fieryrage wrote:

Fezu wrote:

Oh wow a post count 66 mod that is aggressive as fuck, wow. You know so much about mapping!

to be fair you don't know much either, so i don't know why you're trying to counter-aggro

giving some points from my point of view on the top diff but i understand if you disagree with them:

• od 10 seems pretty overkill imo but i can't really argue against it
  00:02:228 (9) - 1/4 slider might fit better here? rhythm calls for it, sort of I think 1/2 slider is better so theres a more consistent rhythm that transitions out of the streams and into the next pattern. Would apply to all. Using a kickslider kinda creates this 1/1 gap that I don't enjoy ever, given the spacing xP. And using two kicksliders feels like its forcing the rhythm for some of these cases below, and I'd prefer to be more consistent in that respect (rhythm wise) since I already take liberties with spacing.
  00:04:074 (9) - ^
  00:05:920 (9) - ^
  00:16:074 (1,2,3,4) - this could use a bit more spacing for the guitar I'd prefer to just map the guitar shift to a shift in the stream. I generally don't like mapping spacing changes that are under 5 circles long. It's just not something I like to play since I value consistent spacing more. This is definitely something to consider for wubby style maps though, where short spacing changes would definitely help.
  00:16:997 (1,2,3,4) - ^
  00:19:766 (1,2,3,4) - ^ ya basically every section like this tbh
  00:23:151 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - stuff like this that isn't really intensified might be better off with some sliders in between? I want circles here for the drum. The spacing is already quite small. I think using sliders is unnecessary.
  00:38:536 (2,3,4) - nc these? pretty spread out so nc would be good for aesthetics and stuffzz Due to the length between these, I'd like to keep the NC for the follow point. I think the only diff where I don't do this is one of the lower extras, Excruciating i think? cuz theres a symmetrical slider pattern being used instead of circles.
  00:47:305 (5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - streams like this could be better with some distance snap variation imo, having it all the same is pretty bland playing-wise I prefer to focus more on the angle change and overlaps here.
  01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - pretty overkill for a non-intense part of the song tbh This is one of the highlights of the song for me.
  01:14:843 (1,1) - remove ncs? I think it's better to NC here so players are more aware of the rhythm due to a lack of follow points.
  
  as for the final stream i feel like it should have nc's every 8th note instead of 12th note (and nc the 4 note stream left over) and space it accordingly to that, for example 01:23:459 (9,10,11,12) - these notes are pretty intense compared to the stream before it and should be nc'd on the 9th note and spaced out a bit more, personal opinion tho I prefer every 12, it fits more rhythmically imo.

pretty alright map though

Thanks fieryrage!

00:15:459 - Why is this stream section so much easier than 01:18:228 when its quite literally the same thing in the song? This map plays so forced and the difficulty just spikes at random spots without reason when the song is really quite basic with 2 or 3 different intensities.

Smoothie World wrote:

00:15:459 - Why is this stream section so much easier than 01:18:228 when its quite literally the same thing in the song? This map plays so forced and the difficulty just spikes at random spots without reason when the song is really quite basic with 2 or 3 different intensities.

It just doesn't feel appropriate to put the most difficult patterns within the first 15 seconds of the map. Also, when a section is completely repeated later, i like to give the earlier iteration less spacing, and the later one more emphasis in order to create some contrast, as well as intensity increase. It's not reflected in the song, yes. It's really my interpretation of it. Same section = same spacing is good sometimes, but I personally find it boring when its a really intense section that's being repeated.

After reading your post, im going to present a counter argument. (Despite your posts heavy sarcasm)

Monstrata wrote:

Shiny Spoon wrote:

Are you fucking joking? My sincerest of apologies.

Usually, I just look at these maps, take it up the ass and play older ones where I could actually stand it, but shown by this map 2016 is an absolute shit show of bad maps and I just seen one of the worst of all. Lets take a look I'm terribly sorry you think that.

[Eclipse]

Theres nothing more to say about this map than throw it in the fucking graveyard, but just to humor myself. Ill explain my thoughts anyway. I look forward to your thoughtful explanations, and I wish to thank you beforehand for your invaluable time and effort.

The beginning is okay, up until this part. Great!

00:12:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - What is this spacing and WHY is it intensifying so much? The song here has NO change in intensity, and the hitsounds barely make it intensified either. I agree with the whole "lets space it out as the jumps move forth," but dont make the god damn jumps across the screen, literally ONLY going for difficulty and I've never seen it more blatant. I'm so sorry for having been so blatant. I do enjoy using spacing to create an intensity spike, and I strongly believe such a technique works here. In my most honest of opinions, I believe that the pitch of the vocal combined with the song's lead-in to a super-intense stream section allow me to use such a spacing technique.

You bring up a good point on the vocals leading into a stream sections, but from what I hear, the intensity of the vocals raises up to about 00:12:843 (2) - here, but it drops as the voice gets a bit quieter. until about here 00:14:228 (5) - , where it raises in intensity again, which is where spacing should be raised higher. So biased off the vocals. The jump section, using your technique, should go spaced out more, shorter spacing, then back to higher. The instrumental portion of this section generally doesn't change up until your stream section.

00:19:151 (1) - From this note in the stream forth, what is the point of spacing this out more? Its not like the riff gets intensified more/higher in volume. Theres no reason to make this more spaced than the ones before. The guitar only calls for one spaced out section, then back to what it was. Thats how it should play from how it sounds, its a rhythm game for fucks sake. Ah. An excellent observation. My intention here is simply to create a more difficult counterpart to the first iteration of those streams. I think the increase in spacing past 00:18:228 - prepare to player for an increase in spacing. I do apologize for having offended you with my spacing, however.

You say the increase in spacing prepares the player for an increase in spacing, but how? The section straight after is very close together for the most part, with no ease into the jumps.

00:21:613 (9) - Why aren't you atleast LOWERING the spacing? The intensity here is dropping yet for some reason you drop it here 00:22:536 (1) - ? I don't believe the intensity has quite dropped yet. In my most humblest of opinions, I think my spacing reflects how I feel the instruments are being expressed here. I decided to change spacing only when the guitar became inaudible. Sorry for not having explained this in my beatmap description. I do humbly apologize.

Fair enough. I agree.

00:24:997 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - This spacing is SO inconsistent from the spacing you had in the beginning burst. Theres other ones you can find straight after too, not hard to find as its so blatant. I do believe that the intensity of the song here in a verse section is slightly different from the song during its intense introduction. My deepest apologies for so blatantly mapping two different sections of a song differently.

Again, fair enough. I can get around this more than most parts I mentioned.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Hey guys, I know a great idea! You know how im only known for triangles? Yeah? So let me just add a fucking triangle pattern here, and make it have no rhythmic placement whatsoever, Haaha AHAHA memes bois! I sincerely apologize for mapping these triangles. They were obviously in poor trigonometric taste. I do believe the spacing rhythm I created here is unique, and different from the regular or "normal" rhythm of the song, and personally I find it enjoyable to play. I apologize again that you found it so offensive.

This section, you can hear it strain out a bit where certain hitcircles are placed, and would flow much better if there were more sliders.

Oh wow, that pattern is god awful, you did it so much better in previous diffs with sliders and a couple hit circles. it actually FITS. PLEASE Please do forgive me for I have sinned.

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I think a part of me died for the mapping community when I saw this shit can get ranked. These should not be across the screen jumps at all, because yet again its blatant difficulty mapping with no regard to the music whatsoever. Sorry. Really, that is all I can say. Sorry for causing you such an offense with my spacing concept. However, like earlier, I believe the song's intensity can indeed be accentuated through these spacing increases. Honestly though, I meant you no harm, and I do beg you for your forgiveness here once again.

As stated earlier, you use the vocals as a backup to these spacings, but the same applies with the instruments, almost no intensity change, but the vocals do have intensity after this jump section. 01:03:766 (2) - Right about here, you can hear the vocals at a higher pitch than earlier when the across the screen jumps were placed, if you're trying to atleast be consistent, or going with the song in your own styles, then wouldn't that mean these would be spaced out even more?

01:01:613 (1,2,3) - The intensity drops a bit here, so why does it increase in difficulty? Hmm.....I think that ones obvious. I'm sorry I missed something so obvious. Perhaps I just didn't think the intensity dropped here. Accept my apologies... please!

Lets take a step back, despite the sarcastic comment, let me put a bit of your own perspective into why this isn't how it should be. The jumps are biased off of vocal and instrumental. So the instrumental portion drops here, the vocals drop a bit in pitch as well, and raise back up. So in your own mapping 'philosophy' that would mean the jumps lower and spread out again.

01:17:920 (1) - From this point on, any ounce of consistency you may of had dropped to an all time 0% because this stream isn't intensified in any way, literally the same exact riff from the beginning, and worst of all, its not even intensified by a kiai time??? I'm sorry for not putting Kiai time here. I simply didn't wish for there to be any Kiai time on this song. I do believe the intensity is conveyed through the spacedness, however I completely understand your disposition toward spaced streams.



BUT WAIT IM NOT DONE WITH THAT STREAM Thank you. I am forever in debt to your guidance.

01:21:920 (1) - OH LOOK this note is the start of the exact same spacing as the previous stream before the spacing increase supported by the song, but you didnt do that earlier? What was the point of that??? It seems here you just thought you couldn't get away with more spacing it seems. I'm sorry for not spacing it more. I simply believed that this was the full extent of the song's intensity. I'm sorry for not overstepping my boundaries and spacing it even further.

if you believe this is the extent of the songs intensity, considering its the same exact riff from the beginning, then why aren't they similar to each other? Theres no vocals to back the spacing up either.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - yay more across the screen jumps. Kill me. Yes, please, thank you. And sorry again.

[Tortured Soul Extra]

A little more bareable of a diff for me, but still not great enough for ranking in my eyes. I'm glad you found it more bareable. I too found the difficulty more bearable and I hope your concerns reflect that.

00:15:613 (2) - This stream forth the biggest problem I have with this is the awkwardness of these stream pauses. I feel it'd be so much better to be using repeat sliders. My apologies. Let me explain this better. I simply wished to have a jump between the guitar note, and the guitar scale. I hope this helps in clearing up our misconceptions. Thank you for allowing me this humble opportunity to do so.

In terms of playability, its really flows awkwardly, whether its the structure or the spacing in between, it plays awkwardly.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2) - These are so bad for a pattern, they make no sense and is so gimmicky in a map that has literally no other gimmick, I have no idea why you'd put these here in this way, again like earlier. SLIDERS SLIDERS SLIDERS. I've seen you use them nicely before, they'd fit here perfectly. I do believe that the change in spacing occurs naturally if you were to listen closely to the song. The stacks with different New Combo's (New Combo's are shorthanded as NC's) also aide this effect.

This pattern, is something you'd see out of a gimmick map, playing it several times, and it doesnt get any less awkward. I dont know, maybe you'd know if you could actually take the time and effort to test play your songs. (if you can even pass them anyway).

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I dont even have to say anything, you know what im going to say. (*Cough* screen jumps *cough*) I am terribly sorry for causing you such respiratory harm through these jumps. Like earlier, I do believe such an increase is warranted.

Increase is warranted with a decrease as well, like I said earlier.

01:17:920 (1) - The structure is well done comparative to the beginning, the spacing should stay atleast consistent, its literally no different from earlier. I do believe the sound here is different from what comes after. However I do apologize for mapping two different sounds to two different spacing's regardless.

No, the sound is completely the same in terms of drums, which is whats most prevalent in this section.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Honestly, I dont mind this one as much, its so much better than across the screen jumps. Thank you kindly for your warm words.

[Tragic Death Extra]

00:13:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Eh, something about this pattern doesnt seem right and again the spacing is horrid. I'm terribly sorry. I believe the placements play well though.

00:15:459 (1) - Comparative to the diff above this, this is so much better of a way to reduce difficulty and making it not play like absolute shit. My deepest gratitude at these hopeful words. I'm relieved to hear that this interpretation of the streams has found favor in your eyes.

00:18:843 (9,10) - These feel pretty awkward playability wise. My apologies. They flow the way I wanted them to, and create a nice snapping structure, however I'm terribly sorry for having caused you such awkward feelings.

I dont know about this section, my only concern is the fact that it could cause a random and annoying break problem.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This is so much better than the diff above, but still super awkward for a map that you developed this to be. In both this diff and the last, you hype the map up with these intense jump patterns, yet for some reason these are so underwhelmingly close to each other. Im not saying increase the spacing a shit ton, but increase it a LITTLE bit, nothing insane. Make visible patterns, but dont make them over exaggerated. This is definitely a place to have low spacing, but not a place to have intense spacing. This section, just like the diff above is a massive flow breaker and needs fixing. Thank you for your words of wisdom. I believe what I have works well though, and I think here, I would prefer to stray away from the "norm" and present these kinds of interesting spacing's and arrangements instead. I believe the section is quite unique to the music, and I thank you again for allowing me to tap into your wellspring of knowledge.

Unique, yes. For this song? No, because this feels gimmicky, and this song does feel nor sound like a gimmick song.

01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - spacing so bad, too much spacing here. I do apologize once again.

Your mind can probably think of what I'll say here.

01:18:228 (1) - This section forth for the streams, they're beautiful, this is how it SHOULD be mapped, its perfect this way. I have no words but eternal gratitude and thanksgiving.

[Final Thoughts]

I will say right now that I bare no hard feelings toward you, and im more concerned and very annoyed at this mapset for its ridiculously high star rating for such a song like this. Im sorry, theres no other way I can put this, but this is like an attention seeker map, this is only made to be difficult, and like an attention seeker, its so fucking obvious. You honestly should've stopped at Tragic Death Extra.

The reasoning behind Tragic Death Extra being a stopping point is it has patterns that are most definitely iffy, but they're fixable, the ones above are blatantly going for difficulty, and the way its mapped is massively pushing it. Tragic Death pushes it a bit, but the next ones upward are so blatantly trying to go for difficulty that its actually saddening to see it.

Although, you may not take most of my suggestions into consideration, I am only trying to get my own opinion, despite it most definitely being unpopular of an opinion, which makes it even harder to make a post so upfront and oppressive to current metas. I only wish you the best of luck on this mapset. No hard feelings toward you again, I definitely tried to tone my mod town as I went forth.

Best of luck.

- Spoon

Red: Keep, sorry, but I took your suggestion to heart and will continue to build on it in future maps. Sorry I could not apply it to this section in particular.

Green: Also keep.

Thank you so much for this mod. I'm sorry for having offended you to such an extent.

Red = Counter Argument
Purple = Could use work.

osu is meant to be a fun game

Shiny Spoon wrote:

After reading your post, im going to present a counter argument. (Despite your posts heavy sarcasm)

Shiny Spoon wrote:

Are you fucking joking? My sincerest of apologies.

Usually, I just look at these maps, take it up the ass and play older ones where I could actually stand it, but shown by this map 2016 is an absolute shit show of bad maps and I just seen one of the worst of all. Lets take a look I'm terribly sorry you think that.

[Eclipse]

Theres nothing more to say about this map than throw it in the fucking graveyard, but just to humor myself. Ill explain my thoughts anyway. I look forward to your thoughtful explanations, and I wish to thank you beforehand for your invaluable time and effort.

The beginning is okay, up until this part. Great!

00:12:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - What is this spacing and WHY is it intensifying so much? The song here has NO change in intensity, and the hitsounds barely make it intensified either. I agree with the whole "lets space it out as the jumps move forth," but dont make the god damn jumps across the screen, literally ONLY going for difficulty and I've never seen it more blatant. I'm so sorry for having been so blatant. I do enjoy using spacing to create an intensity spike, and I strongly believe such a technique works here. In my most honest of opinions, I believe that the pitch of the vocal combined with the song's lead-in to a super-intense stream section allow me to use such a spacing technique.

You bring up a good point on the vocals leading into a stream sections, but from what I hear, the intensity of the vocals raises up to about 00:12:843 (2) - here, but it drops as the voice gets a bit quieter. until about here 00:14:228 (5) - , where it raises in intensity again, which is where spacing should be raised higher. So biased off the vocals. The jump section, using your technique, should go spaced out more, shorter spacing, then back to higher. The instrumental portion of this section generally doesn't change up until your stream section. No, sorry. Now you're just being too specific to prove your point. When you consider intensity, you consider a section of music, and you consider single notes. Building intensity = consider whole section's spacing concept. Creating specific emphasis = consider specific notes relative to other notes in the second..

00:19:151 (1) - From this note in the stream forth, what is the point of spacing this out more? Its not like the riff gets intensified more/higher in volume. Theres no reason to make this more spaced than the ones before. The guitar only calls for one spaced out section, then back to what it was. Thats how it should play from how it sounds, its a rhythm game for fucks sake. Ah. An excellent observation. My intention here is simply to create a more difficult counterpart to the first iteration of those streams. I think the increase in spacing past 00:18:228 - prepare to player for an increase in spacing. I do apologize for having offended you with my spacing, however.

You say the increase in spacing prepares the player for an increase in spacing, but how? The section straight after is very close together for the most part, with no ease into the jumps. Spacing is higher.

00:21:613 (9) - Why aren't you atleast LOWERING the spacing? The intensity here is dropping yet for some reason you drop it here 00:22:536 (1) - ? I don't believe the intensity has quite dropped yet. In my most humblest of opinions, I think my spacing reflects how I feel the instruments are being expressed here. I decided to change spacing only when the guitar became inaudible. Sorry for not having explained this in my beatmap description. I do humbly apologize.

Fair enough. I agree.

00:24:997 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - This spacing is SO inconsistent from the spacing you had in the beginning burst. Theres other ones you can find straight after too, not hard to find as its so blatant. I do believe that the intensity of the song here in a verse section is slightly different from the song during its intense introduction. My deepest apologies for so blatantly mapping two different sections of a song differently.

Again, fair enough. I can get around this more than most parts I mentioned.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Hey guys, I know a great idea! You know how im only known for triangles? Yeah? So let me just add a fucking triangle pattern here, and make it have no rhythmic placement whatsoever, Haaha AHAHA memes bois! I sincerely apologize for mapping these triangles. They were obviously in poor trigonometric taste. I do believe the spacing rhythm I created here is unique, and different from the regular or "normal" rhythm of the song, and personally I find it enjoyable to play. I apologize again that you found it so offensive.

This section, you can hear it strain out a bit where certain hitcircles are placed, and would flow much better if there were more sliders.
No.
Oh wow, that pattern is god awful, you did it so much better in previous diffs with sliders and a couple hit circles. it actually FITS. PLEASE Please do forgive me for I have sinned.

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I think a part of me died for the mapping community when I saw this shit can get ranked. These should not be across the screen jumps at all, because yet again its blatant difficulty mapping with no regard to the music whatsoever. Sorry. Really, that is all I can say. Sorry for causing you such an offense with my spacing concept. However, like earlier, I believe the song's intensity can indeed be accentuated through these spacing increases. Honestly though, I meant you no harm, and I do beg you for your forgiveness here once again.

As stated earlier, you use the vocals as a backup to these spacings, but the same applies with the instruments, almost no intensity change, but the vocals do have intensity after this jump section. 01:03:766 (2) - Right about here, you can hear the vocals at a higher pitch than earlier when the across the screen jumps were placed, if you're trying to atleast be consistent, or going with the song in your own styles, then wouldn't that mean these would be spaced out even more? Same as what I said earlier.

01:01:613 (1,2,3) - The intensity drops a bit here, so why does it increase in difficulty? Hmm.....I think that ones obvious. I'm sorry I missed something so obvious. Perhaps I just didn't think the intensity dropped here. Accept my apologies... please!

Lets take a step back, despite the sarcastic comment, let me put a bit of your own perspective into why this isn't how it should be. The jumps are biased off of vocal and instrumental. So the instrumental portion drops here, the vocals drop a bit in pitch as well, and raise back up. So in your own mapping 'philosophy' that would mean the jumps lower and spread out again. Same as earlier. No change.

01:17:920 (1) - From this point on, any ounce of consistency you may of had dropped to an all time 0% because this stream isn't intensified in any way, literally the same exact riff from the beginning, and worst of all, its not even intensified by a kiai time??? I'm sorry for not putting Kiai time here. I simply didn't wish for there to be any Kiai time on this song. I do believe the intensity is conveyed through the spacedness, however I completely understand your disposition toward spaced streams.



BUT WAIT IM NOT DONE WITH THAT STREAM Thank you. I am forever in debt to your guidance.

01:21:920 (1) - OH LOOK this note is the start of the exact same spacing as the previous stream before the spacing increase supported by the song, but you didnt do that earlier? What was the point of that??? It seems here you just thought you couldn't get away with more spacing it seems. I'm sorry for not spacing it more. I simply believed that this was the full extent of the song's intensity. I'm sorry for not overstepping my boundaries and spacing it even further.

if you believe this is the extent of the songs intensity, considering its the same exact riff from the beginning, then why aren't they similar to each other? Theres no vocals to back the spacing up either. Explained in Smoothie World's reply.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - yay more across the screen jumps. Kill me. Yes, please, thank you. And sorry again.

[Tortured Soul Extra]

A little more bareable of a diff for me, but still not great enough for ranking in my eyes. I'm glad you found it more bareable. I too found the difficulty more bearable and I hope your concerns reflect that.

00:15:613 (2) - This stream forth the biggest problem I have with this is the awkwardness of these stream pauses. I feel it'd be so much better to be using repeat sliders. My apologies. Let me explain this better. I simply wished to have a jump between the guitar note, and the guitar scale. I hope this helps in clearing up our misconceptions. Thank you for allowing me this humble opportunity to do so.

In terms of playability, its really flows awkwardly, whether its the structure or the spacing in between, it plays awkwardly. I disagree.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2) - These are so bad for a pattern, they make no sense and is so gimmicky in a map that has literally no other gimmick, I have no idea why you'd put these here in this way, again like earlier. SLIDERS SLIDERS SLIDERS. I've seen you use them nicely before, they'd fit here perfectly. I do believe that the change in spacing occurs naturally if you were to listen closely to the song. The stacks with different New Combo's (New Combo's are shorthanded as NC's) also aide this effect.

This pattern, is something you'd see out of a gimmick map, playing it several times, and it doesnt get any less awkward. I dont know, maybe you'd know if you could actually take the time and effort to test play your songs. (if you can even pass them anyway). This isn't even that gimmicky.

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I dont even have to say anything, you know what im going to say. (*Cough* screen jumps *cough*) I am terribly sorry for causing you such respiratory harm through these jumps. Like earlier, I do believe such an increase is warranted.

Increase is warranted with a decrease as well, like I said earlier. No, same as earlier.

01:17:920 (1) - The structure is well done comparative to the beginning, the spacing should stay atleast consistent, its literally no different from earlier. I do believe the sound here is different from what comes after. However I do apologize for mapping two different sounds to two different spacing's regardless.

No, the sound is completely the same in terms of drums, which is whats most prevalent in this section. No...

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Honestly, I dont mind this one as much, its so much better than across the screen jumps. Thank you kindly for your warm words.

[Tragic Death Extra]

00:13:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Eh, something about this pattern doesnt seem right and again the spacing is horrid. I'm terribly sorry. I believe the placements play well though.

00:15:459 (1) - Comparative to the diff above this, this is so much better of a way to reduce difficulty and making it not play like absolute shit. My deepest gratitude at these hopeful words. I'm relieved to hear that this interpretation of the streams has found favor in your eyes.

00:18:843 (9,10) - These feel pretty awkward playability wise. My apologies. They flow the way I wanted them to, and create a nice snapping structure, however I'm terribly sorry for having caused you such awkward feelings.

I dont know about this section, my only concern is the fact that it could cause a random and annoying break problem.
It could. It could also not.
00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This is so much better than the diff above, but still super awkward for a map that you developed this to be. In both this diff and the last, you hype the map up with these intense jump patterns, yet for some reason these are so underwhelmingly close to each other. Im not saying increase the spacing a shit ton, but increase it a LITTLE bit, nothing insane. Make visible patterns, but dont make them over exaggerated. This is definitely a place to have low spacing, but not a place to have intense spacing. This section, just like the diff above is a massive flow breaker and needs fixing. Thank you for your words of wisdom. I believe what I have works well though, and I think here, I would prefer to stray away from the "norm" and present these kinds of interesting spacing's and arrangements instead. I believe the section is quite unique to the music, and I thank you again for allowing me to tap into your wellspring of knowledge.

Unique, yes. For this song? No, because this feels gimmicky, and this song does feel nor sound like a gimmick song. Same as earlier.

01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - spacing so bad, too much spacing here. I do apologize once again.

Your mind can probably think of what I'll say here. No.

01:18:228 (1) - This section forth for the streams, they're beautiful, this is how it SHOULD be mapped, its perfect this way. I have no words but eternal gratitude and thanksgiving.

[Final Thoughts]

I will say right now that I bare no hard feelings toward you, and im more concerned and very annoyed at this mapset for its ridiculously high star rating for such a song like this. Im sorry, theres no other way I can put this, but this is like an attention seeker map, this is only made to be difficult, and like an attention seeker, its so fucking obvious. You honestly should've stopped at Tragic Death Extra.

The reasoning behind Tragic Death Extra being a stopping point is it has patterns that are most definitely iffy, but they're fixable, the ones above are blatantly going for difficulty, and the way its mapped is massively pushing it. Tragic Death pushes it a bit, but the next ones upward are so blatantly trying to go for difficulty that its actually saddening to see it.

Although, you may not take most of my suggestions into consideration, I am only trying to get my own opinion, despite it most definitely being unpopular of an opinion, which makes it even harder to make a post so upfront and oppressive to current metas. I only wish you the best of luck on this mapset. No hard feelings toward you again, I definitely tried to tone my mod town as I went forth.

Best of luck.

- Spoon

Red: Keep, sorry, but I took your suggestion to heart and will continue to build on it in future maps. Sorry I could not apply it to this section in particular.

Green: Also keep.

Thank you so much for this mod. I'm sorry for having offended you to such an extent.


Red = Counter Argument
Purple = Could use work.

Thanks!!

Monstrata wrote:

Smoothie World wrote:

00:15:459 - Why is this stream section so much easier than 01:18:228 when its quite literally the same thing in the song? This map plays so forced and the difficulty just spikes at random spots without reason when the song is really quite basic with 2 or 3 different intensities.

It just doesn't feel appropriate to put the most difficult patterns within the first 15 seconds of the map. Also, when a section is completely repeated later, i like to give the earlier iteration less spacing, and the later one more emphasis in order to create some contrast, as well as intensity increase. It's not reflected in the song, yes. It's really my interpretation of it. Same section = same spacing is good sometimes, but I personally find it boring when its a really intense section that's being repeated.

Can you please stop using "it's my interpretation of it" as an argument on itself? If you have no fundament that you base your 'interpretation' on / openly admit that there is none, then don't expect it to be accepted. This is quite on point here:

That's quite an ironic statement lol. The same can be said for people who interpret "same intensity" as requiring "same spacing". It's their interpretation. I've interpreted maps that way for too long, and I've come to find that it really limits mapping expression by creating too many rules. You're welcome to disagree with my interpretation. I'm not expecting everyone to like my maps. There are many fundamentals in which I base my spacing interpretation on. The song's winding atmosphere in certain sections, the song's holistic progression, the central theme of growing pain and agony that's evident throughout the entire set... I put a lot of thought into my maps, I just don't feel the need to explain them. I generally dislike pedantry. But I can actually argue my points instead of using the "tell me where in RC that says this is unrankable" argument that you should be quite familiar with now xD.

"same intensity = same spacing" is an interpretative guideline that is related to the song, whatever you are doing is not, so I don't see how that's ironic.

If your reason for mapping the same thing differently is "the central theme of growing pain and agony that's evident throughout the entire set", then why not say that instead of the answer I just quoted? Looks like a much shorter answer and more reasonable to me, but now it just seems like you come up with a new reasoning as soon as the old one isn't being accepted anymore just to somehow get through with it.

Assuming that "the central theme of growing pain and agony that's evident throughout the entire set" is your real reasoning: I don't think that conveying this central theme worked here as it doesn't appear evident to me at all and looking at this thread it seems like nobody else got it either, and if your interpretation doesn't reach the players but instead leaves them wondering why you made the map like this then I don't consider that a good map in this aspect either.
fun fact: In german there's an idiom going "well-meant is the opposite of good"

You've already told me some of your fundamentals that you base your spacing interpretation on, and after reading through the full log of what I quoted a few pages ago again I can assure you that adding more context to it wouldn't put you in any better light, so don't try to act up all sophisticated here.

Can we all just calm down here? Monstrata is the guy that won the Aspire beatmapping contest of 2016 on the osu! game (developed by peppy). Have you been to his userpage? He is an Elite Mapper, not just a good mapper. So please, if you don't at least have the Elite Mapper title like Monstrata, your opinions on this map mean little to nothing. Monstrata has also created many other jaw dropping masterpieces like Santa San and ALIEN. If you cant play his map then you are just too weak #hollowwings #ghandi #allah #trump4president #freesmoothieworld #unbancookiezi

I've considered your concerns. I think you're too keen on your mapping philosophy being the correct one. Anyways, i've thoroughly entertained this discussion about spacing. You're welcome to continue the discussion on quaver where the spacing concept becomes the entire gimmick of the map. There's no point clarifying any more past here. We both know each others' arguments and we can't come to an agreement. That often happens.

Yunomi wrote:

Can we all just calm down here? Monstrata is the guy that won the Aspire beatmapping contest of 2016 on the osu! game (developed by peppy). Have you been to his userpage? He is an Elite Mapper, not just a good mapper. So please, if you don't at least have the Elite Mapper title like Monstrata, your opinions on this map mean little to nothing. Monstrata has also created many other jaw dropping masterpieces like Santa San and ALIEN. If you cant play his map then you are just too weak #hollowwings #ghandi #allah #trump4president #freesmoothieworld #unbancookiezi

Please stop.



Please put the focus to help the mapper and avoid any unnecessary conversations/comments here.

im just gunna note that most of the issues that were pointed out apply to almost every single other map that are ranked and seemed to be exaggerated here only because of the difficulty o-o

relative difficulty,,..,

edit: i do hav a question as 2 y 00:59:766 - and the stream is much hardr than the part in th middl :/ it makez no sens

edit2: wording,,

every monstrata map ever

It's a really intense section too @vinxis. I think the streams are more intense though, even if that's not reflected in the star rating system, or aim graphs.

th streamheavy parts r shown on th intense graphs lo (intensity = speed i guess idk Xd)

i was jstu thinking tht its rly weird tht the part between the aim heavy adn the stream heavy parts r much easir than those 2 spikes cuz it all seems p even in terms of the song'z intense CIty ;/

edit: id jsut suggest buffing the part between the aim intensive and stream intensive part but thts me,, tht way u keep evrythign else intact while mainting a better relative difficulty lo,

Mmm... I don't think so.

i edited both of my posts 2 jstu clear things up,, a bit cuz tHER mite b som misunderstanding as to wot im acutaly trying 2 tell u

wot i was actualy talking about is 01:03:459 - to 01:17:920 - being rlly ez compared to the jumps and the stream (before and after the part respectively) even tho the song's intensity is the same,,

the edit i made on the previous post is jstu a suggestion tht id recommmend for th diffz but yehja i dont think itll change ur mind anywy

i lik th rest of the map/diffs tho aside for tht,, thank mr monstrato.

It's harder to express the intensity there due to the lack of instrument backing ;c. People are a lot less tolerant to overmapping haha, even I know my limits ;c.

disagree

maybe the jumps in last diff should be nerfed but the 2nd stream being harder to play isnt much of a problem. a ton of maps have a late kiai that is much harder to play than the earlier ones.

the song really sucks though

it's really low quality and the vocalist is really lame and the guitar strumming is really generic

At this point you're (Monstrata) using music, no matter how shitty it is, as a tool just to garner attention and reactions from people, and that is outright disgusting to me. It's an affront to mapping and an insult to the community. Every one of your recent maps has been more about flexing your figurative muscles than actually mapping good music into a good map. Every recent map has been about you, rather than about the music, and that is so intrinsically selfish that I just can't stomach it anymore, which is why I generally pretend you don't exist.

Is this selfish mapping unrankable? Of course not. But it still smells faintly of piss and squid.



But too many people complain to me about you and this post is simply to pretend that I said something.

I thought that was obvious from the map description.

That just makes it all the more pathetic. I fear you have lost your way, and lost your love of music, it having turned into nothing but a tool.

If you ever cared about music to begin with.

Kibbleru wrote:

im just gunna note that most of the issues that were pointed out apply to almost every single other map that are ranked and seemed to be exaggerated here only because of the difficulty o-o

Yeah sorry for not making the effort to mod all crappy TVsize-maps there are, other maps having the same issues is no excuse for anything, I think that's common knowledge in modding.

Please, Shiirn xD.

Bonsai - Other maps having the same issue is not a good excuse, I agree. But other maps having the same "issue" does raise the question of how much of an issue this "issue" actually is.

Ignoring few difficulties' lack of quality
00:45:613 (4,1) - in Tragic Death Extra
This has to be changed, it's almost impossible to actually hit it, it's uncomfortable as fuck, the distance needed to travel there is way too big compared to rest of the map, missing every time.

i love bonsai

sorry if this has been already pointed out and explained but why exactly is this pattern 00:54:228 (1,2,1,2) - on Tragic Death 100 times harder than it is on Tortured Soul?

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:

Ignoring few difficulties' lack of quality
00:45:613 (4,1) - in Tragic Death Extra
This has to be changed, it's almost impossible to actually hit it, it's uncomfortable as fuck, the distance needed to travel there is way too big compared to rest of the map, missing every time.

Impossible?. It plays fine for me. It plays very similarly to a 1/2 slider in terms of how long you have to hold it. I can play it easily.

Tatsuyu wrote:

sorry if this has been already pointed out and explained but why exactly is this pattern 00:54:228 (1,2,1,2) - on Tragic Death 100 times harder than it is on Tortured Soul?

It's just a different interpretation.

Well it is playable, but due the distance between both objects the slider looks like it only has one repeat instead of two. And I don't always SS this part too. I mean, everywhere else it was way easier to read that there's only a 1/4 gap etc.

It's how I wanted this to play. The construction is similar to 00:44:997 (1,2) - but I want players to hold longer there to create a growing awareness of 1/4 rhythms because the next section is rife with kicksliders and triplet/5-plet streams. Looking at random replays, people don't really have trouble with it. Many can ss. I see a few people getting 100's there of course, but since its clearly doable, I think the 100's are attributed to misreading that as 1x repeat on sightread. That's fine. It's 2 repeats so once they know, they can always just repeat the map (haha).

I am taking this map down as there still seems to be the need for discussion.

Make sure to put efforts into convincing people with concerns of your creation with more than just sole disagreement. We would like to see some sort of technical explanations when their concerns are void. Otherwise, please try to figure out an optimal solution with the worrying community members.

Monstrata wrote:

It's how I wanted this to play. The construction is similar to 00:44:997 (1,2) - but I want players to hold longer there to create a growing awareness of 1/4 rhythms because the next section is rife with kicksliders and triplet/5-plet streams. Looking at random replays, people don't really have trouble with it. Many can ss. I see a few people getting 100's there of course, but since its clearly doable, I think the 100's are attributed to misreading that as 1x repeat on sightread. That's fine. It's 2 repeats so once they know, they can always just repeat the map (haha).

They're right about that slider. The 1/2 slider before it indicates there's a pause in beats which means people expect only 1 slider repeat there, that's why it's confusing, they move too fast to the other object (and it's spaced way too big for them not to go for it early).

I also SS'd it on sighread, but then missed on it just two times while having an FC.

I guess it doesn't hurt to remove one repeat. I'll do that.

What else still needs further discussion? I think I've thoroughly discussed and explained everything else so the dq is rather surprising.

Monstrata wrote:

What else still needs further discussion? I think I've thoroughly discussed and explained everything else so the dq is rather surprising.

Bonsai's arguments, basically.

Apparently, people are having problems between combos 350~370x and 460~470x if I remember correctly. Maybe taking a look at that?
Let me do a short list of things you could do. Please Nathan, do take these as suggestions from friend to friend.

The Eclipse

1. 00:08:074 (1,2,3,4) - Compared to 00:56:074 (1,2,3,1) - it just feels like a Collab. Mapped by two different people. The very first part should be the one with the low spacing since it is the very beginning of the map, or, if anything, they should be equally done. Having such a different way of mapping them (even they NCs are mapped differently, but that does not really matter) just feels vague.
2. 00:19:997 (4,1) - Minor, but I would have spaced these out a bit as the pitch is way more higher here, just like you did in 00:19:074 (12,1) - . On a side note, the transition from 00:18:690 (7,8,9,10,11,12) - to 00:19:151 (1,2,3) - is just terrible, you are making such a curved stream that will most likely tell players to move to any other direction but to the right. You made it to the right. This might not be "the best idea," but it is mostly to give you an idea of where players will expect to move.
3. 00:55:459 (2) - NC'ing this and (3) as well might guide people more into recognising it is not a 1/2 pattern. This may avoid some unnecessary 100s or even misses for readability.
4. 01:15:766 (1) - I would remove this NC, 01:15:459 (1,1) - that is not a 1/1 pattern, you do not want to mislead people, right? By the way, you could definitely add more space to 01:15:766 (1,1) - right now just seems like another 1/2 pattern. Not that big of a deal, but it might improve visuals somehow.
5. 01:26:074 (6,7,8,9,10) - Personally, using kick-sliders seems like a better way to go. Ignoring 01:26:151 - just seems way too lazy, and both (8,10) would be better if they were mapped as slider-tails.
6. 01:26:536 (1,2,3) - Kinda threw me off a little, could not even read it. (2,3) seems more like an anti-jump than anything else. Would you consider moving things around a tad? For example, a pattern like this one just feels more intuitive.

Tortured Soul Extra

1. 00:08:997 (1,1) - Alright, I have no clue on why these are NC'd but the ones on the highest difficulty are not. Damn, man. I love you way too much to tell you things like that already!
2. 00:26:382 (2,1) - If you use such a spacing here, try to keep it consistent throughout the whole section. That being said, 00:27:151 (6,1) - they could be equally (well, maybe not that much, the music is slowing down here) spaced.
3. 00:47:305 (4) - An NC might work here, especially if you want to help readability.

This difficulty is actually very well done.

Tragic Death Extra

1. 00:08:074 (1,2,3,4) - You are the most inconsistent guy I have ever met in this game so far. I still love you, though.
2. 00:54:228 (1,2,1,2) - Pattern has more spacing and it is actually harder to hit than on the Tortuted Soul. What do you think about keeping things more concentrated in a specific area of the playing field instead of having them spread out in the corners (especially the lower left one, that is a pain to hit, the transition is not as good as expected.)
3. 00:59:766 - An actual almost-perfect build-up I would say. It may sound kinda nazi, but for the sake of the momentum, even spacing 00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - between doubles might help even more.
4. 01:16:536 (2,3,1) - Not so sure what explanation do you have for this pattern in particular, but I find it to be very unclear. Especially the hit window from (3,1) on this difficulty in particular. To be honest, if you compare it to other 1/4s it does not seem too hard, but considering your previous patterns, it just feels too forced.

Excruciating Extra

1. 01:24:843 (2) - Extremely nazi, but rotating this slider by 40° looks cooler.

Traumatized Hard

1. 00:45:152 (2,3,4) - Making the spacing visually even might look more consistent since that is what you are doing with the following patterns.

Painfully Easy

Personal comment, but the 1/1 spacing in this map is quite... bad. I would have gone with a higher spacing definitelly, it is altogether right now, seems messy. As said, it is a preference.

[]

The mapset is actually very clean, I was expecting something worse judging but all those comments... I ended up liking it a lot, actually haha.

Good luck, you can call me back. I owe you a mod anyway, here is it.

Thanks yuii!

Anyways, discussed some things with Desperate-kun. I'm sure i've already discussed everything regarding the spacing, but it's all scattered throughout the thread, and I think it'd be best to tie everything together in one cohesive post. I don't doubt that there will still be grievances and disagreements between members of the modding community. If everyone had the same views, maps would be so bland.

The spacing is large to capture the intensity of the song. What can qualify this spacing? First of all, we have to consider the entire jump section. The intensity is building, from my interpretation of it. And my interpretation stems from the pitch increasing, and the feeling I get from the song. Pitch increase is generally a supported explanation of increased spacing nowadays, and a good indicator of intensity. The atmosphere just feels foreboding, like everything is building up to a certain moment. I've developed this theme further through how I've named my difficulties, ultimately finishing with "The Eclipse" which, in the Berserk story, is the pivotal event in the story where basically all hell breaks lose. From the music, this is the sort of feeling I get, and its a feeling I want to give to players. When you play jumps that are the same spacing, you don't feel this sense of stress and strain that comes from having to increase your speed slightly more, and more, and more to land every consecutive jump after it. I think this feeling is absolutely necessary to enjoy the song, and its why "same intensity (which i disagree on) = same spacing" doesn't fit here for me.

As for why they have to be that large, I think the spacing is necessary to convey a level of intensity that continues to build on the previous difficulty, creating a theme that runs throughout all the difficulties. Why this spacing? Why not scale it down by 0.9x or something? I think the argument boils down to what spacing you consider acceptable, and what you consider "too much". And we all define things differently. I do want to create these really difficult maps to challenge top players, but I also believe the spacing here fits the difficulty I want to convey. What difficulty do I want to convey? Well, we have to consider the deathstreams too then, because I believe the streams are the highlights of the map, not the jumps. The jumps are by comparison, much easier to land, than the streams. We are just a lot more critical of jumps because we see jump techniques a lot more often (due to pp maps) than stream techniques. I encourage you to step back from that, and consider it from a top player. Jumps are easier, they are a lot less demanding, rhythmically, and they are so rife in the current meta. Furthermore, I'm confident the jumps I've set up are angled and spaced in a way that make them intuitive to play. So yes, if you want to ignore the ideas behind the jumps, and their relation, you can say that I map these jumps for difficulty. I can't give you an objective reason why I shouldn't reduce the spacing. But you can't give me an objective reason for why I can't increase the spacing. Its too large can be met with "its not too large/your suggestion is too small etc..." and its a spacing philosophy we have to respect on both sides. I can only say that the jumps are spaced that far apart because I think they reflect the song's intensity relative to every player bracket that the star rating would attribute them to: (top 100 / top 1000 / top 5000 / top 20000 etc... ). Can they be smaller, yes. Can they be larger, yes. I've already considered the spacing a lot, and nerfed it from its original 7.77 stars (I originally wanted 7.77/6.66/5.55/4.44 etc...) and I believe what I have now is a good representation of the intended difficulty.

"Why is the first part easier than the second part" is another discussion I think Bonsai touched upon. For that I want to create two sections in the song, an easier section, and a harder section as the player plays through the song. I don't want the player to have this mindset of "oh, the difficult part is coming again" in their head. I think "oh, the difficult is coming" fits the foreboding theme a lot better. As well, ending big is just another commonplace technique you see in many maps. End in a bang, not a whimper, right? Both sections are very similar musically (you can even call them identical) so I think considering their placement in the song is key here. One is much earlier, when the player hasn't really listened to much of the song, or experienced the growing despair. It's too early to really home in on this "growing intensity" theme, and honestly, quaver is a much better representation of this theme as I have a good 2.5 minutes to convey it instead of only 90 seconds here. Lets put this in the perspective of a gradient. If you want Blue to be the base like, and Purple to be the most intense part of a song,

Putting just Blue and Purple wouldn't look that nice.
The more colors you can have in between, the better the effect will become.

That's the idea of growing intensity instead of jumping straight into really big jumps.

[]

I hope that clarifies my intentions and reasonings better. I'll now go through mods again before pushing this forward. I guess quaver is going to happen first, then.

Yuii- wrote:

Apparently, people are having problems between combos 350~370x and 460~470x if I remember correctly. Maybe taking a look at that?
Let me do a short list of things you could do. Please Nathan, do take these as suggestions from friend to friend.

The Eclipse

1. 00:08:074 (1,2,3,4) - Compared to 00:56:074 (1,2,3,1) - it just feels like a Collab. Mapped by two different people. The very first part should be the one with the low spacing since it is the very beginning of the map, or, if anything, they should be equally done. Having such a different way of mapping them (even they NCs are mapped differently, but that does not really matter) just feels vague. Okay, fixed the NC
2. 00:19:997 (4,1) - Minor, but I would have spaced these out a bit as the pitch is way more higher here, just like you did in 00:19:074 (12,1) - . On a side note, the transition from 00:18:690 (7,8,9,10,11,12) - to 00:19:151 (1,2,3) - is just terrible, you are making such a curved stream that will most likely tell players to move to any other direction but to the right. You made it to the right. This might not be "the best idea," but it is mostly to give you an idea of where players will expect to move. I think the flowbreak fits really well here though. And I prefer using the same spacing, im drawing emphasis on sharp turns etc..
3. 00:55:459 (2) - NC'ing this and (3) as well might guide people more into recognising it is not a 1/2 pattern. This may avoid some unnecessary 100s or even misses for readability. I think its easy enough to tell these are 1/1 cuz of the AR. If it were 1/2 the high AR would give it away imo.
4. 01:15:766 (1) - I would remove this NC, 01:15:459 (1,1) - that is not a 1/1 pattern, you do not want to mislead people, right? By the way, you could definitely add more space to 01:15:766 (1,1) - right now just seems like another 1/2 pattern. Not that big of a deal, but it might improve visuals somehow. Sure, why not xD.
5. 01:26:074 (6,7,8,9,10) - Personally, using kick-sliders seems like a better way to go. Ignoring 01:26:151 - just seems way too lazy, and both (8,10) would be better if they were mapped as slider-tails. Ehh, I prefer the way its constructed atm. The rhythm works really well for me anyways, and I think its a nice transition instead of just using two 5 note streams in a row.
6. 01:26:536 (1,2,3) - Kinda threw me off a little, could not even read it. (2,3) seems more like an anti-jump than anything else. Would you consider moving things around a tad? For example, a pattern like this one just feels more intuitive. Good point. Moved it.

Tortured Soul Extra

1. 00:08:997 (1,1) - Alright, I have no clue on why these are NC'd but the ones on the highest difficulty are not. Damn, man. I love you way too much to tell you things like that already! I actually NC'ed based on this idea: If the sliders "worked" with each other ie were copy/pasted, I'd NC spam, if they were different slider shapes, then i'd keep a single combo
2. 00:26:382 (2,1) - If you use such a spacing here, try to keep it consistent throughout the whole section. That being said, 00:27:151 (6,1) - they could be equally (well, maybe not that much, the music is slowing down here) spaced. Made it more spaced
3. 00:47:305 (4) - An NC might work here, especially if you want to help readability. Sure

This difficulty is actually very well done.

Tragic Death Extra

1. 00:08:074 (1,2,3,4) - You are the most inconsistent guy I have ever met in this game so far. I still love you, though. Keeping it here since its a different arrangement.
2. 00:54:228 (1,2,1,2) - Pattern has more spacing and it is actually harder to hit than on the Tortuted Soul. What do you think about keeping things more concentrated in a specific area of the playing field instead of having them spread out in the corners (especially the lower left one, that is a pain to hit, the transition is not as good as expected.) I think its fine for this to be harder than tortured soul. The map holistically should be more difficult, but some patterns may be easier/harder than others, and here is a good place for variety i think.
3. 00:59:766 - An actual almost-perfect build-up I would say. It may sound kinda nazi, but for the sake of the momentum, even spacing 00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - between doubles might help even more. I prefer my current arrangement. Changing the spacing here is indeed too nazi, and it would mess up my structure actuall xP.
4. 01:16:536 (2,3,1) - Not so sure what explanation do you have for this pattern in particular, but I find it to be very unclear. Especially the hit window from (3,1) on this difficulty in particular. To be honest, if you compare it to other 1/4s it does not seem too hard, but considering your previous patterns, it just feels too forced. Hmmm... I don't know. This doesn't feel forced at all for me xP. I think the flowbreak onto 1 is barely noticeable anyways since its a stream, and generally 1/4 notes "reset" flow. Transition from 2>3>1 isn't that harsh either.

Excruciating Extra

1. 01:24:843 (2) - Extremely nazi, but rotating this slider by 40° looks cooler. idk< i think what I have is cooler lol. You get that structure going with 2's sliderhead and tail

Traumatized Hard

1. 00:45:152 (2,3,4) - Making the spacing visually even might look more consistent since that is what you are doing with the following patterns. I think this arrangement is better. It doesn't look as consistent, but it plays really well imo.

Painfully Easy

Personal comment, but the 1/1 spacing in this map is quite... bad. I would have gone with a higher spacing definitelly, it is altogether right now, seems messy. As said, it is a preference. Hmm... Idk its not overlapping at all so I can't see it being messy. Slider-borders never touch.

[]

The mapset is actually very clean, I was expecting something worse judging but all those comments... I ended up liking it a lot, actually haha.

Good luck, you can call me back. I owe you a mod anyway, here is it.

Thanks yuii!!

Also after some discussion with other top players

[Eclipse]

01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - Has been nerfed. 01:01:613 (1,3,5) - Have all been moved leftward, and the DS has been scaled down. The jumps are still cross-screen and big, like I want them to be, but I realize they may be too large for some people so I'll nerf it even a bit more.

[Tragic Death]

00:45:613 (4) - Removed a repeat as per worstpolackue's mod.

[]

Lets see how this goes.