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[o!m] Quick Q&A and General o!m Discussion Thread

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Total Posts
124
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
PyaKura
Well since someone made me think about it it's true that we need something like this avoid creating threads for things which don't deserve it.

Ask about anything related to osu!mania here. Things you don't understand, tips, and what not (how to play a pattern, thumb or pinky, etc...). Avoid discussing anything that can be done elsewhere or deserve more attention than "simple things" (Ranking Criteria, for instance).

Absolutely everyone is free to post here, newbies and advanced players alike, and whether it's asking something or answer someone.


Ah, we might as well make a thread for general mania discussion...

Would be this thread be useful ? If so, sticky it ?

edit : changed thread's title to avoid confusion when it appears as the last thread in which a reply has been made in Gameplay & Rankings.




Post whatever you want related to o!m.
Last edited by PyaKura , edited 4 times in total.
Isopach
31 posts
Joined October 2009
Isopach
What would you do if you didn't play for a few days, and your accuracy drops by 5% for every song? Take a longer break or grind through 100 plays with no pp increase?
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
I'd stop worrying about my PP and just focus on improving.
Isopach
31 posts
Joined October 2009
Isopach

Bobbias wrote:

I'd stop worrying about my PP and just focus on improving.
It's not about the pp, it's about the fact that you (me) dropped in standard by taking a short break.

So my question still stands: Would you take another few days break, or just grind through the sadness of -5+% every song?
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Personally, I get worse any time I take a break, so taking more of a break would be counter-productive. I would just keep playing like I always do and hope that the accuracy loss corrects itself once I've spent a bit of time playing.
Xcrypt
264 posts
Joined July 2013
Xcrypt
I think it's good to bring some structure to forums, as long as this doesn't become one huge thread where we post everything (else we might just move to facebook lol).

Anyway, on the break thing: In my gaming experience, I always do a couple of months of intense training on something, followed by a couple of weeks (or even months, if I feel like doing something else) of break. I always do this when I feel I hit some kind of a wall. It takes some time to get back to the point where you were, but I nearly always manage to break through the wall after a break.

As for the short breaks you are talking about (couple days), I call those inconsistencies in training. I don't think they are good, but sometimes they are unavoidable ofcourse. It should get better after a couple of plays, if it doesn't then it'll probably be fixed the next day or the day after. Just remember your performance is influenced by a lot of random factors so on some days you'll just perform worse than others, it might also have nothing to do with not having played a couple of days.
Isopach
31 posts
Joined October 2009
Isopach

Bobbias wrote:

Personally, I get worse any time I take a break, so taking more of a break would be counter-productive. I would just keep playing like I always do and hope that the accuracy loss corrects itself once I've spent a bit of time playing.
Hmm, for me, if I perform badly for maybe an hour or so, I'll just stop for the day -- no point playing on to feel worse.
When I start playing badly, I remind myself to hit lighter (I noticed most of my good scores come from me playing at odd hours in the morning where I have to hit lightly else I'll wake my family up). If that doesn't work, then I stop for the day.

As for breaks, I take them when I feel like my wrist/fingers are strained :x usually do something like play for 3 days, rest for 4 days etc.

@Xcrypt
I can't be consistent over more than half a week, or I'd burn out and end up not touching the game for a few months or more (this happened for a few non-rhythm games already lol)
Ceph23
687 posts
Joined September 2013
Ceph23
Speaking of breaks, it seems that when I play mania for an hour or so I suddenly get worse at it instead of improving.
I realize that this is just my fingers and brain getting tired. But I seriously want to get rid of this limitation.

So I guess my question would be if anyone else has this problem and does anyone have a solution to this?
Xcrypt
264 posts
Joined July 2013
Xcrypt
@Ceph
I perform terrible the first hour. My hands feel heavy and my brain feels mushy. I perform best at around 2 hours in, and start getting tired at 4. It's the same with other intensive games for me. However, I do take 5 minute break every half hour or so. Maybe that is what does the trick. I honestly can't imagine playing 4 hours in a row without a smoke break :p

@Isopach
Burn out how? You would stop liking the game?
And you really shouldn't be getting strained fingers when you play so little. It's possible that you're tensing up too much and probably you are also using an unergonomic hand position.

As for myself, I'd also like to ask a quick question :D
I'm having a lot of problems with jacks. I feel like I can find a solution to improving anything, except jacks. I never seem to get better at them even though I often play charts with jacks. Has anyone found a consistent way for themselves to get better at jacks?
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

Ceph23 wrote:

Speaking of breaks, it seems that when I play mania for an hour or so I suddenly get worse at it instead of improving.
I realize that this is just my fingers and brain getting tired. But I seriously want to get rid of this limitation.

So I guess my question would be if anyone else has this problem and does anyone have a solution to this?
Your stamina will go up over time as you play harder stuff. It won't necessarily feel like it, because as you get better and play harder stuff, it balances the stamina gains but if you were to go back and play the easier stuff, you'd be able to play much longer. You can also increase your stamina by forcing yourself to play longer despite playing worse. Once you get used to playing longer you'll slowly raise the amount of time you can play without getting worse.
Isopach
31 posts
Joined October 2009
Isopach
@Xcrypt
Yep, I'll be thinking along the lines of 'hmm I feel like playing it but I'm too lazy to play it since there are other nice games I want to play too'. Maybe it's the complex charts that I play at least a few times per session? Charts like https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=129555&m=3, https://osu.ppy.sh/b/302266&m=3 and https://osu.ppy.sh/b/270831&m=3 (i always fail these at the last seconds)
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
PyaKura

Isopach wrote:

@Xcrypt
Yep, I'll be thinking along the lines of 'hmm I feel like playing it but I'm too lazy to play it since there are other nice games I want to play too'. Maybe it's the complex charts that I play at least a few times per session? Charts like https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=129555&m=3, https://osu.ppy.sh/b/302266&m=3 and https://osu.ppy.sh/b/270831&m=3 (i always fail these at the last seconds)
Lol@the first one. I believe you wanted to link the mania chart ?

As the for second one it surprises tha you manage to fail "at the last seconds" (I hardly clear the previous diff), and unfinished 7K Burst might simply be too hard for you. Play maps that you can clear, not too hard for you, because you're never gonna improve by playing them.

Also just take a break when you don't feel like playing anymore. I find your case a bit extreme though, as I have many other good games but I can be dedicated to one for long periods of time without wanting to play another one.
Xcrypt
264 posts
Joined July 2013
Xcrypt
I'm kinda like the same as pyakura.
There's a lot of games I like: touhou, quakelive, bloodline champions, starcraft, osu!standard... this list goes on and on. But I mostly manage to play only 1 thing mainly during a couple months(3-6). I don't thinki t's 'bad' if you don't do this, but this can definitely help you improving faster.
Also you shouldn't be playing maps that are too hard for you. Playing something out of your comfort zone is good for technique training, but if you can't read it or don't even come close to having developed the right muscle memory for the patterns and start spamming then you are just practicing your ability to spam something you can't read.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

PyaKura wrote:

Isopach wrote:

@Xcrypt
Yep, I'll be thinking along the lines of 'hmm I feel like playing it but I'm too lazy to play it since there are other nice games I want to play too'. Maybe it's the complex charts that I play at least a few times per session? Charts like https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=129555&m=3, https://osu.ppy.sh/b/302266&m=3 and https://osu.ppy.sh/b/270831&m=3 (i always fail these at the last seconds)
Play maps that you can clear, not too hard for you, because you're never gonna improve by playing them.
I disagree with that. He's failing at the ending. The endings on both unfinished and future gazer are a bit harder than the rest of the song, so it's easy to die there. Future gazer's ending in particular is a real pain. I almost die there even though I know exactly what I'm supposed to do. Playing charts at the upper end of your skill helps push your skill level up. You become more familiar with patterns that you wouldn't see in easier stuff. When you're comfortable playing stuff you can't pass, it can help a lot. And even if you can't read the patterns, making an effort to read them (not just mashing keys senselessly but trying to make as much sense of what you see as you can) is the fastest way to improve your reading ability.
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
PyaKura
The simple fact of failing for me means that the map I'm playing is just way out of what I can play and I should just focusing on slightly easier maps to get the hang of harder patterns. Unless it has some stupidly high HP drain, in which case I just lower it by myself to 8. That only regards me, it's my way of seeing things and how I see myself improving. I know that playing hard stuff helps improving a lot, but when you start to randomly spam your keys/can't read anything and end up failing it just means it's out of your league for now. I usually play stuff on which I score between 80 and 85% acc.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Most people start spamming their keys when something gets just outside of their standard comfort zone which is usually much higher than even just barely passing something. Most people don't understand that your comfort zone does not have to move at the same rate that your actual skill moves.

Most people have an instinctive response to things that feel too hard: "omg, wtf, mash!" But it's possible to push your comfort zone up high enough that you no longer feel that panicky "omg i cant read this, wat do?" kind of response. That response of trying to mash breaks your concentration. When you push your comfort zone high enough, you stop having that response.

Now, when I see a cluster of notes I know I can't hit, I have enough time to see what the cluster is, and try to figure out how to "mash" the keys in an attempt to hit as many of the notes as possible. I can only do this because I've pushed my comfort zone high enough to do it. Even if I know I can't hit something, or even completely read it, I can usually still manage to get an incomplete mental picture of what I need to do, and I can make an attempt even if I still can't play it well enough to pass.

If I played against a room of people roughly my skill level, but who haven't pushed their comfort level as high as I have, I might end up with roughly the same score on say, a level 30 o2jam chart, but I would almost definitely be able to score considerably higher on a level 90 chart.
Xcrypt
264 posts
Joined July 2013
Xcrypt
It's actually quite simple I think: the more effort you do the faster you will improve.

The most important thing beside this is to ask yourself 'what am I training on?'
If you want to train on something specific, it might take some time to figure out the best way to do this.
And what you are training on is also largely a matter of preference.

I made a practice map for myself that I can score 97% on by now, yet it's still far out of my comfort zone. I have to focus so much that my brain hurts after one 2 minute playthrough, and I need to take a short break afterwards because I'm not able to focus anymore if I don't. And it's not even accuracy training, it's pure chord training.
I think this is because the speed at which the chords are coming in succession is just outside my comfort zone. If I try hard to focus, I can hit a chord. If I don't try hard enough I will miss. The entire chart is really uniformly distributed in difficulty, which led me to this next realisation.
One 'problem' which especially occurs with the o2jam mappool, is that often songs will have sections that are in your comfort zone, and sections that are too far beyond. That's why you kinda have to push the difficulities on those I think. (meaning that the largest part of the song will be somewhat outside your comfort zone, and in the difficult sections you can focus on semi-spam survival(semi-spam because I'm not implying a mindless spam))
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
PyaKura
Yes that‘s it basically, "semi spamming " is alright, I do this a lot. What I meant is if you just keep spamming during the whole chart it‘s just terribly out of your comfort zone.And there is no point in training with those for me, it only leads to frustration and fun is lost in the process. There are many maps like Gigantic O.T.N. (L i a's mania) or Phantasmagoria at the highest diff with patterns I can read, but I don't have the skill to play them completely, leading me to get poor acc on them (around 84%). Same Akasha, but the problem is something else, as the patterns are really simple but I lack the speed to hit them.
Isopach
31 posts
Joined October 2009
Isopach
it's easy to notice that you don't know what you're hitting -- if you're getting below 80% accuracy. I can read the hard charts, just that my fingers aren't nimble enough to press them in time. Still, those 3 that I linked are just 'hard' to me at the moment; not at the 'unplayable' level yet. I too, have some song charts I know I cannot pass (at the moment) and won't even attempt coz I can't read it right from the start.

I find it an achievement to pass/break a record on a song chart record that I made a week or two ago -- it shows that I have improved. So while my accuracy might be bad for those songs, as long as I have improved, I'll be satisfied. Thus I tend not to play any song that I have gotten 98+% on it coz it's very unlikely I'll be able to perform at such a standard again ;_;
akebono
615 posts
Joined August 2012
akebono
So much words .... *fainted*
Xcrypt
264 posts
Joined July 2013
Xcrypt
Got a 'quick question':
My left hand finger tapping speed is a lot faster than my left wrist tapping speed.
I have been considering training my left wrist because I've read somewhere in a stepmania forum once that wrist has a lot more potential in speed than fingers,
which can be useful for jacks. Is it worth training my left wrist in order to better do left handed jacks, even though currently my finger speed is faster?
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
PyaKura
Got any maps good for LN training ? I know I have 3 or 4 but it's not enough (Bobbias' map, LN pratice mapset, but I can only play 2 of the maps included :o)
Tear
332 posts
Joined January 2012
Tear
I got a bit, you probably have most of them
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/305760
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/290494
http://puu.sh/6aJLT.osz
http://puu.sh/6hGTY.osz
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/330588
Xcrypt
264 posts
Joined July 2013
Xcrypt
o2jam lvl25-35:
dream wedding
exodus
tears
some ragnarok online ones
one from final fantasy
weep irish
oriental gothic night
SHD out of control
astral (end of song)
SHD electro fantasy (end of song)
earthquake
end of fight
one from avril lavigne
TCP-something from kuliner
anisakis
gargoyle SHD
that's all off the top of my head

oh... explosive series are really nice aswell, but the inverse notes are often a bit too fast for me still.
milky228_old
39 posts
Joined February 2013
milky228_old
Ok, i'll admit now that i'm irritatingly competitive in everything i do. I stopped playing mania for just over a month around december time and have spent the last two weeks trying to work my way back up to where i was in skill level (I was falling short of scores I had set in august) I've finally started to beat my old scores but my rank is still dropping, can anyone tell me why this is?
Taadashi
230 posts
Joined January 2011
Taadashi

milky228 wrote:

Ok, i'll admit now that i'm irritatingly competitive in everything i do. I stopped playing mania for just over a month around december time and have spent the last two weeks trying to work my way back up to where i was in skill level (I was falling short of scores I had set in august) I've finally started to beat my old scores but my rank is still dropping, can anyone tell me why this is?
To get a high rank you must play songs that has a high playcount and rank well on them. Improving score is one way of increasing rank but if it's just a matter of 10 placement ranks the difference won't be that big.
Xcrypt
264 posts
Joined July 2013
Xcrypt
You shouldn't worry about rank, even if you're competitive. (maybe especially if you are competitive)
In osu! it holds SOME meaning, in osu!mania next to none.
Taadashi
230 posts
Joined January 2011
Taadashi

Xcrypt wrote:

You shouldn't worry about rank, even if you're competitive. (maybe especially if you are competitive)
In osu! it holds SOME meaning, in osu!mania next to none.
And this is ofc also true. Considered most of them ETs seems to never play any auto converts.
Envisionise
40 posts
Joined June 2013
Envisionise
Rank is broken in o!m, caring about it is a waste of time. The o!m specific map leaderboards (for the harder diffs) are much more accurate for ranks, but your account rank doesn't matter. The easier maps get you more account rank than the harder ones, which is stupid. Just finished the hardest ranked map? Good job. You get no rank because no-one else has finished it, so you only beat like, 20 people. No rank. Play an easy map, get 99%? Bam, rank pushed up >.>
Drace
314 posts
Joined April 2011
Drace
Rank also becomes a race for who can play the most songs. There's like 30k autoconverts, there's a butt load more autos than active players.... even if the the ranking system used perfect mechanics it'd still be broken due to those frikin retarded autos. Honestly, those autos are the single biggest reason why mania won't overcome its competitors.

But that's all fine, I mean, mania's a side mode right? Its not like it deserves to be that good anyways (sarcasm)
Xcrypt
264 posts
Joined July 2013
Xcrypt
I still think it's cool that autos are implemented though. It's nice for newer players, they just shouldn't count them as ranked that's all. (Or a better alternative would be to get a good ranking system... I think they're working on a better ranking system for osu! but dunno about mania)
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
PyaKura

Xcrypt wrote:

they just shouldn't count them as ranked that's all
This.

But it's not going to happen lel.

Anyways, that's off-topic.
Taadashi
230 posts
Joined January 2011
Taadashi

Drace wrote:

Rank also becomes a race for who can play the most songs. There's like 30k autoconverts, there's a butt load more autos than active players.... even if the the ranking system used perfect mechanics it'd still be broken due to those frikin retarded autos. Honestly, those autos are the single biggest reason why mania won't overcome its competitors.

But that's all fine, I mean, mania's a side mode right? Its not like it deserves to be that good anyways (sarcasm)
I think you managed to write down how I feel about this in a nutshell lol. :P
Ceph23
687 posts
Joined September 2013
Ceph23
Let's get back to some Q & A shall we? :D

Do you guys use mechanical key board. I know in standard, going mech is generaly a good idea. But I tried playing mania on a blue switch yesterday and I sucked more than usuall.

So yeah. Who here uses a mech keyboard and did you improve when you got used to it?
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
PyaKura
Bought a 7G not long ago to replace my laptop keyboard. Black switches require lots of stamina and I need some more time to get used to it. I can tell I've been able to score better on hard maps but that's mainly because my laptop's keyboard really sucked. There is no downside (apart from the 6KRO through USB) from my point of view.
Tear
332 posts
Joined January 2012
Tear
I have black switches too (6Gv2) and when I'm tired the keys feel kinda "mushy" and I can't play well because I'm not releasing them fast enough. Is that less of an issue with other switches? I hate seeing myself do better on a laptop keyboard than this sometimes .-.
Xcrypt
264 posts
Joined July 2013
Xcrypt
I have reds, but it felt different than my laptop keyboard so it just takes some time to get used to.
The biggest advantages imo are
1) It's healthier for your fingers than a rubber dome keyboard
2) I have a habit of pressing keys hard. I played lvl 25-30 songs for two weeks and I had to buy a new rubber dome keyboard. I went through 3 rubber dome keyboards like this... A mech keyboard should last you at least 6 months, even if you play all day and mash the keys like your life depends on it.

As far as actual performance goes, I wouldn't say that I play better on this keyboard than on my rubber domes, it's about the same for me.
Xcrypt
264 posts
Joined July 2013
Xcrypt
Not really related to o!m but here I go anyway:

Recently I've bought a dancemat and been playing some stepmania with it and having fun. But are there some more other dance games out there too? What are some of the most 'hardcore' dance games?
Taadashi
230 posts
Joined January 2011
Taadashi

Xcrypt wrote:

Not really related to o!m but here I go anyway:

Recently I've bought a dancemat and been playing some stepmania with it and having fun. But are there some more other dance games out there too? What are some of the most 'hardcore' dance games?
Well I guess there's ITG (In the Groove). And also PIU (Pump it Up). PIU uses a middle steppanel as well though, so I guess you'd need a mat that supports it. :)

I'm sure there are more games as well. :P
Xcrypt
264 posts
Joined July 2013
Xcrypt
Obviously I still suck at dancing but all the songs I see on youtube look rather easy when viewed from someone who is used to o2jam type of charts. I feel like having only two feet is limiting the skill cap of these games because in the end it will only be about improving tapping speed. I'm probably wrong but this is how I feel =/ Anyways, I'll stop complaining/making assumptions and just have some fun with it. Still plenty of fun and challenge for me in stepmania ^^ But not any more today, my feet are burning because I've been playing it 4 hours straight lol.
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
PyaKura
For those of you who play with a mech kb : do you always bottom out the keys do you press them just enough to register the key ?
Xcrypt
264 posts
Joined July 2013
Xcrypt
I pretty much smash my keys so yeah.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
I found PIU easier to get used to than DDR, once I got used to reading the directions properly. The layout felt more natural than DDRs.

Xcrypt this is old as balls now but it's stil a good example of how hardcore you can get at DDR. This chart is meant to be played on a keybord: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga7Hb1Kt9Ko

And yes, that's 40k combo. He's playing on a mode where your combo doesn't reset at the start of a new song, only when you actually break combo.

As for the keys thing, I'd be using a much lighter touch if I wasn't on a really shitty laptop keyboard that requires bottoming out hard.
Drace
314 posts
Joined April 2011
Drace
Since the keys activate halfway on mechs there's no reason too. Bottoming out will just be an inaccurate waste of energy and speed. However, since I like bottoming out when I play, I modified my play keys to activate on the bottom and shortened their travel distance to overcome this.
Xcrypt
264 posts
Joined July 2013
Xcrypt

Drace wrote:

I modified my play keys to activate on the bottom and shortened their travel distance to overcome this.
How?

I set universal offset time to a positive value because the actuation moment happens before you hear the sound of the keypress, but shortening travel time seems really interesting to me.

Also, I don't think bottoming out is a bad thing because this way you get some kind of a recoil (restitution), so in theory it could actually help you tapping faster.
Not sure if this is actually the case in practice though, but I've never seen anyone not bottoming out on jacks.
EDIT: just tested. I get 400 bpm on single key wrist jacks not bottoming out, and 520 when bottoming out (100 hits). http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
PyaKura

Drace wrote:

Since the keys activate halfway on mechs there's no reason too. Bottoming out will just be an inaccurate waste of energy and speed. However, since I like bottoming out when I play, I modified my play keys to activate on the bottom and shortened their travel distance to overcome this.
Shortening the travel distance sounds tempting. How did you manage to do that ?

Edit : I get 650 BPM by bottoming out, a mere 350 when trying to press just enough to register the key...
Isopach
31 posts
Joined October 2009
Isopach

PyaKura wrote:

Drace wrote:

Since the keys activate halfway on mechs there's no reason too. Bottoming out will just be an inaccurate waste of energy and speed. However, since I like bottoming out when I play, I modified my play keys to activate on the bottom and shortened their travel distance to overcome this.
Shortening the travel distance sounds tempting. How did you manage to do that ?

Edit : I get 650 BPM by bottoming out, a mere 350 when trying to press just enough to register the key...
When you're used to your keyboard switches you'll know the point where it registers. Like I can use brown switch (for MOBA games), but not blue switch coz I may press too lightly and definitely not black switches coz they require too much strength
CaptainAhab_old
70 posts
Joined January 2014
CaptainAhab_old
Are there any recommended keyboards for o!mania that are no more than roughly $40? Or, in the long run, would it better to pick up a good mechanical keyboard? If so, which one?
andromeda2020
59 posts
Joined December 2012
andromeda2020

CaptainAhab wrote:

Are there any recommended keyboards for o!mania that are no more than roughly $40? Or, in the long run, would it better to pick up a good mechanical keyboard? If so, which one?
a4tech krs-85 very good keyboard(for me). yes i'm poor can't even buy a mech keyboard... :(
Taadashi
230 posts
Joined January 2011
Taadashi
So I just watched kiokumis play of stellar blue on youtube and stumbled across the term anmitu in the comments. What does it mean? :P
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