I was more like bringing the fact that you can't tell the real order of the difficulties sometimes with star rating, your diff names are fine because all are Expert/Insane
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New Rule: Difficulty names must name the difficulty
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Topic Starter
Insane, Extreme, Impossible. :3Blue Dragon wrote:
Except only-insane diffs in an approval map shouldn't respect this rule because that is very silly.Sakura Hana wrote:
Who can tell indeed Fun Fact: Nogard was the easiest before i asked BD to increase diff settings by +1
([Hakeru's Insane], then [Mercurius' even harder], then [BD's even more diffcult than that]?)
Impossible, Really Impossible, Really Really Impossible.
Yeah, having all-insane approval mapsets follow this rule would be needless.
Yeah, having all-insane approval mapsets follow this rule would be needless.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/29807
FYI.
Not having a clear picture of the difficulty from just one map is somewhat annoying when trying to join a multiplayer game.
FYI.
Not having a clear picture of the difficulty from just one map is somewhat annoying when trying to join a multiplayer game.
I do agree with this, i would like to add that possibly any 6 minute or higher map needs to be labeled as Marathon (or we could discuss the length for that) and needs a Marathon tag, because i feel we're missing quite a bit from here http://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist&s=4&r=6 ... 6&g=0&la=0 like for instance the top 2 here http://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist&s=4&r=6 ... 6&g=0&la=0
No more Blue, red and Gold Truths, then v_v
Hello! What players are you talking about? I'm a player and I have never experienced any troubles finding which difficulty is the hardest one / easiest one / whatever.Larto wrote:
This is to help players find out what kind of difficulty it is without having to start the map first, since the star rating isn't always accurate.
There are actually situations where difficulty naming is helpful in finding out which difficulty is hardest, see these:
A. Tanaka, M. Matsuda - Ooparts
Relient K - I'm Getting Nuttin' For Christmas
Lou Bega - Mambo No.5
Also, haze isn't a good example because both [Shiirn] and [Natteke] are marked as 5 stars in star rating, and [Shiirn] gives more points, so it's still sort of confusing which one is harder.
A. Tanaka, M. Matsuda - Ooparts
Relient K - I'm Getting Nuttin' For Christmas
Lou Bega - Mambo No.5
Also, haze isn't a good example because both [Shiirn] and [Natteke] are marked as 5 stars in star rating, and [Shiirn] gives more points, so it's still sort of confusing which one is harder.
You should consider that there might be the case when there are 2 diffs of a similar difficulty level, but with different ways of being difficult (such as jump vs. stream). Naming one of them "Hard" and the other "Insane" implies that one actually is harder, but the personal impression of a map's difficulty often differs from player to player, so there should be a different way of naming them.
When there are difficulties of different difficulty level it usually is very obvious which one is the harder one, and if it's not we can handle this on a case to case basis.
And no, 2 diffs of a similar difficulty level are not a problem.
When there are difficulties of different difficulty level it usually is very obvious which one is the harder one, and if it's not we can handle this on a case to case basis.
And no, 2 diffs of a similar difficulty level are not a problem.
Objectively:
Nope. Only a few ranked maps have problem like this. Also if you're not the several "first players" come to that map, you can always tell the difficulty by checking the scoreboard. I don't think a rule is needed when 99.9% of the time things are already done. Why not let mappers have some fun with it then. At least, guestline that?
Subjectively:
No, I still need to use Rin for my highest diff so no.
Nope. Only a few ranked maps have problem like this. Also if you're not the several "first players" come to that map, you can always tell the difficulty by checking the scoreboard. I don't think a rule is needed when 99.9% of the time things are already done. Why not let mappers have some fun with it then. At least, guestline that?
Subjectively:
No, I still need to use Rin for my highest diff so no.
Precisely. But even then, although Shiirn gives more points, Natteke was actually technically harder.SapphireGhost wrote:
Also, haze isn't a good example because both [Shiirn] and [Natteke] are marked as 5 stars in star rating, and [Shiirn] gives more points, so it's still sort of confusing which one is harder.
I think sometimes mapper would like to express everything in mapping to make players really into it.
On that basis, They tend to use diff name to be unique in each mapset most. Sometimes, anime song can have anime character to be diff name. I think it really is ok for me if they still don't overuse it and be reasonable. Moreover, they perhaps use diff name to be guest name so that we players can know in the first time, who is creator for that map. In case players who are impressed with that map style, they will remember in next time when they see this name again(or try to avoid if....lolz)
Want you to reconsider this again. :3
On that basis, They tend to use diff name to be unique in each mapset most. Sometimes, anime song can have anime character to be diff name. I think it really is ok for me if they still don't overuse it and be reasonable. Moreover, they perhaps use diff name to be guest name so that we players can know in the first time, who is creator for that map. In case players who are impressed with that map style, they will remember in next time when they see this name again(or try to avoid if....lolz)
Want you to reconsider this again. :3
What would happen to difficult names like the ones I use for my DKC maps, which do make sense ? T_T
I think this should be modified to cases when the diff name doesn't make sense *at all*.
I think this should be modified to cases when the diff name doesn't make sense *at all*.
Odaril wrote:
What would happen to difficult names like the ones I use for my DKC maps, which do make sense ? T_T
I think this should be modified to cases when the diff name doesn't make sense *at all*.
Even though I feel it's ridiculous.Sakura Hana wrote:
So no, as i said something that can be measured would sufficeNoHItter wrote:
What about difficulty names such as:
Castle, Sauna, Secret Lab, Heaven
It tells the difficulty, but you would need some sort of knowledge of a particular source in order to get it.
If you can't tell what is the hardest diff, you know, you can go to the listing, and if the mapper is intelligent enough, he will list what the diff names mean. If not, punch the mapper until he does.
This rule is so much yes. Arbitrary difficulty names are pointless, and I'm sure a mapper can come up with something with a logical order for whatever theme they're going for. Also, guest mappers who are only credited in the description always make me rage :<
That should be okay since it's consistent through all of your other maps and is in most cases pretty obviously the insane of the set.NatsumeRin wrote:
No, I still need to use Rin for my highest diff so no
I agree with the part that says that guest mapper's names MUST appear in their diff name.
Custom difficulty names should make sense though and there should be some kind of order possible on them.
"a b c d" would be okay, for instance. Or "1 2 3 4" "bottom low high highest" or something.
It should be okay if they make sense when related to a game, a novel, or something like that. They would just require a bit of knowledge to understand though. "vulpix ninetails" would be okay, for instance.
(in this case my idea for DKC maps would make sense, as the levels' names can clearly be sorted out from "easiest" to "hardest")
However, things like Shiirn's mapset, or "rabat23746's ultra love" or "SUPRA LOLI" or whatever that doesn't make sense wouldn't.
Custom difficulty names should make sense though and there should be some kind of order possible on them.
"a b c d" would be okay, for instance. Or "1 2 3 4" "bottom low high highest" or something.
It should be okay if they make sense when related to a game, a novel, or something like that. They would just require a bit of knowledge to understand though. "vulpix ninetails" would be okay, for instance.
(in this case my idea for DKC maps would make sense, as the levels' names can clearly be sorted out from "easiest" to "hardest")
However, things like Shiirn's mapset, or "rabat23746's ultra love" or "SUPRA LOLI" or whatever that doesn't make sense wouldn't.
How is this useful to someone who is unfamiliar with the series the song is from?
I don't think we can have a rule about this.
I don't think we can have a rule about this.
I don't like this rule.
It would affect more that just random names that can't be guessed, it would also ban diffs named "Collab" and stuff of the sort.
And "Hard Collab" or "Insane Collab" just looks stupid.
I've never had any problems with arbitrary diff names, it takes literally 30 seconds to check the scoreboards if you really must.
It would affect more that just random names that can't be guessed, it would also ban diffs named "Collab" and stuff of the sort.
And "Hard Collab" or "Insane Collab" just looks stupid.
I've never had any problems with arbitrary diff names, it takes literally 30 seconds to check the scoreboards if you really must.
Lunah_old
Actually I'm more of a fan of making this a guideline instead. True I really don't like mappers using their own name as their diff name, but it really isn't that hard to check.
A difficulty spread's naming convention shouldn't require special knowledge of any subject matter.
awp wrote:
A difficulty spread's naming convention shouldn't require special knowledge of any subject matter.
I disagree with that.
Lets say we have a Pokemon map.
IMO it should be fine having a Pokemon based difficulty naming system as it fits the theme.
Example: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/12622
So by that system, we're also banning Taiko difficulty names too since you need prior Taiko knowledge?
"What do Kantan, Futsuu, Muzukashi, and Oni mean?"
Lets say we have a Pokemon map.
IMO it should be fine having a Pokemon based difficulty naming system as it fits the theme.
Example: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/12622
So by that system, we're also banning Taiko difficulty names too since you need prior Taiko knowledge?
"What do Kantan, Futsuu, Muzukashi, and Oni mean?"
Topic Starter
I think a "Cyndaquil (Easy)" isn't too unaesthetic. You can keep your creativity, but at least in SOME way show that your difficulty is Easy, Normal, Hard or Insane.
How about...
How about...
Difficulty names must indicate the difficulty of the map, and if it's a guest mapper, show that mapper's name. This is to help players find out what kind of difficulty it is without having to start the map first, since the star rating isn't always accurate. Things like [Insane], [Expert], [Pro] or [Level 5] are acceptable difficulty names, [Tree] isn't. [Tree (Normal)], on the other hand, is acceptable.
well, they should represent However, a logical sequence or a tier list...
But, actually it's a nono, it should be a guideline, not a rule.
But, actually it's a nono, it should be a guideline, not a rule.
I still believe that as long as there is a logical order/indication of difficulty then it should be fine.
If it requires prior knowledge of something, it should be fine as long as the map's source/theme is similar with that.
On a sidenote, what about difficulty names based on the order of the lyrics of a song?
Edit: Also Larto, having a parenthesis followed by the difficulty description is unaesthetic >.>
If it requires prior knowledge of something, it should be fine as long as the map's source/theme is similar with that.
On a sidenote, what about difficulty names based on the order of the lyrics of a song?
Edit: Also Larto, having a parenthesis followed by the difficulty description is unaesthetic >.>
No. People have the right to be douches.
That won't stop you from suggesting they name their difficulties to more appropriate logical names. Usually if enough people agree there will be a fix.
This is so minor it's not worth discussion.
That won't stop you from suggesting they name their difficulties to more appropriate logical names. Usually if enough people agree there will be a fix.
This is so minor it's not worth discussion.
it really depends on the map. say is the source is beatmania or touhou, then names like hyper, another and lunatic would be acceptable since a lot of people know what they are. however i really don't see the point in (animecharacter's Easy, animecharacter's Normal etc)
The diff names should be easy to understand, maps like this are just silly.
I also agree with the earlier statement about Collab diff's. it should be include the difficulty in there somewhere like Insane(Collab). also i believe each collab section should be properly names so players can tell who's map what part. Most do it anyway, i think there are a couple that don't
The diff names should be easy to understand, maps like this are just silly.
I also agree with the earlier statement about Collab diff's. it should be include the difficulty in there somewhere like Insane(Collab). also i believe each collab section should be properly names so players can tell who's map what part. Most do it anyway, i think there are a couple that don't
I had a very well written post, but the add reply button does not add what you've already written as a reply, it goes to a different page.
Basically, it should either be a guideline or only be applied for maps where the star rating doesn't already rank them properly.
Basically, it should either be a guideline or only be applied for maps where the star rating doesn't already rank them properly.
This rule really isn't necessary...
It's almost always really obvious which diff is the hardest one. If it's not, just playing them both would be enough to figure it out, and looking at the scoreboard could also be another way to tell. The only way it's not obvious is if the hardest diff doesn't have the highest score and doesn't appear at the bottom of the list, which isn't frequent at all and doesn't need a rule that would apply to all cases.
It's almost always really obvious which diff is the hardest one. If it's not, just playing them both would be enough to figure it out, and looking at the scoreboard could also be another way to tell. The only way it's not obvious is if the hardest diff doesn't have the highest score and doesn't appear at the bottom of the list, which isn't frequent at all and doesn't need a rule that would apply to all cases.
This.ziin wrote:
No. People have the right to be douches.
That won't stop you from suggesting they name their difficulties to more appropriate logical names. Usually if enough people agree there will be a fix.
This is so minor it's not worth discussion.
That box is for quick reply, button on the right.Drakari wrote:
I had a very well written post, but the add reply button does not add what you've already written as a reply, it goes to a different page.
The idea of custom difficulty names was to follow other difficulty convention names, like [Advanced], [Expert] or [Maniac]. Most of the time it isn't a problem, though there are some maps who use stupid difficulty names that don't resemble any difficulty naming convention... for example, calling the difficulties [Maria], [Joel] and [Daniela] is stupid and confusing because I have no way to know what difficulty is which.
It shouldn't be an obscure difficulty name either, so everyone understands what difficulty it is; for example, let's say a beatmap is of X anime and the strongest character is Y, so the mapper names it [Y]. Those who don't know the anime are left out, wondering what the name means, which is a bit unfair.
Anyone agree?
There was nothing of this written anywhere, so I thought of adding it to the guidelines so there's less confusion.
It shouldn't be an obscure difficulty name either, so everyone understands what difficulty it is; for example, let's say a beatmap is of X anime and the strongest character is Y, so the mapper names it [Y]. Those who don't know the anime are left out, wondering what the name means, which is a bit unfair.
Anyone agree?
There was nothing of this written anywhere, so I thought of adding it to the guidelines so there's less confusion.
For my maps, if I do decide to have a custom name I always add what diff it is.
Ex: all my Toradora maps are like [Ami Insane], [Taiga Hard] etc.
Maybe if the name is ambiguous then what type of diff should be added. So [X Insane]
Ex: all my Toradora maps are like [Ami Insane], [Taiga Hard] etc.
Maybe if the name is ambiguous then what type of diff should be added. So [X Insane]
Kinda agree.
I usually give my Insane Guest or Collab diffs some wordplay name like:
-Haku No Okami -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28257
-Hakkun;Gate -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/30876
Or using Personas names ordered by level here -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28856
By the way, you don't need a guideline to make that, as modders will take the work of making the mapper changing it if it has no sense ( e.g Maria, Joel and Daniela in a song where they don't even appear in the lyrics... )
I usually give my Insane Guest or Collab diffs some wordplay name like:
-Haku No Okami -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28257
-Hakkun;Gate -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/30876
Or using Personas names ordered by level here -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28856
By the way, you don't need a guideline to make that, as modders will take the work of making the mapper changing it if it has no sense ( e.g Maria, Joel and Daniela in a song where they don't even appear in the lyrics... )
Is not confusing, it's obvious which is which. No matter the name.
more than the name itself, he's talking about using names that doesn't center much in the song/anime/contest of the map
If the star ratings are accurate, gimmick difficulty names should be okay. If not, you really shouldn't.
This doesn't delete the fact that is not worth a guideline and obviousl not a rule either!
Uh...HakuNoKaemi wrote:
more than the name itself, he's talking about using names that doesn't center much in the song/anime/contest of the map
Actually, I'm sorry to say, but that's exactly what I meant - as a person who has never played Persona, I have no idea what the difficulty names mean. If you tell me "play [Asura]", it could mean Normal or Insane to me. Absolutely non-related names are already picked up in the modding process, as you said.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
Or using Personas names ordered by level here -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28856
Names like [Regular Titan], [Super Titan] and [Ultra Titan] are perfectly fine to me, since they indicate some sort of size growing up, so I can safely assume [Ultra Titan] is going to be the hardest. Character names don't make any sense though, unless you know the source.
Difficulty names should always resemble the difficulty, so there's no ambiguity or confusion. Star rating usually indicates the difficulty, yes (if it didn't, custom names like that wouldn't have survived at all), but it's still not accurate... and besides, the difficulty name, as its name implies, should name the difficulty properly!
...I see this has all been discussed though, so maybe I'm just repeating everything here.
You can know the hardest by knowing some latin (Telos means Endless).
By knowing some mythology, you can know almost all difficulties:
Orpheus, you know his story ( he descended in hell to recover his lover Eurydice )
Orthrus, the mythical child of Nyx, brother to Cerberus, Sphinx and Chimera, that was slain by Hercules ( so, after a "normal" human, there is a mythical beast)
Thanatos, the God of the Peacefull Death and Eternal Sleep (another child of Nyx) (pretty logical)
Asura is taken from hinduist, buddhist, vedic and zoroastrianic. Referring to Vedic, King of asuras, and Zoroastrian, mispelling of Ahura Mazda, much like YHVH for Cristians. (Remember Soul Eater Asura too)
Orpheus Telos - as Telos means Endless, and Orpheus received a gold lyre from Apollo
Another way:
The Star Rating order: I made it all to preserve the order of the difficulties.
This doesn't deserve a rule. Neither a Guideline maybe.
By knowing some mythology, you can know almost all difficulties:
Orpheus, you know his story ( he descended in hell to recover his lover Eurydice )
Orthrus, the mythical child of Nyx, brother to Cerberus, Sphinx and Chimera, that was slain by Hercules ( so, after a "normal" human, there is a mythical beast)
Thanatos, the God of the Peacefull Death and Eternal Sleep (another child of Nyx) (pretty logical)
Asura is taken from hinduist, buddhist, vedic and zoroastrianic. Referring to Vedic, King of asuras, and Zoroastrian, mispelling of Ahura Mazda, much like YHVH for Cristians. (Remember Soul Eater Asura too)
Orpheus Telos - as Telos means Endless, and Orpheus received a gold lyre from Apollo
Another way:
The Star Rating order: I made it all to preserve the order of the difficulties.
This doesn't deserve a rule. Neither a Guideline maybe.
Seconding this. Character names or whatever as difficulty names look really dumb to me but if they're in order by difficulty then it's nothing to really care about.mm201 wrote:
If the star ratings are accurate, gimmick difficulty names should be okay. If not, you really shouldn't.
HakuNoKaemi: If your difficulty names require an explanation that long then that means they are terrible as difficulty names (and I say this as somebody who has played Persona). I don't think there should be a rule against you doing that but come on now...
the Orpheus-Thanatos-Orpheus Telos line is comprensible by anyone who followed the Persona storyline and really completed the game, Orthrus and Asura are just in between them.
That one explanation is better?
or even
"Just watch the Personae Compendiae"
That one explanation is better?
or even
"Just watch the Personae Compendiae"
I've got an idea: Let mappers order the difficulties in their beatmap manually if the star sorting doesn't do it right. Then it doesn't matter what the difficulty names are at all.
maybe will be doable in osz2, but if a map it's more a group of difficulty with same Artist, Song and Mapper... I see it difficult (talking on organization-side)
I'd much rather a diff named after the mapper if it's a guest mapper than have it named by difficulty. Also maps often have 2 difficulties of similar difficulty but a different style (streams vs jumps) and you can always just look at stars or high scores to determine difficulty levels if in doubt. Or you can actually just play the map, the difficulty of a diff named "insane" already varies wildly.
If anything should be done, it should be this.Drakari wrote:
I've got an idea: Let mappers order the difficulties in their beatmap manually if the star sorting doesn't do it right. Then it doesn't matter what the difficulty names are at all.
like not me.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
comprehensible by anyone who followed the Persona storyline
The problem is this: what difficulty corresponds to beginner, easy, normal, hard, insane, expert? You should be able to point out from each individual difficulty the osu! analogous difficulty (this is actually quite useful in multi-player where you do not have the benefit of seeing more than one difficulty or even the star rating).
If I were to make a BG2 mapset, and were to name my difficulties after the bosses, what would be the osu! difficulty of [Yaga-Shura]? It's impossible, even for people who know the game for a thousand different reasons.
IMO weezy's way is perfect and anyone who thinks otherwise is just whining about some stupid minor detail that doesn't affect the gameplay in the slightest and makes the beatmap confusing to more people.
i agree with ziin and gens.
its even more annoying when its just the mapper's name and nothing else. the difficulty names should make sense to ALL players who play the map. not just the ones have have played/watched the source. if you really MUST add some random difficulty name in, then just do what weezy does, its maybe 5 seconds work tops
its even more annoying when its just the mapper's name and nothing else. the difficulty names should make sense to ALL players who play the map. not just the ones have have played/watched the source. if you really MUST add some random difficulty name in, then just do what weezy does, its maybe 5 seconds work tops
I read through this thread... And here's what I propose:
There should be a way to tell easily which difficulty is what. For custom names, some knowledge about the source of the song might be required, but the naming should be objective.This allows things like my DKC maps, naming like "o1o o2o o3o" and other ideas like this (still allow NatsumeRin's highest difficulties names), but would get rid of names completely unrelated to anything (character names, for instance).
It'd also be nice to have Taiko maps clearly indicated.
Sometimes it's a bit awkward.
Sometimes it's a bit awkward.
Included in the above wording.
This map would be in the category "Screw the people that don't really know K-ON!" since the Ritsu diff is Taiko. The only hint about this being a taiko would be the amount of circles... But noone pay attention about those stats >.>Mr Color wrote:
It'd also be nice to have Taiko maps clearly indicated.
Sometimes it's a bit awkward.
I don't have any other map in mind but this kind of maps would confuse every other player (Main Standard/CTB) but Taiko players.
Agree with Odaril
What's wrong with weezy's naming scheme anyway? Why don't you people put the actual difficulty in the name?
That's not against Odaril version of the guideline as it clearly says the difficulty ( PG's Easy/Normal/Hard/Insane and so )
As HakuNoKaemi said, my version completely allows that.ziin wrote:
What's wrong with weezy's naming scheme anyway?
It doesn't always sound as good as Weezy's. "Barrel Bayou Easy" "Knockhead Klamber Normal" "Mudhole Marsh Hard" sounds terrible.ziin wrote:
Why don't you people put the actual difficulty in the name?
(though what I could have done is "lvl 1: Barrel Bayou" "lvl 2: Knockhead Klamber" "lvl 3: Mudhole Marsh")
My major problem is that in multiplayer you are not given any context other than the difficulty name as to how hard the map is. This makes finding a multiplayer room harder for me. Anything that impedes my gameplay is an annoyance and should be fixed if possible.Odaril wrote:
It doesn't always sound as good as Weezy's. "Barrel Bayou Easy" "Knockhead Klamber Normal" "Mudhole Marsh Hard" sounds terrible.
Beginner's Barrel Bayou
Medium Mudhole Marsh
Krazy Knockhead Klamber
Rin-sane
I just don't like your version because it can still rely on context or knowledge about the source. I also know I am being over-particular. I don't agree with your rule because I want an all or nothing solution.
I laughed at Rin-sane
I still think this is a Guideline more than a rule.
Anyway, in my cause the thing I can do is adding Persona level and Arcanae to the name, (01. Fool Orpheus or Fool Orpheus - Lv.01)
I still think this is a Guideline more than a rule.
Anyway, in my cause the thing I can do is adding Persona level and Arcanae to the name, (01. Fool Orpheus or Fool Orpheus - Lv.01)
Keeping it as a guideline sounds fine, but modders (everyone) need to stop mappers from using diff names that don't make sense.
For what it's worth, I've played all 3 Donkey Kong Country games and could never remember the order, or even the names, of the different levels.
numbering based on a scale of 5 on what you truly think the star rating is would not be a bad idea if you opt out of some other universally recognizable naming scheme.
You cannot remember something now and remember when you see it. Otherwise is just like you don't had played it...mm201 wrote:
For what it's worth, I've played all 3 Donkey Kong Country games and could never remember the order, or even the names, of the different levels.
The naming scheme is anyway only somewhat indicative, and if the difficulty are in the right order, you can "know" what difficulty is easier and harder.
So there's no need in enforcing it as a rule or making it a "Hard" guideline that somewhat restrict liberty...
Huh, since when you haven't played something when you cant remember the level names or their order, i rarely even pay attention to level names on this game, but going this way is offtopic anyways.
As Gens has stated custom difficulty names was made so that we could use different difficulty naming convetions like DDR's and Touhou's (only difference in Touhou is Insane = Lunatic), there's no need to go out of the way and using names that no one can tell what difficulty it is without prior knowledge of the source (or not tell what it is at all).
As Gens has stated custom difficulty names was made so that we could use different difficulty naming convetions like DDR's and Touhou's (only difference in Touhou is Insane = Lunatic), there's no need to go out of the way and using names that no one can tell what difficulty it is without prior knowledge of the source (or not tell what it is at all).
Making examples inherent the rules or the guidelines is in topic anyway.
In if you're making a rule that prevent custon names from being linked to the source and having sense, you can't enforce it as a Rule like what Gens or Larto said.
In if you're making a rule that prevent custon names from being linked to the source and having sense, you can't enforce it as a Rule like what Gens or Larto said.
This.Odaril wrote:
Keeping it as a guideline sounds fine, but modders (everyone) need to stop mappers from using diff names that don't make sense.
however. would this also apply to approved maps when there are normally only insane rated maps?
I don't think you need to know the difficulty of an approved map, as it's standardly rated "Insane" moreover.
So ... no?
So ... no?
I'm repeating what I said (because I think it's the best thing to do, seeing the reactions in this thread).deadbeat wrote:
This.Odaril wrote:
Keeping it as a guideline sounds fine, but modders (everyone) need to stop mappers from using diff names that don't make sense.
however. would this also apply to approved maps when there are normally only insane rated maps?
As for approval maps, I don't think it's needed. Most are just a bundle of diffs way above Insane - difficulty becomes irrelevant.
Also, please, stop using "Taiko" as a diff name for a Taiko diff. This is one of the things I wish modders would hunt down.
Kantan, Futsuu, Muzukashi, Oni and Inner Oni as Taiko name? Ok-
I don't really mind diffs being called just "Taiko" because 99% of the time that just means Oni. Muzukashii and below are pretty much all labeled as such and Oni covers such a huge range of difficulties (compare 5* with 10* Oni for example) that adding the difficulty really wouldn't change anything.
Though I would appreciate if people would add a rough estimate of the star level to differentiate the easy and hard Onis
Though I would appreciate if people would add a rough estimate of the star level to differentiate the easy and hard Onis
so something like like <mapper>'s level 15 taiko
or something along those lines?
or something along those lines?
while that would be nice, it's not necessary, especially because it's actually quantifying a star rating. Unless there is a way to always get an accurate picture of the real star rating with taiko, it would just be the mapper/modder recommendation for rating.
[insane] is fairly vague when it comes to what difficulty it actually is.
[insane] is fairly vague when it comes to what difficulty it actually is.
Well, TnT has set good standards for Star Ratings. If I play a map I can determine the star rating quite accurately even though I'm not a very good Taiko player. The differences between a 6* or 7* Oni are usually already pretty noticable, 8* and higher is even easier to determine.
Sure there's some unclear cases with complicated patterns but very low BPM or something like that where the level could be either one of two, but it's generally quite possible to get an accurate rating.
I wouldn't want to force mappers to include it in the diff name, but it would be cool if some of them did it regardless
Sure there's some unclear cases with complicated patterns but very low BPM or something like that where the level could be either one of two, but it's generally quite possible to get an accurate rating.
I wouldn't want to force mappers to include it in the diff name, but it would be cool if some of them did it regardless
+ Inner KantanHakuNoKaemi wrote:
Kantan, Futsuu, Muzukashi, Oni and Inner Oni as Taiko name? Ok-
+ Inner Futsuu
+ Inner Muzukashii
those who feel REALLY left out. (Though IK and IF would be even rarer than K and F.)
Bump!
So what's the status of the discussion for this rule?
So what's the status of the discussion for this rule?
Maybe not really a rule, but a heads up for mappers to use solid difficulty names. so not maps where its only characters names or mapper names. And modders should also take a bit of time to see if the names are appropriate
This means that people should be able to tell the difficulty without having to look at all the other difficulties.
This means that people should be able to tell the difficulty without having to look at all the other difficulties.
rule is too vague, guideline is overkill (guidelines shouldn't be broken willy nilly). Nuke the rule. Modding will catch stupid crap like [hard] being more difficult than [Another]. If we have a recommendation section, that's where this goes.ziin wrote:
Not having a clear picture of the difficulty from just one map is somewhat annoying when trying to join a multiplayer game.
I approve what ziin says. a Guideline for this type of proposals is sure an overkill.ziin wrote:
rule is too vague, guideline is overkill (guidelines shouldn't be broken willy nilly). Nuke the rule. Modding will catch stupid crap like [hard] being more difficult than [Another]. If we have a recommendation section, that's where this goes.
What about diffs like "loli" ":D" and that kind of retarded name that doesn't make sense ?ziin wrote:
rule is too vague, guideline is overkill (guidelines shouldn't be broken willy nilly). Nuke the rule. Modding will catch stupid crap like [hard] being more difficult than [Another]. If we have a recommendation section, that's where this goes.ziin wrote:
Not having a clear picture of the difficulty from just one map is somewhat annoying when trying to join a multiplayer game.
":D" as a diff name is just stupid really :/Odaril wrote:
What about diffs like "loli" ":D" and that kind of retarded name that doesn't make sense ?
What about diff names that it's just the mapper's name and that's it... or even worse mapper's Taiko, without any specification to what difficulty level it is, specially since we will be allowing a greater number of difficulties soon so that Taiko can have more difficulty levels in a mapset.
dependOdaril wrote:
What about diffs like "loli" ":D" and that kind of retarded name that doesn't make sense ?ziin wrote:
rule is too vague, guideline is overkill (guidelines shouldn't be broken willy nilly). Nuke the rule. Modding will catch stupid crap like [hard] being more difficult than [Another]. If we have a recommendation section, that's where this goes.
if we have fur example a naming linked to the age, to the size or so, it make sense.
Anyway, we have a thousand modders, why don't depend on them?
If the difficulty names were along the lines of, "Loli, Jailbait, Legal, MILF", then maybe it could work...
legenmm201 wrote:
If the difficulty names were along the lines of, "Loli, Jailbait, Legal, MILF", then maybe it could work...
...
wait for it
...
wait for it
...
DARY!!!
oh and the diff names for equestria girls are awesome!
-1 no support for this!
the star system exists for a reason folks. It may not be accurate, but there is no method of ranking difficulty that is very accurate, unless we go on the ELO scale.
I look at this rule from this perspective:
The rule is designed to make sure everyone knows how hard a difficulty is with respect to other beatmaps based on the name alone. Unless we standardize names and completely remove custom names, this is impossible to achieve.
When playing, the name of the difficulty has no effect on the player whatsoever. This is a rule that exists entirely outside actual gameplay. It is entirely unimportant, which is why a lot of people choose to ignore being helpful, since it really doesn't matter. If you want, think of it like nazi modding, except that nazi modding actually has a gameplay purpose.
We can't really stop it because the line is too vague, and the option exists. we also have BATs who don't care either, making the situation much harder. In the case of a deadlock, it's better to keep the status quo than to change things. It's certainly good practice to use logical difficulty names, but trying to force them is ridiculous.
I look at this rule from this perspective:
The rule is designed to make sure everyone knows how hard a difficulty is with respect to other beatmaps based on the name alone. Unless we standardize names and completely remove custom names, this is impossible to achieve.
When playing, the name of the difficulty has no effect on the player whatsoever. This is a rule that exists entirely outside actual gameplay. It is entirely unimportant, which is why a lot of people choose to ignore being helpful, since it really doesn't matter. If you want, think of it like nazi modding, except that nazi modding actually has a gameplay purpose.
We can't really stop it because the line is too vague, and the option exists. we also have BATs who don't care either, making the situation much harder. In the case of a deadlock, it's better to keep the status quo than to change things. It's certainly good practice to use logical difficulty names, but trying to force them is ridiculous.
Post of the year.ziin wrote:
the star system exists for a reason folks. It may not be accurate, but there is no method of ranking difficulty that is very accurate, unless we go on the ELO scale.
I look at this rule from this perspective:
The rule is designed to make sure everyone knows how hard a difficulty is with respect to other beatmaps based on the name alone. Unless we standardize names and completely remove custom names, this is impossible to achieve.
When playing, the name of the difficulty has no effect on the player whatsoever. This is a rule that exists entirely outside actual gameplay. It is entirely unimportant, which is why a lot of people choose to ignore being helpful, since it really doesn't matter. If you want, think of it like nazi modding, except that nazi modding actually has a gameplay purpose.
We can't really stop it because the line is too vague, and the option exists. we also have BATs who don't care either, making the situation much harder. In the case of a deadlock, it's better to keep the status quo than to change things. It's certainly good practice to use logical difficulty names, but trying to force them is ridiculous.
+1Natteke wrote:
Post of the year.
Crazy things down here
How about making the mapper choosing the Star Rating of the diff?
1/2 = Beginner
1 = Easy
2 = Normal
3 = Hard
4 = Insane
5 = Extra
6 = Improbable ( fur Approved )
You'll remove the problems of the star rating... and make more the diff have a personal name and be without problems
How about making the mapper choosing the Star Rating of the diff?
1/2 = Beginner
1 = Easy
2 = Normal
3 = Hard
4 = Insane
5 = Extra
6 = Improbable ( fur Approved )
You'll remove the problems of the star rating... and make more the diff have a personal name and be without problems
Go into a mutli room, find a difficulty called Cake which is 5 stars, i know i can play many Insanes but not the super effing Hard ones, both are usually 5 stars, how will i know if it's too hard for me or not?ziin wrote:
the star system exists for a reason folks. It may not be accurate, but there is no method of ranking difficulty that is very accurate, unless we go on the ELO scale.
Better yet, i go into a multi room find a diff called "Taiko" which is 5 stars, how can i know if it's an oni or a muzukashii?
Just play it once? Is it really that hard? maybe you want mappers to put description of every jump and stream in the map?Sakura Hana wrote:
Go into a mutli room, find a difficulty called Cake which is 5 stars, i know i can play many Insanes but not the super effing Hard ones, both are usually 5 stars, how will i know if it's too hard for me or not?ziin wrote:
the star system exists for a reason folks. It may not be accurate, but there is no method of ranking difficulty that is very accurate, unless we go on the ELO scale.
Better yet, i go into a multi room find a diff called "Taiko" which is 5 stars, how can i know if it's an oni or a muzukashii?
DeletedUser_910779
I haven't seen the first game other than osu! that doesn't use some regulated naming for difficulties, this is the first game in which you can have difficulty selection between Easy, Astonishing and Cake.
We are not talking about gameplay here, we are talking about the fact that this is a game, not paint.net
We are not talking about gameplay here, we are talking about the fact that this is a game, not paint.net
idk I've never had a big issues with names
reproposingHakuNoKaemi wrote:
Crazy things down here
How about making the mapper choosing the Star Rating of the diff?
1/2 = Beginner
1 = Easy
2 = Normal
3 = Hard
4 = Insane
5 = Extra
6 = Improbable ( fur Approved )
You'll remove the problems of the star rating... and make more the diff have a personal name and be without problems
I doubt mappers will ever be able to manually set the star rating by themselves.
I wish I'd have seen this earlier. - I hope I don't repeat someone.
I'm for Sakura Hanas opinion, also because such diff names sometimes dosen't look like nice at all and makes just... yes really no sense and in osu! the Taiko diff's are mainly Onis, that's true. But I remember when I've begun with this game, I tryed to find muzukashiis, but it was allready hard enough to find them, because some of those diffs got another name, like Sakura Hana said: ,,Taiko".
It's not specific enough and gives the mapset not a smooth sight. When people want to search for an Insane, they don't type in "lolipop", they rather type in ,,Insane", that's what makes diff finding so hard. Nattekes point is not bad at all, people can test it, yes, but they don't remember every diff.. So we can say testing <-//-> searching/finding are two different things in different time periodes.
But there are also two other cases you need to concider about:
1. What would you say about maps, which diff names are not the normal one, but shows or indicate it with there names?
There was a map which diffs were called ,,yeah", ,,yeah yeah" and ,,yeah yeah yeah". Probably easy to figure out what is hard and what is easy.
- But the searching makes it hard again.
2. What are you going to do about some mapper diff's name? Should this be allowed?
- Personally I would say that this should be some exeption, since I don't see why the diff names should be restricted so hard. So or so many mappers are known with there own diff-names.
So we could put two opinions into one solution. One opinion of calling the diff's just Easy, Normal, Hard, Insane, etc.. and one opinion calling the diff's how the mappers want.
So my mapset would be for example like this:
Opinion of using normal diff names
- Normal
- Hard
- Insane
- Taiko Muzukashii
- Taiko Oni
Opinion of using custom diff names
- Taikosaki
So Odarils opinion would fit good:
I'm for Sakura Hanas opinion, also because such diff names sometimes dosen't look like nice at all and makes just... yes really no sense and in osu! the Taiko diff's are mainly Onis, that's true. But I remember when I've begun with this game, I tryed to find muzukashiis, but it was allready hard enough to find them, because some of those diffs got another name, like Sakura Hana said: ,,Taiko".
It's not specific enough and gives the mapset not a smooth sight. When people want to search for an Insane, they don't type in "lolipop", they rather type in ,,Insane", that's what makes diff finding so hard. Nattekes point is not bad at all, people can test it, yes, but they don't remember every diff.. So we can say testing <-//-> searching/finding are two different things in different time periodes.
But there are also two other cases you need to concider about:
1. What would you say about maps, which diff names are not the normal one, but shows or indicate it with there names?
There was a map which diffs were called ,,yeah", ,,yeah yeah" and ,,yeah yeah yeah". Probably easy to figure out what is hard and what is easy.
- But the searching makes it hard again.
2. What are you going to do about some mapper diff's name? Should this be allowed?
- Personally I would say that this should be some exeption, since I don't see why the diff names should be restricted so hard. So or so many mappers are known with there own diff-names.
So we could put two opinions into one solution. One opinion of calling the diff's just Easy, Normal, Hard, Insane, etc.. and one opinion calling the diff's how the mappers want.
So my mapset would be for example like this:
Opinion of using normal diff names
- Normal
- Hard
- Insane
- Taiko Muzukashii
- Taiko Oni
Opinion of using custom diff names
- Taikosaki
So Odarils opinion would fit good:
I will mentione this in the Taiko Rule Thread, too.Odaril wrote:
Keeping it as a guideline sounds fine, [...]
Taiko mappers do.Sakura Hana wrote:
I doubt mappers will ever be able to manually set the star rating by themselves.
"Tree" would be an okay difficulty name if the difficulties went -
Seed
Sapling
Plant
Bush
Tree
;D
Seed
Sapling
Plant
Bush
Tree
;D
I'd prefer the star rating in a numerical form listed before the difficulty name. If star rating is not accurate, it is a bug and should be fixed. If the bug can't be fixed, a bat supported manual override would be acceptable, especially to fix the silly rhythm-complexity-is-really-hard part of the star rating.
"Loli, Jailbait, Legal, MILF" is still confusing. Which one is the hardest difficulty? The one that gets you put in prison and makes you register as a sex offender? Or is it the cougar? How hard is it compared to one of La Cataline's Hard difficulties (which are notoriously more difficult than, say, ykcarrot's insanes)?
I'll say it again--unless we force specific difficulty names, nothing will be solved. On top of that, we can't retroactively change all the previous maps.
"Loli, Jailbait, Legal, MILF" is still confusing. Which one is the hardest difficulty? The one that gets you put in prison and makes you register as a sex offender? Or is it the cougar? How hard is it compared to one of La Cataline's Hard difficulties (which are notoriously more difficult than, say, ykcarrot's insanes)?
I'll say it again--unless we force specific difficulty names, nothing will be solved. On top of that, we can't retroactively change all the previous maps.
ummm play the damn map? if you fail, doesn't matter, if you pass, good job it's not too hard for you.Sakura Hana wrote:
Go into a mutli room, find a difficulty called Cake which is 5 stars, i know i can play many Insanes but not the super effing Hard ones, both are usually 5 stars, how will i know if it's too hard for me or not?
Better yet, i go into a multi room find a diff called "Taiko" which is 5 stars, how can i know if it's an oni or a muzukashii?
Mercurial
That isn't the point...YodaSnipe wrote:
ummm play the damn map? if you fail, doesn't matter, if you pass, good job it's not too hard for you.Sakura Hana wrote:
Go into a mutli room, find a difficulty called Cake which is 5 stars, i know i can play many Insanes but not the super effing Hard ones, both are usually 5 stars, how will i know if it's too hard for me or not?
Better yet, i go into a multi room find a diff called "Taiko" which is 5 stars, how can i know if it's an oni or a muzukashii?
The point is, she was in multi. so it doesn't really matter at all. Unless she's one of those idiots who won't play maps too hard for her. /lame