread for what it was meant to be.
Also guys, don't act like you alredy know how the new system works. This shall be revealed with time, but for now, don't go on assuming peppy did things he did not or put words in his mouth he did not say.
Tom69_old
Let's assume there is a player getting SS with HD on a common OD, say 7 or 8.
The same player is playing this map with DT+HD now and achieves 96% accuracy.
But is this really a lower accuracy? If we take OD into account it might not be.
If we measure accuracy not relatively to OD, BUT in the absolute offset of each hit, actually 96% DT+HD can and often IS better than SS HD. In terms of absolute time, the player actually was more accurate.
Not to mention that one has to keep an even faster pace with the rythm.
Same goes with HR+HD.
Of course this isn't specificly the case for OD 9 or 10, but I rarely, rarely see OD 9 used on a map... and I never saw OD 10 on a map.
Another indicator for this is that commonly on maps which actually have HD+DT 96% scores in the toplist, there often are pretty much SS HD scores.
Not saying anyone is wrong or right, just pointing something out.
The same player is playing this map with DT+HD now and achieves 96% accuracy.
But is this really a lower accuracy? If we take OD into account it might not be.
If we measure accuracy not relatively to OD, BUT in the absolute offset of each hit, actually 96% DT+HD can and often IS better than SS HD. In terms of absolute time, the player actually was more accurate.
Not to mention that one has to keep an even faster pace with the rythm.
Same goes with HR+HD.
Of course this isn't specificly the case for OD 9 or 10, but I rarely, rarely see OD 9 used on a map... and I never saw OD 10 on a map.
Another indicator for this is that commonly on maps which actually have HD+DT 96% scores in the toplist, there often are pretty much SS HD scores.
Not saying anyone is wrong or right, just pointing something out.
pretty much this facepalm.Natteke wrote:
I like the new system. Jussayian._Angel wrote:
I agree with Wishy22, Peppy know game from his #50 000 rank, and has no idea how hard DT93% could be.
Acc is important in a rhythm game. I think this is pretty logical.
http://puu.sh/qT3l hatsune miku > all pros D:
he play only normals and some hard diffs ._.
he play only normals and some hard diffs ._.
Please go be an idiot elsewhere.RaneFire wrote:
Hate me if you like, I'm just gonna say some noob shit:
I'm not against the Double Time mod... I am against players who play tap/x for the sole reason of DT'ing high BPM. It's speed with 2 hands which they don't have with 1 hand.
I've tried a lot of play-styles and I gotta say tap/x is pretty darn unstable. I respect the players who get good accuracy with tap/x, but I don't think 94% is high enough, 97/98% is more respectable.
Oh God, stop being so stupid.Soly wrote:
As long as the new accuracy focal point affects PP and not the actual score you get for the map I see no problem. So people going for DT+HD records still get #1 on a map but they wouldn't get as much PP as someone who got SS and HD and is rank #30 on that same map. This gives mouse only players a chance to strut their stuff in terms of skill measurement, mainly because competing against a tablet player mouse only you stand no chance whatsoever and mouse only requires alot of skill, this evens the playing field a bit.
Also, no. Hatsune Miku is #1 with Flashlight on plenty of Insanes.
Kyou-kun isn't making himself look good, is this normal?
QFTMesita wrote:
i think people are getting this wrong. Maybe SSHD gets some more "points" than DTHD, but maybe this "bonus points" are multiplied on some factor by the score or position(ranking) u get on the map, so after all math is done ... DTHD still gets u a little more pp than SSHD. I might be wrong or not, but we won't know till peppy wants we to know his pp calculation algorithm. Untill that, we can only speculate
I'm not sure if you're serious or not. High bpm songs with high OD are way easier to get good accuracy in than low bpm songs with high OD. Because the song is slower, you have more time to think about hitting the circle, more time to hesitate.Wishy22 wrote:
Following fast rhythms is harder than following slow rhythms.
low BPM (I mean, really low BPM, around 110-140) are really hard to get good accuracy on, because you are most likely not able to slow down, or you just aren't patience enough. some people who can stream 220BPM with ease aren't able to stream 130 BPM. on this maps, DT does make it easier for many players to get a good accuracy on. I say on many low BPM maps DT is easier than other mods for most people in osu.ragelewa wrote:
QFTMesita wrote:
i think people are getting this wrong. Maybe SSHD gets some more "points" than DTHD, but maybe this "bonus points" are multiplied on some factor by the score or position(ranking) u get on the map, so after all math is done ... DTHD still gets u a little more pp than SSHD. I might be wrong or not, but we won't know till peppy wants we to know his pp calculation algorithm. Untill that, we can only speculateI'm not sure if you're serious or not. High bpm songs with high OD are way easier to get good accuracy in than low bpm songs with high OD. Because the song is slower, you have more time to think about hitting the circle, more time to hesitate.Wishy22 wrote:
Following fast rhythms is harder than following slow rhythms.
....Salvage wrote:
accuracy matters but not to that extreme
In high bpms maps you have less time to think about hitting the circle, less time to make a good decision?ragelewa wrote:
I'm not sure if you're serious or not. High bpm songs with high OD are way easier to get good accuracy in than low bpm songs with high OD. Because the song is slower, you have more time to think about hitting the circle, more time to hesitate.Wishy22 wrote:
Following fast rhythms is harder than following slow rhythms.
What I mean is that in the end, it's all the same.
People usually find it "harder" because they lack the training and skills to play low bpm maps since they're used to play high bpms ones. I mean admit it, in your whole osu career, 80% of the maps you've played/spammed/grinded are high BPM ones. Under no circumstances do I agree to believe that low BPM is harder to acc on.
That said, I also acc better on let's say Taketori Hishou than I would on Shoreline on the first try...
You yourself have a SS on OD10 though.Tom94 wrote:
Let's assume there is a player getting SS with HD on a common OD, say 7 or 8.
The same player is playing this map with DT+HD now and achieves 96% accuracy.
But is this really a lower accuracy? If we take OD into account it might not be.
If we measure accuracy not relatively to OD, BUT in the absolute offset of each hit, actually 96% DT+HD can and often IS better than SS HD. In terms of absolute time, the player actually was more accurate.
Not to mention that one has to keep an even faster pace with the rythm.
Same goes with HR+HD.
Of course this isn't specificly the case for OD 9 or 10, but I rarely, rarely see OD 9 used on a map... and I never saw OD 10 on a map.
Another indicator for this is that commonly on maps which actually have HD+DT 96% scores in the toplist, there often are pretty much SS HD scores.
Not saying anyone is wrong or right, just pointing something out.
(hard rock on OD8 = OD10)But yeah, I can confirm what lewa is saying to be true, higher OD on lower bpm is harder to keep a good accuracy on than on higher bpm. If you are capable of playing, let's say 220 bpm 1/2s normally (on OD8), it would feel kinda the same as something like 160 bpm OD7 or 120 bpm OD6. Atleast that's how it feels to me.
I'm not saying that it's harder for me to get high acc on low bpm.
I'm just speaking based on what I've noticed. I've noticed that many people have problems with low bpm songs.
I'm just speaking based on what I've noticed. I've noticed that many people have problems with low bpm songs.
you guys should just stop complaining , the new system it's still better then the old 
Sorry. I'll be over here full comboing 300 BPM streams while you complain about it.RaneFire wrote:
Kyou-kun isn't making himself look good, is this normal?
Also, the claim that lower BPM is harder to get good accuracy on than higher BPM is just absurd.
Kyou-kun wrote:
Sorry. I'll be over here full comboing 300 BPM streams while you complain about it.RaneFire wrote:
Kyou-kun isn't making himself look good, is this normal?
Of course I can't full combo long ones beyond maybe 20 or so hits, and I can't do it accurately or consistently, but it wouldn't be possible for me without tap/x.
I just wonder if the system also detects your play style, because mouse only is considered to be the hardest way to play.
muhuhahahaha-......GladiOol wrote:
Kyou-kun wrote:
Sorry. I'll be over here full comboing 300 BPM streams while you complain about it.
No, it's considered the hardest way to play by idiots. Also, no. It doesn't detect your play style. Why would you even think it could do that?bomber34 wrote:
I just wonder if the system also detects your play style, because mouse only is considered to be the hardest way to play.
Never said that though, just said what I think based on what you said.ragelewa wrote:
I'm not saying that it's harder for me to get high acc on low bpm.
I'm just speaking based on what I've noticed. I've noticed that many people have problems with low bpm songs.
This is true, however on the same OD it is harder. Most people don't even look at OD though. Also I guess this differs from person to person.Kyou-kun wrote:
Also, the claim that lower BPM is harder to get good accuracy on than higher BPM is just absurd.
You seem to think that your skill and knowledge of osu! defines your worth as a human being and that you deserve respect for being good at a game. This is a public forum, I raised a point, and you effectively said "no, fuck you."Kyou-kun wrote:
Sorry. I'll be over here full comboing 300 BPM streams while you complain about it.RaneFire wrote:
Kyou-kun isn't making himself look good, is this normal?
At least add something constructive instead of insulting people, give reasons. If you don't care though, then you honestly shouldn't be posting. Share your wonderful knowledge of osu! and don't be a dick. You complain about Kaoru, but he's right behind you on your top ranks, and you're so "far" ahead only because of your stream speed.
So you can combo 300 BPM streams, but can you do 1 - 3 - 1 - 3 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 4 note stacks at the same BPM? You're indirectly proving my point about tap/x when you seem to think streams are the only thing that matter.
And regarding that subject of DT:
YES DT is harder, I agree, it's safe to say that on some maps it's harder than the 1.12x multiplier it gives, especially concerning jumps. But when you are pro at map reading and every other aspect, the one thing that holds many players back is finger speed and stamina, it gets better very slowly. How can you measure absolute skill based on someone's physical fitness, when their brain is well equipped to play with Hard Rock, Hidden and Flashlight and read difficult patterns.
Anyway, I'm only attempting to justify the reason for the "less pp for DT," I'm not saying anything should be done about DT at all, if what Mesita says is pretty accurate, then it works fine, and there's nothing to worry about.
Don't try to reason with Kyou-kun. He's a HD+DT player and he will go to any lengths to defend his own playstyle.
Kyou-kun ,try SS this ttp://osu.ppy.sh/b/99254?m=0
then talk...and this is just the easier case
then talk...and this is just the easier case
Tom69_old
lolcubes wrote:
You yourself have a SS on OD10 though.Tom94 wrote:
Let's assume there is a player getting SS with HD on a common OD, say 7 or 8.
The same player is playing this map with DT+HD now and achieves 96% accuracy.
But is this really a lower accuracy? If we take OD into account it might not be.
If we measure accuracy not relatively to OD, BUT in the absolute offset of each hit, actually 96% DT+HD can and often IS better than SS HD. In terms of absolute time, the player actually was more accurate.
Not to mention that one has to keep an even faster pace with the rythm.
Same goes with HR+HD.
Of course this isn't specificly the case for OD 9 or 10, but I rarely, rarely see OD 9 used on a map... and I never saw OD 10 on a map.
Another indicator for this is that commonly on maps which actually have HD+DT 96% scores in the toplist, there often are pretty much SS HD scores.
Not saying anyone is wrong or right, just pointing something out.
So in terms of absolute accuracy it is worth even more as HD SS, right?
Timeline
----------------------------------------------------->
[------------ Hit Window OD 8 ------------]
| <- hit
[---- Hit Window OD 10 ---]
So, while having more "accurate" hits you still have a lower percentage with higher ODs. That's what is the controverse thing that comes to MY mind when I hear someone compare the %-Accuracy of DT HD with HD only. (Or HD HR)
That's by the way the reason FlashLight appears so imbalanced to certain players. While it has the same score multiplier as DT it doesn't increase OD. So while having the same absolute accuracy in terms of hitting things you still have a higher percentage than with DT, thus a higher score.
^that's a nice timeline 
I don't mean that in a rude way.
FL doesn't increase OD, it makes the range of vision harder. Idc about either, just making the point.
I don't mean that in a rude way.
FL doesn't increase OD, it makes the range of vision harder. Idc about either, just making the point.
While FL doesn't increase OD, it certainly takes -much- more effort and time to achieve a decent score, especially on higher song lengths. I think it's a fair trade off imo.
[-Hit Window OD11-]
dont start DT contra FL endless discussion..stay with topic
dont start DT contra FL endless discussion..stay with topic
Even more than HD SS, yeah, atleast I think so.Tom94 wrote:
So in terms of absolute accuracy it is worth even more as HD SS, right?
ReVeNg3r wrote:
Kyou-kun ,try SS this ttp://osu.ppy.sh/b/99254?m=0
then talk...and this is just the easier case
Literally one play.
Posting in a locked thread. Good job with making this thread go horribly off-topic.
I don't personally find anything wrong with ranking, got much higher rank than before.
Also, I am mouse only player.
I don't personally find anything wrong with ranking, got much higher rank than before.
Also, I am mouse only player.