90% Dimming limit: Why?

posted
Total Posts
93
show more
winber1

Marcin wrote:

if you're hardcore enough, you should be able to play with BG, THAT'S _ING HARDCORE.
JENNNNNNYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Jenny
Since I was lured here, my 2ct for you people and all the cryhards: Learn to play the game and adapt to it, don't force the thing to adapt to your needs.

Bubblepoptime!

EAT MY COLORS, BITCHES /o/
Winshley

DADDYCOOLVIP wrote:

While that's what you would assume, I've talked to one good player about it and apparently the majority of great players eg white wolf and all those kind of people disable the backgrounds. This is more evidence that having no background gives you an advantage.
Also the hardcore players will take any advantage they can get, which is why there is a lot of complaints about the feature- it puts the newer players at a disadvantage and alienates the hardcore crowd (as I've mentioned)
More like it's just the players' eyes that fails to read those notes with BG on. I'm going with Jenny:

Jenny wrote:

Learn to play the game and adapt to it, don't force the thing to adapt to your needs.
Marcin

Winshley wrote:

More like it's just the players' eyes that fails to read those notes with BG on. I'm going with Jenny:

Jenny wrote:

Learn to play the game and adapt to it, don't force the thing to adapt to your needs.
Tanzklaue
funny how the guys who defend BG deleting and the guys who defend BG keeping are on the same level of stupidity.


this discussion is old, repetitive, and everybody from either side should finally accept the things like they currently are. saying that BG deleters don't have skill is as wrong as saying that BG deleting is important for high level play.
Gens
You know, this might be a little off-topic, but all this fun spoiler discussions make me think... is it what the mapper really wants? In my case, I wouldn't really mind if people disabled or not my storyboards. I'd totally hate if they disabled my skin, but the storyboard or Kiai I can see why; just as an example.

So, what about the idea of letting the mapper choose what to disable and what not? For some gimmick maps it'd totally destroy the joke, and in that case, everyone would still have the same advantages and disadvantages.

Well, I guess that's more of a feature request than anything.

As for the thread... eh, it's already clear enough it's not going to change. Players should already feel lucky the Fun Spoiler feature was added. If people keep whining about it, it might get removed, even.
Even if there's an advantage, it's a very minimal advantage that can be easily overcome.
Jenny
Funny how the one person following me likely everywhere just opens up more shit and insults :v
Also, I know the feel Gens, the idea seems to be good - also, alternating BGs the mapper could give as "replacemental components" (as for example, for colorblind people?), wouldn't be a bad adition.
Topic Starter
DaddyCoolVipper

Gens wrote:

You know, this might be a little off-topic, but all this fun spoiler discussions make me think... is it what the mapper really wants? In my case, I wouldn't really mind if people disabled or not my storyboards. I'd totally hate if they disabled my skin, but the storyboard or Kiai I can see why; just as an example.

So, what about the idea of letting the mapper choose what to disable and what not? For some gimmick maps it'd totally destroy the joke, and in that case, everyone would still have the same advantages and disadvantages.

Well, I guess that's more of a feature request than anything.

As for the thread... eh, it's already clear enough it's not going to change. Players should already feel lucky the Fun Spoiler feature was added. If people keep whining about it, it might get removed, even.
Even if there's an advantage, it's a very minimal advantage that can be easily overcome.
This'd be a decent solution, actually. Also, every old map made before the update would have the background deletable for fairness. If it was like that, peppy could have his way about the new maps, and the hardcores could have their way as well.
Thanks for the good idea, I'll update the OP.
Mithos

DADDYCOOLVIP wrote:

Marcin wrote:

Screw hardcore players, if you're hardcore enough, you should be able to play with BG, THAT'S _ING HARDCORE.
Anyone here has problem with playing with BG? then it's their own fault that they're THAT bad to cheat with BG.
Uh i have deja vu, i said it, but, who cares.
While that's what you would assume, I've talked to one good player about it and apparently the majority of great players eg white wolf and all those kind of people disable the backgrounds. This is more evidence that having no background gives you an advantage.
Also the hardcore players will take any advantage they can get, which is why there is a lot of complaints about the feature- it puts the newer players at a disadvantage and alienates the hardcore crowd (as I've mentioned)

I'd like peppy to comment on this thread, hopefully he'll notice it.
There is no evidence that 90% dim is any less helpful than a black BG. Like I said earlier, I'll eat my graphics tablet if you find some proof of this.

I agree with Jenny as well. :)
Topic Starter
DaddyCoolVipper

Mithost wrote:

There is no evidence that 90% dim is any less helpful than a black BG. Like I said earlier, I'll eat my graphics tablet if you find some proof of this.

I agree with Jenny as well. :)
I can't provide scientific proof, but the fact that the hardcore players are complaining about 90% dim instead of total removal on top of how peppy thinks 100% dim is "cheating" shows that at least peppy, the person I'm trying to convince, believes that the extra 10% does indeed affect gameplay.
Doodley
Not to jump in the middle of things here, but I'd like to show off a comparison between 90% and black background. I left my own skin on.




When was the last time you were ever actually distracted by a map background? Be honest.

Play a map with just a background. And then play it with 90% dim. And finally, play it with a black background. Come back and tell me just how much the background stole away your eyes in the middle of things. Because I have never, ever blamed the background for screwing me up.
Mithos
Peppy labeled editing the mapset's files (which includes removing/editing backgrounds/skins/storyboards) as cheating. He does not think that playing with 100% dim compared to 90% dim is cheating (or maybe I'm wrong, you gotta ask him). "Hardcore" players started complaining before fun spoiler was in place, when peppy said not to remove backgrounds. It's been like a month or two since you could dim the background. Most "hardcore" players don't even know about the background dim because all of their stuff is all removed.
Gens

DADDYCOOLVIP wrote:

This'd be a decent solution, actually. Also, every old map made before the update would have the background deletable for fairness. If it was like that, peppy could have his way about the new maps, and the hardcores could have their way as well.
Thanks for the good idea, I'll update the OP.
BATs could be able to edit it online (as we already can with online offset and other thingies), in case someone disagrees with something being deletable in an old map. The mapper can then just request a BAT to fix it. That way, everyone who doesn't like it complains about the map and not about osu!~
Scores would be kept, as it makes no sense to delete them; it's not like peppy was planning a score reset for when osz2 came.

I had a feeling the idea had already been brought up and it was shot down, but well, I haven't been really active these days to know what's going on.
Natteke

Mithost wrote:

"If there is no disadvantage for a 90%, then it makes no sense that a 100% dim would be considered cheating"

I'll use the analogy from the last thread. What if you were an artist. You make a nice painting of a mountain, a sunset, whatever you like. You painted that picture to be appreciated the way you made it. A few years later, an art critique walks into the art gallery where your painting is. He walks up to your painting, looks at it for a total of 10 seconds, then takes some scissors and cuts out a slice of your painting, a key part of it to be precise. He then chooses to critique it like he would to any other piece of art. Your first question would be, "Why would this man cut my picture?" His response is, "I can critique your painting better when I remove the distractions."
LOL Strong logic, then how about not allowing any changes to the map? Let's just keep all BGs at 100%, skins as they are etc if you want to keep your "painting" fully assembled? it should be either that or nothing at all.

Also how very nice of you all to speak for every mapper out there. I'm a mapper and I prefer people who play my maps to enjoy my work any way they want, with or without skins or backgrounds, as long as they have fun, I'm happy.
Topic Starter
DaddyCoolVipper

Gens wrote:

DADDYCOOLVIP wrote:

This'd be a decent solution, actually. Also, every old map made before the update would have the background deletable for fairness. If it was like that, peppy could have his way about the new maps, and the hardcores could have their way as well.
Thanks for the good idea, I'll update the OP.
BATs could be able to edit it online (as we already can with online offset and other thingies), in case someone disagrees with something being deletable in an old map. The mapper can then just request a BAT to fix it. That way, everyone who doesn't like it complains about the map and not about osu!~
Scores would be kept, as it makes no sense to delete them; it's not like peppy was planning a score reset for when osz2 came.

I had a feeling the idea had already been brought up and it was shot down, but well, I haven't been really active these days to know what's going on.
I guess at this point we're just waiting for peppy to comment after he reads every counter-argument in this thread to his proposed plan.

Come on, peppy, we're waiting for you!
Mithos
This isn't a feature request and sadly I don't see why he would reply to this one. I hope he does, but it's not guaranteed.
Topic Starter
DaddyCoolVipper

Mithost wrote:

This isn't a feature request and sadly I don't see why he would reply to this one. I hope he does, but it's not guaranteed.
This isn't the feature request forum, this is General Development.


edit: I just tried out 90% dimming for myself. The background/storyboard is still very noticeable, even after the dimming, and is very different from a 100% removal. It's much more noticeable in gameplay than it is in a screenshot.
Mithos
It is still a substantial difference in contrast. It's not 100%, but it's compromise. People should feel lucky that peppy actually agreed to add the setting, when for years and years he was 100% apposed to the idea.
Topic Starter
DaddyCoolVipper

Mithost wrote:

It is still a substantial difference in contrast. It's not 100%, but it's compromise. People should feel lucky that peppy actually agreed to add the setting, when for years and years he was 100% apposed to the idea.
If he can be convinced to go to 90%, he can be convinced to go to 100%. It might take a long time as it has in the past, but I really hope he sees the response and goes back on his current decision, for the best.
Doodley

Mithost wrote:

It is still a substantial difference in contrast. It's not 100%, but it's compromise. People should feel lucky that peppy actually agreed to add the setting, when for years and years he was 100% apposed to the idea.
This is one of the things that bothers me about the toggles. Peppy never ever wanted to add them in: when he did, he added a condition so you could actually appreciate some of the creativity that goes into osu!.

So even after getting their toggles, people still complain.
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply