Because we can do multiple hitsound presets in taiko now. p/3742171 Some adjustments need to be made to the ranking criteria.

A new rule should be written along the lines of: (Suggest revisions to the wording if you want to try and make it more clear!)

For those of you who are unclear on what "key sounding" is. It is a common hitsounding style used in osu!mania where there is a blank MP3 file and the notes you hit create the music as you play. This is available because of the unlimited number of hitsound presets available. Obviously, this is something you should never do in Taiko. Key sounding a taiko map results in no clear hitsound for your drum hits, rather your drum hits accounting for everything in the music. So this needs to be a rule, not a guideline.

This current guideline should be made into a rule as well. (No rewording needed.)

This should not be optional. Hitsounds must be drum related and have a difference in pitch. (High for kat, low for don like the current guideline states.) There are no "special circumstances" that will allow you to ever have an abstract or opposite pitch hitsound. (Opposite pitch meaning having a very high pitched don sound or low pitched kat sound. Abstract meaning something not drum related, etc.) So this should also be a rule.

Looks alright to me, I'll try to think of something a bit clearer if I can.

MMzz wrote:

Because we can do multiple hitsound presets in taiko now.

Finally.

This looks clean.

Looks good, hoping to see some interesting custom samples used in the near distant future

Wording looks fine to me.

Are samples like Gigantic O.T.N. and Maware good to use for Kat on maps with the same style?
I kinda disagree with the second rule, because I think all hitsounds can be used, as long as they make sense
thank me for asking for this feature plz (taiko custom hitsounds)

Does the change refer to the general rules or rather as addition to the current Taiko rule set? If so, I see no problem to add it. But I wonder if it's really needed. The more rules we add the lazier / bugged / forced people might feel when looking at it. And this one seems to be rather obvious? Or did something like that happen already? In any case, keeping the Taiko rules / guidelines as short as possible would be something I encourage to think about. But if it is seen as important addition by community, we can go for it. In the past we had the rule anyway until it got removed by osu-people.


Justified rule propose. But if it's really needed, I don't know. I will give it some time before I take any action and see what people gonna say.

What about finisher hitsounds? They play both normal and their finish hitsound. It's possible to have really nice and unique sounds for them, but the rule would prevent that.
Obviously if used correctly and in moderation could be fine?

There's a few scenarios where the second proposal would be a little issue. Such as a part of the map could have just hi-hats and snares more emphasized than the kicks and snares, which the hi-hats will be the higher pitch kats and the snares will be the lower pitch dons. But the same can be used vice-versa when using the dons as hi-hats and kats as snares, which might actually be a problem. The hi-hats will obviously be a higher pitch than a snare. Any other thoughts?

Maybe not appropriate, but I'm still gonna ask
Are the hitsounds in this map fine, or not drum-related enough?
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/281965
An example might help good with setting some proper criteria

Let's find an agreement here. Does anyone else has something to say about this? What MMzz requests sounds reasonable and in this way we are on the safer side anyway. I will give this a week until I give it a bubble.

Any more words to say on this? Been more than a week - if nothing else is to be said lets bubble it.

We can actually give this already a bubble. I forgot to put it on last time. Thanks Lust. lol

I see no possible option to make the second purpose happen. We discussed with the same exact arguments back then and we concluded that making this a hard rule will forbid certain things completely which could turn out nicely in special circumstances, which did not happen yet but might be (where have all the creative people gone? ).
A guideline implies that it still must be followed in most cases you encounter, however there might be maps that warrant and exception. Just because we did not see a valid case for proper usage yet, it does not mean that we have to forbid it entirely. The arguments for forbidding it completely are insufficient.

The first thing looks fine on first glance, but I am not entirely sure. I see that taiko is a drumming simulator, but argumenting that "taiko must always be drum" is like just an argument coming out of conservative mind sets rather than factual technical reasons. The more I think about it, the less I see this happen - at least as hard rule.

I need to discuss this with others. Forbidding key sounding itself is maybe the wrong approach. Maybe you want to approach it via the nature of the game having two colors as gameplay elements and that their hitsound must be unique in a map. Or something like that.

Actually you said it already. Taiko is a drum game, hence I'm rather the opinion of the other guys that it should be drum oriented. But beside that, from personal opinion, I don't mind it that much at all, making it a rule or keeping it as guideline. Does anyone else have to add something to this?

I would rather this be a guideline instead of a hard rule. Like some others have mentioned, creativity could be moderately stifled if we were to make this a hard rule due to some songs not working that well with hard drum sounds alone. Yes, non-drum sounds should be used in moderation and Taiko is indeed a very drum-oriented mode, but if the option was there I don't feel as if it would harm anyone, in fact I believe that it would allow for creative combinations that someone will soon take advantage of (seeing as how there are plenty of people who can make excellent hitsounds for maps), so I think that the drum-only aspect of customs shouldn't be set in stone. That's just my two cents though.

OnosakiHito wrote:

Actually you said it already. Taiko is a drum game, hence I'm rather the opinion of the other guys that it should be drum oriented. But beside that, from personal opinion, I don't mind it that much at all, making it a rule or keeping it as guideline. Does anyone else have to add something to this?

Dainesl wrote:

I would rather this be a guideline instead of a hard rule. Like some others have mentioned, creativity could be moderately stifled if we were to make this a hard rule due to some songs not working that well with hard drum sounds alone. Yes, non-drum sounds should be used in moderation and Taiko is indeed a very drum-oriented mode, but if the option was there I don't feel as if it would harm anyone, in fact I believe that it would allow for creative combinations that someone will soon take advantage of (seeing as how there are plenty of people who can make excellent hitsounds for maps), so I think that the drum-only aspect of customs shouldn't be set in stone. That's just my two cents though.

Here I agree with both Ono and Dain. I think it should rather stay as a guideline, otherwise the hitsounding will become too repetitive and creative hitsounders will be discouraged. I do agree with MMzz in the fact that this is supposed to be a drum related game and therefore custom hitsounds should be somewhat limited, but the limits should be really wide, as there are many custom hitsounds that sound like drums. I see no problem on making a rule of this since I don't use custom hitsounds, but still...

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Does anyone else have something to add here? I will pop the bubble since there is still no conclusion. Some people think it should be a rule since it is a drum oriented game and hence, should have drum sounds. Others say, it should stay as guideline to give Taiko the possibility having more varity in sounding.

I also think it should be a guideline
There will probably be discussions on whether or not certain samples are drum based
Especially if you don't know much about it, and just pick custom samples cause they fit the song, not the drums
This mostly applies to oriental music, where certain sounds are better of not being drumbased to give a better feel to the map

Oh, and variation never hurts right?

Asking one more time whether someone has something to say about this, else I am moving this into denided. And people can suggest the change in future again if needed.

Well I would have no voice over this since I don't usually use customs, but I do suggest sticking to default Normal samplesets.

It'd be fine as a guideline to make them strictly drum-related since this is a drum game though.

This should be revived and reviewed.

There is one very obvious problem here left, which is that currently it's possible to have custom hit sounds in 2 different scenarios, and automatically break and pass the rule of no custom hit sounds at the same time. Call me technical, but these rules should be polished as much as possible, "common sense" is not enough for today's time.

1) a player is using a taiko skin with taiko drum hitsounds (from TnT), and the default hit sounds are being enforced. This is automatically allowed since the client's sounds are always allowed as the default

2) a player is using the client's default skin, and the taiko hitsounds are being enforced. This is automatically allowed since by some unwritten rule we are using the taiko skin as the base for everything nowadays.

By the above logic, a mapset could use both of these sound sets in the same map legally, which logically leads to the question:
Why not allow custom hit sounding anyway, as long as the sounds are drum/percussion related?

The rule should state that a heavier sound must be used for dons, and a lighter sound must be used for kats.
A guideline could be made to explain the proper usage, for example:

1. you shouldn't have 10 different sets that swap very often, as that just makes little sense,
2. or something like - you shouldn't use sounds which don't have a sufficient feedback for the player (string instruments, echoes and longer sounds come to mind as an example, there could be more, like sounds being too similar to the music).

For everything else, there is a QAT saying no to it.

Obviously this could cause some extra work for the QAT if there is an argument present, where the mapper says yes and QAT says no, and then a neutral party has to step in and decide, which can sometimes be quite iffy as picking a side is something this community is really afraid of, but in the long run it's worth it. It creates options which can bring lots of good.

Not to mention that all custom hitsounds can easily be overriden nowadays, with a simple click (or even made default in options).

Just my 2c.

And yes, I actually do have a custom hit sounded map that I might want to put into ranked one day. :p

With the change of how the Ranking Criteria Subforum works from now on, topics like these are obsolete.