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Miki Sayaka vs. Miki Sayaka (fw. Miki Sayaka) - squartatrice

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Total Posts
395
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Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare
Other than the extreme Slider velocities and visually messy patterns, which aren't even that bad, what actually bothers me about this map is the rhythms on some parts, which seem to be completely off at some points with little to no relation to music. If those things woulda been improved, i feel like the map would feel much better.

Examples would be
00:38:308 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - which is a 7 circle stream mapped on a 5 1/4s pattern
01:19:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Where the slider rhythms are not matching the actual beats in the music
01:19:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - where there's no note to emphasize the beat in the music
01:41:641 (21,22,23) - which i dont understand at all, what sound is (22) supposed to follow
01:42:724 (2) - which is entirely offbeat
02:00:808 (3) - which is a 1/2 slider mapped on a 1/4 triple

I know this may be late since it's requalified already, but please consider it in case it gets dq'd again.


And now, back to spectator mode.
_index
336 posts
Joined January 2011
_index

Sieg wrote:

Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445

Zare wrote:

Examples would be
00:38:308 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - which is a 7 circle stream mapped on a 5 1/4s pattern
Imagine a new combo on the 5, so 1234 - 123
The 123 is based off of the repeating noise, as followed by the other stacked streams later.
12341 is the piano.
The 5 is a combination of both parts of the music, that's why it looks confusing.

01:19:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Where the slider rhythms are not matching the actual beats in the music
01:19:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - where there's no note to emphasize the beat in the music
Mimicking synth, followed up by sliders going with the synth later.
Synth dropped at 01:20:390 - , but strong beat at 01:20:474 - , then synth picks back up at 01:20:640 -
So that's why it's all sliders, every start is a strong beat.

01:41:641 (21,22,23) - which i dont understand at all, what sound is (22) supposed to follow
The synth reaching its peak pitch. 3/4 rhythm, notice starts of 21, 22, and 23 are 3/4 apart.

01:42:724 (2) - which is entirely offbeat
This one could actually be a mistake, perhaps a solution would be http://puu.sh/hqGG5/7881a3218b.jpg
The circlestream jump is definitely intentional for emphasis but it might not be in the right place.
02:00:808 (3) - which is a 1/2 slider mapped on a 1/4 triple
Hear the strings in the background? It's switched to that.
02:00:307 - Marks a switch to a calmer focus, as noted in the Another where it's literally a drain section.


Anyway yeah, the 01:42:724 is definitely good to point out.


The map is probably going to get unqualified for some form of reason, but I'd like to ask that if it DOES get unqualified, that it gets unqualified with good, relevant reasons. There's nothing worse than a post that says "this sucks, remap it because I don't understand it".
joolomasta
63 posts
Joined October 2013
joolomasta
I think that the recent unqualifications have shown us that the QATs are forcing mappers to use a certain style of mapping in order to get their maps ranked. Everything that isn't mapped to the same mold as most maps nowadays do, get DQd several times before maybe getting ranked. I know, the popular mapping style that's being enforced is easy to read, mostly fun to play and gives a lot of pp. But different styles should still be allowed.

This map brings back vibes from older maps, and even though all people might not appreciate the oldschool mapping style, this map shouldn't be judged by it's style only. There are indeed some weird choices that should maybe get revised, but please don't try to squash every single map into the same mold.
Kite
osu! Alumni
1,372 posts
Joined July 2009
Kite
O, grats~
Perhaps it will make it to the ranked section this time~
It's hard to say what quality is, in the end players decide for themselves if they like the map and want to play it or not
Ethercastle
116 posts
Joined March 2013
Ethercastle

Charles445 wrote:

The map is probably going to get unqualified for some form of reason, but I'd like to ask that if it DOES get unqualified, that it gets unqualified with good, relevant reasons. There's nothing worse than a post that says "this sucks, remap it because I don't understand it".
^

Still one of my favorite maps, regrats!

不会欣赏艺术的人真是糟糕 EDIT:有人又代表Q（自）AT（己）执行正义啦！
Last edited by Ethercastle , edited 2 times in total.
Kroytz
703 posts
Joined February 2013
Kroytz

joolomasta wrote:

I think that the recent unqualifications have shown us that the QATs are forcing mappers to use a certain style of mapping in order to get their maps ranked. Everything that isn't mapped to the same mold as most maps nowadays do, get DQd several times before maybe getting ranked. I know, the popular mapping style that's being enforced is easy to read, mostly fun to play and gives a lot of pp. But different styles should still be allowed.

This map brings back vibes from older maps, and even though all people might not appreciate the oldschool mapping style, this map shouldn't be judged by it's style only. There are indeed some weird choices that should maybe get revised, but please don't try to squash every single map into the same mold.
If that's the case, then by your definition we should just neglect any sort of guideline/standards that have been established as of recent and map whatever we want, however we want.

This map was made in 2011, and to call it a "style" of mapping is wrong in itself because of how low the standards were during that time compared to now. If low quality is a "style", then there are LOTS of graveyarded maps that should be ranked. I have nothing against unorthodox styles, in fact, I'm all for "different", but we should carefully reevaluate what kind of maps we're trying to promote in osu!
We're not cavemen anymore people...
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro

joolomasta wrote:

I think that the recent unqualifications have shown us that the QATs are forcing mappers to use a certain style of mapping in order to get their maps ranked. Everything that isn't mapped to the same mold as most maps nowadays do, get DQd several times before maybe getting ranked. I know, the popular mapping style that's being enforced is easy to read, mostly fun to play and gives a lot of pp. But different styles should still be allowed.
Well shit, I'm in trouble D:
Also the style that is currently popular is nowhere easy to read, it relies on gimmicks and generally confusing/unintuitive patterns to provide with challenge

joolomasta wrote:

This map brings back vibes from older maps, and even though all people might not appreciate the oldschool mapping style, this map shouldn't be judged by it's style only. There are indeed some weird choices that should maybe get revised, but please don't try to squash every single map into the same mold.
let this get ranked and let players decide whether or not this is good ?
I'm ok with that, I dislike this map because it's the kind of style I enjoy playing and I disagree with a majority of the choices, but that's how soulfear wanted to map it so that's acceptable
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
A few things I'm still surprised about in Sayaka difficulty.

00:42:474 (7) - How does this make any sense? Not only is there no musical cue for such a sudden jump, but the flow coming onto it is completely backwards, and it feels like something you'd see in a TAG4 map.
00:53:808 (11) - The spacing is noticeably off here compared to the rest of the stream, it should be one grid lower on grid4.
00:57:558 (1,2) - The slider velocity here doubles with completely no warning, unless you're able to read the approach circles of the next sliders and see that they're slightly more dense. I know this kind of stuff happens all the time in older maps, but that doesn't make it magically readable.
01:16:974 (4,5,1) - The overlapping here is ugly as sin. I mean, I guess it flows well, so it doesn't need to be changed, but it still makes me barf to look at.
01:50:141 (1) - The end of this slider is actually outside the grid by one or two osupixels. Pretty sure that's unrankable.
01:50:141 (1,1,1) - This feels really horrible to play with the way you keep having to snap back. Could just be me, but I just can't get behind it.


There's plenty more stylistic choices that I don't really like (as well as really janky distance spacing on most streams due to grid snapping) but most of them are excusable as a relic of the time. Someone should really check that one slider though, at the very least.
shionelove
1,521 posts
Joined September 2010
shionelove

FrostxE wrote:

It's good to see a variety of mapping style in the ranked maps instead of a spam of 2015 beatmap styles that allow them to pass the Qualified section.
It might look poor quality to some people, yet it also looks good to some people as well, and there are relationship between the map and song so I hope it passes qualified. ~~
I love
おめでとう！
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami
I think during the ranking process, every other game mode should have been considered as well. I know this is an old map, but I though the same 4 years ago and even now. Auto can handle this in CtB but thats because it is dashing faster than any human could. If this goes through so be it, else the patterns around the end should be changed a little to make it easier to handle. I'm not speaking about complete remap or anything like that, just a small velocity change to make those sliders easier a bit.

Anyway, I think the map is quite enjoyable though [Fear] was way better. Congrats~

Maybe Exgon will fc this.
Rockageek
125 posts
Joined June 2013
Rockageek

Kurokami wrote:

I think during the ranking process, every other game mode should have been considered as well.
This is a really good way to think about submission and ranking, everyone should think like this.
Unfortunately no one cares about other mods when it comes to std map ranking.
Satella
155 posts
Joined September 2013
Satella

Rockageek wrote:

Kurokami wrote:

I think during the ranking process, every other game mode should have been considered as well.
This is a really good way to think about submission and ranking, everyone should think like this.
Unfortunately no one cares about other mods when it comes to std map ranking.
because this map was made for standard, not for CTB.

can you imagine how fucked up all maps would be if you had to take all 4 modes into consideration?
Arphimigon
1,650 posts
Joined December 2014
Arphimigon
Sayaka actually has two offscreen sliders, one mentioned already by MillhioreF

01:50:141 (1) - Offscreen
01:51:974 (1) - Even more offscreen

Just sayin
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

SnickarN wrote:

because this map was made for standard, not for CTB.

can you imagine how fucked up all maps would be if you had to take all 4 modes into consideration?
I never said everything needs to be mapping for all game mode, but there are patterns which are pretty much makes the map unfcable in specific modes.

For example

Taiko (which based on hitsounds only): dddddddddddKddddddd <- Here you can't press both kat at the same time because of the don stream above a certain bpm. This makes the map impossible to SS. Obviously unrankable.

CtB (based on horizontal axis): There are some bpm+SV combo where sliders practically becomes impossible to handle for any human. You can see similar patterns in this map. Using mods usually fix these problem, but we can't rely on them. Obviously, if the map can't be fc'd its unrankable.

I know nothing about mania though.
toybot
1,050 posts
Joined June 2013
toybot
Taking the three other modes into consideration would make standard mapping itself incredibly difficult and restricting. You'd have to be able to control quality gameplay and flow for ALL FOUR MODES, especially considering how diverse each of them are.

Just make your own mapset, you're not constricted by one map per song.
Lach
1,118 posts
Joined November 2012
Lach
Converts are irrelevant for modes other than the one they are intended for. If one map does not convert well, that's unfortunate, but it matters not.

inb4
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
Greetings soulfear, on behalf of the QAT I must disqualify this beatmap again due to the following issues:
  1. The spread between the hyper and another is still too large. The hyper is way too easy in comparison to the another. The another is just a semi-toned down version of the Sayaka. The best option would be to create another difficulty to close the gap between the two.
  2. There are still gameplay issues present throughout all of the difficulties. MillhioreF brings up good points that you should read into. Subsequently, our issues that we have presented should not be brushed off, and should be considered.
  3. The lower difficulties still have issues regarding flow and playability. In particular the Easy difficulty, there are too many poor flowing patterns and hard gameplay that is unacceptable for the lowest difficulty. The normal still contains awkward overlaps, slider shapes, and flow patterns. Please reevaluate them by examining them and acquiring more mods.
The BNG will handle the requalification. Please take more consideration into the points we have outlined, and those who have posted in the thread. Good luck!
pw384
2,287 posts
Joined January 2012
pw384
...
Ayachi-
2,261 posts
Joined November 2013
Ayachi-
卡位
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445
oh ffs

Actually I figured they'd DQ over spread, so I made another Another difficulty to try and fit the gap.
It's 4.7 stars, but it's MUCH easier than the Another.


soulfear: I made a difficulty for you to put in the set if you want, it's 4.7 stars and can help fix spread. It is also based on the existing set style. <Another445>
If you add it, just put Charles445 in tags.

Easy -> Normal -> Hyper -> Another445 -> Another -> Sayaka
Another445
osu file format v14

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AudioLeadIn: 0
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Title:squartatrice
TitleUnicode:squartatrice
Artist:gmtn vs. kozato
ArtistUnicode:gmtn vs. kozato
Creator:soulfear
Version:Another445
Source:BMS
Tags:ruze P Miki Sayaka Thite Witch Rein Rein0527 Fear Charles445
BeatmapID:0
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312,223,126307,2,0,P|318:260|312:291,1,70,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
200,255,126641,2,0,P|193:220|199:186,1,70,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
312,154,126974,6,0,P|318:191|312:222,1,70,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
200,186,127307,2,0,P|193:151|199:117,1,70,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
312,85,127641,2,0,P|318:122|312:153,1,70,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
200,117,127975,2,0,P|193:82|199:48,1,70,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
256,240,128307,5,4,0:0:0:0:
256,192,128474,12,0,130974,0:0:0:0:

Oh and uh, video preview if you have access to youtube
Preview
Nakano Itsuki
1,218 posts
Joined July 2014
Nakano Itsuki
這dq都幾快
blahpy
297 posts
Joined November 2013
blahpy

Charles445 wrote:

Actually I figured they'd DQ over spread, so I made another Another difficulty to try and fit the gap.
Lmao, what a legend! Good on you man.
Kite
osu! Alumni
1,372 posts
Joined July 2009
Kite
Nice one Charles
Owntrolf
546 posts
Joined December 2013
Owntrolf
people die when they are killed
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445

Owntrolf wrote:

people die when they are killed
rip

Added preview to post because osu files are cumbersome
Cherry Blossom
3,185 posts
Joined October 2011
Cherry Blossom

Owntrolf wrote:

people die when they are killed
How to kill someone that has no life ?

____________________________________


Uhhh Looks like there was a miscommunication between BNs and the QAT who disqualified this set.
This second DQ could have been avoided.
Awh well, Charles's GD needs some mods, i'll give my mod soon.
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445

Cherry Blossom wrote:

Awh well, Charles's GD needs some mods, i'll give my mod soon.
Oh only if soulfear adds it, but ok
PM me the mod and if soulfear adds it I'll add the mod to the thread
Ayesha Altugle
3,052 posts
Joined October 2011
Ayesha Altugle
Charles, you're a spread savior!
____________________________________

I am still concerned about the title since it is not the official BMS version.
Zak
641 posts
Joined February 2012
Zak

Kurokami wrote:

I think during the ranking process, every other game mode should have been considered as well.
As much as most standard players look down upon CtB, I think it wouldn't hurt to maybe take our mode into consideration just a bit on some maps.

We have the smallest community, and as a result we have the least mappers, the least modders, the least BN's, and the least maps getting ranked.

While we do have a decent amount of ranked CtB maps we still play converted maps much more often as they're actually able to still make much more sense than Taiko/Mania converts.

Now, I'm not saying it should be done for every hard map, but on a lot of maps, there's just one or two small sections that just convert awful to CtB, and it would be awesome if maybe some mappers could take just a bit to ask a couple CtB players to take a look and see how it converts, and if it's just a couple small sections maybe work together to make it more friendly.

Obviously if the majority of the map converts badly then there's not much that can be done to help, but a lot of players would really appreciate this sort of consideration.
DeletedUser_4329079
DeletedUser_4329079
I'm not a CTB player, but I think it would be better if the conversion system was reworked instead to prevent it from creating unplayable patterns. It's way too broken atm.
Last edited by DeletedUser_4329079 , edited 1 time in total.
Rixia Mao
53 posts
Joined September 2013
Rixia Mao
First bbl: mtb, first qualification: kodora, first DQ: lust
2nd bbl: mtb, 2nd qualification: kodora, 2nd DQ: lust
..i cant even think of a proper word for this
soulfear
947 posts
Joined January 2010
Topic Starter
soulfear
445's diff is added,and rename Hyper->Hard,Another445->Hyper,thanks a lot!
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445
Ah those names are better
Great :D

Don't forget to change map description too
soulfear
947 posts
Joined January 2010
Topic Starter
soulfear

MillhioreF wrote:

A few things I'm still surprised about in Sayaka difficulty.

00:42:474 (7) - How does this make any sense? Not only is there no musical cue for such a sudden jump, but the flow coming onto it is completely backwards, and it feels like something you'd see in a TAG4 map.
I made this from what I feel when I playing this bms by controller,it's not so hard,like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/38966 00:56:207 (1) -
00:53:808 (11) - The spacing is noticeably off here compared to the rest of the stream, it should be one grid lower on grid4.
Fixed
00:57:558 (1,2) - The slider velocity here doubles with completely no warning, unless you're able to read the approach circles of the next sliders and see that they're slightly more dense. I know this kind of stuff happens all the time in older maps, but that doesn't make it magically readable.
It's easy to get them,don't want to change it
01:16:974 (4,5,1) - The overlapping here is ugly as sin. I mean, I guess it flows well, so it doesn't need to be changed, but it still makes me barf to look at.
01:50:141 (1) - The end of this slider is actually outside the grid by one or two osupixels. Pretty sure that's unrankable.
Fixed
01:50:141 (1,1,1) - This feels really horrible to play with the way you keep having to snap back. Could just be me, but I just can't get behind it.


There's plenty more stylistic choices that I don't really like (as well as really janky distance spacing on most streams due to grid snapping) but most of them are excusable as a relic of the time. Someone should really check that one slider though, at the very least.
Last edited by soulfear , edited 1 time in total.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
Please please please please fix the time signature this time.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

Shiro wrote:

let this get ranked and let players decide whether or not this is good ?
I can't get why some people keep justifying this. Beatmap can perfectly stay in non ranked status and people who want to play 2010 style maps will still get their joy. Why you need to force this to ranked, to cause more dramas?

There are so many uneven/badd jumps, sharp and unnatural flows and difficulty spikes.
don't take this as mod post, just few examples for ^
00:08:641 (7,8,9,10,1,2) - this is uneven, it's not like music changes for this spots 00:08:808 (8,9) \\ 00:09:141 (10,1) and there is no symmetry or w.e. to justify this also
00:22:140 (5,6) - good usage of symmetry? music is not emphasized that strong as on 00:14:474 (7,1) or 00:15:808 (4,1) still you have 2 times bigger jump here
00:24:641 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - yes, I'm going to mention no sense comboing too
00:36:808 (4,1) - this jump reflects any stronger emphasize? you can compare with 00:35:308 (4,1) \\ 00:36:141 (4,1) \\ 00:37:474 (4,1) I'm not saying that all jumps must correspond music but please when you decide to put such huge spacing in comparison with your previous for similar background try to put a bit of sense in
00:40:974 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6) - example for sharp flow, don't say this is pleasant to play
00:42:391 (6,7,1) - 6 to 7 jump is equal to 7 to 1 jump while 00:42:641 (1) emphasized like a hell more than 00:42:474 (7) in music
01:12:641 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - half screen jumps, pretty much difficulty spike here, at least flow is back and forth unlike in 01:19:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6)
01:44:308 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - this is just bad, they visually not clear to follow, flows bad and really huge
01:50:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - huge difficulty spike, 3/4 screen jumps

Edit: for Sayaka difficulty obviously
Last edited by Sieg , edited 2 times in total.
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445

ziin wrote:

Please please please please fix the time signature this time.
I'm not entirely convinced with the 5/4 at 01:21:307 - .
It's clearly there to bridge the double signatures at 01:21:307 - and 01:21:640 - , which would make sense, but to be honest it sounds like the song is deliberately stopping in place for a moment.
The only new beats introduced past 01:21:307 - is the attack of a beat that lands at 01:21:641 - .
I'm pretty sure that it's simply a reset, not 5/4 there, which is what the sections are now.
Birdy
5,720 posts
Joined April 2011
Birdy
This is why 2011 stuff should have stayed in 2011. I can't blame soulfear for this, though.

Also here's just two small things that I find odd:
  1. Am I the only one who thinks the preview point is, if not outright terrible, at least unfitting and weird?
  2. 00:23:974 (1) - Why does Normal have a spinner here? No other diffs have it, probably because it's such an unfitting place. It would probably fit if it was 2 beats later, but definitely not here.
Last edited by Birdy , edited 1 time in total.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami
A quick check because requested and I like the song. o/

[Normal]

00:03:308 (2,3) - Swap these on timeline please. It will follow the music better since the big white tick needs to be highlighted.
00:11:641 (2) - You should try to divide this into circle+slider.
00:19:641 (2) - ^
00:23:308 (6) - Make this slider completely vertical to make the flow better.
00:33:308 (1,2,3) - The flow here is a little bit weird. Try something like this: http://puu.sh/hrdj6/e413137e5b.png
00:49:974 (3,4,1) - The overlaps here looks a little bit awful. Try to move the notes a bit so there will be no overlap. (4) to x:280 y:28 (1) to x:104 y:228 for example.
I wonder why these two part mapped differently on timeline: 01:22:974 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) and 01:33:641 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,3,4,1). o.o They do sounds the same so the mapping should be as well. And by the way, even if the timeline repeats, you can do different patterns so it won't be noticeable. :P
01:22:974 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - Try something like this instead to follow the music better: http://puu.sh/hrdYb/0c2b781099.png Also, I tried to copy it later and works great so I think you should try it as well. Using red tick many times can be hard for beginner players.
01:28:308 (1,2,3,4) - How about using the same rhythm here as at 01:38:974 (1,2,3)?
01:41:474 (1) - Remove this note its not really necessary to have it.

I'm not sure why the star rating is high. It plays just fine and can be called as Normal imo. o.o

[Hard]

00:20:808 (6,8) - Remove these. Though its easy to play, they are not really necessary to have.
00:22:474 (3) - Same with this.
00:28:641 (4,5,6) - Try this instead: http://puu.sh/hrejS/f846739e8e.png
01:00:974 (7) - Remove the repeat and just add a circle to that big white tick.
01:22:974 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6) - Now, when you have a chance to use harder rhythm, you just forgot how to do it. :P Please, use the red ticks as well since they are contains useful sounds and they can be mapped at this level. Not much but here is a little example: http://puu.sh/hreEi/1861d35b43.png
01:33:641 (3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3) - If you applied the previous one, please do something here as well.
01:48:974 (5,6) - Same pattern as at 01:46:308 (1,2,3,4) would be nice imo.

[Hyper]

01:54:974 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,1,1,1,1) - Charles forgot how to map. \o/ /me runs

Seems fine to me though I'm not really experienced in standard so I maybe overlook something.
[]
Good luck~



And now I'm going to answer to some ppl.

Default wrote:

I'm not a CTB player, but I think it would be better if the conversion system was reworked instead to prevent it from creating unplayable patterns. It's way too broken atm.
Well yeah. Luckily there are only a few badly converted pattern and these can be avoided if someone just put auto on and play it on CtB before qualify. There is no need to rework something if it can be done on easier way imo. And by the way, maybe there will be worst patterns after the system fix than before, like at the pixel jumps. Now we have HDash (in rare cases) on the first beat of a "hold" note (good example: Big Black).

Lach wrote:

Converts are irrelevant for modes other than the one they are intended for. If one map does not convert well, that's unfortunate, but it matters not.
So if a map can't be fc'd in another mode than that is irrelevant? lfmo Yes, we have a broken system but don't you think there is always a possibility to change it? Cases like this are really rare and as I said already, it can be handled easily with turn x a little or shorten y a bit.

Anyway. This conversation should end now in this topic. If someone wants to answer me, do it in pm to keep this thread as clean as possible.
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