#1 Cookiezi
#2 White Wolf
#3 SiLviA
#4 Rucker
This is looking mighty good, way better than the ranked score system
#2 White Wolf
#3 SiLviA
#4 Rucker
This is looking mighty good, way better than the ranked score system
forum
pp: new ranking system
posted
Total Posts
990
Peppy got skeeeelz
Can you comment on the definition of 'worthy'? Do scores on a map count towards ??? points if they are outside of the top50 (that Piotrekol scrapes)?peppy wrote:
By hidden I mean ranks which aren't #1 (therefore not shown in the user's profile) but are worthy.
it's about the country ranking. And be sure, I don't want to offense you. I know that I don't deserve to be higher than you, because I barely play and as peppy said, being inactive makes it drop (for sure)BrokenArrow wrote:
Our rank raised down already, tiamus and me aren't on the first page anymore. What else do you want, Loctav?
The sorting is just slightly incorrect, even if it gets closer and closer to the truth.
I just try to improve this system by actually saying that "respectable scores" on maps, that contain unrankable elements for taiko mod (see the new taiko rules and for referece: Through Fire and Flames [Legend]) but have appropiate Taiko diffs, which are like played only, are respectable but not THAT much as they are right now.
Sure, [Legend] is a hard diff, but because it's not even FC'able (due to 1/8 streams afaik), no one plays the map to not ruin their overall statistics (accuracy, SS/S/A spread) - so surely the ones that pass the maps on a pretty decent way, they get #7 ranks.
And since I don't know how the whole stuff is even calculated, I can't say if I am even right.
maal
Oh yes! It's a great thing that you're putting these into consideration as well. Someone with 0 #1's can very easily be better than someone with a lot of #1's, it's a matter of what maps they play and how much.peppy wrote:
By hidden I mean ranks which aren't #1 (therefore not shown in the user's profile) but are worthy.
@peppy: Mh, yes. That's really true. People do need to play this game and some [Insanes] on taiko are really not that easy.
But there is maybe something I should need to ask you if I may. You do know what is respectable, am I right? To be honest, you are the founder of this game, but I don't know how much knowledge you have generelly about taiko, so please don't wonder if I tell you things you allready know or if I'm a bit suspicious.
About [Insane] diffs can be discussed much since there are sometimes taiko-like [Insanes] or some which are even harder.
But [easy] up to [hard]-some maps are in the most cases much easier as the taiko diffs.
If those maps which are converted to osu! give less points as specific Taiko maps, that should be okay(but the question is again hoooow much, maybe mm201 can tell you more about this, since players are not allowed to know that. Too small difference dosen't help here at all).
Also don't forget that most taiko players just play taiko specific maps and not osu-taiko maps which include 1/8 notes for example.
That's why we have the taiko diff's, to avoid that.
Sorry, I have to go for now. Noticed that there were some score changes, I will look through it soon.
But there is maybe something I should need to ask you if I may. You do know what is respectable, am I right? To be honest, you are the founder of this game, but I don't know how much knowledge you have generelly about taiko, so please don't wonder if I tell you things you allready know or if I'm a bit suspicious.
About [Insane] diffs can be discussed much since there are sometimes taiko-like [Insanes] or some which are even harder.
But [easy] up to [hard]-some maps are in the most cases much easier as the taiko diffs.
If those maps which are converted to osu! give less points as specific Taiko maps, that should be okay(but the question is again hoooow much, maybe mm201 can tell you more about this, since players are not allowed to know that. Too small difference dosen't help here at all).
Also don't forget that most taiko players just play taiko specific maps and not osu-taiko maps which include 1/8 notes for example.
That's why we have the taiko diff's, to avoid that.
Sorry, I have to go for now. Noticed that there were some score changes, I will look through it soon.
I don't even know that Settle guy, are his scores really worth being 7#?
Not saying they don't, im just courious since i don't know him.
Not saying they don't, im just courious since i don't know him.
dNextGen
Check for yourself. http://osustats.x10.mx/ His username is Sette by the way. No "L" there.Salvage wrote:
I don't even know that Settle guy, are his scores really worth being 7#?
Not saying they don't, im just courious since i don't know him.
Not saying his scores aren't worth it, but it seems he focuses on ranking [hard] maps mostly. [hard] with DT+HD is worth something, at least, so with such amount of ranks, and probably many [insane] no mods S's (even if not top 50), he managed to get a huge amount of "???" points.
Skill wise? I doubt he is the 7th best player, but one can't expect the ranking to be completely flawless, I guess.
Sette is a pretty good HR+HD player, but I didn't really expect him to be #7.
COOKIEZI ES #1
SYSTEM WORKS. I LOVE YOU PEPPY
SYSTEM WORKS. I LOVE YOU PEPPY
^ Agree 
Now the first 10 people on the list are in the same order i would pick them :3
SilviA #3 YES
Now the first 10 people on the list are in the same order i would pick them :3
SilviA #3
YESlol, it's different again. no cookiezzi and WW on first page \:D/ (their "???" is gone too)
ragelewa rank 2
hatsune miku the probably hacking chinese-easy-normal-farmer on the first page
ragelewa rank 2
hatsune miku the probably hacking chinese-easy-normal-farmer on the first page
It's recalculating, give it some time...
2012/04/19 0230: Scores updating. Reduced pool size for testing.
maybe?
maybe?
lewa for #1!
go lewa!
You are saying:Remilia-- wrote:
Mostly sums it up, but I would love it if peppy would put the ranking for different mods :c Since that is basically true, the rank goes by the mods & scores.
I myself am mostly a no mod player & rarely ever play with mods and I see people who just rank whore through the entire game to be in the top 50 above me . __.
Not that I actually care about ranking. But it seems really off.
I DON'T SUBMIT SCORES NOR GET TOP SCORES, I WANT MY ??? TO BE HIGH.
Yeah, you will have a low ??? until you quit if you don't submit any score and just play for SS.
HEY I WANT MY ??? TO BE HIGHER, I PLAY A LOT GET A LOT OF #3/#2/#1 BUT DON'T SUBMIT THEM BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THE ACCURACY PLEASE RAISE MY ???.
lewa don't be an idiot, playing X map on 180 BPM is hard, playing the same map on 270 BPM is harder because you are playing the same thing but you need to move faster, stream faster, and playing the same thing but faster is indeed harder. Like it or not being able to play stupidly high BPMs and not losing the rhythm is ridiculously hard, which is why DT is pretty much the hardest mod (it even increases OD).ragelewa wrote:
Sure, just spamming without even listening to the rhythm requires more skill in a rhythm game than actually listening to the rhythm
maal
This post once again. We're fucking equal now. Both at 4,728; seriously what the fuck.peppy wrote:
Your friend has hidden ranks that you are overlooking. Making these more visible may come with the new ranking implementation (I am still weighing up the pros/cons of this). Also keep in mind he is still behind you by over 50 points. That is a lot.Emaal wrote:
I pass Insane on first try, most of the times; whereas one of my friends, whom has 4,664, rarely survives insane's! He's farming on Easy/Normal; I honestly wouldn't call this skills. Sure, he has a few number 1's BUT, it's on Easy and whatnot.
This is merely feedback; not a suggestion or criticism.
Just stop complaining Emaal, any automated system like this will be about farming and you can't do anything about it. You can be a god player, be able to clear Airman on DT (I know it's impossible), but that's not worth a thing. All you have to do is go farm top scores to raise your ???. This is in the end just another farmi based ranking system, not much like the last one but in the end it is not a very different thing.
That's what I think, guess we should wait for peppy to finish it and see how it works out, my suggestion again:
Ignore FL scores (except it's something like DT+FL or HR+FL), give ridiculously high values to top scores on popular maps where many top players appear, make Hidden scores worth shit, make normal no-mod scores on maps where there is a lot of mod playing worth shit too, HR should be worth tons more than Hidden, DT way more than HR, very high ranks (#10+ on popular maps) should be worth a ton. like really, high ranks on stuff like http://osu.ppy.sh/b/83968 or http://osu.ppy.sh/b/80515 should be worth gold. Of course getting #1 on FL+HD should be worth nothing, remember if you want to make a ranking system not based on grinding, you first got to make grinding mods worth crap, DT+HD is obviously harder than DT only, not because of grinding but because of map readability and note-snapping, same on HR, but HD alone or FL alone (same FL+HD) should be worth almost nothing, like yeah go get some fame having #1, but don't get into the ranks higher than other guys that actually got the skill to DT that thing in a few plays when it took you hundreds to FL it (and yet you are completely incapable of doing DT).
That's what I think, guess we should wait for peppy to finish it and see how it works out, my suggestion again:
Ignore FL scores (except it's something like DT+FL or HR+FL), give ridiculously high values to top scores on popular maps where many top players appear, make Hidden scores worth shit, make normal no-mod scores on maps where there is a lot of mod playing worth shit too, HR should be worth tons more than Hidden, DT way more than HR, very high ranks (#10+ on popular maps) should be worth a ton. like really, high ranks on stuff like http://osu.ppy.sh/b/83968 or http://osu.ppy.sh/b/80515 should be worth gold. Of course getting #1 on FL+HD should be worth nothing, remember if you want to make a ranking system not based on grinding, you first got to make grinding mods worth crap, DT+HD is obviously harder than DT only, not because of grinding but because of map readability and note-snapping, same on HR, but HD alone or FL alone (same FL+HD) should be worth almost nothing, like yeah go get some fame having #1, but don't get into the ranks higher than other guys that actually got the skill to DT that thing in a few plays when it took you hundreds to FL it (and yet you are completely incapable of doing DT).
inb4 recalculating
I actually think this ranking is the most accurate we can ever get to, the ladder system would suck asses since is the shittiest way to organize a ranking specially in a game like this.
About the suggestions i pretty much disagree with all of them, Fl should be taken in mind the same way it does in the other system, i think it requieres a lot of skill, pretty much like DT (I'm stating this as true i don't even need to argue this with you thx), the only problem about this is that there will be the need of dealing more heavily with cheaters cause it can screw the top completelly.
About Hidden i think is good as it is since is not an Easy mod at all, (again i won't even discuss this) .. HR is good worthing what it does, HR HD shouldn't worth more than DT or FL (and with that i mean much more, i know it does but just a little so whatever), then we go back to FL and HD so there we go, it will never happen cause it's just not a good idea so repeating it over and over will not change how crappy it is.
About the farming to get high rank it will allways be capped on better players than you cause they will clearly get best scores, for example a sick HR HD on a known map will just own your farming if you can't do insane scores too so the farming is not as heavy as in the other Ranking (which i repeat i hope it doesn't get erased since i like that too), but i'm pretty happy with this ranking so far.
About the suggestions i pretty much disagree with all of them, Fl should be taken in mind the same way it does in the other system, i think it requieres a lot of skill, pretty much like DT (I'm stating this as true i don't even need to argue this with you thx), the only problem about this is that there will be the need of dealing more heavily with cheaters cause it can screw the top completelly.
About Hidden i think is good as it is since is not an Easy mod at all, (again i won't even discuss this) .. HR is good worthing what it does, HR HD shouldn't worth more than DT or FL (and with that i mean much more, i know it does but just a little so whatever), then we go back to FL and HD so there we go, it will never happen cause it's just not a good idea so repeating it over and over will not change how crappy it is.
About the farming to get high rank it will allways be capped on better players than you cause they will clearly get best scores, for example a sick HR HD on a known map will just own your farming if you can't do insane scores too so the farming is not as heavy as in the other Ranking (which i repeat i hope it doesn't get erased since i like that too), but i'm pretty happy with this ranking so far.
Ladder is the best system possible on any skill-based game, like it or not, since you get ranked based on your actual plays without taking into account any kind of grinding@specific maps.
No, FL requires extreme grinding on a certain map to be able to get FC. DT requires pure skill to get the FC. If you can FL FC some map it does not mean necessarily that you will be able to FC DT, meanwhile yeah, if you DT some map it does mean you can FL FC (w/o DT) with enough plays. Or you think Mesita can FC Gold Dust on DT? Lol.
HR should be worth more than HD because of the simple fact that it requires a better aim, faster reaction and higher accuracy. Hidden does nothing but make snapping a little harder and some notes hard to see but still readable if you're good enough (and listen to the song...). I'm saying that HD scores should be worth shit because yeah dude, Flute should be fucking #1 on Deep Space, but he isn't because HD is worth the same than HR that is clearly way harder. But since that won't be changed...
About that last thing, wrong, many players just play to get some sick scores on maps they like (examples: TTTL, Reisen Udongein) and therefore you don't see them around getting random top scores on any random map they can find, that doesn't mean they are bad they are still elite players.
No, FL requires extreme grinding on a certain map to be able to get FC. DT requires pure skill to get the FC. If you can FL FC some map it does not mean necessarily that you will be able to FC DT, meanwhile yeah, if you DT some map it does mean you can FL FC (w/o DT) with enough plays. Or you think Mesita can FC Gold Dust on DT? Lol.
HR should be worth more than HD because of the simple fact that it requires a better aim, faster reaction and higher accuracy. Hidden does nothing but make snapping a little harder and some notes hard to see but still readable if you're good enough (and listen to the song...). I'm saying that HD scores should be worth shit because yeah dude, Flute should be fucking #1 on Deep Space, but he isn't because HD is worth the same than HR that is clearly way harder. But since that won't be changed...
About that last thing, wrong, many players just play to get some sick scores on maps they like (examples: TTTL, Reisen Udongein) and therefore you don't see them around getting random top scores on any random map they can find, that doesn't mean they are bad they are still elite players.
Your hard earned skills to DT maps came from grinding countless of hours of osu! After grinding a map on FL, you aquire the skill to FC said map with FL. After grinding say 140bpm maps in general with DT, you aquire the skill to FC maps at 140bpm with DT. In the end it's all about how much time you put into getting that skill \o\
Guess getting those few points WW needs to get #1 should take a life-time since he isn't even close to him.
Ladder system is just bad for osu, a rhythm game. No one's gonna bother, it'll suck not having to play the songs you like, at your own pace, using the mods you like (read: solo play).
Also why do we need automated rankings to tell us 100% who the best player is again?
Deal with it. Judge by watching replays and spectating.
tl;dr this is as accurate as it gets.
Also why do we need automated rankings to tell us 100% who the best player is again?
Deal with it. Judge by watching replays and spectating.
tl;dr this is as accurate as it gets.
You still don't get it.CXu wrote:
Your hard earned skills to DT maps came from grinding countless of hours of osu! After grinding a map on FL, you aquire the skill to FC said map with FL. After grinding say 140bpm maps in general with DT, you aquire the skill to FC maps at 140bpm with DT. In the end it's all about how much time you put into getting that skill \o\
Pick any pro player that can do super DTs. Ask him to FL some map he DT'd, they gonna be able to get it in enough plays.
Pick any pro player that can do super FLs. Ask him to DT some map he FL'd, they won't be able to DT it probably. Unless it's a stupid low BPM map that everyone can DT FC in a single play... then fuck you go do DT FL instead of FL HD SS lol.
With FL you need to put an enormous amount of time for each map, when you are a skillful player you don't need to put several hours on doing DT FC on some hard map (if it's even doable). If you want to talk about skill, then leave FL out of discussions because that "skill" is called grinding, just as you play some MMO and kill the same stupid mobs for days, that doesn't mean you're pro it just means you got asian patience to do the same thing eternally.
Well I don't know about you guys but I wouldn't be able to FL jumpy maps even if I tried them a hundred thousand times.
I just lack the skill in FL to do that.
I just lack the skill in FL to do that.
pretty much this.ragelewa wrote:
Well I don't know about you guys but I wouldn't be able to FL jumpy maps even if I tried them a hundred thousand times.
I just lack the skill in FL to do that.
heck, I couldn't even FC an ''easy'' insane map if FL is on. No matter how many times I would play it.
Memorising a map is skill imo.
ninja'd salvage by 1 second. fuck yeah <3
lewa already #11
seriously this guy will be #1 shortly \:D/
seriously this guy will be #1 shortly \:D/
I will pierce the heavens
It's all about memorizing it, you need to play it hundreds of times. Remember how Lyby FC'd masterpiece? It took him like a week of playing that map during hours and hours, it even takes Mesita thousands of plays to do his FL scores lol, and some of them like Gold Dust took him MONTHS.
Have you played a jumpy map with FL 200 times and you still can't do it at all?
Have you played a jumpy map with FL 200 times and you still can't do it at all?
gladi #110 big big yeah!
Maybe you could put stickers on your screen, lol.ragelewa wrote:
Well I don't know about you guys but I wouldn't be able to FL jumpy maps even if I tried them a hundred thousand times.
I just lack the skill in FL to do that.
But anyway, this ranking will probably be the best we'll ever get. Unless peppy hires the people in lunatic's top 20 video to fly around the world and personally inspect every player to assign him/her a rank, we're never going to get a true measure of skill. Skill is too subjective. It's too hard to put a player who can FC 180 bpm maps on DT and another player who can SS OD8 maps on HR + HD or something on the same scale. As long as the ranking is done by a formula, someone's gonna be able to exploit it. There will be good players with low rank and farmers with high rank, and everyone is going to complain. Besides, everyone knows the top players, anyway, and what they can do.
DT vs FL gogogo
Now I'm #2 on CTB...
o.o
o.o