allowing this makes maps like map machine trash. TRASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Streaming with more keys. [invalid]
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Sarthorious
Well, this for sure should be added.
1)It's not fair that few guys abuse of using 3 keys while others can't do it.
2)This could open a gate to new kind of maps and therefore new challenges.It could be a change, and a change in something(The gameplay in this case) that hasn't change for a long time, is always fun from my perspective and an expansion in the horizons of osu! , but if you don't like the new horizons just stay away from them :3.
I tried to stream with 3 keys in the past.. It's not easy, but I felt an immediate change in my streaming speed..Now I prefer to stream with only 2 keys however, cause it's more challenging :3
1)It's not fair that few guys abuse of using 3 keys while others can't do it.
2)This could open a gate to new kind of maps and therefore new challenges.It could be a change, and a change in something(The gameplay in this case) that hasn't change for a long time, is always fun from my perspective and an expansion in the horizons of osu! , but if you don't like the new horizons just stay away from them :3.
I tried to stream with 3 keys in the past.. It's not easy, but I felt an immediate change in my streaming speed..Now I prefer to stream with only 2 keys however, cause it's more challenging :3
the more, the harder. so no.
This is the worst suggestion I have ever seen for any game and you should feel bad. I wont even explain this one... Do you know how much effort it takes to be able to stream high bpm consistently? Really it takes so much to attain this level and adding more keys would make it trivial. If someone illegitimately streams with 3 keys using a third party program then they will probably fail immanently due to how the key inputs are handled in osu!
Sarthorious
It's not that easy to stream with 3 fingers. You could think "Yeah, 1 finger more = Unlimited stream speed", but in the practice it's not like that. You have to train really hard, I know that cause I have tried it and I wasn't able to do 200 BPM streams with 3 fingers, but with 2 fingers I can do them without problems.
You know, I'm really bad to run fast...No matters how much I train to run fast I won't run faster.. I suck for it. I think the same could happen to my fingers.. I can actually do 250 BPM short streams without 100s but I probably have a limit and maybe that limit is determined by my talent to move the parts of my body fast (Maybe) the same could happen to many people. So why should he have a game where the talent is the key to be a successful streamer and not a game where the HARD work is the key.Doesn't seem more fair the hard work thing? and why should we limit the osu!'s capabilities while parallel your ability to stream with 2 fingers still useful (I can't do slow streams with 2 fingers..Only with 1). Your effort wont' be vain just as my effort to single tap faster (I really appreciate this and I find it very useful).
From my point of view, don't allow this is just don't let the osu! grow and let it die old.
You know, I'm really bad to run fast...No matters how much I train to run fast I won't run faster.. I suck for it. I think the same could happen to my fingers.. I can actually do 250 BPM short streams without 100s but I probably have a limit and maybe that limit is determined by my talent to move the parts of my body fast (Maybe) the same could happen to many people. So why should he have a game where the talent is the key to be a successful streamer and not a game where the HARD work is the key.Doesn't seem more fair the hard work thing? and why should we limit the osu!'s capabilities while parallel your ability to stream with 2 fingers still useful (I can't do slow streams with 2 fingers..Only with 1). Your effort wont' be vain just as my effort to single tap faster (I really appreciate this and I find it very useful).
From my point of view, don't allow this is just don't let the osu! grow and let it die old.
Why would someone want to use 5 buttons? it's way more easyer to find the rhytm with just the two keys.
Also i would say ti could be done but still not worth to change the hole game when people are already used to just z/x.
Also i would say ti could be done but still not worth to change the hole game when people are already used to just z/x.
seems like most people hate this idea.
let's scrap it.
let's scrap it.
The reason you couldn't do it is because of the way osu! handles the key inputs. If each key was independent it would remove all the hard work people have put in to streams.whoKnow wrote:
It's not that easy to stream with 3 fingers. You could think "Yeah, 1 finger more = Unlimited stream speed", but in the practice it's not like that. You have to train really hard, I know that cause I have tried it and I wasn't able to do 200 BPM streams with 3 fingers, but with 2 fingers I can do them without problems.
You know, I'm really bad to run fast...No matters how much I train to run fast I won't run faster.. I suck for it. I think the same could happen to my fingers.. I can actually do 250 BPM short streams without 100s but I probably have a limit and maybe that limit is determined by my talent to move the parts of my body fast (Maybe) the same could happen to many people. So why should he have a game where the talent is the key to be a successful streamer and not a game where the HARD work is the key.Doesn't seem more fair the hard work thing? and why should we limit the osu!'s capabilities while parallel your ability to stream with 2 fingers still useful (I can't do slow streams with 2 fingers..Only with 1). Your effort wont' be vain just as my effort to single tap faster (I really appreciate this and I find it very useful).
From my point of view, don't allow this is just don't let the osu! grow and let it die old.
Your argument is "I'll never be able to do it so we should make it easier". I guess we should ban cookiezi completely because he can do jumps you physically couldn't do and he can do streams you can't do. People always say streaming isn't a skill and I used to actually agree with that but I've started to realise it's REALLY hard to do and something hard is a skill. Jumps have lower physical limitations than streams, as in - almost anyone could get lucky and do incredibly fast jumps whilst on the other hand if you can't do a stream then you wont pass ever, you need to get better so to your logic we should actually remove jumps because they are arguably luck based not skill.
Here's an analogy: I can't run as fast as olympic runners so we should let everyone use cars.
tl;dr stop being noobs
i agree with this. please just stop posting here if your gonna complain about how bad you think this idea is. if you want to support it. then thats fine, but please include the reason as too why you support. or this can just get locked. your calltheowest wrote:
seems like most people hate this idea.
let's scrap it.
Actually i sometimes get lucky and 300 a whole stream, but normally i just get 300 > 100 > 50 because i stream either too slow or too fast.jesus1412 wrote:
Jumps have lower physical limitations than streams, as in - almost anyone could get lucky and do incredibly fast jumps whilst on the other hand if you can't do a stream then you wont pass ever, you need to get better so to your logic we should actually remove jumps because they are arguably luck based not skill.
Sarthorious
You are wrong.I just want the osu! to be limitless and try new things..jesus1412 wrote:
The reason you couldn't do it is because of the way osu! handles the key inputs. If each key was independent it would remove all the hard work people have put in to streams.whoKnow wrote:
It's not that easy to stream with 3 fingers. You could think "Yeah, 1 finger more = Unlimited stream speed", but in the practice it's not like that. You have to train really hard, I know that cause I have tried it and I wasn't able to do 200 BPM streams with 3 fingers, but with 2 fingers I can do them without problems.
You know, I'm really bad to run fast...No matters how much I train to run fast I won't run faster.. I suck for it. I think the same could happen to my fingers.. I can actually do 250 BPM short streams without 100s but I probably have a limit and maybe that limit is determined by my talent to move the parts of my body fast (Maybe) the same could happen to many people. So why should he have a game where the talent is the key to be a successful streamer and not a game where the HARD work is the key.Doesn't seem more fair the hard work thing? and why should we limit the osu!'s capabilities while parallel your ability to stream with 2 fingers still useful (I can't do slow streams with 2 fingers..Only with 1). Your effort wont' be vain just as my effort to single tap faster (I really appreciate this and I find it very useful).
From my point of view, don't allow this is just don't let the osu! grow and let it die old.
Your argument is "I'll never be able to do it so we should make it easier". I guess we should ban cookiezi completely because he can do jumps you physically couldn't do and he can do streams you can't do. People always say streaming isn't a skill and I used to actually agree with that but I've started to realise it's REALLY hard to do and something hard is a skill. Jumps have lower physical limitations than streams, as in - almost anyone could get lucky and do incredibly fast jumps whilst on the other hand if you can't do a stream then you wont pass ever, you need to get better so to your logic we should actually remove jumps because they are arguably luck based not skill.
Here's an analogy: I can't run as fast as olympic runners so we should let everyone use cars.
tl;dr stop being noobs
Yeah, that happens on streams that are on a speed that u can click already, even if not with good accuracy.Sakura wrote:
Actually i sometimes get lucky and 300 a whole stream, but normally i just get 300 > 100 > 50 because i stream either too slow or too fast.jesus1412 wrote:
Jumps have lower physical limitations than streams, as in - almost anyone could get lucky and do incredibly fast jumps whilst on the other hand if you can't do a stream then you wont pass ever, you need to get better so to your logic we should actually remove jumps because they are arguably luck based not skill.
what jesus meant was, u can't suddenly stream 300 bpm just by being lucky. Ur fingers won't do that, no matter what u try. U can only achieve this by practicing a LOT.
But when playing Airman, if I have a good day, and am really lucky, I actually manage to hit some of the circles, that doesn't mean I'm actually able to do these jumps.
I hope u get what I want to say.
Also, theowest said it already, we should denie this already, It most likely won't be added.
What you're saying is that you're too lazy to practice/find a techique to stream fast enough for fast maps and you want them to add a third key because you don't want to remap your keyboard.Phenomz- wrote:
Just that, I'm kinda tired of having to map my X key to second C so I can stream faster and pass Mad Machine everytime I want. Same for taiko, those reverse-sliders are equal to impossible streams on taiko, a third clicking key on our keyboards, natively from osu!. Not everyone is a TTTL or a Tom94 to tap or mouseclick.
-Mad machine [champion] is supposed to be hard, if an extra key was added to allow faster streaming, it wouldn't be special anymore.
-Adding extra keys would ruin the game in my opinion.
-If faster streaming was possible, someone would go and make something even faster than mad machine and you would have the exact same problem again. (also, that would make it a hell for people who wish to continue using just 2 buttons)
These are just some of the reasons why this feature should not be added. (some have been mentioned earlier in this thread)
If anything, this feature should rather be added as a diff decrease mod
I don't like this at all. I train hard to be able to pass these 180+ bpm streams, and I'm starting to see results after just 3 weeks :/
you don't need an extra key people, just keep practicing. everytime I ask a pro player how they got good, all they say is "pftt do you know how much I practiced?!"
so yeah. I don't like this idea at all.
you don't need an extra key people, just keep practicing. everytime I ask a pro player how they got good, all they say is "pftt do you know how much I practiced?!"
so yeah. I don't like this idea at all.
i think its fine for osu to play with only 2 buttons. with 3 or more it would be pretty cool though, when you would do the fast piano stuff like on stepmania when it goes from one side to the other. also beatmaps would be better maybe and most 1/8 parts would not be monotone repeating sliders. but this request is just a cry for a solution to stream faster it seems and it seems a bit of a cheap way considering the people that trained so extreme to achieve this level of playing...
Topic Starter
meh... reading everything and all I can say is, you'll never understand the reason of adding this until you've tested it by yourself...
plus, lol@people who think I am a noob that can't stream properly with 2keys
plus, lol@people who think I am a noob that can't stream properly with 2keys
How funny people saying that the game is going to be too easy with 4 keys and game will get too hard at the same time.
Just say you don't like this just because you don't, some of you are way too nonsense.
The game is gonna get easier therefore you dont like it. You make fun of people who wants more key because you think they are cryingbaby who can't do streams. but you also don't like it because then mappers will start to abuse 1/8 streams making game harder? the heck....
I'm not even sure if mappers would, but in that case you are disliking this because this is going to make the game harder. You are the cryingbaby who isn't gonna be able to do 4 keys stream in case this gets implemented.
Saying 'I don't like this because osu with 2 keys is better for me' is much more persuading then anything mentioned above. Even myself doesnt like this feature, but saying 'learn2stream' looks just way too childish and makes no sense. are you gonna agree this if cookiezi suggested this?
Just say you don't like this just because you don't, some of you are way too nonsense.
The game is gonna get easier therefore you dont like it. You make fun of people who wants more key because you think they are cryingbaby who can't do streams. but you also don't like it because then mappers will start to abuse 1/8 streams making game harder? the heck....
I'm not even sure if mappers would, but in that case you are disliking this because this is going to make the game harder. You are the cryingbaby who isn't gonna be able to do 4 keys stream in case this gets implemented.
Saying 'I don't like this because osu with 2 keys is better for me' is much more persuading then anything mentioned above. Even myself doesnt like this feature, but saying 'learn2stream' looks just way too childish and makes no sense. are you gonna agree this if cookiezi suggested this?
The amount of keys you use for osu is part of the gameplay. Changing this would lead to a completely different gameplay. It's on the same level as adding a new unit to an RTS game, or a new weapon to an FPS game, it throws off the balance and invalidates all previous replays.
At best you could have a separate play mode for more keys similar to different maps with different row amounts in IIDX; more keys will never be added for the existing game mode because that changes the entire gameplay. If this was added for an unranked or different/new standard play mode that's fine but you can't claim it's the same to play with different amounts of keys as it's not. People aren't refusing this because of "too easy" or "too hard", it's because it throws off the balance osu was built around until now.
At best you could have a separate play mode for more keys similar to different maps with different row amounts in IIDX; more keys will never be added for the existing game mode because that changes the entire gameplay. If this was added for an unranked or different/new standard play mode that's fine but you can't claim it's the same to play with different amounts of keys as it's not. People aren't refusing this because of "too easy" or "too hard", it's because it throws off the balance osu was built around until now.
Like i said i agree you. I like osu with 2 keys better.
I'm talking to people who are actually saying that this thread was made by cryingbaby who can't do streams. Just that.
I'm talking to people who are actually saying that this thread was made by cryingbaby who can't do streams. Just that.
If this is implemented, then we will need mice with more buttons too. Or do you want to force all mouse only users to use the keyboard too?
IppE wrote:
This is honestly just plain stupid.
This thread is for crybaby players who can't do streams.
I would be happy if this was added as an unranked mod though, I can see that working.
I would be happy if this was added as an unranked mod though, I can see that working.
but nobody wants it implemented!! Just put an [invalid] on this please..Sakura wrote:
If this is implemented, then we will need mice with more buttons too. Or do you want to force all mouse only users to use the keyboard too?
Topic Starter
If adding this means maps with stupidly fast streams then I don't want it.
@Sakura High-skilled mouseonly streamers... haha, there are like what... 3 or 5? they do have their limits, I know few.
rofl@taNa doing rapture+dt
@Sakura High-skilled mouseonly streamers... haha, there are like what... 3 or 5? they do have their limits, I know few.
rofl@taNa doing rapture+dt
I'm supporting this for the sake of knowing that more keys would make it easier. Coming from Stepmania to osu!, having the option of two layouts of keys does make it much easier. But since we have one hand on a mouse, and one hand on the keyboard, having 3, or even 4 keys to stream with would make it easier for most.
For those that don't think that to be the case, place your hand on the desk or on the keyboard, and tap with your tapping fingers as fast as possible. Now do it with four fingers, and go pinky finger to index. If you can, you should notice you're taping four times out of sync, but going from pinky to index you're tapping faster then just your two tapping fingers. Now if you were able to learn to do the lot of it in sync? Well... you theoretically could stream twice as fast. But physically you'd end up being roughly 50% faster.
I use both keyboard and mouse, but I know of people that could easily benefit from this, both tablet and mouse users.
Also, implementing the possibility for it with taiko would make the pro's OP. Just sayin'. +1 from me.
For those that don't think that to be the case, place your hand on the desk or on the keyboard, and tap with your tapping fingers as fast as possible. Now do it with four fingers, and go pinky finger to index. If you can, you should notice you're taping four times out of sync, but going from pinky to index you're tapping faster then just your two tapping fingers. Now if you were able to learn to do the lot of it in sync? Well... you theoretically could stream twice as fast. But physically you'd end up being roughly 50% faster.
I use both keyboard and mouse, but I know of people that could easily benefit from this, both tablet and mouse users.
Also, implementing the possibility for it with taiko would make the pro's OP. Just sayin'. +1 from me.
This thread just needs to be locked. Learn to play like the rest of us and stop complaining about how hard it is to be fast.[Sean] wrote:
I'm supporting this for the sake of knowing that more keys would make it easier. Coming from Stepmania to osu!, having the option of two layouts of keys does make it much easier. But since we have one hand on a mouse, and one hand on the keyboard, having 3, or even 4 keys to stream with would make it easier for most.
For those that don't think that to be the case, place your hand on the desk or on the keyboard, and tap with your tapping fingers as fast as possible. Now do it with four fingers, and go pinky finger to index. If you can, you should notice you're taping four times out of sync, but going from pinky to index you're tapping faster then just your two tapping fingers. Now if you were able to learn to do the lot of it in sync? Well... you theoretically could stream twice as fast. But physically you'd end up being roughly 50% faster.
I use both keyboard and mouse, but I know of people that could easily benefit from this, both tablet and mouse users.
Also, implementing the possibility for it with taiko would make the pro's OP. Just sayin'. +1 from me.
Topic Starter
Or why not you (who already said you doesn't support this and stated the reasons of why) gtfo here?jesus1412 wrote:
This thread just needs to be locked. Learn to play like the rest of us and stop complaining about how hard it is to be fast.
reposting this and hoping that people will see it this time >_>deadbeat wrote:
i agree with this. please just stop posting here if your gonna complain about how bad you think this idea is. if you want to support it. then thats fine, but please include the reason as too why you support. or this can just get locked. your calltheowest wrote:
seems like most people hate this idea.
let's scrap it.
I was going to support this idea, but then I realized that it would give tablet users ever more of an advantage over mouse users. They shouldn't be able to click with a separate key and be able to draw with the tablet.
this is more of a disadvantage, for everyone.TheVileOne wrote:
I was going to support this idea, but then I realized that it would give tablet users ever more of an advantage over mouse users. They shouldn't be able to click with a separate key and be able to draw with the tablet.
Or you could stop being retarded and think you know best and shut up? People play how they want to. Peppy has even quoted that mouse is the only real way to play osu!, does that mean he must restrict tablet and touch screen users? No. User preference is key in osu!, and simple minded twats like you are why we have these stupid mouse vs. tablet fights in the first place.jesus1412 wrote:
This thread just needs to be locked. Learn to play like the rest of us and stop complaining about how hard it is to be fast.
People play how they want to play, so why not let them do so.
And before you say anything, I can stream 210 alternating X and Left click. Not accurately, but I can. I don't need this, I can see the usefulness in it though.
sean, calm down. nobody likes this feature request
this is also a good time to lock this thread.
this is also a good time to lock this thread.
If osu supported unranked play this could be added as an unranked option to play around with for fun, but there's no way this can be added for official play in any way as it has too big of an impact on the physical possibilities of what you can do.
I don't think that you understand that streaming 270 bpm IS NOT EASY to do accurately. The reason I do not support this is that it would make these streams which many people (myself included) have invested HUGE amounts of time into learning, trivial.
The only legit argument I can fathom here is that tablet tap + x can allow players to stream these speeds relatively easily in comparison to keyboard/mouseonly but even then it requires an incredible amount more accuracy to be able to use properly and I only know of a few players who have truly mastered it. The reason this is a shitty idea is because of the fact it would make streams on this level EASY once you learn how much you need to press for a certain bpm. The argument that it would require more skill to be accurate on slower maps is completely null and void because if you really want to you can use 2keys for the part which doesn't involve streams.
I support this as an unranked mod but other than that this literally does cry "streams take too much effort. Make them easier".
PS: If you truly don't want to get thread locked stop getting angry at me.
The only legit argument I can fathom here is that tablet tap + x can allow players to stream these speeds relatively easily in comparison to keyboard/mouseonly but even then it requires an incredible amount more accuracy to be able to use properly and I only know of a few players who have truly mastered it. The reason this is a shitty idea is because of the fact it would make streams on this level EASY once you learn how much you need to press for a certain bpm. The argument that it would require more skill to be accurate on slower maps is completely null and void because if you really want to you can use 2keys for the part which doesn't involve streams.
I support this as an unranked mod but other than that this literally does cry "streams take too much effort. Make them easier".
PS: If you truly don't want to get thread locked stop getting angry at me.
Renard_old
i want to bump this. there are just some beats that are easier to stream with three or four fingers. furthermore, some people just aren't capable of high speed streaming with just two fingers. if training really improves one's streaming speed, that could mean white wolf/cookiezi/other pro dudes can stream 1/4's at 500+++bpm. or maybe they do...? 
having it unranked is pointless, since people can do ranked plays with three buttons, using their current workarounds.
also, keyboard bindings have nothing to do with tablet/mouse users.
I'M GONNA PUT MY ONE AND ONLY ONE STAR TO THIS THREAD DAMMIT
i actually hoped to be able to celebrate that star's first birthday on february19.
Edit: some more emphasis
^^ if you do better with three fingers, use it. otherwise use only two.[Sean] wrote:
Or you could stop being retarded and think you know best and shut up? People play how they want to. Peppy has even quoted that mouse is the only real way to play osu!, does that mean he must restrict tablet and touch screen users? No. User preference is key in osu!, and simple minded twats like you are why we have these stupid mouse vs. tablet fights in the first place.
having it unranked is pointless, since people can do ranked plays with three buttons, using their current workarounds.
not anymore :ptheowest wrote:
nobody likes this feature request
also, keyboard bindings have nothing to do with tablet/mouse users.
I'M GONNA PUT MY ONE AND ONLY ONE STAR TO THIS THREAD DAMMIT
i actually hoped to be able to celebrate that star's first birthday on february19.
Edit: some more emphasis
Please lock this thread...
Aqo wrote:
Please lock this thread...
As dumb and unlikely to be implemented as this request is, it's still technically valid, so we gotta wait for a dev to officially deny it.
I don't really think this is valid. A lot of pros would:
A: Complain that maps are too easy now that they can use three fingers
B: Refuse to use the extra key and complain that it's not fair to force a different playstyle on them that makes maps easier to play, and people who use the third key don't deserve to be on the leaderboard. This would be the Easy mod discussion all over again.
C: Rant about it in the chats and make a feature request to remove it.
I think that's more than enough reason to deny this. Features added to the game should not negatively affect the experiences of other players. The don't like it, don't use it argument does not work, because purposefully handicapping yourself is neither a valid way of playing the game, or better than the current behaviour. Imagine telling someone to single tap if you don't like double tapping keys. Also just because like so many people can stream faster by hitting the mouse button, doesn't mean it should be the accepted standard of playing the game.
I'm considering marking this regardless. People are only going to complain.
A: Complain that maps are too easy now that they can use three fingers
B: Refuse to use the extra key and complain that it's not fair to force a different playstyle on them that makes maps easier to play, and people who use the third key don't deserve to be on the leaderboard. This would be the Easy mod discussion all over again.
C: Rant about it in the chats and make a feature request to remove it.
I think that's more than enough reason to deny this. Features added to the game should not negatively affect the experiences of other players. The don't like it, don't use it argument does not work, because purposefully handicapping yourself is neither a valid way of playing the game, or better than the current behaviour. Imagine telling someone to single tap if you don't like double tapping keys. Also just because like so many people can stream faster by hitting the mouse button, doesn't mean it should be the accepted standard of playing the game.
I'm considering marking this regardless. People are only going to complain.
jesus1412 wrote:
Aqo wrote:
Please lock this thread...
I personally think that mappers should be making maps that are generally passable with two buttons. osu! is a rhythm game, and not a button mash fest. This is why I stay away from those extreme deathstream maps when I play standard. It's not fun anymore beyond that point.
Oh, and to put a final nail in the coffin, mouses generally have only two buttons. Adding a third or fourth key would make it unfair for mouse players.
Oh, and to put a final nail in the coffin, mouses generally have only two buttons. Adding a third or fourth key would make it unfair for mouse players.
It was actually kind of sweet being able to use more than 2 buttons with this program t/117038
I didn't use more than 2 keys, but I were able to use any keyboard key I wanted and I liked that (without having to go to the options and change them). But I think there should be a limit to just use 2 keys at a time.
Tablet users can even use their pen as their third "key".
I didn't use more than 2 keys, but I were able to use any keyboard key I wanted and I liked that (without having to go to the options and change them). But I think there should be a limit to just use 2 keys at a time.
Tablet users can even use their pen as their third "key".
And mouse users can use 4 keys apparently.theowest wrote:
Tablet users can even use their pen as their third "key".
Except no, not really. just lock this thread
Cheating is wrong.Slowpoke wrote:
KeyTweak and PIEFree? What are they for?
ok. i'm just going to lock and deny this. it's pretty clear that people don't want this. a dev is free to reopen this if he feels that this is still valid, but until that happens. thread over