Ocelot - TSUBAKI · forum

Irreversible

osu! Alumni

Joined December 2011

Irreversible 2016-05-08T16:53:31+00:00

osu file format v14

[General]
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[Editor]
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[Metadata]
Title:TSUBAKI
TitleUnicode:TSUBAKI
Artist:Ocelot
ArtistUnicode:Ocelot
Creator:Hollow Wings
Version:Irrelvis' EX
Source:
Tags:Diverse System JAPAN Rin Ginsuke Function Phantom Enjoy CLSW ZZHBOY JJburstOwO Streliteela Minakami Yuki mtbbsben Rizia Kawaiwkyik liangv587 Irreversible EvilElvis -kevincela- fanzhen0019 examination Moecho smallboat
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256,280,156865,6,0,P|226:295|192:295,1,67.4999964237214,4|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
112,256,157166,2,0,P|82:241|48:241,1,67.4999964237214,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
16,124,157468,5,8,0:1:0:0:
77,142,157543,1,2,0:0:0:0:
141,151,157618,1,8,0:3:0:0:
205,152,157694,1,2,0:0:0:0:
269,145,157769,1,8,0:3:0:0:
332,129,157844,1,2,0:0:0:0:
392,105,157920,1,8,0:3:0:0:
448,74,157995,1,2,0:0:0:0:
499,35,158071,6,0,L|507:119,1,67.4999964237214,4|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
448,224,158372,2,0,L|454:291,1,67.4999964237214,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
372,360,158674,6,0,P|320:372|304:368,1,44.9999976158143,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
140,336,158824,2,0,P|192:324|208:328,1,44.9999976158143,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
356,240,158975,6,0,L|350:166,1,67.499998998642,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
204,72,159126,2,0,L|198:146,1,67.499998998642,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
368,248,159277,6,0,L|359:139,1,76.4999974060059,0|0,1:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
192,60,159427,2,0,L|184:147,1,76.4999974060059,8|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
128,224,159578,6,0,P|32:252|16:252,1,101.249998497963,4|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
188,276,159880,6,0,P|204:232|200:224,1,33.749999499321,8|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
323,108,160030,2,0,P|311:119|306:135,1,33.749999499321,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
172,124,160181,2,0,P|183:136|199:141,1,33.749999499321,8|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
339,259,160331,2,0,P|327:247|312:241,1,33.749999499321,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
480,212,160483,5,4,1:0:0:0:
306,135,160633,1,8,0:3:0:0:
288,316,160784,5,8,1:0:0:0:
208,192,160934,1,2,0:0:0:0:
160,308,161086,5,8,0:3:0:0:
112,168,161236,1,8,1:0:0:0:
12,212,161387,5,2,0:0:0:0:
32,120,161537,1,4,1:0:0:0:
365,13,161689,6,0,P|366:57|372:90,1,67.4999964237214,4|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
393,111,161990,1,0,0:0:0:0:
261,359,162141,1,0,0:0:0:0:
68,143,162292,5,8,0:1:0:0:
48,152,162367,1,0,0:0:0:0:
43,233,162442,5,8,0:3:0:0:
67,245,162518,1,0,0:0:0:0:
136,207,162593,6,0,L|140:160,1,33.749999499321,8|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
63,46,162744,6,0,L|105:69,1,33.749999499321,0|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
292,44,162895,6,0,L|184:83,1,101.249998497963,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
244,180,163196,6,0,P|298:195|394:166,1,134.999992847443,8|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
507,274,163498,6,0,P|460:259|394:271,1,101.249998497963,8|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
294,348,163799,6,0,P|343:342|376:352,1,67.4999964237214,8|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
501,162,164101,6,0,L|503:108,1,44.9999976158143,0|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
425,125,164327,6,0,L|428:69,1,33.749999499321,0|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
351,90,164553,6,0,L|353:67,1,22.4999988079071,0|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
279,60,164779,6,0,L|281:40,1,11.2499994039536,0|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
279,60,165005,6,0,L|258:346,1,269.999985694885,2|0,1:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
182,355,165307,5,2,0:0:0:0:
180,321,165382,1,2,0:0:0:0:
138,264,165458,5,8,0:3:0:0:
143,230,165533,1,2,0:0:0:0:
195,164,165608,6,0,L|142:155,1,33.749999499321,8|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
23,119,165759,2,0,L|58:114,1,33.749999499321,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
196,46,165910,5,8,0:1:0:0:
41,216,166061,1,8,0:1:0:0:
288,98,166211,6,0,L|284:27,1,67.4999964237214,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
288,98,166513,6,0,P|305:151|442:198,1,202.499996995926,4|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
460,133,166814,1,4,0:3:0:0:
266,360,166965,5,0,0:0:0:0:
266,360,167116,1,8,0:1:0:0:
172,160,167267,5,4,0:0:0:0:
110,367,167417,2,0,L|117:217,1,134.999997997284,4|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
81,219,167606,2,0,L|83:161,2,33.749999499321
52,241,167719,6,0,L|59:121,1,107.999990982056,8|4,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
215,358,168020,2,0,L|222:208,1,134.999997997284,0|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
421,37,168322,6,0,P|463:87|448:155,1,134.999992847443,8|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
301,162,168623,6,0,P|284:108|304:61,1,101.249998497963,8|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
464,233,168925,6,0,B|422:228|391:246|391:246|412:247,1,89.9999952316285,4|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
391,281,169377,5,8,0:3:0:0:
374,30,169528,1,2,0:0:0:0:
166,132,169679,1,0,0:0:0:0:
349,164,169829,5,2,0:0:0:0:
349,164,169980,1,0,0:0:0:0:
163,243,170131,6,0,B|90:221|52:233|52:233|97:266,1,134.999992847443,4|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
359,276,170432,6,0,B|401:251|444:272|444:272|430:279,1,101.249998497963,0|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
251,362,170734,6,0,B|228:271|276:302|250:202,1,157.49999165535,0|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
287,166,171337,5,4,1:2:0:0:
266,173,171412,1,0,0:0:0:0:
243,173,171488,1,0,0:0:0:0:
220,168,171563,1,0,0:0:0:0:
205,123,171638,5,0,0:0:0:0:
164,143,171714,1,0,0:0:0:0:
120,152,171789,1,8,0:0:0:0:
74,150,171865,1,0,0:0:0:0:
17,197,171940,6,0,L|25:275,1,67.4999964237214,0|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
82,319,172241,5,4,1:2:0:0:
100,306,172317,1,0,0:0:0:0:
128,302,172392,1,0,0:0:0:0:
150,306,172468,1,0,0:0:0:0:
194,284,172543,5,0,0:0:0:0:
228,267,172618,1,0,0:0:0:0:
266,268,172694,1,8,0:0:0:0:
302,280,172769,1,0,0:0:0:0:
380,240,172844,6,0,L|383:295,1,44.9999976158143,8|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
444,339,173146,1,4,1:2:0:0:
444,339,173447,1,8,1:0:0:0:
444,339,173749,5,4,1:2:0:0:
411,346,173824,1,0,0:0:0:0:
377,343,173900,1,0,0:0:0:0:
349,323,173975,1,0,0:0:0:0:
312,294,174050,5,0,0:0:0:0:
272,263,174126,1,0,0:0:0:0:
220,256,174201,1,8,0:0:0:0:
177,276,174277,1,0,0:0:0:0:
98,229,174352,6,0,P|91:199|95:153,1,67.4999964237214,0|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
144,78,174653,5,4,1:2:0:0:
177,71,174728,1,0,0:0:0:0:
211,74,174804,1,0,0:0:0:0:
239,94,174879,1,0,0:0:0:0:
275,128,174954,5,0,0:0:0:0:
315,159,175030,1,0,0:0:0:0:
364,166,175105,1,8,0:0:0:0:
410,146,175181,1,0,0:0:0:0:
486,176,175256,6,0,P|493:206|489:252,1,67.4999964237214,8|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
459,310,175558,5,4,1:2:0:0:
53,310,175708,1,8,1:0:0:0:
172,192,175860,1,8,1:0:0:0:
178,170,175935,1,0,0:0:0:0:
182,148,176010,1,8,0:3:0:0:
184,126,176086,1,0,0:0:0:0:
184,104,176161,6,0,P|283:112|352:124,1,134.999992847443,4|0,1:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
396,68,176463,1,0,1:0:0:0:
460,288,176613,1,8,0:0:0:0:
438,341,176689,1,0,0:0:0:0:
379,338,176764,1,0,0:0:0:0:
365,281,176839,1,0,0:0:0:0:
413,249,176915,1,0,1:0:0:0:
328,104,177066,6,0,P|228:112|160:124,1,134.999992847443,4|0,1:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
116,68,177368,1,0,1:0:0:0:
52,288,177518,1,8,0:3:0:0:
74,341,177594,1,0,0:0:0:0:
133,338,177669,1,8,0:3:0:0:
147,281,177744,1,0,0:0:0:0:
99,249,177820,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,340,177970,5,4,1:2:0:0:
192,116,178121,1,8,1:0:0:0:
256,340,178272,1,8,1:0:0:0:
336,280,178573,6,0,L|403:276,1,67.4999964237214,4|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
460,312,178875,2,0,P|452:295|442:307,1,33.749999499321,0|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
380,196,179025,6,0,B|372:108|372:108|392:152,1,134.999992847443,4|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
420,48,179327,2,0,P|408:24|384:40,1,53.999995491028,0|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
224,96,179478,6,0,B|104:120|104:120|156:128,1,175.499982667924,4|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
128,204,179779,2,0,L|60:196,1,62.9999947395327
312,320,179930,6,0,P|360:256|376:348,1,202.499996995926,4|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
232,348,180231,2,0,L|164:340,1,67.499998998642,0|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
16,192,180382,6,0,L|169:181,1,134.999997997284,4|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
420,164,180608,6,0,P|436:28|372:148,1,382.499979734421,0|0,0:2|0:2,0:2:0:0:

thx for applying hw, everything was well done and justified.
I found some wrong hitsounds and one unsnap, so i decided to fix it

02:31:739 (3,1) - I am not sure about this snap, to be honest but i don't know a better one, maybe u wanna check it to avoid a dq.

ClrSCR

39 posts

Joined March 2015

ClrSCR 2016-05-08T19:34:56+00:00

ranked ?

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2016-05-08T21:28:19+00:00

Let me know when Irre's update has been applied~ I've rechecked the other diffs, everything else is ready to go!

Hollow Wings

1,514 posts

Joined July 2010

Topic Starter

Hollow Wings 2016-05-08T22:50:12+00:00

Irreversible wrote:
thx for applying hw, everything was well done and justified.
I found some wrong hitsounds and one unsnap, so i decided to fix it

02:31:739 (3,1) - I am not sure about this snap, to be honest but i don't know a better one, maybe u wanna check it to avoid a dq. i'm sure the slider should not follow that random electric beats and changed that into a note snapping at 1/6 ticks commonly.

Monstrata wrote:
Let me know when Irre's update has been applied~ I've rechecked the other diffs, everything else is ready to go! ok now the map is fully ready.

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2016-05-09T01:21:02+00:00

Looks good to me now! Qualified!

Mismagius

9,313 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-05-09T01:40:33+00:00

here comes the "I hate HW mapping and I'll do everything to stop it" circlejerk trying to find reasons for this to get DQ'd

good luck! great map!

Anxient

1,573 posts

Joined June 2014

Anxient 2016-05-09T02:12:37+00:00

at least EX EX isnt ar 10 anymore :p

no complaints here. congratz hw!

Spaghetti

1,118 posts

Joined August 2014

Spaghetti 2016-05-09T02:18:56+00:00

I hate HW mapping and I'll do everything to stop it

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Shiirn 2016-05-09T02:20:17+00:00

Blue Dragon wrote:
I hate HW mapping and I'll do everything to stop it

how could you say such a thing?! quoted in case he deletes it to hide his opinion!

Haruto

1,815 posts

Joined December 2013

Haruto 2016-05-09T02:42:18+00:00

Congrats HW!

Stjpa

899 posts

Joined July 2013

Stjpa 2016-05-09T02:50:50+00:00

That insta qualify after the other Tsubaki got ranked lol.

Liiraye

1,354 posts

Joined December 2011

Liiraye 2016-05-09T03:02:52+00:00

Shiirn wrote:
Placeholder, will mod tomorrow

how could you say such a thing?! quoted in case he deletes it to hide his opinion!

Nathan

2,161 posts

Joined August 2014

Nathan 2016-05-09T03:11:13+00:00

grats!

Kathex

200 posts

Joined September 2014

Kathex 2016-05-09T03:52:07+00:00

Hello guys,
its a prank? Is realy happening?
as always i need to refute maps like this.

Apparently the BN circle have trouble to read ranking criteria.

[Ranking Criteria]
Rules:

All rules are exactly that: RULES. They are NOT guidelines and may NOT be broken under ANY circumstance.
A maximum of three slider velocities should be used (including 1x). For example, you could have a single map using 0.6x, 0.8x, and 1x; or 0.75x, 1x, and 1.5x; etc.
If more than three slider velocities are used, then they should make sense and be intuitive. If slider velocity changes are able to be merged (e.g. close values like 0.8x and 0.7x) while still flowing/working correctly, then they should be.
When including a slider velocity change, there should be a discernible change in the map's tempo. A spacing change, a short break in the map, or a slider containing at least one tick will help show the transition between them.
Make sure that you can pass each difficulty in your mapset. Continually test-playing your map is one of the best ways to spot mistakes and correct issues.

EX EX
Here some problems with slider speed
01:04:000 (1) - this slider speed transition broke one or more ranking criteria rules.
01:06:412 (1) - its not discernible plus same ^^
01:06:714 (1) - same ^^
01:07:618 (1) - same ^^
01:09:277 (1) - same ^^
01:11:236 (1) - same ^^
01:11:839 (1) - same ^^
01:12:442 (1) - same ^^
01:12:744 (1) - same ^^
01:16:061 (1) - same ^^
01:16:362 (1) - same ^^
01:17:267 (1) - same ^^
01:17:870 (1,2,1) - How a player will know the slider speed if they have the same size but different speeds?
I dont will cite more problems like these, but have more valid for the rest of the map.

By the way, its can be called a flow? Realy making sense use horrible flow like it in 2016?

Pls stop bn circle jerking. I hate how mappers like this get ranked shit and others realy good maps dont.

Help us PPY!!!

Nathan

2,161 posts

Joined August 2014

Nathan 2016-05-09T04:01:56+00:00

Kathex wrote:
All rules are exactly that: RULES. They are NOT guidelines and may NOT be broken under ANY circumstance.

are you actually serious lol

Ascendance

Elite Mapper

4,252 posts

Joined July 2013

Ascendance 2016-05-09T04:08:39+00:00

wew lad

good for ctb gz hw

Kathex

200 posts

Joined September 2014

Kathex 2016-05-09T04:10:47+00:00

Oh ofc we are talking about hollow wings, he is a special case.

Chaoslitz

Elite Mapper / Elite Storyboarder

2,325 posts

Joined November 2013

Chaoslitz 2016-05-09T04:12:30+00:00

Kathex wrote:
Apparently the BN circle have trouble to read ranking criteria

Seriously I hope it is just a prank...

I don't think it is good to call any maps being circlejerked if you wish maps you dislike to be disqualified right?

Anyway gratz HW.

Stjpa

899 posts

Joined July 2013

Stjpa 2016-05-09T04:13:37+00:00

Just for your information, a lot of points in the ranked criteria aren't valid anymore yet it's not changed there. Nowadays you can almost completely ignore it and rank a map because it's outdated as hell.

Yunomi

292 posts

Joined May 2014

Yunomi 2016-05-09T04:13:51+00:00

gratz on qualify. plz dont silence me again

Kathex

200 posts

Joined September 2014

Kathex 2016-05-09T04:14:50+00:00

Stjpa wrote:
Just for your information, a lot of points in the ranked criteria aren't valid anymore yet it's not changed there. Nowadays you can almost completely ignore it and rank a map because it's outdated as hell.

Hm interesting lets back to square maps then

Anxient

1,573 posts

Joined June 2014

Anxient 2016-05-09T04:17:55+00:00

Adore wrote:
gratz on qualify. plz dont silence me again

top snek

Iceskulls

1,612 posts

Joined February 2012

Iceskulls 2016-05-09T04:24:27+00:00

gratz on requa xd

Mismagius

9,313 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-05-09T04:46:13+00:00

Kathex wrote:
Stjpa wrote:
Just for your information, a lot of points in the ranked criteria aren't valid anymore yet it's not changed there. Nowadays you can almost completely ignore it and rank a map because it's outdated as hell.
Hm interesting lets back to square maps then

I wouldn't mind that. I find them fun. Why would you mind that? Why do you even care about maps YOU don't like being ranked, and why are you talking about BN circlejerk even though there are 16 pages of discussion about this map reaching to the point we decided it's okay to be qualified? You're not a mapper (even though you have 22 unranked maps, which are certainly of inferior quality to any of HW's, or any decent mapper's maps), you're not a skilled player and you're not a skilled modder, considering the fact that you're taking 7 year old rules out of context and throwing arguments such as "there are better maps that dont get ranked" and "might as well get back to 2008 mapping" without even any proof of what maps aren't getting ranked or why. You have literally no reason to say what you're stating in the thread other than "this map is bad and you should feel bad. i have absolutely no proof that it's bad other than pointing random sliders and an ancient rule from the old ranking criteria". Your post is nothing more than an insult to HW who works hard on their maps, all the players who enjoy playing the map, and all of the modders and BNs involved in the qualifying procedure of this map, since, according to you, this map just got ranked because of BN circlejerk.

This is why we can't have nice things. Do yourself a favor and don't post in this thread again unless you have solid proof as of why or what "good maps aren't getting ranked" or be able to answer without using arguments such as "I don't need to be a chef to know that this food tastes bad".

Sorry for any typos. Posting this from my cellphone. If this post is 'offensive' in any way please tell me why because I'm simply stating why his post was an insult to people.

Last edited by Mismagius 2016-05-09T04:57:37+00:00, edited 2 times in total.

sahuang

2,294 posts

Joined December 2014

sahuang 2016-05-09T04:52:00+00:00

Adore wrote:
gratz on qualify. plz dont silence me again

Kyouren

5,659 posts

Joined October 2012

Kyouren 2016-05-09T05:02:57+00:00

Gratzz for HELIX2# :3

winber1

4,520 posts

Joined February 2010

winber1 2016-05-09T05:45:15+00:00

KittyAdventure wrote:
Gratzz for HELIX2# :3

bich helix was fun

this is almost cancer

this is the opposite of helix (aka straight lines)

Anxient

1,573 posts

Joined June 2014

Anxient 2016-05-09T06:54:55+00:00

winber1 wrote:
KittyAdventure wrote:
Gratzz for HELIX2# :3
bich helix was fun

this is almost cancer

this is the opposite of ~~helix (aka straight lines)~~ deconstruction star

FTFY

Rizia

3,114 posts

Joined January 2012

Rizia 2016-05-09T07:59:30+00:00

gratz!

Kathex

200 posts

Joined September 2014

Kathex 2016-05-09T11:32:29+00:00

Blue Dragon wrote:
I wouldn't mind that. I find them fun. Why would you mind that? Why do you even care about maps YOU don't like being ranked, and why are you talking about BN circlejerk even though there are 16 pages of discussion about this map reaching to the point we decided it's okay to be qualified? You're not a mapper (even though you have 22 unranked maps, which are certainly of inferior quality to any of HW's, or any decent mapper's maps), you're not a skilled player and you're not a skilled modder, considering the fact that you're taking 7 year old rules out of context and throwing arguments such as "there are better maps that dont get ranked" and "might as well get back to 2008 mapping" without even any proof of what maps aren't getting ranked or why. You have literally no reason to say what you're stating in the thread other than "this map is bad and you should feel bad. i have absolutely no proof that it's bad other than pointing random sliders and an ancient rule from the old ranking criteria". Your post is nothing more than an insult to HW who works hard on their maps, all the players who enjoy playing the map, and all of the modders and BNs involved in the qualifying procedure of this map, since, according to you, this map just got ranked because of BN circlejerk.

This is why we can't have nice things. Do yourself a favor and don't post in this thread again unless you have solid proof as of why or what "good maps aren't getting ranked" or be able to answer without using arguments such as "I don't need to be a chef to know that this food tastes bad".

Sorry for any typos. Posting this from my cellphone. If this post is 'offensive' in any way please tell me why because I'm simply stating why his post was an insult to people.

If you look for my previous posts in forum, you'll realize that my post here is to complain with BN circlejerk, not to insult HW.
If i like hollow wings maps or not its a opnion. I can't use my opnion to say hollow wings maps is bad.
Yeh i know ranking criteria is very old and thats the reason why i use it. With the supposed rules being just ignored like Stjpa say, why just peoples like you, HW, i mean all people with some famous are the only that can rank a map that looks more like an insult for players? No, Im not saying this map is shit, Im saying you know that this map uses doubtful elements.
Then my complain is that system favors only few mappers. It dont give the opportunity for every good mappers rank "innovation" map like it.
Thats why i say stop bn circlejerking, give more attention for others new good mappers, not only for few famous.

About your criticism about me and my maps, I ask for you, did you see how much maps i made for try get ranked? Have you read in my userpage my mapping purpuses? My complain here doesnt is to someone give attention to my maps, my intention is make they change this unfair and slow ranking system. You dont think its slow? Look this map took 7 months to get qualified, even though from HW a famous mapper. Then this system is realy bad, you know it.
I apologize to HW for be here complaining about this system, my intention isnt DQ your map. I hope you understand. But if no one complain about it in public like me, how they will change this crap? My last post suggesting changes in it was ignored and locked. I will not give up until improve the system.
And blue dragon i hope you stop support the actual system, you even went through difficulties to rank their own maps. Why do you support it? You think it's good the way it is?

Nelka714

412 posts

Joined October 2014

Nelka714 2016-05-09T11:49:10+00:00

Kathex wrote:
Oh ofc we are talking about hollow wings, he is a special case.

*she

Kathex wrote:
Yeh i know ranking criteria is very old and thats the reason why i use it.

uh...

Kathex

200 posts

Joined September 2014

Kathex 2016-05-09T12:06:32+00:00

Nelka714 wrote:
uh...

Cause its old, need to be remake

Sotarks

3,524 posts

Joined May 2014

Sotarks 2016-05-09T12:09:49+00:00

Poeple complaining about circlejerk will always make me laugh, *grabbing popcorn*
Kathex, you have just not a single idea of what you are talking about.. Please don't be mad because you can't rank your maps.

Anyway, gratz HW!
Nice set

Okoayu

Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator

4,959 posts

Joined May 2012

Okoayu 2016-05-09T12:10:39+00:00

Hello Kathex,

It has come to my attention that you seem to be operating under a misconception, so I may want to comment on that:
"Guidelines are important and should be followed in most maps. However, they are NOT rules, so they may be broken in special cases. If you want to break a guideline, ask yourself this: Does what I'm about to do make sense? Is it more fun to play like this compared to sticking to the guidelines? If you answer yes to both these questions, then it is probably okay.
When your guideline-breaking map gets modded, try to be as reasonable as possible: Do your best to explain your point of view and be open to suggestions."

All the things you quoted are part of the guidelines, though both the general and standard-specific guidelines are partly out of touch and contemporary mapping tends to ignore the things concerning the maximum of 3 slidervelocities and sv changes.

I opened up 2 threads in the ranking criteria subforum to get the guidelines cleaned up to fit the current mapping meta better:

t/449389
t/449333

If you wish to discuss the suggested things, please do it there!
If you wish to complain about BN circlejerk without any real basis you shouldnt do it in a mapthread with 16 pages of discussion!
Nobody is here to discuss the ranking criteria or the current bn status, let alone your maps. This is a very specific beatmap thread so your discussion should be focused on the map rather than bns or guidelines that many consider not contemporary.

Seni

715 posts

Joined August 2014

Seni 2016-05-09T12:54:11+00:00

xd wtf

-Atri-

3,049 posts

Joined March 2013

-Atri- 2016-05-09T13:48:57+00:00

Please don't blindly follow the RC and use common sense, they're not rules so it's not absolute

thank you.

Bursthammy

1,254 posts

Joined May 2015

Bursthammy 2016-05-09T16:55:05+00:00

Anxient wrote:
at least EX EX isnt ar 10 anymore :p

all me

Kathex wrote:
my intention is make they change this unfair and slow ranking system. You dont think its slow? Look this map took 7 months to get qualified, even though from HW a famous mapper. Then this system is realy bad, you know it.

Just going to point out two things here:

1. This mapset has 14 difficulties, 12 of which are guest difficulties, I wouldn't be surprised if it took even longer to get all of those different people's maps to a rankable state, so calling bullshit on that.

2. Hollow Wings actually has real life obligations, and doesn't actually spend that much time mapping. Her maps do not tend to get ranked that fast:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/100348 - "Halozy - Sentimental Skyscraper" took 11 months to get ranked.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/153887 - "Akiyama Uni - Odoru Mizushibuki" took 10 months to get ranked.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/180138 - "Halozy - Genryuu Kaiko" took 10 months to get ranked.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/194910 - "ESTi - HELIX (Edit ver.)" took 17 MONTHS to get ranked.

Please refrain from posting again without actual facts to back up your claims.

in any case...

grats on qualify! <3

Mismagius

9,313 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-05-09T17:44:51+00:00

adding to the previous posts, if this map got ranked in any faster time, you'd bet people would be complaining 'shit like this getting speedranked? this system is fucked up....'

SFGrenade

29 posts

Joined November 2014

SFGrenade 2016-05-09T19:46:05+00:00

Blue Dragon wrote:
, you're not a skilled player

So..., apparently non-farmers aren't skilled players while famers are?

That's kind of strange to me.

BD's 6 topscores (sentence 3 lines up)

Kathex's 6 topscores (sentence 5 lines up)

pregnant_man

2,494 posts

Joined August 2012

pregnant_man 2016-05-09T20:06:52+00:00

what

Kathex wrote:
My last post suggesting changes in it was ignored and locked. I will not give up until improve the system.

Let's be honest, okay? You wasn't ignored, people just disagreed with you.

Can i ask you why do you think you're that guy who can fix/change/break/eat/drink/whatever verb the system and why on earth do you think yours point valid if 12094831290512380592375623906 people already said that you're wrong?

Sure don't give up! That's actually pretty cool intention, but can you firstly understand how the s y s t e m actually works? Also "Deeds, not words"

Hope we can return to the topic now

Last edited by pregnant_man 2016-05-09T20:42:11+00:00, edited 2 times in total.

Bursthammy

1,254 posts

Joined May 2015

Bursthammy 2016-05-09T20:17:58+00:00

SFGrenade wrote:
Blue Dragon wrote:
, you're not a skilled player
So..., apparently non-farmers aren't skilled players while famers are?

o wow... two tatoes and no title... those are some skillful maps...

delete this post, thanks

Mismagius

9,313 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-05-09T20:22:09+00:00

(edited my offensive post to get my point across, sry)

I don't think you're getting my point (besides, I don't play for pp, just look at my graph, I occasionally rank up so I don't fall off top 1000 and mostly play the game for fun). The fact is that this map is aimed towards really high-level players, which the original poster of the complaint doesn't seem to be one. Also, not really to brag, but I kinda have a 930x combo run of this which is almost a FC so... uh, I guess I'm skilled enough to play the map? I mean uh, I have literally no idea about what your post is talking about and what point does it prove other than mindlessly attacking my "top plays" which I don't really care at all. I'm not even sure why we're talking about this. The thread is about the map being ready or not for ranking, which I haven't seen a proper, logical reason as of why this shouldn't be ranked other than "there are better maps out there" which has been proven several times to be an ineffective argument.

Irreversible

osu! Alumni

4,316 posts

Joined December 2011

Irreversible 2016-05-09T20:29:08+00:00

Could we please try to get this conversation away from posts that do not actually contribute to the map? Thanks.

winber1

4,520 posts

Joined February 2010

winber1 2016-05-09T21:36:07+00:00

personally i think this map is trying a little too hard for the sake of aesthetics.

Of course SV can be used to make things look pretty, but this is kinda taking a little too far. Reading difficulty is something people enjoy, and its something I often enjoy, but it's usually not at the expense of using unexpected SV changes, but rather the pattern of notes themselves.

01:17:870 (1,2,1,1,2,1,2) - like I really dont' understand why this pattern needs to be like this, and that hitsounding does not help my cause when it comes to reading this either.

other times the flow is just extremely awkward when we go extremely fast to something much slower without something extremely noticeable in the music. like 01:29:327 (1) - used to trip me up all the time as i kept thinking it was fast, but i've since learned not to rush through it. it's also just the nature of this extremely linear flow as well, but even still there are ways not to make it as awkward in my personal opinion.

in general, i don't think it's terrible, but quite a few spots just feel a little meh, that's about it.

CelegaS

484 posts

Joined April 2012

CelegaS 2016-05-10T02:07:32+00:00

Wtf with EX EX design???
These 44 object at the same height from 00:44:704 to 00:55:558 is exaclty what i do when i map in ctb xD.
Next time map a ctb diff without impossible pattern and rank as std it will be fun

So here the real comment:
I think it's well mapped but these horizontal/vertical placement make all the time make me feel like it's not finished or you were too lazy to place them :/
Even if changement between horizontals or verticals are well mapped.
It feel like everybody can place these circles/sliders like that (like child speaking picasso's art they say everybody can do that). So you made art x).
I'm a noob in std so it's a review as spectator not as player.

RIP ctb's diff, why they were removed, i didn't find the answer from page 1 to 7 :/
So the only one reason to dq for me, it's to add these 2 ctb's gd and rank the whole std & ctb diff

Underforest

5,895 posts

Joined July 2015

Underforest 2016-05-10T05:20:21+00:00

EX EX in CTB mode is the best thing

Cherry Blossom

3,185 posts

Joined October 2011

Cherry Blossom 2016-05-10T11:24:41+00:00

uuuuh if only i was not busy with other things last time, i would push it forward, but nvm it's qualified now, gratz HW !

I don't know how to play this map properly, i have a bad aim atm or i've always had a bad aim.
People complain a lot because they don't see things like this ranked or they just don't know how to play, and others try to defend you and your map.
It looks really disappointing how things are going on, and i think for you it's just a game. But these people seem forgetting what a game is.
It looks sad to see people debating on circles and sliders wwww, or just people that think they are better at modding and playing and think they are right.

If it gets dq'ed, i'll be willing to review your map.

Bearizm

1,213 posts

Joined October 2013

Bearizm 2016-05-10T12:16:27+00:00

winber1 wrote:
in general, i don't think it's terrible, but quite a few spots just feel a little meh, that's about it.

well i think it's khbdsvlhdbavbds;vnsdovnodsnajdsnkillme just because everything looks the same and it has no real emphasis other than SVs.

seriously, helix was amazing because it truly is 'somethng different' and it did a good job of being different. this... is a such massive let down. I love how this kind of mapping can get qualified. the looser the standard the easier it should be to rank things

-Kanzaki

889 posts

Joined June 2012

-Kanzaki 2016-05-10T15:00:53+00:00

Bearizm wrote:
everything looks the same and it has no real emphasis other than SVs.

It is not really true please check it again there are spacing changes as for emphasis.( like : 01:32:945 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - )

Rockageek

125 posts

Joined June 2013

Rockageek 2016-05-10T19:05:23+00:00

Let's rank squartatrice again after this one, and don't forget big money pls.

WORSTPOLACKEU

511 posts

Joined May 2013

WORSTPOLACKEU 2016-05-12T11:38:31+00:00

Okay. Is this supposed to be some tutorial for "how to move left and right with different unpredictable speed" ?
If you rank this you might already rank Centipede because fuck, it's pretty.
Yes it's pretty, yes it's cool but it's not a fucking museum or something.
This doesn't play well nor can you properly read it ever if you're not GN- or Cookiezi.
I LOVE HW's maps, but now I decide to write something since it has gone too far, with Deconstruction Star being ranked which was already a bit too far now this gets qualified and hopefully(not) ranked soon.

The purpose of this map is... what. To make people go vertically with random spacings between notes and speedups which you can't really know will be faster or slower since everyone perceives it differently? It is supposed to be intuitive but all I see here is randomness apart from the extraordinary aesthetics.

00:36:412 (4) - Why is this slider even there? The echoes? That plays horribly already at the start.
00:35:659 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - This whole part already.
00:35:659 (1,2,3,4) - Why are those already so inconsitently spaced? It's the first 4 notes in the song and already weird to play. Then you have 00:41:086 (1,2,3,4) - which is the same but spaced that further away? Those happen in the whole map, inconsistencies, yes you can call them RHYTHM VARIATIONS or PATTERNS. No. This is too much of randomness and slacky job imo.
00:54:352 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - Cool but overkill, I don't know anyone who didn't misread this. The 1/6 is too faint and the design is too overlappy to play it properly.
01:03:246 (4,1) - This will never play well.
01:03:699 (3,4,1) - This will never, never play well.
01:04:000 (1) - Sound at the end of this slider changes yet no slider change, feels bad imo.
01:06:714 (1,2,3) - Where exactly did you find this speed in the song because I don't understand how you go from this little change in tone to that speed.
In that case, 01:08:824 (1,2,1,1) - This should be different? Why is the highest pitched note so slow? When you go 12891289 SV on the previous.
01:13:648 (1,2,3,4) - You go first at those to make the spacing less and less and then 01:14:251 (1,2,3,4) - both separated up and down this time which makes no sense at all ? Plays super unintuitionally also. Tones go the same way just lower or atleast emphasize 01:14:402 (2) - this beat, or put them accordingly to the song. Your map doesn't have to be Hollowed all the way through and weird.

01:15:458 (1,2,1,2) - Super retarded to play, can't see anything almost and it just plays horribly. Seriously try make that movement comfortably following all the sliders a bit so you don't get a sliderbreak or acc drop. Isn't this a thing that makes the quality of a map to actually make it comfortable to play not the other way around to some degrees?
01:16:362 (1,2,3) - lol again, I understand it's the design, but it is just not suitable for a ranked map.
01:18:623 (2,1) - Why?
01:22:091 (1) - The sound is longer than this slider, why stop? No point to stop there.
01:22:543 (2,3,4,5,6) - This pattern, I could live with if u put the 6 down beside the 5.
01:23:297 (1,2,1) - Why this change in spacing? The change in sound comes after the slider starts not before or on the start.
01:24:956 (2,3,1) - Meh
01:25:709 (1) - This should be two circles, would be so much better.
01:26:011 (1,2,3) - Won't mention those anymore lol.
01:31:589 (4,1,2,1) - Horrible to play.
01:35:206 (2,1) - ^
01:38:071 (1,2,1,2) - ^ Sound changes at 01:38:373 (1) - why no direction change or anything.
01:53:447 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - Best part in the whole map.
02:06:714 (1,2) - wtf?
02:38:674 (1,2,3,4) - How to acc those, srsly.
02:40:482 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Random spacing?

Thus said. This map is more of some artistic, aesthetic thing not an actualy playable RANKED map.
I understand HW is known for weird maps and this is one of them but let's face it, had anybody else made this it would never get past any BN because of many issues.
One of the most important issue I see is the inability to properly play this map and the almost impossible task of getting high accuracy on it. Even top players can't get good acc or combo because it's so easy to break and so many uncomfortable patterns exist in this map.

-Kanzaki

889 posts

Joined June 2012

-Kanzaki 2016-05-12T12:47:55+00:00

Well i think some are valid stuff from this mod but can you please be more specific on your mods, i mean like ''wtf?'', ''meh'', people cannot actually understand anything from those instead these can be taken offensive.

I checked your mod and let me show you how you should mod in one example :

01:03:699 (3,4,1) - This will never, never play well. (I am guessing here when you point this sliders i had to check them and try to understand why they dont play well.) I testplayed these and saw if i don't move my cursor to left i always get 100 on this slider and when checked on editor i saw this http://puu.sh/oP9Wq/dc4d20b2be.jpg Even if you click leftmost of the circle your cursor still will be out of the ball when its on the end of the slider and since these are 1/4 kick sliders you usually shouldn't be have to move your cursor on these slider and only clicking start of them should let you have 300 points. In this case ctrl + G ing 4 will do the job because you will move the cursor to the left that way anyway.

Bearizm

1,213 posts

Joined October 2013

Bearizm 2016-05-12T16:40:45+00:00

Why even bother @WORSTPOLACKEU

"my mapping style: make objective sense, and not make your sense."

Irreversible wrote:
I don't understand it myself; but for HW it probably made sense, so it's not my business (yet). Also, I'm not a pro player so I can't really judge as well. But overall an interesting attempt, so why not?

I honestly think you miss the most important point: Every mapper is different and has different tastes. You're just simply trying to make all maps fit your taste, but that simply won't work. this is true tho

from p/3443766

I know this is taken out of context but this may just apply here + it's 2 years ago so it may not be relevant anymore. I'm sorry Irre, this isn't an attack towards you (love your diff), but if this is the case for the QATs towards this map then rip in pepperonis. Not understanding is a dangerous thing because you won't be able to judge it. If these kinds of maps are in qualified section, it would be difficult for QATs to have judgement (that is objective) on it because HW's "sense" is 100% subjective (well in this case anyways) and since they can't really comment on it, no real criticism/input is being given towards HW. I'm kinda neutral about this going for ranked since I don't really care (but this is interesting I guess) but I'm a bit leaning towards "don't rank this" because people like it for a reason they don't understand aka "so oss can have map variety!" which is p much the same as I don't understand this map but I like it so it should get ranked. This could literally apply to all well constructed maps in pending.

Also, It's funny how strong "I know <insert bad map comments here>, but I really think they make sense and fits the song very well!" this argument is. You literally can't do anything about it. I have to admit I've gotten away with this once but it wasn't too bad in terms of how it plays so I don't feel too guilty of it (If You Can't Hang spaced zigzags 1/3 jumps). It's like an exploit lol it has been abused quite often by many. If you map this for art then you obviously should look up adobe products. I heard they have very powerful design tools!

WORSTPOLACKEU

511 posts

Joined May 2013

WORSTPOLACKEU 2016-05-12T20:35:38+00:00

I bother because if nobody makes a move, this will get ranked.

sahuang

2,294 posts

Joined December 2014

sahuang 2016-05-13T02:05:11+00:00

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
I bother because if nobody makes a move, this will get ranked.

I'd appreciate it if this map gets ranked.

Shiguma

476 posts

Joined May 2014

Shiguma 2016-05-13T03:55:05+00:00

Bearizm wrote:
If you map this for art then you obviously should look up adobe products. I heard they have very powerful design tools!

gud 1!!!!!

WORSTPOLACKEU

511 posts

Joined May 2013

WORSTPOLACKEU 2016-05-13T22:13:03+00:00

sahuang wrote:
WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
I bother because if nobody makes a move, this will get ranked.
I'd appreciate it if this map gets ranked.

I'd appreciate if Centipede got ranked.

Mismagius

9,313 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-05-13T22:28:49+00:00

but centipede isn't a map, it's just a visualization. that is a completely objective thing as there is absolutely no proof this map can be played properly by a human being

this is a beatmap that appeals both visually and has SUBJECTIVE playability. you're basically comparing a map you don't like playing (and that other people like playing) to a map that is completely unplayable and barely even considered a beatmap.

WORSTPOLACKEU

511 posts

Joined May 2013

WORSTPOLACKEU 2016-05-13T23:02:06+00:00

Blue Dragon wrote:
but centipede isn't a map, it's just a visualization. that is a completely objective thing as there is absolutely no proof this map can be played properly by a human being

this is a beatmap that appeals both visually and has SUBJECTIVE playability. you're basically comparing a map you don't like playing (and that other people like playing) to a map that is completely unplayable and barely even considered a beatmap.

It was a joke.
SUBJECTIVE playability. Well then..
I stated issues that are valid, why not adress them? I can rewrite the post and go more detailed but I thought someone woudl atleast look at it and maybe think this map isn't really polished ESPECIALLY considering how fragile it is.

Also I can compare another maps.
Veela - Mountains by Tochi.
Routing by Shiirn

Two examples!
If those maps have issues, this map definitely has it aswell. And I have stated some.

Mismagius

9,313 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-05-13T23:20:20+00:00

i don't know the tochi map but routing should definitely stay ranked qq

still i guess it's better to wait until a QAT deems the complaints worthy enough of an unrank i guess

Cherry Blossom

3,185 posts

Joined October 2011

Cherry Blossom 2016-05-14T00:09:07+00:00

I don't really think that we should compare any map because the song is different and each mapper has a different approach.
And the maps you're comparing have a different song, different genre, and different tempo and rhythm.
It's like comparing a good fisherman in river and a good fisherman in sea, their skills are almost the same, but they are in a different field and context and comparing them accurately will not really be possible.

Sorry if i look stupid by saying this ;w;

WORSTPOLACKEU

511 posts

Joined May 2013

WORSTPOLACKEU 2016-05-14T02:21:22+00:00

As much as I like HW's maps I just don't think her maps should be treated in any special way because we all know that if anybody unknown mapped this, it would've never been ranked.

This map has issues, one of maps' qualities is how well it can be played. This map basically makes you get 100s and sliderbreaks and forces you to aim in angles that are basically too fast and too sharp, so this quality is not found in this map.
Yes this map is amazing, truly is and it's a piece of art but should stay unranked or worked more upon and perfected.
It still plays uncomfortable in many places so I hope any QAT will be smart enough to DQ it instead of just skipping it because "omg it's HW, just let it be" or because he/she is scared of being shunned upon by the community. Atleast tell me WHY no DQ because of those issues, as someone mentioned the points are valid. if it's not clear enough, tell me BEFORE THE MAPS GETS RANKED and I'll make you a detailed post.

Also don't wanna be rude but as you said @Blue Dragon. This map is made for super high ranked players.
Why does a person that is not good enough to be able to play it and not be able to understand the issues in the map qualify it?
Shouldn't we let someone that is capable of playing this and atleast understanding in SOME WAY how this map works?

Not being offensive here to Monstrata (who I suppose qualified it?) but I don't think he is capable of either playing or understanding this map.
Even with his amazing mapping skill and experience, I still find the problem of him not being able to play the map and fully grasping what the problems are, you can't see everything in editor.

That's why in my opinion the qualify shouldn't even be VALID..
It's like buying a car when you don't have a license. You get sold on the pretty parts but you don't even testdrive the shit because you don't have a license.
See Monstrata doesn't have a "license" to play this map l3l, shit comparison maybe I am tired but you get my drift.

TL;DR: Map still has issues, don't know why someone that can't properly play and therefore judge this map gets to qualify it. Hope QAT's wake up.

Natsu

8,076 posts

Joined September 2012

Natsu 2016-05-14T03:00:19+00:00

When you have enought experience you can judge things that you can't play, ¨you can't play it, you can't judge it¨ is the worst argument that people can use, since the people who is capable of playing usually have 0 idea about mapping, I really hope people stop using those arguments, since makes no sense.
The feedback is already posted, some QAT will review it soon, just wait for it.

Mismagius

9,313 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-05-14T03:08:52+00:00

Natsu wrote:
When you have enought experience you can judge things that you can't play, ¨you can't play it, you can't judge it¨ is the worst argument that people can use, since the people who is capable of playing usually have 0 idea about mapping, I really hope people stop using those arguments, since makes no sense.
The feedback is already posted, some QAT will review it soon, just wait for it.

but I can play it and I have an idea about mapping and I still love the map, your argument doesn't make much sense either lol

Natsu

8,076 posts

Joined September 2012

Natsu 2016-05-14T03:09:45+00:00

Blue Dragon wrote:
Natsu wrote:
When you have enought experience you can judge things that you can't play, ¨you can't play it, you can't judge it¨ is the worst argument that people can use, since the people who is capable of playing usually have 0 idea about mapping, I really hope people stop using those arguments, since makes no sense.
The feedback is already posted, some QAT will review it soon, just wait for it.
but I can play it and I have an idea about mapping, your argument doesn't make sense either lol

¨USUALLY¨

Mismagius

9,313 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-05-14T03:47:12+00:00

oh woops I suck at reading

Cherry Blossom

3,185 posts

Joined October 2011

Cherry Blossom 2016-05-14T10:29:39+00:00

Having enough experience ? what does it mean ?
Excepted playing, experience comes with mapping, and not only with modding.
I'll take the example of this map. If you have not even tried mapping this kind of song, with the mapping style that "suits" the song, and that is a little close to HW's mapping style (not saying copying her) and beforeall, making something PLAYABLE, then you're not enough experienced to judge it.

To want => to be able to => to do.
And a majority of players are stuck in "to be able to" step, and experienced mappers in "to do" step.
Literally change your mind and try to understand someone else's map to be able to judge it according to your own experience at mapping is something just a few persons in this community are able to do. I'm not even able to, so, those who say they are "enough experienced", meditate.

Shiguma

476 posts

Joined May 2014

Shiguma 2016-05-14T12:02:11+00:00

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
As much as I like HW's maps I just don't think her maps should be treated in any special way because we all know that if anybody unknown mapped this, it would've never been ranked.

People always be saying this, but I don't think it's true. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/895331 How did this get ranked if it's not HW even though all comments are "lol HW?????" If you can map with sufficient quality and you can get the bubbles eventually you will be able to get your map ranked. Sure, it is harder as someone else, but I like to believe not because of favoritism but because of mapping experience.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
This map has issues, one of maps' qualities is how well it can be played. This map basically makes you get 100s and sliderbreaks and forces you to aim in angles that are basically too fast and too sharp, so this quality is not found in this map.
Yes this map is amazing, truly is and it's a piece of art but should stay unranked or worked more upon and perfected.

Show me where it "makes you get 100s". You will likely get 100's but the map isn't forcing you to get them. The map is vastly different than regularly ranked maps, so of course it will feel different to play as well. Jumps should be fast, no? Should we remove those from maps too?
Should Ekoro's Time Freeze not been ranked because 240 BPM high DS streams can't be played by anyone? I don't think many people will say that is bad mapset, and I don't think it ruined mapping either.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
It still plays uncomfortable in many places so I hope any QAT will be smart enough to DQ it instead of just skipping it because "omg it's HW, just let it be" or because he/she is scared of being shunned upon by the community. Atleast tell me WHY no DQ because of those issues, as someone mentioned the points are valid. if it's not clear enough, tell me BEFORE THE MAPS GETS RANKED and I'll make you a detailed post.

I don't think any QAT is scared of DQ'ing a map. Plenty of people are saying this map is bad, so wouldn't they also be scared of that part of the community? A map gets DQ when there are things that make it unrankable. If QAT says nothing, it means there are no problems? (Therefore they don't have to say anything, maybe)
Also, I don't think something playing uncomfortably should be guarantee that mapper should change that section. Mapper should choose what to deny and what to accept. HW's responses to mods is a different story, though.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
Also don't wanna be rude but as you said @Blue Dragon. This map is made for super high ranked players.
Why does a person that is not good enough to be able to play it and not be able to understand the issues in the map qualify it?
Shouldn't we let someone that is capable of playing this and atleast understanding in SOME WAY how this map works?

??? What does this even mean? You can't play it, therefore you know nothing about the map? What?

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
Not being offensive here to Monstrata (who I suppose qualified it?) but I don't think he is capable of either playing or understanding this map.
Even with his amazing mapping skill and experience, I still find the problem of him not being able to play the map and fully grasping what the problems are, you can't see everything in editor.

Let's make Cookiezi BN then, because he has Hidden S on EX EX difficulty, only 6 100 and 1 50 (that was at the end). Then Cookiezi can go ahead and Qualify all maps simply because he can play them.
Monstrata has veteran mapping experience. Seeing something in editor will tell him a lot, because he know's how maps work. This part of your post is complete BS imo.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
That's why in my opinion the qualify shouldn't even be VALID..
It's like buying a car when you don't have a license. You get sold on the pretty parts but you don't even testdrive the shit because you don't have a license.
See Monstrata doesn't have a "license" to play this map l3l, shit comparison maybe I am tired but you get my drift.

I always hated analogies. But change your analogy to "Monstrata is girlfriend for car fanatic, girl has no license. She knows about how cars work, even without testdriving, and picks what most would consider weird car for boyfriend. Boyfriend loves the car, but still continues to buy his muscle cars. He just also has gf present car." (Kill analogies in fire pls)

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
TL;DR: Map still has issues, don't know why someone that can't properly play and therefore judge this map gets to qualify it. Hope QAT's wake up.

TL;DR: Cookiezi should become QAT because he has Hidden S on this map, issues with map are going to exist for every map, even ranked maps.

Last edited by Shiguma 2016-05-14T12:04:51+00:00, edited 2 times in total.

WORSTPOLACKEU

511 posts

Joined May 2013

WORSTPOLACKEU 2016-05-14T12:03:00+00:00

Natsu wrote:
When you have enought experience you can judge things that you can't play, ¨you can't play it, you can't judge it¨ is the worst argument that people can use, since the people who is capable of playing usually have 0 idea about mapping, I really hope people stop using those arguments, since makes no sense.
The feedback is already posted, some QAT will review it soon, just wait for it.

Yeah waiting for it!

Also I know the argument doesn't apply to MOST cases but I think the situation is different here, it's not a normal map that people can just understand by only watching it since it's so unique and therefore you should be able to play this map to try and fully understand it. There is a reason why top players are asked for testplays, because they might spot things a mapper who isn't able to play it wouldn't and because you want to get someone else's perspective and that person might see mistakes you just don't see yourself.

WORSTPOLACKEU

511 posts

Joined May 2013

WORSTPOLACKEU 2016-05-14T12:19:02+00:00

Shiguma wrote:
WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
As much as I like HW's maps I just don't think her maps should be treated in any special way because we all know that if anybody unknown mapped this, it would've never been ranked.
People always be saying this, but I don't think it's true. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/895331 How did this get ranked if it's not HW even though all comments are "lol HW?????" If you can map with sufficient quality and you can get the bubbles eventually you will be able to get your map ranked. Sure, it is harder as someone else, but I like to believe not because of favoritism but because of mapping experience.Yeah you might be right but I've seen cases where people didn't get proper maps ranked because of literally nothing.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
This map has issues, one of maps' qualities is how well it can be played. This map basically makes you get 100s and sliderbreaks and forces you to aim in angles that are basically too fast and too sharp, so this quality is not found in this map.
Yes this map is amazing, truly is and it's a piece of art but should stay unranked or worked more upon and perfected.
Show me where it "makes you get 100s". You will likely get 100's but the map isn't forcing you to get them. The map is vastly different than regularly ranked maps, so of course it will feel different to play as well. Jumps should be fast, no? Should we remove those from maps too?Sorry to say but you are not capable of playing this map well. You are mentioning jumps, you just proved that you have no idea what you are talking about since jumps are not even the problem here.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
It still plays uncomfortable in many places so I hope any QAT will be smart enough to DQ it instead of just skipping it because "omg it's HW, just let it be" or because he/she is scared of being shunned upon by the community. Atleast tell me WHY no DQ because of those issues, as someone mentioned the points are valid. if it's not clear enough, tell me BEFORE THE MAPS GETS RANKED and I'll make you a detailed post.
I don't think any QAT is scared of DQ'ing a map. Plenty of people are saying this map is bad, so wouldn't they also be scared of that part of the community? A map gets DQ when there are things that make it unrankable. If QAT says nothing, it means there are no problems? (Therefore they don't have to say anything, maybe)
Also, I don't think something playing uncomfortably should be guarantee that mapper should change that section. Mapper should choose what to deny and what to accept. HW's responses to mods is a different story, though.There have been situations where maps that should be worked on weren't worked on and just let go because of different reasons and QAT's have been using QAT account to DQ maps because they didn't want to show their name, so it tilts towards being afraid atleast a bit doesn't it? And what if they DQ a map every person that has no idea about mapping loves? You can only imagine. So no. IF QAT says nothing it might also be that they didn't see or missed it. Mappers should choose what to deny and accept? Alright, true but that doesn't make it right all the time and you can't just deny mods and say "my maps objective sense not YOUR sense" to everything.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
Also don't wanna be rude but as you said @Blue Dragon. This map is made for super high ranked players.
Why does a person that is not good enough to be able to play it and not be able to understand the issues in the map qualify it?
Shouldn't we let someone that is capable of playing this and atleast understanding in SOME WAY how this map works?
??? What does this even mean? You can't play it, therefore you know nothing about the map? What?Yes, something you wouldn't understand maybe. This argument fits this situation where the map is at such an advanced level you can't understand how it plays by just looking at it in the editor. Why do mappers ask top players for testplays? Also I didn't say you know NOTHING bout the map in that case, you just don't understand it fully and can miss a lot of mistakes by not playing it, I know it since it happens to me and other mappers I know.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
Not being offensive here to Monstrata (who I suppose qualified it?) but I don't think he is capable of either playing or understanding this map.
Even with his amazing mapping skill and experience, I still find the problem of him not being able to play the map and fully grasping what the problems are, you can't see everything in editor.
Let's make Cookiezi BN then, because he has Hidden S on EX EX difficulty, only 6 100 and 1 50 (that was at the end). Then Cookiezi can go ahead and Qualify all maps simply because he can play them.
Monstrata has veteran mapping experience. Seeing something in editor will tell him a lot, because he know's how maps work. This part of your post is complete BS imo.Cookiezi is not good mapper enough at all but his input about this map would probably bring something, yet the best is when someone can play this map and is a good mapper like let's say BD. Yes Monstrata has veteran mapping experience but as I mentioned before, I don't believe this map can be judged properly without being able to play it at some level. BS.. I am just saying what I think and what I believe. My experience tells me only looking at editor can't get you the whole picture.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
That's why in my opinion the qualify shouldn't even be VALID..
It's like buying a car when you don't have a license. You get sold on the pretty parts but you don't even testdrive the shit because you don't have a license.
See Monstrata doesn't have a "license" to play this map l3l, shit comparison maybe I am tired but you get my drift.
I always hated analogies. But change your analogy to "Monstrata is girlfriend for car fanatic, girl has no license. She knows about how cars work, even without testdriving, and picks what most would consider weird car for boyfriend. Boyfriend loves the car, but still continues to buy his muscle cars. He just also has gf present car." (Kill analogies in fire pls)didn't get this one

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
TL;DR: Map still has issues, don't know why someone that can't properly play and therefore judge this map gets to qualify it. Hope QAT's wake up.
TL;DR: Cookiezi should become QAT because he has Hidden S on this map, issues with map are going to exist for every map, even ranked maps.

You clearly missed the whole point. Yes issues are gonna exist but when it lowers the quality of the map by basically making it impossible to NOT get 100s and having weird angles that force you to go with a long fast slider and then BACK too fast to react since kicksliders aren't supposed to be followed as far as few of those here

Shiguma

476 posts

Joined May 2014

Shiguma 2016-05-14T12:32:41+00:00

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
Sorry to say but you are not capable of playing this map well. You are mentioning jumps, you just proved that you have no idea what you are talking about since jumps are not even the problem here.

Well it was just example, not talking about that difficulty, just jumps in general. However, you are 100% correct that can't play this map well, it's obvious once you go to my profile lol

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
There have been situations where maps that should be worked on weren't worked on and just let go because of different reasons and QAT's have been using QAT account to DQ maps because they didn't want to show their name, so it tilts towards being afraid atleast a bit doesn't it? And what if they DQ a map every person that has no idea about mapping loves? You can only imagine. So no. IF QAT says nothing it might also be that they didn't see or missed it. Mappers should choose what to deny and accept? Alright, true but that doesn't make it right all the time and you can't just deny mods and say "my maps objective sense not YOUR sense" to everything.

I didn't know QAT did that, you have a point there then. You might be right about denying mods too, I wish HW would give better explanations sometimes.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
Cookiezi is not good mapper enough at all but his input about this map would probably bring something, yet the best is when someone can play this map and is a good mapper like let's say BD. Yes Monstrata has veteran mapping experience but as I mentioned before, I don't believe this map can be judged properly without being able to play it at some level. BS.. I am just saying what I think and what I believe. My experience tells me only looking at editor can't get you the whole picture.

Didn't BD post in this somewhere? I thought he liked it (Might be complete bs I just said, not sure)

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
didn't get this one

This is just personal dislike to analogies, sorry.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
You clearly missed the whole point. Yes issues are gonna exist but when it lowers the quality of the map by basically making it impossible to NOT get 100s and having weird angles that force you to go with a long fast slider and then BACK too fast to react since kicksliders aren't supposed to be followed as far as few of those here

Probably. I'm just a big dummy after all. But with practice, still not possible to do those sliders?

WORSTPOLACKEU

511 posts

Joined May 2013

WORSTPOLACKEU 2016-05-14T12:43:42+00:00

Even with practice, many of those sliders are almost impossible to play and not get 100s at, not even talking about the long ones, the kicksliders that are really fast and force you to go to a direction really fast before jumping to next note in really uncomfortable places.

Leader

osu! Alumni

1,849 posts

Joined January 2011

Leader 2016-05-14T12:49:32+00:00

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
Also I know the argument doesn't apply to MOST cases but I think the situation is different here, it's not a normal map that people can just understand by only watching it since it's so unique and therefore you should be able to play this map to try and fully understand it. There is a reason why top players are asked for testplays, because they might spot things a mapper who isn't able to play it wouldn't and because you want to get someone else's perspective and that person might see mistakes you just don't see yourself.

Actually, it's the opposite. In most cases top players can read almost everything, even the weirdest and unplayable pattern you may ever find in a map, and this is why you shouldn't rely on them that much when it comes to playability or whatever else.

WORSTPOLACKEU

511 posts

Joined May 2013

WORSTPOLACKEU 2016-05-14T13:04:52+00:00

Leader wrote:
WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
Also I know the argument doesn't apply to MOST cases but I think the situation is different here, it's not a normal map that people can just understand by only watching it since it's so unique and therefore you should be able to play this map to try and fully understand it. There is a reason why top players are asked for testplays, because they might spot things a mapper who isn't able to play it wouldn't and because you want to get someone else's perspective and that person might see mistakes you just don't see yourself.
Actually, it's the opposite. In most cases top players can read almost everything, even the weirdest and unplayable pattern you may ever find in a map, and this is why you shouldn't rely on them that much when it comes to playability or whatever else.

Yeah but a top player with mapping knowledge is to be trusted atleast a bit right.
Also it's not the opposite. You can flip it any way you want, I still think being able to play a map makes you understand it better, especially in this case.

Kyouren

5,659 posts

Joined October 2012

Kyouren 2016-05-14T16:21:17+00:00

If you remove CLSW & examination CTB diff from your mapset but why you adding CLSW & examination to tags?

Mismagius

9,313 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-05-14T17:02:38+00:00

Shiguma wrote:
WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
Cookiezi is not good mapper enough at all but his input about this map would probably bring something, yet the best is when someone can play this map and is a good mapper like let's say BD. Yes Monstrata has veteran mapping experience but as I mentioned before, I don't believe this map can be judged properly without being able to play it at some level. BS.. I am just saying what I think and what I believe. My experience tells me only looking at editor can't get you the whole picture.
Didn't BD post in this somewhere? I thought he liked it (Might be complete bs I just said, not sure)

Yeah, I've been supporting the ranking of this map for the past 5 pages or so :p

Kathex

200 posts

Joined September 2014

Kathex 2016-05-14T17:13:32+00:00

WORSTPOLACKEU = forget this map, they dont DQ maps by random people say about it, only if u is a "notorious" ppl at community u can contest staff.

BLUE DRAGON = Para de ser puxa saco cara, fica apoiando os caras só pq são os famosinhos do jogo? toma vergonha na cara, vc sabe mto bem que se qualquer outro fizesse um mapa tipo esse, nunca ia ser rankeado, não em 2016.

Hollow Wings= what are your maps focus? Playability certainly not. No one make a map focusing quality with doubtful elements. You want make maps with "objective sense", then define this to "contest the usual". My intention is not say its a bad thing, but contest why so few ppl like you can get that things ranked. I want more ppl can rank things unusual like that.

BN circlejerking= I never would contest a map like this if it were done by a stranger. But BN circlejerking need to end, then i complain to every doubtful map they rank

And GM's =STOP DELETING AND MODIFYNG FORUM MENSAGES! we not are being non sense, we are free to complain our hurts. Do you think I like to be here talking about this crap? NO! Anyway we need someone able to change the bad things that happen in this game.

CelegaS

484 posts

Joined April 2012

CelegaS 2016-05-14T20:35:52+00:00

DQ and qualify with ctb diff.

Underforest

5,895 posts

Joined July 2015

Underforest 2016-05-14T20:56:04+00:00

Kathex wrote:
STOP DELETING AND MODIFYNG FORUM MENSAGES! we not are being non sense, we are free to complain our hurts. Do you think I like to be here talking about this crap? NO! Anyway we need someone able to change the bad things that happen in this game.

They can't. Because this thread is getting more uncontrolled.

Mismagius

9,313 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-05-14T21:56:00+00:00

Kathex wrote:
BLUE DRAGON = Para de ser puxa saco cara, fica apoiando os caras só pq são os famosinhos do jogo? toma vergonha na cara, vc sabe mto bem que se qualquer outro fizesse um mapa tipo esse, nunca ia ser rankeado, não em 2016.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/388036 Esse mapa já foi mencionado nessa thread algumas vezes como exemplo de mapa estilo HW feito por UM MAPPER INICIANTE (esse é o primeiro mapa do cara, que foi atrás de todo o apoio possível, perguntou pra muita gente como o mapa podia ser melhor). Ele foi ATRÁS pra conseguir seu mapa ranked, não ficou chorando que o sistema foi injusto e olha só, ele conseguiu. Legal, né?

Você quer MESMO me chamar de puxa saco? Sendo que fui EU quem ajudei a Hollow Wings quando ela começou a mapear no jogo? Quando fui EU que dei os primeiros passos pra ela aprender a mapear, agora sou EU que sou "puxa saco de famosinho"? Eu sou mais famoso que você, a HW, e toda a sua família juntos véi. Ficar se revoltando contra "famosinho" é pior ainda do que o que você tá me acusando, porque só mostra como você não tem força pra usar seus próprios argumentos, e seu único argumento é a "reclamação de que as coisas não estão certas". Você tem 19 anos na cara, age como gente e saiba argumentar sem insultar, você trouxe argumentos e eles foram refutados, agora você parte pra ataque pessoal e acha que ainda quer ter razão. Eu já falei pra você ir criar um tópico no Development ou Ranking Criteria se quiser REALMENTE ajudar e não só ficar choramingando como uma criancinha, mas não, você só tá aqui pra causar problema, só tá aqui pra reclamar, seu intuito definitivamente não é ajudar e sim só atrapalhar e mostrar pra todo mundo que está "certo".

Yuii-

2,501 posts

Joined July 2013

Yuii- 2016-05-14T22:39:39+00:00

KittyAdventure wrote:
If you remove CLSW & examination CTB diff from your mapset but why you adding CLSW & examination to tags?

Told her to remove both nicks, she said "nope".
Literally the SAME case happened with her previous mapset where "Scorpiour" was added even though his diff was removed.

But hey, hey, GG!

Last edited by Yuii- 2016-05-15T02:00:09+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

hyouri

390 posts

Joined June 2012

hyouri 2016-05-15T01:04:21+00:00

Just because you're a top player with mapping knowledge doesn't mean your opinion matters even slightly more than anyone else here. There are many mappers who map way above their skill level and still have way better playing & flow knowledge than most. The way you insult this map with ignorance is only just weak. Your modding (p/5121844) is nothing but salt and comments of you replaying where you missread.

This map wasn't made for you, it was made for the game and anyone able to play it and enjoy it. If you can't play it and/or don't enjoy it, then why bother? One second you're complaing about "pp destroys mapping" next you're complaining about "non-pp maps destroys mapping"? If mapping today is such a problem, why don't make some maps and rank them to show us how it's done? Become a BN, QAT or something. Instead of deciding what's playable and not in your sense (As if we all share your view).

So yeah, when modding please try to find errors, bugs etc. And try to see what the mapper wants (which is hard considering it's HW), rather than writing down what's playable/readable TO YOU and what isn't.

^Basic modding knowledge 101, but seems like you don't know about

oh yeah, quoting WORSTPOLACKEU

-Kanzaki

889 posts

Joined June 2012

-Kanzaki 2016-05-15T05:03:16+00:00

Well the mod that worstpolackeu wrote generally was not valid stuff but i don't know i believe kick sliders are valid as i mentioned with a screenshot too. And the solution was extremely simple without effecting the style of the map. Yet nobody gave an discuss about it or answer to it nor bn nor owner. So what now we arent suppose to answer the mods when the map in qualified section?

Cherry Blossom

3,185 posts

Joined October 2011

Cherry Blossom 2016-05-15T09:42:31+00:00

*sigh*
This will get ranked soon, let's chill a bit.

SFGrenade

29 posts

Joined November 2014

SFGrenade 2016-05-15T13:35:05+00:00

Let's get to my "mod":

First of (and maybe the rest of this post) there are way to much sv changes in this map (EX EX).
From 77267ms onward (none before this i think), we have 28 times, where in the following second 2 more sv changes appear (that means 3 changes in a single second).
I think that's a bit too much. Or maybe you wanted to map for the graveyard (nothing against you, just against the map), i don't know. For me this doesn't make any kind of sense.
I know, that i'm not good enough to pass this map (i didn't even played it), but from (many) other maps (e.g. The Quick Brown Fox - The Big Black std diff) i know that you can make a very good map with only one sv (no sv change).
I hope, that you take this "mod" seriously and don't say: "I can make what" without an argument why you make it.
Also please nothing like "You aren't popular, just 'cause your rank is #51k" and ignore the person as i am.

SV Changes and Times

2 timing points aren't listed, because no sv change.
Listed as: Time in sec, SV multiplier:
35.659, 0.50
45.910, 0.75
55.558, 0.50
60.382, 0.75
61.588, 1.25
62.794, 1.50
65.206, 0.50
65.960, 1.00
66.412, 0.50
66.714, 2.00
67.618, 0.50
68.071, 1.00
68.824, 0.50
69.277, 1.00
69.427, 0.50
70.633, 1.00
71.236, 0.50
71.839, 2.00
72.442, 1.00
72.744, 0.50
73.045, 1.00
74.854, 0.50
75.458, 1.00
76.061, 0.50
76.362, 2.00
77.267, 0.50
77.870, 1.00
78.171, 0.50
78.473, 1.00
79.076, 2.00
79.377, 0.50
79.679, 1.00
81.488, 0.50
82.091, 1.00
83.297, 0.50
84.503, 1.00
85.257, 1.50
86.010, 2.00
86.915, 1.00
87.518, 1.50
88.121, 1.00
88.573, 2.00
88.724, 1.50
89.327, 1.00
89.930, 1.50
90.533, 1.00
91.136, 2.00
91.739, 1.50
92.342, 1.00
94.754, 1.50
95.659, 2.00
96.563, 1.00
97.166, 1.50
97.769, 1.00
98.071, 1.50
98.372, 2.00
98.674, 1.00
98.975, 1.50
99.578, 1.00
101.387, 1.50
102.593, 1.00
103.196, 0.50
113.447, 1.00
123.096, 0.50
132.744, 0.75
142.392, 1.50
142.995, 0.75
144.804, 1.50
145.407, 0.75
147.216, 1.50
147.819, 0.75
149.628, 1.50
150.231, 0.75
152.040, 0.50
152.794, 1.00
153.246, 0.50
153.548, 2.00
154.452, 0.50
155.055, 1.00
155.659, 0.50
156.111, 1.00
156.262, 0.50
157.468, 1.00
158.071, 0.50
158.674, 2.00
159.277, 1.00
159.578, 0.50
159.880, 1.00
161.689, 0.50
162.292, 1.00
162.895, 0.50
163.196, 2.00
164.327, 1.50
164.553, 1.00
164.779, 0.50
165.005, 1.50
165.307, 1.00
165.910, 2.00
166.211, 0.50
166.513, 1.00
168.322, 0.50
168.925, 1.00
171.337, 0.50
179.025, 1.00
179.478, 1.50
179.930, 2.00
180.382, 0.25

That makes 107 sv changes in 144.723s (1 change every ~1.353sec overall).

To smallboat, Enjoy, liangv587, Hollow Wings(Extra Diff), fanzhen0019, Kawaiwkyik and Irreversible & EvilElvis:
Your Kiai time isn't in sync with the EX EX one. It would be better if every map of the mapset has the same kiai time.

SFGrenade

Bursthammy

1,254 posts

Joined May 2015

Bursthammy 2016-05-15T16:13:20+00:00

R A N K

Kurokami

osu! Alumni

4,024 posts

Joined February 2010

Kurokami 2016-05-15T23:20:30+00:00

Solve the issues brought up about the EX EX difficulty. I think there is a lot to discuss before this could be moved back.

rostld

osu!catch Champion

220 posts

Joined May 2014

rostld 2016-05-15T23:21:20+00:00

no

Mismagius

9,313 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-05-15T23:52:00+00:00

Kurokami wrote:
Solve the issues brought up about the EX EX difficulty. I think there is a lot to discuss before this could be moved back.

Which issues exactly are making the map unrankable as it is? If you're not even going to take a look at the map itself then there surely is something wrong here. Many of the 'errors' have been already discussed on the thread so... I don't get it.

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Shiirn 2016-05-15T23:59:27+00:00

Kurokami wrote:
Solve the issues brought up about the EX EX difficulty. I think there is a lot to discuss before this could be moved back.

what the fuck is your problem, you're a ctb qat

This map is horrible, in my opinion. I heavily disagree with many of the choices made in this map, up to and including EX EX. I hate the fact that someone made a large grid snap linear box map with weird ass sliders and velocity fuckery. But regardless of my opinion,

It stands to fact that there is nothing directly unrankable about EX EX.

it follows every ranking criteria rule and is, as the entire week in qualification shows, is quite possible to FC consistently. So I don't know why people are bitching about its playability or whatever the fuck.

Last edited by Shiirn 2016-05-16T00:00:10+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

fieryrage

Former osu! Champion: 2023

1,404 posts

Joined November 2013

fieryrage 2016-05-15T23:59:32+00:00

ffs

_handholding

3,109 posts

Joined April 2014

_handholding 2016-05-16T00:00:41+00:00

Kurokami wrote:
Solve the issues brought up about the EX EX difficulty. I think there is a lot to discuss before this could be moved back.

What exactly are the issues? You didnt even say anything as to why it was DQ'd

PS this isnt a ctb diff zzzzzzz

I Must Decrease

913 posts

Joined June 2013

I Must Decrease 2016-05-16T00:01:29+00:00

Shiirn wrote:
It stands to fact that there is nothing directly unrankable about EX EX.

do you know how easy it is for something to be "rankable" shiirn...?

how is this a point, the ranking criteria is so bare bones all that matters is that the set is complete, and notes are timed correctly.

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Shiirn 2016-05-16T00:03:33+00:00

It's about as easy to make a rankable map as it is to make My Hero.

The point is that if someone wants to get "garbage" ranked, and they are able to have enough people willing to support them to rank it, who are you to say your opinions are more valid than everyone else's? Seriously, shitty.

Kurokami

osu! Alumni

4,024 posts

Joined February 2010

Kurokami 2016-05-16T00:04:51+00:00

I did not find any answer to the mentioned issues brought up in p/5121844. Moreover, if you guys can agree that this mapset is good to go as it is and there is no need further improvement, despite of the conversation on the 17th and 18th page, it will be just moved back to the qualified section.

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Shiirn 2016-05-16T00:07:11+00:00

I figured you would have liked EX EX since it's basically ctb map

it lasted almost the full week only for you to take it down at the last minute, that's a pretty dick move considering that all of the STD QAT are, i assure you, totally aware that TSUBAKI is ranked, because i know for sure they get spammed by people going OMG ITS RANKED DO SOMETHING *flail*

Last edited by Shiirn 2016-05-16T00:09:12+00:00, edited 2 times in total.

WORSTPOLACKEU

511 posts

Joined May 2013

WORSTPOLACKEU 2016-05-16T00:08:35+00:00

I'll raise more issues tomorrow, as detailed as I can without writing "meh".
I understand some might not be actual "issues" but if this is getting ranked it better be as good as it gets.

JappyBabes

666 posts

Joined February 2011

JappyBabes 2016-05-16T00:08:40+00:00

Loctav wrote:
Unless the concept behind a beatmap is fundamentally flawed from the start, modding should aim to improve the map in it’s current design - not force your own style upon it.

2 weeks with no response from QAT addressing the argument whether the concept is flawed or not. That's all. If standard QATs say it's fine for EX EX to go through ranking then that is that.

@ people like Cherry Blossom that post "how about you post something constructive like a mod?" - see that quote right above. Would benefit you to read the full CoC as well.
@ people that call this mapping creative - there's nothing creative about taking an idea (not even a new idea in this case) and making that your map in its entirety. < happens to be a lot of HW maps btw.

I Must Decrease

913 posts

Joined June 2013

I Must Decrease 2016-05-16T00:09:26+00:00

Shiirn wrote:
It's about as easy to make a rankable map as it is to make My Hero.

The point is that if someone wants to get "garbage" ranked, and they are able to have enough people willing to support them to rank it, who are you to say your opinions are more valid than everyone else's? Seriously, shitty.

https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Ranking_Criteria

The ranking criteria simply discusses OBJECTIVE things such as timing and metadata and what not. Literally bringing up the point that it's "rankable" as a reason for why it shouldn't be DQ'd is absurd to me. The purpose of the qualified period is to make the mapset better, not a third check of metadata.

Also nice pointless insults. Perhaps you can grow up a bit?

Mismagius

9,313 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-05-16T00:20:16+00:00

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
00:36:412 (4) - Why is this slider even there? The echoes? That plays horribly already at the start. Follows the back melody. Not really hard to notice.
00:35:659 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - This whole part already. No explanation is given other than "this is bad", so the argument is completely invalid if you cannot give proper reasoning.
00:35:659 (1,2,3,4) - Why are those already so inconsitently spaced? It's the first 4 notes in the song and already weird to play. Then you have 00:41:086 (1,2,3,4) - which is the same but spaced that further away? Those happen in the whole map, inconsistencies, yes you can call them RHYTHM VARIATIONS or PATTERNS. No. This is too much of randomness and slacky job imo. pretty sure it's variation in this case which isn't necessairly bad. I'd rather have a map that has variation and inconsistent than having a consistent boring map.
00:54:352 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - Cool but overkill, I don't know anyone who didn't misread this. The 1/6 is too faint and the design is too overlappy to play it properly. It's pretty logical to play this, the pattern is clear enough and there aren't sudden changes in the way you click these. They are well positioned as well, in a way that it can be mostly readable by the player.
01:03:246 (4,1) - This will never play well. You don't even have to hold the slider to the left here to get a 300. If this is an issue, then an easy way to fix this would be making the SV slower in this part, but that would probably make it harder to read and break the whole purpose of the pattern-making in the map, so nope.
01:03:699 (3,4,1) - This will never, never play well. Same as ^.
01:04:000 (1) - Sound at the end of this slider changes yet no slider change, feels bad imo. I don't see how it would be possible to make the slider change...? The whole difficulty aside from the ending sliders is based on straight sliders, did you forget which map you're looking at or are you just trying to find ridiculous reasons that don't even make sense?
01:06:714 (1,2,3) - Where exactly did you find this speed in the song because I don't understand how you go from this little change in tone to that speed.
In that case, 01:08:824 (1,2,1,1) - This should be different? Why is the highest pitched note so slow? When you go 12891289 SV on the previous. It's a relative change to the pitch of the notes before. The notes before the first case have a much lower pitch than the ones in the second case, making the change much more noticeable in the first case, thus justifying the crazy slider speed there.
01:13:648 (1,2,3,4) - You go first at those to make the spacing less and less and then 01:14:251 (1,2,3,4) - both separated up and down this time which makes no sense at all ? Plays super unintuitionally also. Tones go the same way just lower or atleast emphasize 01:14:402 (2) - this beat, or put them accordingly to the song. Your map doesn't have to be Hollowed all the way through and weird. If anything, I'd just ctrl+g (2,4) here. Seems valid enough, but certainly not something unrankable.

01:15:458 (1,2,1,2) - Super retarded to play, can't see anything almost and it just plays horribly. Seriously try make that movement comfortably following all the sliders a bit so you don't get a sliderbreak or acc drop. Isn't this a thing that makes the quality of a map to actually make it comfortable to play not the other way around to some degrees? You don't even have to hold the sliders there... Just click them as notes, that's the entire point of the whole thing, what the actual fuck.
01:16:362 (1,2,3) - lol again, I understand it's the design, but it is just not suitable for a ranked map. Same as before.
01:18:623 (2,1) - Why? Same as 01:15.
01:22:091 (1) - The sound is longer than this slider, why stop? No point to stop there. No it isn't? Listen to the song, there is a 1/2 note there justifying the end of the slider.
01:22:543 (2,3,4,5,6) - This pattern, I could live with if u put the 6 down beside the 5. Seems valid, but again, not valid enough for an unrank. Also, that'd probably mean there would be a change to the entire following pattern, seems way too much effort for something extremely unnecessary.
01:23:297 (1,2,1) - Why this change in spacing? The change in sound comes after the slider starts not before or on the start. what the fuck this is a stack
01:24:956 (2,3,1) - Meh not even gonna answer this
01:25:709 (1) - This should be two circles, would be so much better. Would play awfully with the next slider.
01:26:011 (1,2,3) - Won't mention those anymore lol.
01:31:589 (4,1,2,1) - Horrible to play. Follows the song well enough, doesn't seem that hard to play. It's basically the same concept as a back-and-forth.
01:35:206 (2,1) - ^
01:38:071 (1,2,1,2) - ^ Sound changes at 01:38:373 (1) - why no direction change or anything. because THAT would play horribly.
01:53:447 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - Best part in the whole map.
02:06:714 (1,2) - wtf? ?
02:38:674 (1,2,3,4) - How to acc those, srsly. Yeah, accuracy is definitely a great reason to unrank a beatmap.
02:40:482 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Random spacing? If anything, I'd place 02:40:784 (3) - at 336,32. There's no need for any other change in this pattern.

Thus said. This map is more of some artistic, aesthetic thing not an actualy playable RANKED map.
I understand HW is known for weird maps and this is one of them but let's face it, had anybody else made this it would never get past any BN because of many issues.
One of the most important issue I see is the inability to properly play this map and the almost impossible task of getting high accuracy on it. Even top players can't get good acc or combo because it's so easy to break and so many uncomfortable patterns exist in this map.

Ocelot - TSUBAKI

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Ocelot - TSUBAKI

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