But having a low bitrate is pretty gay, and not high quality!. Even videos I pull off of video2mp3 are at the very least 128 kbps~.
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should rules be absolutely absolute
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having a 128 Kbps mp3 that sound like a 64 Kbps is even more gay.
8 bit music or MIDI doen's even need 128 Kbps to sound good.
8 bit music or MIDI doen's even need 128 Kbps to sound good.
You guys are going off-topic.
Rules should be absolutely absolute? yes, however there are a lot of rules that i think are more fitting as guidelines instead.
Rules should be absolutely absolute? yes, however there are a lot of rules that i think are more fitting as guidelines instead.
should rules be absolutely absoluteAbsolutely. Sorry, I couldn't resist ^^
Only the most central rules are always absolute. Things like timing and technical stuff where there's a clear cut right/wrong.
Other rules/guidelines have a kernel of absolute cases followed by a much larger cloud of optional things.
What is always absolute is that you shouldn't even break a guideline unless you truly feel it's for the best of your mapset.
at or belowziin wrote:
So I can't ever get my 80 kbps map ranked because the highest quality is 80 kbps?Ephemeral wrote:
192kbps capped VBR will be sufficient - a BAT is not going to sit there and immediately pop a bubble if the bitrate spikes to 210 for a second or so. As long as the average is at or below 192, it should be okay.
read plz
How about we phrase the rule for breaking rules like:
You may break a rule if and only if both you and the BATs agree:
1. That what you're doing is reasonable, logical, and in the best interest of the map, and
2. That there's no way to accomplish what you're doing by following the rule.
In other words, if it's possible to make changes without destroying your map, you should always do that instead of breaking a rule.
isn't that a guideline?
Rules should be rules and should be followed absolutely, but I think these should be few in number and easy to know if they are broken/followed. Everthing else should be a guildline. We could even break those up into Strict Guidelines and Looser Guidelines. Strict would need a dang good reason to break and Looser would just need a decent excuse.
Mashiro Mito
I believe another reason the rule need to exist is to protect MAT/BAT from people &^&%*! them. making Strict Guidelines and Looser Guidelines and not including the "Strict Guidelines" in to the rule will make this matter worse. This is the reason why I introduced rule breaker(and it got nuked) to somehow make both side happy.GigaClon wrote:
Rules should be rules and should be followed absolutely, but I think these should be few in number and easy to know if they are broken/followed. Everthing else should be a guildline. We could even break those up into Strict Guidelines and Looser Guidelines. Strict would need a dang good reason to break and Looser would just need a decent excuse.
If you haven't read the rule breaker post, you can find it here:
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=65317
Since that thread got nuked, this topic is in a very bad position. peppy have said a lot of interesting things on changing stuff, and I believe all the changes will be there on OSU2. so I hope the rule breaker might still make a comeback.
Now... just when is OSU2 comming...
Rule Breaker is a poorly considered suggestion and suggesting it implies that you don't care about standards; nor do you seem to respect the foundations of this game. I think that all guidelines should be strict and should be followed in a similar fashion to rules. That way, there is less room for mappers to do ridiculous things. Rules should be breakable under very rare circumstances, or when the rules aren't clear enough. VBR MP3s are an example of this, because the current rules imply that they should never peak at above 192KB/s. This is false. They are allowed to peak above this, but the rule for audio quality implies otherwise.
What I detest (I really do) is when mappers try to get around the rules and guidelines or to attempt to justify something because the rules and guidelines give them wiggle room. NatsumeRin's horrible sliders are the latest example of this. If nothing else, I think that there should be stricter guidelines in place and that mappers should be encouraged to stick to the guidelines, unless they have an extremely compelling reason to do otherwise.
Maps have became more and more ridiculous and they are allowed solely because they don't break the current rules (or worse, the rule breaking is considered as negligible). I think that it's time for standards to be tightened, because for all of the experienced people who are used to the senseless characteristics of many maps, there are perhaps a hundred times as many newer players who would be confused by messy patterns and sliders. This is not what we want for a game that's now very popular.
What I detest (I really do) is when mappers try to get around the rules and guidelines or to attempt to justify something because the rules and guidelines give them wiggle room. NatsumeRin's horrible sliders are the latest example of this. If nothing else, I think that there should be stricter guidelines in place and that mappers should be encouraged to stick to the guidelines, unless they have an extremely compelling reason to do otherwise.
Maps have became more and more ridiculous and they are allowed solely because they don't break the current rules (or worse, the rule breaking is considered as negligible). I think that it's time for standards to be tightened, because for all of the experienced people who are used to the senseless characteristics of many maps, there are perhaps a hundred times as many newer players who would be confused by messy patterns and sliders. This is not what we want for a game that's now very popular.
Mashiro Mito
I agree that the rule breaker was poorly worded and considered. this is why I posted here see if we can make this rule breaker better. but later in that post someone did mention that BAT/MAT are allow to kinda "break" the rule and allow such thing happen. This is why I stopped posting because as long as BAT/MAT have the power to allow exceptions(make this a rule?). As you mentioned, NatsumeRin's slider was a good example of this, but BAT disagree with each other... which changed ranked to unranked. This is another good reason why rule breaker should exist.
There should never be a "rule breaker" as a standard. Rule breaking should always be a case by case thing and with very good reason. If a feature in a map is considered as unrankable, then it almost always is. Exceptions are kind of hard to come by and that's before non-rule issues are taken into account, such as structure and presentation. Stop trying to make a case for rule breaking as a creative tool, because it will never happen. peppy would probably pull the plug on this game before that could happen.
Actually guidelines are case by case, rules cant be broken under any circumstance.
I meant that as in a rule being broken because of a technicality or the rules not being comprehensive enough to allow for something. Again, the whole VBR issue--the rule for audio quality isn't clear enough and can be twisted every which way.Sakura Hana wrote:
Actually guidelines are case by case, rules cant be broken under any circumstance.
if a rule is broken and people support it, the rule should be fixed to allow for that.
i do think that many rules could be degraded to guidelines anyway
It would depend on who and how many support it. If it's something that mm and peppy (or otherwise a very experienced user/BAT/MAT) would never allow, then I wouldn't argue with them, even if my word had a lot of weight to it. Standards are extremely lenient as it is and if we were to scrap rules simply because several people support it, then standards would probably go out of the window.ziin wrote:
if a rule is broken and people support it, the rule should be fixed to allow for that.
Mashiro Mito
as now, and no one read it, i think some rule can be guideline and some guideline simpe suggestions...
Simple and true.ziin wrote:
if a rule is broken and people support it, the rule should be fixed to allow for that.
Rule breaker should never be there imo, if sometimes there's a contradiction between rules and certain maps, people should just think about that and discuss whether to change the rule, or change the map.
list them now. If they are valid we will fix the rules. If you can't, the rules are perfect. Should there be a problem later we will repeat the process.Mashiro Mito wrote:
It seems that most people here thinks that rule breaking only occurs with bad maps.
what to do if it is used for good/fun/positive purposes?
Mashiro Mito
Alright, Rule should be absolute after all these discussions in this thread since I'm the only one think the opposite. Just letting you guys know I really did not want this happen so people make bad maps and get away with it. It was intended as a creative tool.
Please feel free to lock/nuke/delete this topic as most people who actually read this new rule session have expressed their opinion on this. It makes me look like a retard trolling if I continue.
Please feel free to lock/nuke/delete this topic as most people who actually read this new rule session have expressed their opinion on this. It makes me look like a retard trolling if I continue.
Ineed, that's why we discuss rules and guidelines, at the bottom end the thing is this:
Rules cannot be broken under any circumstance.
Guidelines can be broken ONLY on special cases.
If it happens that maps tend to break rules and it makes sense then the rules themselves should be revised, not the use of them.
/thread
Rules cannot be broken under any circumstance.
Guidelines can be broken ONLY on special cases.
If it happens that maps tend to break rules and it makes sense then the rules themselves should be revised, not the use of them.
/thread