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[Rule/Guideline Change] Custom hitsounds in Taiko

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Total Posts
24
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
MMzz
Because we can do multiple hitsound presets in taiko now. p/3742171 Some adjustments need to be made to the ranking criteria.

A new rule should be written along the lines of: (Suggest revisions to the wording if you want to try and make it more clear!)
  • "Do not use hitsound presets to recreate the song you are mapping. (Also known as key sounding)"

For those of you who are unclear on what "key sounding" is. It is a common hitsounding style used in osu!mania where there is a blank MP3 file and the notes you hit create the music as you play. This is available because of the unlimited number of hitsound presets available. Obviously, this is something you should never do in Taiko. Key sounding a taiko map results in no clear hitsound for your drum hits, rather your drum hits accounting for everything in the music. So this needs to be a rule, not a guideline.

This current guideline should be made into a rule as well. (No rewording needed.)
  • "Custom hitsounds must be drum-related. If custom hitsounds are used, they should have deeper/lower tone set as don and a higher/lighter tone as kat."

This should not be optional. Hitsounds must be drum related and have a difference in pitch. (High for kat, low for don like the current guideline states.) There are no "special circumstances" that will allow you to ever have an abstract or opposite pitch hitsound. (Opposite pitch meaning having a very high pitched don sound or low pitched kat sound. Abstract meaning something not drum related, etc.) So this should also be a rule.
Love
osu! Alumni
1,267 posts
Joined August 2010
Love
Looks alright to me, I'll try to think of something a bit clearer if I can.
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those

MMzz wrote:

Because we can do multiple hitsound presets in taiko now.
Finally.

This looks clean.
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
Looks good, hoping to see some interesting custom samples used in the near distant future
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
Wording looks fine to me.
Bara-
11,955 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Are samples like Gigantic O.T.N. and Maware good to use for Kat on maps with the same style?
I kinda disagree with the second rule, because I think all hitsounds can be used, as long as they make sense
thank me for asking for this feature plz (taiko custom hitsounds) :P
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,812 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
Does the change refer to the general rules or rather as addition to the current Taiko rule set? If so, I see no problem to add it. But I wonder if it's really needed. The more rules we add the lazier / bugged / forced people might feel when looking at it. And this one seems to be rather obvious? Or did something like that happen already? In any case, keeping the Taiko rules / guidelines as short as possible would be something I encourage to think about. But if it is seen as important addition by community, we can go for it. In the past we had the rule anyway until it got removed by osu-people.


Justified rule propose. But if it's really needed, I don't know. I will give it some time before I take any action and see what people gonna say.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
What about finisher hitsounds? They play both normal and their finish hitsound. It's possible to have really nice and unique sounds for them, but the rule would prevent that.
Obviously if used correctly and in moderation could be fine?
Love
osu! Alumni
1,267 posts
Joined August 2010
Love
There's a few scenarios where the second proposal would be a little issue. Such as a part of the map could have just hi-hats and snares more emphasized than the kicks and snares, which the hi-hats will be the higher pitch kats and the snares will be the lower pitch dons. But the same can be used vice-versa when using the dons as hi-hats and kats as snares, which might actually be a problem. The hi-hats will obviously be a higher pitch than a snare. Any other thoughts?
Bara-
11,955 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Maybe not appropriate, but I'm still gonna ask
Are the hitsounds in this map fine, or not drum-related enough?
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/281965
An example might help good with setting some proper criteria :P
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,812 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
Let's find an agreement here. Does anyone else has something to say about this? What MMzz requests sounds reasonable and in this way we are on the safer side anyway. I will give this a week until I give it a bubble.
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
Any more words to say on this? Been more than a week - if nothing else is to be said lets bubble it.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,812 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
We can actually give this already a bubble. I forgot to put it on last time. Thanks Lust. lol
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
I see no possible option to make the second purpose happen. We discussed with the same exact arguments back then and we concluded that making this a hard rule will forbid certain things completely which could turn out nicely in special circumstances, which did not happen yet but might be (where have all the creative people gone? :( ).
A guideline implies that it still must be followed in most cases you encounter, however there might be maps that warrant and exception. Just because we did not see a valid case for proper usage yet, it does not mean that we have to forbid it entirely. The arguments for forbidding it completely are insufficient.

The first thing looks fine on first glance, but I am not entirely sure. I see that taiko is a drumming simulator, but argumenting that "taiko must always be drum" is like just an argument coming out of conservative mind sets rather than factual technical reasons. The more I think about it, the less I see this happen - at least as hard rule.

I need to discuss this with others. Forbidding key sounding itself is maybe the wrong approach. Maybe you want to approach it via the nature of the game having two colors as gameplay elements and that their hitsound must be unique in a map. Or something like that.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,812 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
Actually you said it already. Taiko is a drum game, hence I'm rather the opinion of the other guys that it should be drum oriented. But beside that, from personal opinion, I don't mind it that much at all, making it a rule or keeping it as guideline. Does anyone else have to add something to this?
Dainesl
898 posts
Joined May 2012
Dainesl
I would rather this be a guideline instead of a hard rule. Like some others have mentioned, creativity could be moderately stifled if we were to make this a hard rule due to some songs not working that well with hard drum sounds alone. Yes, non-drum sounds should be used in moderation and Taiko is indeed a very drum-oriented mode, but if the option was there I don't feel as if it would harm anyone, in fact I believe that it would allow for creative combinations that someone will soon take advantage of (seeing as how there are plenty of people who can make excellent hitsounds for maps), so I think that the drum-only aspect of customs shouldn't be set in stone. That's just my two cents though.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

OnosakiHito wrote:

Actually you said it already. Taiko is a drum game, hence I'm rather the opinion of the other guys that it should be drum oriented. But beside that, from personal opinion, I don't mind it that much at all, making it a rule or keeping it as guideline. Does anyone else have to add something to this?

Dainesl wrote:

I would rather this be a guideline instead of a hard rule. Like some others have mentioned, creativity could be moderately stifled if we were to make this a hard rule due to some songs not working that well with hard drum sounds alone. Yes, non-drum sounds should be used in moderation and Taiko is indeed a very drum-oriented mode, but if the option was there I don't feel as if it would harm anyone, in fact I believe that it would allow for creative combinations that someone will soon take advantage of (seeing as how there are plenty of people who can make excellent hitsounds for maps), so I think that the drum-only aspect of customs shouldn't be set in stone. That's just my two cents though.
Here I agree with both Ono and Dain. I think it should rather stay as a guideline, otherwise the hitsounding will become too repetitive and creative hitsounders will be discouraged. I do agree with MMzz in the fact that this is supposed to be a drum related game and therefore custom hitsounds should be somewhat limited, but the limits should be really wide, as there are many custom hitsounds that sound like drums. I see no problem on making a rule of this since I don't use custom hitsounds, but still...
Redon
302 posts
Joined November 2013
Redon
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Last edited by Redon , edited 1 time in total.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,812 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
Does anyone else have something to add here? I will pop the bubble since there is still no conclusion. Some people think it should be a rule since it is a drum oriented game and hence, should have drum sounds. Others say, it should stay as guideline to give Taiko the possibility having more varity in sounding.
Bara-
11,955 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
I also think it should be a guideline
There will probably be discussions on whether or not certain samples are drum based
Especially if you don't know much about it, and just pick custom samples cause they fit the song, not the drums
This mostly applies to oriental music, where certain sounds are better of not being drumbased to give a better feel to the map

Oh, and variation never hurts right?
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