Monstrata wrote:

Anyways @fieryrage if you want to mod, I'd appreciate your perspective on quaver more tbh xD. I'm ranking that soon.

Irreversible wrote:

Do you mind elaborating on those diffnames? I can't really put excruciating, tragic death and tortured soul into a context

Fezu wrote:

Doesn't help the system is rigged when meme mappers like Vinxis or Monstrata has free reign and contacts that can get maps ranked within 2-4 pages of mods.

Sotarks wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

I'll take a more detailed look when I get home, but it seems you generally aren't pleased with the way I use spacing and DS in my map. Unfortunately we'll just have to disagree on that. I'm happy to provide better reasons and logic behind these spacings. However, I don't plan on changing anything unless it's a mistake on my part, like the volume dq earlier. (Of course, since I don't have osu on atm, I can't judge, so give me an hour first to get home).

Shiny Spoon wrote:

Are you fucking joking? My sincerest of apologies.

Usually, I just look at these maps, take it up the ass and play older ones where I could actually stand it, but shown by this map 2016 is an absolute shit show of bad maps and I just seen one of the worst of all. Lets take a look I'm terribly sorry you think that.

[Eclipse]

Theres nothing more to say about this map than throw it in the fucking graveyard, but just to humor myself. Ill explain my thoughts anyway. I look forward to your thoughtful explanations, and I wish to thank you beforehand for your invaluable time and effort.

The beginning is okay, up until this part. Great!

00:12:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - What is this spacing and WHY is it intensifying so much? The song here has NO change in intensity, and the hitsounds barely make it intensified either. I agree with the whole "lets space it out as the jumps move forth," but dont make the god damn jumps across the screen, literally ONLY going for difficulty and I've never seen it more blatant. I'm so sorry for having been so blatant. I do enjoy using spacing to create an intensity spike, and I strongly believe such a technique works here. In my most honest of opinions, I believe that the pitch of the vocal combined with the song's lead-in to a super-intense stream section allow me to use such a spacing technique.

00:19:151 (1) - From this note in the stream forth, what is the point of spacing this out more? Its not like the riff gets intensified more/higher in volume. Theres no reason to make this more spaced than the ones before. The guitar only calls for one spaced out section, then back to what it was. Thats how it should play from how it sounds, its a rhythm game for fucks sake. Ah. An excellent observation. My intention here is simply to create a more difficult counterpart to the first iteration of those streams. I think the increase in spacing past 00:18:228 - prepare to player for an increase in spacing. I do apologize for having offended you with my spacing, however.

00:21:613 (9) - Why aren't you atleast LOWERING the spacing? The intensity here is dropping yet for some reason you drop it here 00:22:536 (1) - ? I don't believe the intensity has quite dropped yet. In my most humblest of opinions, I think my spacing reflects how I feel the instruments are being expressed here. I decided to change spacing only when the guitar became inaudible. Sorry for not having explained this in my beatmap description. I do humbly apologize.

00:24:997 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - This spacing is SO inconsistent from the spacing you had in the beginning burst. Theres other ones you can find straight after too, not hard to find as its so blatant. I do believe that the intensity of the song here in a verse section is slightly different from the song during its intense introduction. My deepest apologies for so blatantly mapping two different sections of a song differently.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Hey guys, I know a great idea! You know how im only known for triangles? Yeah? So let me just add a fucking triangle pattern here, and make it have no rhythmic placement whatsoever, Haaha AHAHA memes bois! I sincerely apologize for mapping these triangles. They were obviously in poor trigonometric taste. I do believe the spacing rhythm I created here is unique, and different from the regular or "normal" rhythm of the song, and personally I find it enjoyable to play. I apologize again that you found it so offensive.

Oh wow, that pattern is god awful, you did it so much better in previous diffs with sliders and a couple hit circles. it actually FITS. PLEASE Please do forgive me for I have sinned.

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I think a part of me died for the mapping community when I saw this shit can get ranked. These should not be across the screen jumps at all, because yet again its blatant difficulty mapping with no regard to the music whatsoever. Sorry. Really, that is all I can say. Sorry for causing you such an offense with my spacing concept. However, like earlier, I believe the song's intensity can indeed be accentuated through these spacing increases. Honestly though, I meant you no harm, and I do beg you for your forgiveness here once again.

01:01:613 (1,2,3) - The intensity drops a bit here, so why does it increase in difficulty? Hmm.....I think that ones obvious. I'm sorry I missed something so obvious. Perhaps I just didn't think the intensity dropped here. Accept my apologies... please!

01:17:920 (1) - From this point on, any ounce of consistency you may of had dropped to an all time 0% because this stream isn't intensified in any way, literally the same exact riff from the beginning, and worst of all, its not even intensified by a kiai time??? I'm sorry for not putting Kiai time here. I simply didn't wish for there to be any Kiai time on this song. I do believe the intensity is conveyed through the spacedness, however I completely understand your disposition toward spaced streams.

BUT WAIT IM NOT DONE WITH THAT STREAM Thank you. I am forever in debt to your guidance.

01:21:920 (1) - OH LOOK this note is the start of the exact same spacing as the previous stream before the spacing increase supported by the song, but you didnt do that earlier? What was the point of that??? It seems here you just thought you couldn't get away with more spacing it seems. I'm sorry for not spacing it more. I simply believed that this was the full extent of the song's intensity. I'm sorry for not overstepping my boundaries and spacing it even further.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - yay more across the screen jumps. Kill me. Yes, please, thank you. And sorry again.

[Tortured Soul Extra]

A little more bareable of a diff for me, but still not great enough for ranking in my eyes. I'm glad you found it more bareable. I too found the difficulty more bearable and I hope your concerns reflect that.

00:15:613 (2) - This stream forth the biggest problem I have with this is the awkwardness of these stream pauses. I feel it'd be so much better to be using repeat sliders. My apologies. Let me explain this better. I simply wished to have a jump between the guitar note, and the guitar scale. I hope this helps in clearing up our misconceptions. Thank you for allowing me this humble opportunity to do so.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2) - These are so bad for a pattern, they make no sense and is so gimmicky in a map that has literally no other gimmick, I have no idea why you'd put these here in this way, again like earlier. SLIDERS SLIDERS SLIDERS. I've seen you use them nicely before, they'd fit here perfectly. I do believe that the change in spacing occurs naturally if you were to listen closely to the song. The stacks with different New Combo's (New Combo's are shorthanded as NC's) also aide this effect.

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I dont even have to say anything, you know what im going to say. (*Cough* screen jumps *cough*) I am terribly sorry for causing you such respiratory harm through these jumps. Like earlier, I do believe such an increase is warranted.

01:17:920 (1) - The structure is well done comparative to the beginning, the spacing should stay atleast consistent, its literally no different from earlier. I do believe the sound here is different from what comes after. However I do apologize for mapping two different sounds to two different spacing's regardless.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Honestly, I dont mind this one as much, its so much better than across the screen jumps. Thank you kindly for your warm words.

[Tragic Death Extra]

00:13:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Eh, something about this pattern doesnt seem right and again the spacing is horrid. I'm terribly sorry. I believe the placements play well though.

00:15:459 (1) - Comparative to the diff above this, this is so much better of a way to reduce difficulty and making it not play like absolute shit. My deepest gratitude at these hopeful words. I'm relieved to hear that this interpretation of the streams has found favor in your eyes.

00:18:843 (9,10) - These feel pretty awkward playability wise. My apologies. They flow the way I wanted them to, and create a nice snapping structure, however I'm terribly sorry for having caused you such awkward feelings.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This is so much better than the diff above, but still super awkward for a map that you developed this to be. In both this diff and the last, you hype the map up with these intense jump patterns, yet for some reason these are so underwhelmingly close to each other. Im not saying increase the spacing a shit ton, but increase it a LITTLE bit, nothing insane. Make visible patterns, but dont make them over exaggerated. This is definitely a place to have low spacing, but not a place to have intense spacing. This section, just like the diff above is a massive flow breaker and needs fixing. Thank you for your words of wisdom. I believe what I have works well though, and I think here, I would prefer to stray away from the "norm" and present these kinds of interesting spacing's and arrangements instead. I believe the section is quite unique to the music, and I thank you again for allowing me to tap into your wellspring of knowledge.

01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - spacing so bad, too much spacing here. I do apologize once again.

01:18:228 (1) - This section forth for the streams, they're beautiful, this is how it SHOULD be mapped, its perfect this way. I have no words but eternal gratitude and thanksgiving.

[Final Thoughts]

I will say right now that I bare no hard feelings toward you, and im more concerned and very annoyed at this mapset for its ridiculously high star rating for such a song like this. Im sorry, theres no other way I can put this, but this is like an attention seeker map, this is only made to be difficult, and like an attention seeker, its so fucking obvious. You honestly should've stopped at Tragic Death Extra.

The reasoning behind Tragic Death Extra being a stopping point is it has patterns that are most definitely iffy, but they're fixable, the ones above are blatantly going for difficulty, and the way its mapped is massively pushing it. Tragic Death pushes it a bit, but the next ones upward are so blatantly trying to go for difficulty that its actually saddening to see it.

Although, you may not take most of my suggestions into consideration, I am only trying to get my own opinion, despite it most definitely being unpopular of an opinion, which makes it even harder to make a post so upfront and oppressive to current metas. I only wish you the best of luck on this mapset. No hard feelings toward you again, I definitely tried to tone my mod town as I went forth.

Best of luck.

- Spoon

Monstrata wrote:

Red: Keep, sorry, but I took your suggestion to heart and will continue to build on it in future maps. Sorry I could not apply it to this section in particular.

Green: Also keep.

fieryrage wrote:

Fezu wrote:

Oh wow a post count 66 mod that is aggressive as fuck, wow. You know so much about mapping!

to be fair you don't know much either, so i don't know why you're trying to counter-aggro

giving some points from my point of view on the top diff but i understand if you disagree with them:

• od 10 seems pretty overkill imo but i can't really argue against it
  00:02:228 (9) - 1/4 slider might fit better here? rhythm calls for it, sort of I think 1/2 slider is better so theres a more consistent rhythm that transitions out of the streams and into the next pattern. Would apply to all. Using a kickslider kinda creates this 1/1 gap that I don't enjoy ever, given the spacing xP. And using two kicksliders feels like its forcing the rhythm for some of these cases below, and I'd prefer to be more consistent in that respect (rhythm wise) since I already take liberties with spacing.
  00:04:074 (9) - ^
  00:05:920 (9) - ^
  00:16:074 (1,2,3,4) - this could use a bit more spacing for the guitar I'd prefer to just map the guitar shift to a shift in the stream. I generally don't like mapping spacing changes that are under 5 circles long. It's just not something I like to play since I value consistent spacing more. This is definitely something to consider for wubby style maps though, where short spacing changes would definitely help.
  00:16:997 (1,2,3,4) - ^
  00:19:766 (1,2,3,4) - ^ ya basically every section like this tbh
  00:23:151 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - stuff like this that isn't really intensified might be better off with some sliders in between? I want circles here for the drum. The spacing is already quite small. I think using sliders is unnecessary.
  00:38:536 (2,3,4) - nc these? pretty spread out so nc would be good for aesthetics and stuffzz Due to the length between these, I'd like to keep the NC for the follow point. I think the only diff where I don't do this is one of the lower extras, Excruciating i think? cuz theres a symmetrical slider pattern being used instead of circles.
  00:47:305 (5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - streams like this could be better with some distance snap variation imo, having it all the same is pretty bland playing-wise I prefer to focus more on the angle change and overlaps here.
  01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - pretty overkill for a non-intense part of the song tbh This is one of the highlights of the song for me.
  01:14:843 (1,1) - remove ncs? I think it's better to NC here so players are more aware of the rhythm due to a lack of follow points.
  
  as for the final stream i feel like it should have nc's every 8th note instead of 12th note (and nc the 4 note stream left over) and space it accordingly to that, for example 01:23:459 (9,10,11,12) - these notes are pretty intense compared to the stream before it and should be nc'd on the 9th note and spaced out a bit more, personal opinion tho I prefer every 12, it fits more rhythmically imo.

pretty alright map though

Smoothie World wrote:

00:15:459 - Why is this stream section so much easier than 01:18:228 when its quite literally the same thing in the song? This map plays so forced and the difficulty just spikes at random spots without reason when the song is really quite basic with 2 or 3 different intensities.

Monstrata wrote:

Shiny Spoon wrote:

Are you fucking joking? My sincerest of apologies.

Usually, I just look at these maps, take it up the ass and play older ones where I could actually stand it, but shown by this map 2016 is an absolute shit show of bad maps and I just seen one of the worst of all. Lets take a look I'm terribly sorry you think that.

[Eclipse]

Theres nothing more to say about this map than throw it in the fucking graveyard, but just to humor myself. Ill explain my thoughts anyway. I look forward to your thoughtful explanations, and I wish to thank you beforehand for your invaluable time and effort.

The beginning is okay, up until this part. Great!

00:12:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - What is this spacing and WHY is it intensifying so much? The song here has NO change in intensity, and the hitsounds barely make it intensified either. I agree with the whole "lets space it out as the jumps move forth," but dont make the god damn jumps across the screen, literally ONLY going for difficulty and I've never seen it more blatant. I'm so sorry for having been so blatant. I do enjoy using spacing to create an intensity spike, and I strongly believe such a technique works here. In my most honest of opinions, I believe that the pitch of the vocal combined with the song's lead-in to a super-intense stream section allow me to use such a spacing technique.

You bring up a good point on the vocals leading into a stream sections, but from what I hear, the intensity of the vocals raises up to about 00:12:843 (2) - here, but it drops as the voice gets a bit quieter. until about here 00:14:228 (5) - , where it raises in intensity again, which is where spacing should be raised higher. So biased off the vocals. The jump section, using your technique, should go spaced out more, shorter spacing, then back to higher. The instrumental portion of this section generally doesn't change up until your stream section.

00:19:151 (1) - From this note in the stream forth, what is the point of spacing this out more? Its not like the riff gets intensified more/higher in volume. Theres no reason to make this more spaced than the ones before. The guitar only calls for one spaced out section, then back to what it was. Thats how it should play from how it sounds, its a rhythm game for fucks sake. Ah. An excellent observation. My intention here is simply to create a more difficult counterpart to the first iteration of those streams. I think the increase in spacing past 00:18:228 - prepare to player for an increase in spacing. I do apologize for having offended you with my spacing, however.

You say the increase in spacing prepares the player for an increase in spacing, but how? The section straight after is very close together for the most part, with no ease into the jumps.

00:21:613 (9) - Why aren't you atleast LOWERING the spacing? The intensity here is dropping yet for some reason you drop it here 00:22:536 (1) - ? I don't believe the intensity has quite dropped yet. In my most humblest of opinions, I think my spacing reflects how I feel the instruments are being expressed here. I decided to change spacing only when the guitar became inaudible. Sorry for not having explained this in my beatmap description. I do humbly apologize.

Fair enough. I agree.

00:24:997 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - This spacing is SO inconsistent from the spacing you had in the beginning burst. Theres other ones you can find straight after too, not hard to find as its so blatant. I do believe that the intensity of the song here in a verse section is slightly different from the song during its intense introduction. My deepest apologies for so blatantly mapping two different sections of a song differently.

Again, fair enough. I can get around this more than most parts I mentioned.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Hey guys, I know a great idea! You know how im only known for triangles? Yeah? So let me just add a fucking triangle pattern here, and make it have no rhythmic placement whatsoever, Haaha AHAHA memes bois! I sincerely apologize for mapping these triangles. They were obviously in poor trigonometric taste. I do believe the spacing rhythm I created here is unique, and different from the regular or "normal" rhythm of the song, and personally I find it enjoyable to play. I apologize again that you found it so offensive.

This section, you can hear it strain out a bit where certain hitcircles are placed, and would flow much better if there were more sliders.

Oh wow, that pattern is god awful, you did it so much better in previous diffs with sliders and a couple hit circles. it actually FITS. PLEASE Please do forgive me for I have sinned.

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I think a part of me died for the mapping community when I saw this shit can get ranked. These should not be across the screen jumps at all, because yet again its blatant difficulty mapping with no regard to the music whatsoever. Sorry. Really, that is all I can say. Sorry for causing you such an offense with my spacing concept. However, like earlier, I believe the song's intensity can indeed be accentuated through these spacing increases. Honestly though, I meant you no harm, and I do beg you for your forgiveness here once again.

As stated earlier, you use the vocals as a backup to these spacings, but the same applies with the instruments, almost no intensity change, but the vocals do have intensity after this jump section. 01:03:766 (2) - Right about here, you can hear the vocals at a higher pitch than earlier when the across the screen jumps were placed, if you're trying to atleast be consistent, or going with the song in your own styles, then wouldn't that mean these would be spaced out even more?

01:01:613 (1,2,3) - The intensity drops a bit here, so why does it increase in difficulty? Hmm.....I think that ones obvious. I'm sorry I missed something so obvious. Perhaps I just didn't think the intensity dropped here. Accept my apologies... please!

Lets take a step back, despite the sarcastic comment, let me put a bit of your own perspective into why this isn't how it should be. The jumps are biased off of vocal and instrumental. So the instrumental portion drops here, the vocals drop a bit in pitch as well, and raise back up. So in your own mapping 'philosophy' that would mean the jumps lower and spread out again.

01:17:920 (1) - From this point on, any ounce of consistency you may of had dropped to an all time 0% because this stream isn't intensified in any way, literally the same exact riff from the beginning, and worst of all, its not even intensified by a kiai time??? I'm sorry for not putting Kiai time here. I simply didn't wish for there to be any Kiai time on this song. I do believe the intensity is conveyed through the spacedness, however I completely understand your disposition toward spaced streams.



BUT WAIT IM NOT DONE WITH THAT STREAM Thank you. I am forever in debt to your guidance.

01:21:920 (1) - OH LOOK this note is the start of the exact same spacing as the previous stream before the spacing increase supported by the song, but you didnt do that earlier? What was the point of that??? It seems here you just thought you couldn't get away with more spacing it seems. I'm sorry for not spacing it more. I simply believed that this was the full extent of the song's intensity. I'm sorry for not overstepping my boundaries and spacing it even further.

if you believe this is the extent of the songs intensity, considering its the same exact riff from the beginning, then why aren't they similar to each other? Theres no vocals to back the spacing up either.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - yay more across the screen jumps. Kill me. Yes, please, thank you. And sorry again.

[Tortured Soul Extra]

A little more bareable of a diff for me, but still not great enough for ranking in my eyes. I'm glad you found it more bareable. I too found the difficulty more bearable and I hope your concerns reflect that.

00:15:613 (2) - This stream forth the biggest problem I have with this is the awkwardness of these stream pauses. I feel it'd be so much better to be using repeat sliders. My apologies. Let me explain this better. I simply wished to have a jump between the guitar note, and the guitar scale. I hope this helps in clearing up our misconceptions. Thank you for allowing me this humble opportunity to do so.

In terms of playability, its really flows awkwardly, whether its the structure or the spacing in between, it plays awkwardly.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2) - These are so bad for a pattern, they make no sense and is so gimmicky in a map that has literally no other gimmick, I have no idea why you'd put these here in this way, again like earlier. SLIDERS SLIDERS SLIDERS. I've seen you use them nicely before, they'd fit here perfectly. I do believe that the change in spacing occurs naturally if you were to listen closely to the song. The stacks with different New Combo's (New Combo's are shorthanded as NC's) also aide this effect.

This pattern, is something you'd see out of a gimmick map, playing it several times, and it doesnt get any less awkward. I dont know, maybe you'd know if you could actually take the time and effort to test play your songs. (if you can even pass them anyway).

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I dont even have to say anything, you know what im going to say. (*Cough* screen jumps *cough*) I am terribly sorry for causing you such respiratory harm through these jumps. Like earlier, I do believe such an increase is warranted.

Increase is warranted with a decrease as well, like I said earlier.

01:17:920 (1) - The structure is well done comparative to the beginning, the spacing should stay atleast consistent, its literally no different from earlier. I do believe the sound here is different from what comes after. However I do apologize for mapping two different sounds to two different spacing's regardless.

No, the sound is completely the same in terms of drums, which is whats most prevalent in this section.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Honestly, I dont mind this one as much, its so much better than across the screen jumps. Thank you kindly for your warm words.

[Tragic Death Extra]

00:13:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Eh, something about this pattern doesnt seem right and again the spacing is horrid. I'm terribly sorry. I believe the placements play well though.

00:15:459 (1) - Comparative to the diff above this, this is so much better of a way to reduce difficulty and making it not play like absolute shit. My deepest gratitude at these hopeful words. I'm relieved to hear that this interpretation of the streams has found favor in your eyes.

00:18:843 (9,10) - These feel pretty awkward playability wise. My apologies. They flow the way I wanted them to, and create a nice snapping structure, however I'm terribly sorry for having caused you such awkward feelings.

I dont know about this section, my only concern is the fact that it could cause a random and annoying break problem.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This is so much better than the diff above, but still super awkward for a map that you developed this to be. In both this diff and the last, you hype the map up with these intense jump patterns, yet for some reason these are so underwhelmingly close to each other. Im not saying increase the spacing a shit ton, but increase it a LITTLE bit, nothing insane. Make visible patterns, but dont make them over exaggerated. This is definitely a place to have low spacing, but not a place to have intense spacing. This section, just like the diff above is a massive flow breaker and needs fixing. Thank you for your words of wisdom. I believe what I have works well though, and I think here, I would prefer to stray away from the "norm" and present these kinds of interesting spacing's and arrangements instead. I believe the section is quite unique to the music, and I thank you again for allowing me to tap into your wellspring of knowledge.

Unique, yes. For this song? No, because this feels gimmicky, and this song does feel nor sound like a gimmick song.

01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - spacing so bad, too much spacing here. I do apologize once again.

Your mind can probably think of what I'll say here.

01:18:228 (1) - This section forth for the streams, they're beautiful, this is how it SHOULD be mapped, its perfect this way. I have no words but eternal gratitude and thanksgiving.

[Final Thoughts]

I will say right now that I bare no hard feelings toward you, and im more concerned and very annoyed at this mapset for its ridiculously high star rating for such a song like this. Im sorry, theres no other way I can put this, but this is like an attention seeker map, this is only made to be difficult, and like an attention seeker, its so fucking obvious. You honestly should've stopped at Tragic Death Extra.

The reasoning behind Tragic Death Extra being a stopping point is it has patterns that are most definitely iffy, but they're fixable, the ones above are blatantly going for difficulty, and the way its mapped is massively pushing it. Tragic Death pushes it a bit, but the next ones upward are so blatantly trying to go for difficulty that its actually saddening to see it.

Although, you may not take most of my suggestions into consideration, I am only trying to get my own opinion, despite it most definitely being unpopular of an opinion, which makes it even harder to make a post so upfront and oppressive to current metas. I only wish you the best of luck on this mapset. No hard feelings toward you again, I definitely tried to tone my mod town as I went forth.

Best of luck.

- Spoon

Red: Keep, sorry, but I took your suggestion to heart and will continue to build on it in future maps. Sorry I could not apply it to this section in particular.

Green: Also keep.

Thank you so much for this mod. I'm sorry for having offended you to such an extent.

Shiny Spoon wrote:

After reading your post, im going to present a counter argument. (Despite your posts heavy sarcasm)

Shiny Spoon wrote:

Are you fucking joking? My sincerest of apologies.

Usually, I just look at these maps, take it up the ass and play older ones where I could actually stand it, but shown by this map 2016 is an absolute shit show of bad maps and I just seen one of the worst of all. Lets take a look I'm terribly sorry you think that.

[Eclipse]

Theres nothing more to say about this map than throw it in the fucking graveyard, but just to humor myself. Ill explain my thoughts anyway. I look forward to your thoughtful explanations, and I wish to thank you beforehand for your invaluable time and effort.

The beginning is okay, up until this part. Great!

00:12:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - What is this spacing and WHY is it intensifying so much? The song here has NO change in intensity, and the hitsounds barely make it intensified either. I agree with the whole "lets space it out as the jumps move forth," but dont make the god damn jumps across the screen, literally ONLY going for difficulty and I've never seen it more blatant. I'm so sorry for having been so blatant. I do enjoy using spacing to create an intensity spike, and I strongly believe such a technique works here. In my most honest of opinions, I believe that the pitch of the vocal combined with the song's lead-in to a super-intense stream section allow me to use such a spacing technique.

You bring up a good point on the vocals leading into a stream sections, but from what I hear, the intensity of the vocals raises up to about 00:12:843 (2) - here, but it drops as the voice gets a bit quieter. until about here 00:14:228 (5) - , where it raises in intensity again, which is where spacing should be raised higher. So biased off the vocals. The jump section, using your technique, should go spaced out more, shorter spacing, then back to higher. The instrumental portion of this section generally doesn't change up until your stream section. No, sorry. Now you're just being too specific to prove your point. When you consider intensity, you consider a section of music, and you consider single notes. Building intensity = consider whole section's spacing concept. Creating specific emphasis = consider specific notes relative to other notes in the second..

00:19:151 (1) - From this note in the stream forth, what is the point of spacing this out more? Its not like the riff gets intensified more/higher in volume. Theres no reason to make this more spaced than the ones before. The guitar only calls for one spaced out section, then back to what it was. Thats how it should play from how it sounds, its a rhythm game for fucks sake. Ah. An excellent observation. My intention here is simply to create a more difficult counterpart to the first iteration of those streams. I think the increase in spacing past 00:18:228 - prepare to player for an increase in spacing. I do apologize for having offended you with my spacing, however.

You say the increase in spacing prepares the player for an increase in spacing, but how? The section straight after is very close together for the most part, with no ease into the jumps. Spacing is higher.

00:21:613 (9) - Why aren't you atleast LOWERING the spacing? The intensity here is dropping yet for some reason you drop it here 00:22:536 (1) - ? I don't believe the intensity has quite dropped yet. In my most humblest of opinions, I think my spacing reflects how I feel the instruments are being expressed here. I decided to change spacing only when the guitar became inaudible. Sorry for not having explained this in my beatmap description. I do humbly apologize.

Fair enough. I agree.

00:24:997 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - This spacing is SO inconsistent from the spacing you had in the beginning burst. Theres other ones you can find straight after too, not hard to find as its so blatant. I do believe that the intensity of the song here in a verse section is slightly different from the song during its intense introduction. My deepest apologies for so blatantly mapping two different sections of a song differently.

Again, fair enough. I can get around this more than most parts I mentioned.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Hey guys, I know a great idea! You know how im only known for triangles? Yeah? So let me just add a fucking triangle pattern here, and make it have no rhythmic placement whatsoever, Haaha AHAHA memes bois! I sincerely apologize for mapping these triangles. They were obviously in poor trigonometric taste. I do believe the spacing rhythm I created here is unique, and different from the regular or "normal" rhythm of the song, and personally I find it enjoyable to play. I apologize again that you found it so offensive.

This section, you can hear it strain out a bit where certain hitcircles are placed, and would flow much better if there were more sliders.
No.
Oh wow, that pattern is god awful, you did it so much better in previous diffs with sliders and a couple hit circles. it actually FITS. PLEASE Please do forgive me for I have sinned.

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I think a part of me died for the mapping community when I saw this shit can get ranked. These should not be across the screen jumps at all, because yet again its blatant difficulty mapping with no regard to the music whatsoever. Sorry. Really, that is all I can say. Sorry for causing you such an offense with my spacing concept. However, like earlier, I believe the song's intensity can indeed be accentuated through these spacing increases. Honestly though, I meant you no harm, and I do beg you for your forgiveness here once again.

As stated earlier, you use the vocals as a backup to these spacings, but the same applies with the instruments, almost no intensity change, but the vocals do have intensity after this jump section. 01:03:766 (2) - Right about here, you can hear the vocals at a higher pitch than earlier when the across the screen jumps were placed, if you're trying to atleast be consistent, or going with the song in your own styles, then wouldn't that mean these would be spaced out even more? Same as what I said earlier.

01:01:613 (1,2,3) - The intensity drops a bit here, so why does it increase in difficulty? Hmm.....I think that ones obvious. I'm sorry I missed something so obvious. Perhaps I just didn't think the intensity dropped here. Accept my apologies... please!

Lets take a step back, despite the sarcastic comment, let me put a bit of your own perspective into why this isn't how it should be. The jumps are biased off of vocal and instrumental. So the instrumental portion drops here, the vocals drop a bit in pitch as well, and raise back up. So in your own mapping 'philosophy' that would mean the jumps lower and spread out again. Same as earlier. No change.

01:17:920 (1) - From this point on, any ounce of consistency you may of had dropped to an all time 0% because this stream isn't intensified in any way, literally the same exact riff from the beginning, and worst of all, its not even intensified by a kiai time??? I'm sorry for not putting Kiai time here. I simply didn't wish for there to be any Kiai time on this song. I do believe the intensity is conveyed through the spacedness, however I completely understand your disposition toward spaced streams.



BUT WAIT IM NOT DONE WITH THAT STREAM Thank you. I am forever in debt to your guidance.

01:21:920 (1) - OH LOOK this note is the start of the exact same spacing as the previous stream before the spacing increase supported by the song, but you didnt do that earlier? What was the point of that??? It seems here you just thought you couldn't get away with more spacing it seems. I'm sorry for not spacing it more. I simply believed that this was the full extent of the song's intensity. I'm sorry for not overstepping my boundaries and spacing it even further.

if you believe this is the extent of the songs intensity, considering its the same exact riff from the beginning, then why aren't they similar to each other? Theres no vocals to back the spacing up either. Explained in Smoothie World's reply.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - yay more across the screen jumps. Kill me. Yes, please, thank you. And sorry again.

[Tortured Soul Extra]

A little more bareable of a diff for me, but still not great enough for ranking in my eyes. I'm glad you found it more bareable. I too found the difficulty more bearable and I hope your concerns reflect that.

00:15:613 (2) - This stream forth the biggest problem I have with this is the awkwardness of these stream pauses. I feel it'd be so much better to be using repeat sliders. My apologies. Let me explain this better. I simply wished to have a jump between the guitar note, and the guitar scale. I hope this helps in clearing up our misconceptions. Thank you for allowing me this humble opportunity to do so.

In terms of playability, its really flows awkwardly, whether its the structure or the spacing in between, it plays awkwardly. I disagree.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2) - These are so bad for a pattern, they make no sense and is so gimmicky in a map that has literally no other gimmick, I have no idea why you'd put these here in this way, again like earlier. SLIDERS SLIDERS SLIDERS. I've seen you use them nicely before, they'd fit here perfectly. I do believe that the change in spacing occurs naturally if you were to listen closely to the song. The stacks with different New Combo's (New Combo's are shorthanded as NC's) also aide this effect.

This pattern, is something you'd see out of a gimmick map, playing it several times, and it doesnt get any less awkward. I dont know, maybe you'd know if you could actually take the time and effort to test play your songs. (if you can even pass them anyway). This isn't even that gimmicky.

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I dont even have to say anything, you know what im going to say. (*Cough* screen jumps *cough*) I am terribly sorry for causing you such respiratory harm through these jumps. Like earlier, I do believe such an increase is warranted.

Increase is warranted with a decrease as well, like I said earlier. No, same as earlier.

01:17:920 (1) - The structure is well done comparative to the beginning, the spacing should stay atleast consistent, its literally no different from earlier. I do believe the sound here is different from what comes after. However I do apologize for mapping two different sounds to two different spacing's regardless.

No, the sound is completely the same in terms of drums, which is whats most prevalent in this section. No...

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Honestly, I dont mind this one as much, its so much better than across the screen jumps. Thank you kindly for your warm words.

[Tragic Death Extra]

00:13:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Eh, something about this pattern doesnt seem right and again the spacing is horrid. I'm terribly sorry. I believe the placements play well though.

00:15:459 (1) - Comparative to the diff above this, this is so much better of a way to reduce difficulty and making it not play like absolute shit. My deepest gratitude at these hopeful words. I'm relieved to hear that this interpretation of the streams has found favor in your eyes.

00:18:843 (9,10) - These feel pretty awkward playability wise. My apologies. They flow the way I wanted them to, and create a nice snapping structure, however I'm terribly sorry for having caused you such awkward feelings.

I dont know about this section, my only concern is the fact that it could cause a random and annoying break problem.
It could. It could also not.
00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This is so much better than the diff above, but still super awkward for a map that you developed this to be. In both this diff and the last, you hype the map up with these intense jump patterns, yet for some reason these are so underwhelmingly close to each other. Im not saying increase the spacing a shit ton, but increase it a LITTLE bit, nothing insane. Make visible patterns, but dont make them over exaggerated. This is definitely a place to have low spacing, but not a place to have intense spacing. This section, just like the diff above is a massive flow breaker and needs fixing. Thank you for your words of wisdom. I believe what I have works well though, and I think here, I would prefer to stray away from the "norm" and present these kinds of interesting spacing's and arrangements instead. I believe the section is quite unique to the music, and I thank you again for allowing me to tap into your wellspring of knowledge.

Unique, yes. For this song? No, because this feels gimmicky, and this song does feel nor sound like a gimmick song. Same as earlier.

01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - spacing so bad, too much spacing here. I do apologize once again.

Your mind can probably think of what I'll say here. No.

01:18:228 (1) - This section forth for the streams, they're beautiful, this is how it SHOULD be mapped, its perfect this way. I have no words but eternal gratitude and thanksgiving.

[Final Thoughts]

I will say right now that I bare no hard feelings toward you, and im more concerned and very annoyed at this mapset for its ridiculously high star rating for such a song like this. Im sorry, theres no other way I can put this, but this is like an attention seeker map, this is only made to be difficult, and like an attention seeker, its so fucking obvious. You honestly should've stopped at Tragic Death Extra.

The reasoning behind Tragic Death Extra being a stopping point is it has patterns that are most definitely iffy, but they're fixable, the ones above are blatantly going for difficulty, and the way its mapped is massively pushing it. Tragic Death pushes it a bit, but the next ones upward are so blatantly trying to go for difficulty that its actually saddening to see it.

Although, you may not take most of my suggestions into consideration, I am only trying to get my own opinion, despite it most definitely being unpopular of an opinion, which makes it even harder to make a post so upfront and oppressive to current metas. I only wish you the best of luck on this mapset. No hard feelings toward you again, I definitely tried to tone my mod town as I went forth.

Best of luck.

- Spoon

Red: Keep, sorry, but I took your suggestion to heart and will continue to build on it in future maps. Sorry I could not apply it to this section in particular.

Green: Also keep.

Thank you so much for this mod. I'm sorry for having offended you to such an extent.


Red = Counter Argument
Purple = Could use work.

Monstrata wrote:

Smoothie World wrote:

00:15:459 - Why is this stream section so much easier than 01:18:228 when its quite literally the same thing in the song? This map plays so forced and the difficulty just spikes at random spots without reason when the song is really quite basic with 2 or 3 different intensities.

It just doesn't feel appropriate to put the most difficult patterns within the first 15 seconds of the map. Also, when a section is completely repeated later, i like to give the earlier iteration less spacing, and the later one more emphasis in order to create some contrast, as well as intensity increase. It's not reflected in the song, yes. It's really my interpretation of it. Same section = same spacing is good sometimes, but I personally find it boring when its a really intense section that's being repeated.

Yunomi wrote:

Can we all just calm down here? Monstrata is the guy that won the Aspire beatmapping contest of 2016 on the osu! game (developed by peppy). Have you been to his userpage? He is an Elite Mapper, not just a good mapper. So please, if you don't at least have the Elite Mapper title like Monstrata, your opinions on this map mean little to nothing. Monstrata has also created many other jaw dropping masterpieces like Santa San and ALIEN. If you cant play his map then you are just too weak #hollowwings #ghandi #allah #trump4president #freesmoothieworld #unbancookiezi

Kibbleru wrote:

im just gunna note that most of the issues that were pointed out apply to almost every single other map that are ranked and seemed to be exaggerated here only because of the difficulty o-o

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:

Ignoring few difficulties' lack of quality
00:45:613 (4,1) - in Tragic Death Extra
This has to be changed, it's almost impossible to actually hit it, it's uncomfortable as fuck, the distance needed to travel there is way too big compared to rest of the map, missing every time.

Tatsuyu wrote:

sorry if this has been already pointed out and explained but why exactly is this pattern 00:54:228 (1,2,1,2) - on Tragic Death 100 times harder than it is on Tortured Soul?

Monstrata wrote:

It's how I wanted this to play. The construction is similar to 00:44:997 (1,2) - but I want players to hold longer there to create a growing awareness of 1/4 rhythms because the next section is rife with kicksliders and triplet/5-plet streams. Looking at random replays, people don't really have trouble with it. Many can ss. I see a few people getting 100's there of course, but since its clearly doable, I think the 100's are attributed to misreading that as 1x repeat on sightread. That's fine. It's 2 repeats so once they know, they can always just repeat the map (haha).

Monstrata wrote:

What else still needs further discussion? I think I've thoroughly discussed and explained everything else so the dq is rather surprising.

1. 00:08:074 (1,2,3,4) - Compared to 00:56:074 (1,2,3,1) - it just feels like a Collab. Mapped by two different people. The very first part should be the one with the low spacing since it is the very beginning of the map, or, if anything, they should be equally done. Having such a different way of mapping them (even they NCs are mapped differently, but that does not really matter) just feels vague.
2. 00:19:997 (4,1) - Minor, but I would have spaced these out a bit as the pitch is way more higher here, just like you did in 00:19:074 (12,1) - . On a side note, the transition from 00:18:690 (7,8,9,10,11,12) - to 00:19:151 (1,2,3) - is just terrible, you are making such a curved stream that will most likely tell players to move to any other direction but to the right. You made it to the right. This might not be "the best idea," but it is mostly to give you an idea of where players will expect to move.
3. 00:55:459 (2) - NC'ing this and (3) as well might guide people more into recognising it is not a 1/2 pattern. This may avoid some unnecessary 100s or even misses for readability.
4. 01:15:766 (1) - I would remove this NC, 01:15:459 (1,1) - that is not a 1/1 pattern, you do not want to mislead people, right? By the way, you could definitely add more space to 01:15:766 (1,1) - right now just seems like another 1/2 pattern. Not that big of a deal, but it might improve visuals somehow.
5. 01:26:074 (6,7,8,9,10) - Personally, using kick-sliders seems like a better way to go. Ignoring 01:26:151 - just seems way too lazy, and both (8,10) would be better if they were mapped as slider-tails.
6. 01:26:536 (1,2,3) - Kinda threw me off a little, could not even read it. (2,3) seems more like an anti-jump than anything else. Would you consider moving things around a tad? For example, a pattern like this one just feels more intuitive.

1. 00:08:997 (1,1) - Alright, I have no clue on why these are NC'd but the ones on the highest difficulty are not. Damn, man. I love you way too much to tell you things like that already!
2. 00:26:382 (2,1) - If you use such a spacing here, try to keep it consistent throughout the whole section. That being said, 00:27:151 (6,1) - they could be equally (well, maybe not that much, the music is slowing down here) spaced.
3. 00:47:305 (4) - An NC might work here, especially if you want to help readability.

1. 00:08:074 (1,2,3,4) - You are the most inconsistent guy I have ever met in this game so far. I still love you, though.
2. 00:54:228 (1,2,1,2) - Pattern has more spacing and it is actually harder to hit than on the Tortuted Soul. What do you think about keeping things more concentrated in a specific area of the playing field instead of having them spread out in the corners (especially the lower left one, that is a pain to hit, the transition is not as good as expected.)
3. 00:59:766 - An actual almost-perfect build-up I would say. It may sound kinda nazi, but for the sake of the momentum, even spacing 00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - between doubles might help even more.
4. 01:16:536 (2,3,1) - Not so sure what explanation do you have for this pattern in particular, but I find it to be very unclear. Especially the hit window from (3,1) on this difficulty in particular. To be honest, if you compare it to other 1/4s it does not seem too hard, but considering your previous patterns, it just feels too forced.

1. 01:24:843 (2) - Extremely nazi, but rotating this slider by 40° looks cooler.

1. 00:45:152 (2,3,4) - Making the spacing visually even might look more consistent since that is what you are doing with the following patterns.

Yuii- wrote:

Apparently, people are having problems between combos 350~370x and 460~470x if I remember correctly. Maybe taking a look at that?
Let me do a short list of things you could do. Please Nathan, do take these as suggestions from friend to friend.

The Eclipse

1. 00:08:074 (1,2,3,4) - Compared to 00:56:074 (1,2,3,1) - it just feels like a Collab. Mapped by two different people. The very first part should be the one with the low spacing since it is the very beginning of the map, or, if anything, they should be equally done. Having such a different way of mapping them (even they NCs are mapped differently, but that does not really matter) just feels vague. Okay, fixed the NC
2. 00:19:997 (4,1) - Minor, but I would have spaced these out a bit as the pitch is way more higher here, just like you did in 00:19:074 (12,1) - . On a side note, the transition from 00:18:690 (7,8,9,10,11,12) - to 00:19:151 (1,2,3) - is just terrible, you are making such a curved stream that will most likely tell players to move to any other direction but to the right. You made it to the right. This might not be "the best idea," but it is mostly to give you an idea of where players will expect to move. I think the flowbreak fits really well here though. And I prefer using the same spacing, im drawing emphasis on sharp turns etc..
3. 00:55:459 (2) - NC'ing this and (3) as well might guide people more into recognising it is not a 1/2 pattern. This may avoid some unnecessary 100s or even misses for readability. I think its easy enough to tell these are 1/1 cuz of the AR. If it were 1/2 the high AR would give it away imo.
4. 01:15:766 (1) - I would remove this NC, 01:15:459 (1,1) - that is not a 1/1 pattern, you do not want to mislead people, right? By the way, you could definitely add more space to 01:15:766 (1,1) - right now just seems like another 1/2 pattern. Not that big of a deal, but it might improve visuals somehow. Sure, why not xD.
5. 01:26:074 (6,7,8,9,10) - Personally, using kick-sliders seems like a better way to go. Ignoring 01:26:151 - just seems way too lazy, and both (8,10) would be better if they were mapped as slider-tails. Ehh, I prefer the way its constructed atm. The rhythm works really well for me anyways, and I think its a nice transition instead of just using two 5 note streams in a row.
6. 01:26:536 (1,2,3) - Kinda threw me off a little, could not even read it. (2,3) seems more like an anti-jump than anything else. Would you consider moving things around a tad? For example, a pattern like this one just feels more intuitive. Good point. Moved it.

Tortured Soul Extra

1. 00:08:997 (1,1) - Alright, I have no clue on why these are NC'd but the ones on the highest difficulty are not. Damn, man. I love you way too much to tell you things like that already! I actually NC'ed based on this idea: If the sliders "worked" with each other ie were copy/pasted, I'd NC spam, if they were different slider shapes, then i'd keep a single combo
2. 00:26:382 (2,1) - If you use such a spacing here, try to keep it consistent throughout the whole section. That being said, 00:27:151 (6,1) - they could be equally (well, maybe not that much, the music is slowing down here) spaced. Made it more spaced
3. 00:47:305 (4) - An NC might work here, especially if you want to help readability. Sure

This difficulty is actually very well done.

Tragic Death Extra

1. 00:08:074 (1,2,3,4) - You are the most inconsistent guy I have ever met in this game so far. I still love you, though. Keeping it here since its a different arrangement.
2. 00:54:228 (1,2,1,2) - Pattern has more spacing and it is actually harder to hit than on the Tortuted Soul. What do you think about keeping things more concentrated in a specific area of the playing field instead of having them spread out in the corners (especially the lower left one, that is a pain to hit, the transition is not as good as expected.) I think its fine for this to be harder than tortured soul. The map holistically should be more difficult, but some patterns may be easier/harder than others, and here is a good place for variety i think.
3. 00:59:766 - An actual almost-perfect build-up I would say. It may sound kinda nazi, but for the sake of the momentum, even spacing 00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - between doubles might help even more. I prefer my current arrangement. Changing the spacing here is indeed too nazi, and it would mess up my structure actuall xP.
4. 01:16:536 (2,3,1) - Not so sure what explanation do you have for this pattern in particular, but I find it to be very unclear. Especially the hit window from (3,1) on this difficulty in particular. To be honest, if you compare it to other 1/4s it does not seem too hard, but considering your previous patterns, it just feels too forced. Hmmm... I don't know. This doesn't feel forced at all for me xP. I think the flowbreak onto 1 is barely noticeable anyways since its a stream, and generally 1/4 notes "reset" flow. Transition from 2>3>1 isn't that harsh either.

Excruciating Extra

1. 01:24:843 (2) - Extremely nazi, but rotating this slider by 40° looks cooler. idk< i think what I have is cooler lol. You get that structure going with 2's sliderhead and tail

Traumatized Hard

1. 00:45:152 (2,3,4) - Making the spacing visually even might look more consistent since that is what you are doing with the following patterns. I think this arrangement is better. It doesn't look as consistent, but it plays really well imo.

Painfully Easy

Personal comment, but the 1/1 spacing in this map is quite... bad. I would have gone with a higher spacing definitelly, it is altogether right now, seems messy. As said, it is a preference. Hmm... Idk its not overlapping at all so I can't see it being messy. Slider-borders never touch.

[]

The mapset is actually very clean, I was expecting something worse judging but all those comments... I ended up liking it a lot, actually haha.

Good luck, you can call me back. I owe you a mod anyway, here is it.

Original Placement

New Placement

Monstrata wrote:

Thanks yuii!

Putting just Blue and Purple wouldn't look that nice.
The more colors you can have in between, the better the effect will become.

That's the idea of growing intensity instead of jumping straight into really big jumps.

rakuenslove wrote:

hello, played your agonizing insane since it's in my skill limit and I really like it .. just a few things i wanna point out. take with a grain of salt

01:00:690 (1,2,3,4) - In my opinion swaping the position of 1 with 4 would make that more fun and also prepare for the next sequence of jumps
01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - It feels weird going from a decent size triangle(1-2-3) to a smaller one (4-5-6) when the songs intensity is growing . Maybe make the 2nd bigger or invert them?

nice mapset

rakuenslove wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

Thanks yuii!

Putting just Blue and Purple wouldn't look that nice.
The more colors you can have in between, the better the effect will become.

That's the idea of growing intensity instead of jumping straight into really big jumps.

but it's like this now

rakuenslove wrote:

hello, played your agonizing insane since it's in my skill limit and I really like it .. just a few things i wanna point out. take with a grain of salt

01:00:690 (1,2,3,4) - In my opinion swaping the position of 1 with 4 would make that more fun and also prepare for the next sequence of jumps No, this creates a really poor spacing from the previous jump into 1.
01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - It feels weird going from a decent size triangle(1-2-3) to a smaller one (4-5-6) when the songs intensity is growing . Maybe make the 2nd bigger or invert them? I like the arrangement I have better. The angles work really well for me. Also I think this is outdated, I'm pretty sure when you modded it, this jump pattern was different, based on your observation. If it's still the same, then I don't agree with your point that the triangle becomes smaller with 4 5 6, cuz its bigger now...

nice mapset

i'm still sad that this was ignored




reading this thread I think most modders here are scared to do hard modding and those who do it simply get trashed thru sarcasm

Monstrata wrote:

Oh. You were talking about Insane. zzzz

rakuenslove wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

Thanks yuii!

Putting just Blue and Purple wouldn't look that nice.
The more colors you can have in between, the better the effect will become.

That's the idea of growing intensity instead of jumping straight into really big jumps.

but it's like this now

rakuenslove wrote:

hello, played your agonizing insane since it's in my skill limit and I really like it .. just a few things i wanna point out. take with a grain of salt

01:00:690 (1,2,3,4) - In my opinion swaping the position of 1 with 4 would make that more fun and also prepare for the next sequence of jumps I don't want to use a star pattern here because I use it in the next pattern. So here, instead I use a pentagonal structure that is comparatively larger than 00:59:766 (1,2,3,4) - (rhythmically, and spacing-wise).
01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - It feels weird going from a decent size triangle(1-2-3) to a smaller one (4-5-6) when the songs intensity is growing . Maybe make the 2nd bigger or invert them? I really like the shape I have here, it plays really smoothly for me, so I'd like to keep it. Also, analyzing them as triangles isn't correct here imo. This is a star jump pattern so the angles are sharper than a triangle. You can call them triangles i guess, everything is a triangle, but I think this arrangement just flows really well. I don't want to make this too difficult considering the previous jump pattern still used 1.00x DS. This isn't really trying to challenge players as much as my other (higher) diffs.

nice mapset

i'm still sad that this was ignored




reading this thread I think most modders here are scared to do hard modding and those who do it simply get trashed thru sarcasm

FailureAtOsu wrote:

might as well add my 2 cents before this goes back to qualified o/

Traumatized Hard

00:25:613 (1,3) - Blanket here could be a bit better (or blanket it if that wasn't intentional ) Fixed
00:59:766 (1) - Considering the fact that on all the higher difficulties this is a long-ish jump, maybe the hard could get a bit of a bump in spacing and intensity here? Idk, just an opinion (Or at least have a consistent 1/2 rhythm, aka changing 01:01:613 (1) - )I'd prefer to keep the spacing more consistent here. I don't really do a lot of spacing changes on Hard because it's a Hard, so I don't wanna do anything here honestly.

Excruciating Extra

00:48:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - I honestly preferred the rhythm you used for the Insane instead of the one you used here, as I feel it's a bit more fun to play, just me tho I really like how this plays actually. It's quite unique imo.
Also, the jump from OD8.5 to 9.3 is a bit extreme, in my opinion (since OD9.3 is miles harder than OD8.5, at least for me) so I'd tone it down at least a tiny bit to 9.0 or 9.1, once again personal thing. I think it's fine. Actually, 0.8 change is really small compared to most mapsets lol. This one just has so many Extra's that the change appears large when compared to the other extra's. OD and AR should reflect the difficulty of the song more than they reflect an even diff setting spread imo.

Tragic Death Extra

01:09:305 (1,2,1,2) - Something about the transition between 1/2 sliders and just 1/1 circles felt a bit awkward to me while playing this. Personal stuff tho, just like pretty much all points of this mod Well, someone else pointed that out too when I looked for testplays, so I made the transition easier by making the 1/2 slider jumps smaller in order to create more emphasis onto the 1/1 circles.

I can't really say much about the other 2 because I'm not able to play them very well.
However, the diffs I can play are quite fun, and I wish you the best with ranking.

chainpullz wrote:

Regardless, your fingers are still moving based on joints. I wouldn't read too much into "movement along one axis" as an explanation for why such patterns are difficult. It's very easy to approximate straight line movement when the movement is small but for large movements unless playing on high sensitivity/small area you should notice a large amount of arcing across most play styles. Mouse is notorious for a very snappy straightline motion but I'm sure if you watched replays for difficult enough maps you'd see some minor arcing on cross screen jumps even from mouse players. This is also a reason why you shouldn't always assume the same patterns/flow plays the same across for all spacing variations but I'm sure you understand this much at least.

As a side note I'm pretty sure a lot of the annoyance of straightline patterns (be they perfectly horizontal/vertical) comes from the tapping as opposed to the aiming. The most common way to aim such patterns would be to just use a constant velocity with 0 acceleration which often trips players up as they tend to rely heavily on the point at which their aim velocity hits 0 as a signal to tap. Thus patterns such as triangles/back and forths are much easier for players who are deficient in the reading department.

Monstrata wrote:

I guess quaver is going to happen first, then.

W A R I wrote:

First mod post

Painfully Easy

SPOILER

00:35:766 (1) - This slider strikes me as off. I don't think the bend is really emphasizing anything, and it feels off when it comes back. I think it could look and sound better as a slider with no repeat followed by a single note where the current slider ends. It's just stylistics... and no, the repeat here fits a lot better with the song's rhythm.

Blistering Normal

SPOILER

00:14:536 (3) - I think this slider and note after it should be a repeat slider. To me, it seems more similar to the repeat slider at 00:12:690 (3) than the overlapped ones at 00:15:459 (1,2) - in what it's representing in the music. I want more emphasis here, so theres a denser rhythm.

01:21:613 (4) - I feel this slider could work better as just a single note. There's a similar slider before it at 01:17:920 (3) that feels justified for the drums leading into the next slider, but the drum sound isn't as prominent at 01:21:613 (4) to me to justify also having a slider. I prefer it this way. It's more consistent with what I have. Your suggestion works too, but so can mine, and I think mine is better since the 1/2 slider captures the guitar sound, and is more consistent with the whole section.

Traumatized Hard

SPOILER

00:11:459 (3) - Maybe delete this note and extend the slider to it? The slider end doesn't sound like it's emphasizing anything, and I think would be better used where the note is. No... I want there to be a release before a click... extending the slider also makes that circle passive since players won't be clicking there.

00:15:459 (1,2) - These types double notes in this section feel really awkward, and I'd feel they'd work better as a slider similar to how they're interpreted later in this section 01:18:228 (1) - . Huh, the play so well though...

00:26:536 (1) - The drum roll ends halfway through this slider, leaving the rest of the slider feeling empty. Maybe shorten the slider to cover the drum roll and put two single notes after it to fill in the gap? No, I want different rhythm structures here. What you're suggesting is just an alternative approach. Which is fine, but the rhythm I used is perfectly fine too, and thats how I wanted to express this section. Two different rhythms to emphasize the second iteration by means of a denser rhythm choice.

00:27:459 (1) - Just a small pet peeve that this second drum roll isn't mapped in the same way as the first one with a repeat slider (the one in the above comment) ^ accounts for this as well.

01:26:536 (1) - Another pet peeve:This slider end really bugs me how it seems to introduce a new beat into the rhythm. Maybe replace the slider itself with a single note? No... this is perfectly fine...

Agonizing Insane

SPOILER

00:54:228 (1,2,1,2) - Maybe space these farther away from the previous pattern to even better indicate that they're of different time-spacing(?) relationship. Also maybe reverse 00:54:690 (1,2) - . I feel it flows better when the first note of all the doubles are lined up. That would ruin the structure i've set up here. The time-spacing relationship is skewed here, but its still very obviously readable because of how close the 1/1 gaps are, and the fact that they are NC'ed for better visual identification.

01:26:536 (1) - I get that this repeat slider is following the guitar, but that just puts the hitsounds for the slider completely off from the actual drumbeat. Maybe change the samples here or remap the slider to follow the drum? It's following the drum though...

Excruciating Extra

SPOILER

Change this pattern 00:00:690 (1) and 00:02:536 (1) to the same style used for this one 00:04:382 (1). The sliders don't feel right at all, and the later interpretation of the same sound works much better. I think it should be applied to the earlier two patterns. No, I want to use different rhythms. If you listen carefully, the first measure is slightly different from the other three. On this difficulty I tried to bridge the gap a bit by having rhythms be slightly more similar, but on upper difficulties, you begin to see these different rhythms prop out. This is a tv-size so I want to use rhythmic variety whenever possible, and doing so when the music already suggests different rhythms is never a bad idea from my standpoint. The rhythm repeats 4 times in the song soo, so expressing it slightly differently is nice. The rhythms still all relate to each other with minor variations to the first and second beats.

01:26:536 (1) - Same problem as the slider in the Insane diff at the same time. No... See Insane

Tragic Death Extra

SPOILER

I'd like to see this pattern 00:46:843 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) replaced with some variant of this pattern 00:44:997 (1,2,3,4). I feel like repeating the same rhythmic pattern feels nicer to play than having it changed up with a burst and such. No, for the same reasons as Excruciating Extra.

01:18:228 (1) - The start of this stream feels awkward since the guitar sound isn't emphasized as it is everywhere in between the stream with the two slider notes (see: 01:18:843 (9,10) - ). Maybe just put another two quick sliders there to make it feel consistent? And maybe do the same at the start of this other stream 01:21:920 (1) I actually can't understand your concern here... What do you mean by every other stream is emphasized? They're all the same? its the same spacing concept and the same rhythm choice...

Tortured Soul Extra

SPOILER

00:00:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Replace these with the same rhythmic type of pattern as 00:02:536 (1,2,3,4). It just seems out of place compared to how the rest of the intro is mapped. Changing it could make it feel more consistent. No, for the same reasons as Extra.

The Eclipse

SPOILER

00:00:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Same gripe as for the previous diff. It just feels weird having a section that sounds similar to the sections after it being mapped differently No, for the same reasons as Extra.

I get that it's the hardest diff in the set, but 00:12:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6) and 01:00:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) still feel really overspaced, as I feel there's no real buildup in intensity from the previous pattern. I'd like to see it shrunk down just a bit to how the spacing is in the Tragic Death Extra diff at this part 01:00:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6). I feel it still fits the same level of difficulty you're looking for with jumps, without being too over the top. I have no problem with the end section of jumps though, considering it's the end. This has been extensively covered, feel free to read a few posts back .

Sorry I haven't read any of the thread before, so I don't know if any of these are addressed. I know it's a bit late considering the map is qualified rn, but I think these are some fair points that I found when looking through it when I saw that it was qualified. I don't know what the etiquette is with these types of things. Love the map though!

Yuii- wrote:

That vocabulary seems to be a bit harsh, don't you think?

Haganenno wrote:

[General]
01:18:228 - 01:25:536 - kiai would be good here. You have no kiai in the entire song. The song is powerful, it should contain kiai somewhere. I don't want to use kiai. Kiai is an optional tool, and flashy strobes and colors, and stars flying around just feel so weird on this song, especially within the context of the Berserk anime. No Kiai.
[Painfully Easy]

00:34:536 - add a hitcircle No.
00:35:459 - add a hitcircle // how did this not get picked up by BNs?BN's didn't pick this up because it's not an issue. I am following the drums. Just because theres a gap doesn't mean I need to fill in the gap, especially when i'm trying to follow a specific instrument.
Overall I would like you to make the ending a bit more challenging. New players also want to have fun. This map provides none of it.

[Blistering Normal]
00:16:228 - add a hitcircleNo... This adds way too much object density. My rhythm works perfectly fine. You have to realize that with lower diffs, undermapping needs to be made in order to cater to lower players. Do consider that this map is 195 bpm, which is already very high compared to most maps, especially for beginners.
00:17:151 - same // listen to the song with effect volume 0%. Even simple beats that a beginning player could handle are undermapped.
00:19:920 - same
00:18:074 - same
00:19:920 - same
00:20:843 - same No for all. A gap in the music doesn't need to be filled, especially if it causes this entire section to become full 1/2 rhythm which is inappropriate for a Normal.
the same part which repeats at the end should also contain these hitcircles No for the same reason.

[Traumatized Hard]
all good here, ending could be a bit harder though. As I said, easy/normal/hard players need something challenging too.

[Agonizing Insane]
01:13:613 (1,2,3) - I'd suggest lowering the hitsound volume here, as the drum line is barely audible. No... the volume is fine as it is.

[Excruciating Extra]
01:25:613 (1,2,3,4) - ctrl+g is the correct rhythm. Leave the spacing for ctrl+g too, it makes it feel stronger it plays better. There is no correct rhythm, just a rhythm you think fits better. I like this rhythm more, but I won't say this is the correct rhythm either, because there are multiple ways to follow rhythm while still catering to the song. I could interchange two circles for a slider, 3 triplets for a 1/4 repeat or two kick sliders etc... there are lots of variations. The rhythm I chose here follows the song well.

[Tortured Soul]
00:13:459 (6,1) - why is this jump as big as 00:13:613 (1,2) - this one? It's rhythmically incorrect, the only reason I see for this is for you too try to maintain this climb pattern, which really doesn't fit here and is just a tool to boost map's pp value. It's exactly to maintain the idea of increasing spacing and intensity. It completely fits here.

Overmapped to infinity+k^n:
00:59:766 (1) - why is this entire jump pattern so overspaced to this 00:59:766 (1) - slider part? It went from a 7-8* pattern to a pattern that could probably be found in a 5* map (For example: Nevereverland) Please check my more detailed write up on spacing earlier in the map. Also if you are mentioning the slider part, please listen to how the drum rhythm halves. It's intense yes, but you can clearly hear a shift in the drum rhythm. It obviously drops from a 7* difficulty down to 5* because drum frequency drops from every 1/2 beat to every beat.
01:21:613 (9,10,11,12) - in every map of this set you space this guitar hold for 12 ticks, yet it's pretty much ticks. 01:20:843 (11) - this beat is as strong as this one 01:21:766 (11) - there is no reason to overspace it. This goes for all your difficulties, it's that the spacing actually matterns in this one. The song actually asks for spacing to be reduced for 01:21:613 (9,10,11,12) - as it feels like the drive of the song slows down and it starts again like an engine on 01:21:920 (1) - making a flow break here by making the stream go into the opposite direction is also a good idea here. 13* ticks because musically thats one entire measure in 3/4 time signature. I want to emphasize that guitar because it is the high point in the stream section, and the pitching also suggests this. Your suggestion creates rhythmic inconsistency in terms of spacing. I want the spacing to be rhythmic, snapping to measures or important changes in the music. Mapping to gradual changes which is what you are suggesting is something i disagree with, though you do see it on some maps. It's up to the mapper, but for me I would never do this, so nope.

[The Eclipse]
CS5? This has to be a fucking joke. I feel like you're pretty much taunting the community and/or making fun of it by looking what can you map. There is no reason for this not to be CS4, CS4,2 or CS4,5. You have already completed the "300pp for one hard pattern" challenge, are you trying to make a map where you have two hard patterns and they award you 700pp? I want CS 5. Is there a reason a map needs to be CS 4? I want to focus on aim, specifically in the highlight of the song: the streams, so the CS is 5.
00:11:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - the spacing is hard and the angular momentum is maintained. It sucks. The spacing should be lowered while the angular momentum shouldn't be as simple. The jumps should have much sharper angles. This isn't Tengaku. Spacing is fine. It's not even trying to be challenging yet. THe angular momentum is simple because these are just triangular-based jumps. I don't want to use cross-screen jumps yet. The problem with really big jumps is that you end up not having a lot of space in the editor for different placements, so I took the opportunity here as this was a prelude to the second set of jumps (and streams).
00:18:843 (9,10,11,12) - Read what I said about the ending of Torturing Soul Same
01:03:459 (1) - 01:14:459 (12) - the part in between these objects is 5 stars again. Out of nowhere. Lower the spacing of the jumps before or make this more difficult. The star rating inconsistency is at an all time high right now. Drum rhythm goes from 1/2 to 1/1... Its literally half as frequent... obviously the difficulty will drop.
01:21:613 (9,10,11,12) - What I said in Torturing Soul Same. No.
01:25:843 (4,5) - overmapped, there are no sounds asking for a stream It's not overmapped. listen closer.
01:26:382 (9,10) - same ^
01:28:228 (6,7) - honest question - would you actually space it larger if editor didn't get in your way? Placing this hitcircle 01:28:382 (7) - somewhere in the first square (where x and y are positive) would be much better. Literally no reason to place it so far and horizontal (unless you just wanted to make a tv size 800pp map of course, but who would want that) I want to end big.

Anyways, I really hope the last difficulty doesn't make it into ranked, most difficulties are okay, it just feels like a map designed to break the system. Well, I guess you can't blame the mapper, you have to blame the pp formula.

Doj wrote:

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - At least put these jumps in some kind of noticeable shape. aesthetics pls

pkhg wrote:

last diff
00:33:920 (1,2,3) - 00:34:843 (1,2,3,4,5) - what is consistency pls don skip 1/4 im crying rn I wanted to do two different rhythms here lol. First one emphasizes vocals more with the jump, second one emphasizes instruments more. They're both similar rhythms so the minor tweak is just to make different layers in the song more prominent.

also this stream 00:36:074 - mapping it differently for every extra is just dumb. what u did on the eclipse works better Yea, but i'd lose my sanity if I mapped every difficulty the same tbh xD. The variety is there to try different rhythms and ways of interpreting the song.

01:26:536 (1) - this is 1/16 http://puu.sh/qFp5I/19b90c504e.jpg but i guess it would be dumb to change it lo Yea thats not practical t___t so i opted for the most reasonable snapping here.

the map is fine stop complaining (besides that ^)

Osuology wrote:

00:12:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - I don't approve of how this instantly changes spacing but really that's probably just subjective. It's no where near instant.
00:22:536 (1,2,3,4,1) - You don't need to change spacing just to lead into the next section. Just leave the spacing how it was. No... the spacing is necessary for the diminuendo and transition to the verse section.
00:31:459 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - Way to change flow for no reason on the sliders. This plays so well though. It doesn't flowbreak at all unless you aren't playing this as a kickslider, in which case you're playing it wrong...
00:57:920 (3,1) - Way to break flow. Doesn't break flow.. what...
01:28:074 (5,6,7) - Ugly pattern and also, WAY UNFITTING. It fits very well for me. I want the ending to be impactful. Ugly pattern is subjective, this is a symmetrical based pattern that utilizes a lot of vertical to horizontal movement change.

Major concerns:

00:16:382 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Stream is spaced like this, but 00:19:151 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this is more spaced. Yes, I want an increase in spacing.
00:23:766 (1,1,1,1) - Way to ignore good rhythms and leave the player feeling awkward and like he's playing a empty map for a second. What? This fits the quietness of the section.
00:41:305 (1,2) - Way to ignore the previous hi hats from the drum and then map these drum beats. This rhythm is perfectly fine...
00:48:690 (1,2,3,4,5) - These random changes to lead into the next section are starting to annoy me, and once again, I don't see any reason. "oh it leads into next section" It might, but to sacrifice structure and consistency and flow, all for "leading into the next section" is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What? This plays really well. It's a nice angle change and slight spacing reduction coming out of the triangle streams.
00:52:382 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Wow, I love your creativity here! Oh wait it's at 0. Seriously, make this a fun map. No.
00:55:151 (1,2,3) - You were increasing distance between a 1/2 jump before, and you increase it by the same amount but now its 1/1. Yes.
01:03:459 (1,2,3) - Change of spacing for no reason from the previous sliders, and also inconsistent flow. No reason? Listen to the hitsounding, and listen to the song... it goes form 1/2 to 1/1, and the bass drum from the first three sliders is gone...

Osuology wrote:

00:12:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - I don't approve of how this instantly changes spacing but really that's probably just subjective.
00:22:536 (1,2,3,4,1) - You don't need to change spacing just to lead into the next section. Just leave the spacing how it was.
00:31:459 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - Way to change flow for no reason on the sliders.
00:57:920 (3,1) - Way to break flow.
01:28:074 (5,6,7) - Ugly pattern and also, WAY UNFITTING.

Major concerns:

00:16:382 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Stream is spaced like this, but 00:19:151 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this is more spaced.
00:23:766 (1,1,1,1) - Way to ignore good rhythms and leave the player feeling awkward and like he's playing a empty map for a second.
00:41:305 (1,2) - Way to ignore the previous hi hats from the drum and then map these drum beats.
00:48:690 (1,2,3,4,5) - These random changes to lead into the next section are starting to annoy me, and once again, I don't see any reason. "oh it leads into next section" It might, but to sacrifice structure and consistency and flow, all for "leading into the next section" is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
00:52:382 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Wow, I love your creativity here! Oh wait it's at 0. Seriously, make this a fun map.
00:55:151 (1,2,3) - You were increasing distance between a 1/2 jump before, and you increase it by the same amount but now its 1/1.
01:03:459 (1,2,3) - Change of spacing for no reason from the previous sliders, and also inconsistent flow.

Osuology wrote:

Ok, well first of all I do want to apologize. I was very tired and went too hastily. That doesn't mean I've changed my opinion that there are some things that need to be changed, but it doesn't deserve being rude and also being mad. Sorry. Please forgive me.

I want to see these things clarified:
00:16:382 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Stream is spaced like this, but 00:19:151 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this is more spaced. "Yes, I want an increase in spacing." It's part of the whole increased spacing and intensity concept. I did a more detailed response and explanation on p/5401779. The spacing increases because I want the map to get progressively harder. The first stream section is noticeably smaller because I first want players to be accustomed to the rhythm. You don't expect death streams so early on, especially after a jump section, so I felt a lower spacing transitioning to a slightly higher spacing would create a better transition. It's all part of establishing a crescendo effect.

Why do you want an increase in spacing?

00:22:536 (1,2,3,4,1) - You don't need to change spacing just to lead into the next section. Just leave the spacing how it was. "No... the spacing is necessary for the diminuendo and transition to the verse section." Uh, this is necessary. Don't you hear the drums and the lack of guitar there? It's a transitioning point between the intense stream section into the verse section. The transition keeps the rhythm consistent while lowering spacing to signal a departure from the original death stream rhythm, which makes sense here.

As I said for the next example of this, it does sacrifice some of the consistency and structure of the map because it's not consistent for the same rhythms, and thus it also sacrifices structure because the player, unconsciously, would naturally expect something else. Of course, this also carries on into the other place this happens. Consistency doesn't necessarily entail structure. Here, if I kept a consistent spacing, I would harm the structure of the map because the map is structured around building intensity and winding up. As well, (in the point above) it wouldn't create a transitioning structure between the 1/4 death streams into the verse section.
If you want some buildup, make the whole section build up, not like one second of buildup. A whole section being a build up... thats not a build up... Do you know what a build up entails? It's precisely because one section is harder than the other that there is a build up. If the whole section is the same consistency there is no build up...

As for rhythm choices, I decided I wouldn't talk about them, since I could be pointed out to be quite hypocritical, so let's drop those.

As for 00:52:382 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) -, I honestly think the map could be funner if you changed this up a little bit. If you do have reasons for mapping it this way, then please state that reason. It's fun! The rhythm is completely the same in terms of the guitar's strumming, so there is no rhythmic variance on your left hand. I chose these triangle patterns to create jumps every 3 notes. Why? Because ordering like this creates a rhythmic jump on your right hand instead. I want to convey an interesting rhythm here through right-hand motion rather than left-hand tapping. The song is in 3/4 time signature too, so this arrangement makes a lot more sense musically.

00:55:151 (1,2,3) - You were increasing distance between a 1/2 jump before, and you increase it by the same amount but now its 1/1. "Yes."
Your answer is simply yes, I would appreciate a more in-depth answer than just yes. I'm really not sure what to say here. This is just a mapping choice lol. It follows the song's rhythm and gives a structured placement. What confuses you about it? That its 1/1 instead of 1/2? Because its clearly readable. At AR 10 its really easy to differentiate between 1/2 jumps and 1/1 jumps. You can see this as an anti-jump because the transition from 2>1 is a transition from 1/2 rhythm to 1/1 rhythm, but don't you think this fits considering the tempo shift that comes after it? The anti-jump slows down the player in preparation for the next section.

I'm dropping everything else I think, so please just clarify these things with in-depth reasoning please. I'm just trying to make this a higher quality map if I can. I don't hate the map, or you. As a matter of fact, this map is really great otherwise. No hard feelings?

Osuology wrote:

Ok, thank you.

Just two more things left to say. What I meant by building up to a section by the entire previous section, is to slowly make that section become more spaced or whatever until it's the same as the next section, and then they would meet. In terms of jumps, thats already true. For streams, I prefer using sections rather than individual pattern spacings. Increased spacing on stream is more difficult to catch so I'd rather have sections where the spacing increases, rather than individual circles. Think of the map holistically, instead of every individual circle because the intensity build up technique relies on looking across sections of music to fully appreciate.

And at 00:55:151 (1,2,3) - I did misread this the first time I played it. But seeing it as an anti-jump, I can see why it would be ok. I guess that settles it then.