I support previous poster.

I understand the reason why you do this to preventing people from delete BG/SB/MapSkin
But:
1.Since I adjust BG dim, it keeps flashing. That hurt my eyes and I can't even play longer than 5 mins.
2.For a certain map/diff, every time I retry or back to map list and play again, the adjusted dim stopped working but it still shows it's 90% dim
3.I can only adjust BG dim to 90% if I have already got a rank on that diff, otherwise 50% maximum? What if I don't want to leave a rank on it?

Hope you can fix it.

Bobbias wrote:

deadbeat wrote:

I think its mainly cause its not fair on the mappers who put in time and effort into their maps and then have most people just delete it without even trying it once. and about your skin. thats YOUR choice, you don't have to use that skin, you chose to. so any effect on gameplay it has is your problem and no one elses.

I'll agree that it's not fair to the mappers who put the time in. I just think that it's not fair to the players to force them to always deal with that, especially if it impacts their play negatively.

My skin actually helps me read stacked notes, because of the semi-transparency (you can see a stacked note through the previous one). Also, large hitbursts obscure notes, which should not happen, so I've blanked my 300's and use small 100's and 50s. This is all to make the game more streamlined and let me concentrate on the core mechanics.

don't get me wrong, i like playing with custom skins and i know that map skins can effect your gameplay, but at least this option is fair for both sides.
and to be fair, if someone can't even play a map once as the map was intended, well, then they can either learn to live with it or as peppy said, just go away i guess :/
you can't expect peppy to buckle under for everyone's requests. the fact that he buckled this far should be enough really

i respect the idea. 90% dim is ok and playable. the only thing i want to know is the meaning of the full-screen flashing when bg dim is on. it seem like the bg dim recovers to 0% every several seconds. i just want to know whether it's a bug or meaningful.

The flashing you are seeing may be a bug (t/89439).
Please do note start a heated discussion regarding the toggles etc. in this thread. As I've said, I'm not budging any further. If you don't like it then I give you this opportunity to quietly



(argh all my puushes are double pixels from retina )

Off-topic:

peppy wrote:

[img]http://puu.sh/FuO[/img]

You're doing it wrong, peppy. /me runs away

On-topic question again: Does the Nightcore mod icon skinnable? If so, what's the filename for that? Is it a permanent feature starting onwards?

Hell yeah. I know I'm playing a good game when its admin encourages people to quit when faced with something that people dislike. Way to go.

Natteke wrote:

Hell yeah. I know I'm playing a good game when its admin encourages people to quit when faced with something that people dislike. Way to go.

You're a braver man than I :/

And I wasn't trying to start a "heated discussion" (code for flame war?).

Discussion online CAN be perfectly civil if every party involved decides to stay civil, or moderation threatens to actually do something to those who stray from the civility.

So it has begun

peppy wrote:

A few long-requested features and bug fixes around the place. Changes to chat colouring after the complaints of it being too grey. Limitations to usernames in IRC. Toggles for gameplay elements.

I saw "Long-requested features". My thought: "Disable storyboards??"
Saw "Toggles for gameplay elements." My thought: "DISABLE STORYBOARDS!?!?"

I know you have your viewpoint on this, but this is a Godsend for me; my computer is so horrible it starts to lag just when Kiai Time is activated. With this update, I can now actually play lots of well-known maps like Don't Stop Me Now and I can Be Your Friend!

Although I do agree with you; distracting or no, I prefer to have the SB in place. :3 The original DS games had 3D people doing VERY distracting dances in the background, why is anyone complaining?

Bobbias wrote:

The reason I say this is because for a game to be fair to the players in a competitive environment no player should have an unfair advantage over another player based on anything but skill.

Bobbias wrote:

My skin actually helps me read stacked notes, (...)

Bobbias wrote:

The reason I even bother trying to discuss this is because I enjoy playing Osu, but only when I can play at my best. I'm not all that competitive against other players, although ranking highly feels good.

Please decide which side you are on. Even then, the primary question remains the same: why do you not play the game as it was meant to be played? Please answer in other way than "I KAN'T GET MY HIGH SCORE 'CAUSE BG IS UGLIII!!", you don't remove elements from other games if you dislike them. If peppy had coded the game to have maps in a closed format (unlike now), we wouldn't have had such problems, everyone would just play the game and never think of removing anything.

I think if the flashing gets removed after dim it will be fine, 50% dim is really not that bad. Just get used to it.

Can't wait for leaderboards to be filled with Nightcore Hidden instead of Doubletime Hidden :3

Galkan wrote:

Bobbias wrote:

The reason I say this is because for a game to be fair to the players in a competitive environment no player should have an unfair advantage over another player based on anything but skill.

Bobbias wrote:

My skin actually helps me read stacked notes, (...)

Bobbias wrote:

The reason I even bother trying to discuss this is because I enjoy playing Osu, but only when I can play at my best. I'm not all that competitive against other players, although ranking highly feels good.

Please decide which side you are on. Even then, the primary question remains the same: why do you not play the game as it was meant to be played? Please answer in other way than "I KAN'T GET MY HIGH SCORE 'CAUSE BG IS UGLIII!!", you don't remove elements from other games if you dislike them. If peppy had coded the game to have maps in a closed format (unlike now), we wouldn't have had such problems, everyone would just play the game and never think of removing anything.

You conveniently forgot to quote my discussion on what the primary and secondary mechanics are.

Primary mechanics are the core gameplay, moving your cursor on top of the note, and then clicking/hitting a key in time with the music. Everything else is secondary.

Secondary mechanics can cause bias towards skills which do not factor in to the core gameplay, such as the ability to read notes against the background, or the ability to read at faster or slow approach rates. This bias creates unfair advantages in the sense that one player may be more skilled than another, but may suffer a large disadvantage due to secondary mechanics.

Here's an example: We have 2 players, myself, and MegaManEXE. I am better at reading AR9 and AR10 than MegaManEXE, leading to my being able to pass some maps that he cannot solely based on my ability to read faster approach rates. This is a bias created by a secondary mechanic, because when faced with a song at a speed we can both play relatively well, such as AR8, he easily gets better scores in every aspect than I can.

When I talk about playing the game from a competitive view I do not mean that I want to play the game purely as a competitive game. I'm pointing out that the decisions peppy is making sometimes favor a competitive system, while others are directly counter to that.

The point I'm trying to make is that anything that forces you to use secondary skills which are only tangentially related to the core mechanics of a game causes bias against players unfairly, and that in a competitive setting the ideal solution is to remove all need for players to deal with anything except the core mechanics of the game.

I'm horrible at playing slow AR, or playing maps where my notes blend in to the background, but that doesn't mean other people are as bad at those things as I am. Why should they get the advantage over me if a song has slow AR, or a background that blends with the notes.

My mindset for playing this game is this: when I play a map, I want to concentrate on 2 things, and only 2 things: Moving my mouse where it needs to be, and hitting Z or X when I need to hit them. Nothing more, nothing less. If I want to see a cool storyboard, I'll watch it on auto. I don't want to have to mentally separate the storyboard from the actual game, because I don't have any fun doing that. I have fun when I can enter a state of flow while playing the game (look it up if you need to). I've played plenty of music games, and the enjoyment I get from every single one of them is being able to enter the state of flow. When other things not relevant to actually playing the game distract my mind, it breaks my ability to enter the state of flow.

I'm all fine with these toggles, the requirement to use them and whatnot, but what about storyboards with epilepsy warnings?
I mean, if someone suffers from epilepsy, then how are they supposed to pass a map with flashing storyboards even once?

And why this no show Nightcore

I really hope next time you give us the ability to have our own custom note colors.

Some maps really have dark notes with dark BG. Some people can't even play them properly.

peppy wrote:

Q: OMG I FOUND SOMETHIGN AWESOME
A: PM me; I'll give a prize to the first person who finds this . frans_niko wins

Awesome, thanks!!!!

CXu wrote:

And why this no show Nightcore

Could be interesting to see who plays Nightcore (maybe all), but you are playing DT at all

Bobbias wrote:

peppy wrote:

It should be obvious (and already stated everywhere this discussion has ever taken place) but with the assumption you have been living under a shell and aren't being ignorant, and for verbosity I will provide an answer.

osu! is a game about community and creativity, so the idea is that you are playing the map as it was intended by the creator at least once. If you don't agree with how they shaped their map, you can either:

a) Delete it before passing it as they intended.
b) Accept with how they made it and enjoy it how it is.
c) Stick with it, pass once and then have it your own way.

If you disagree with how I have implemented this, then I suggest you just quit this game. Because I am not changing how this works any further.

I'm not trying to be an asshole, and I have effectively been living under a rock, since I've hardly posted in the forums at all, and basically avoid chat like the plague.

I definitely understand wanting players to experience the map the way the mapper intended, but I feel like this hurts the game's ability to be competitive, at least to some degree.

The reason I say this is because for a game to be fair to the players in a competitive environment no player should have an unfair advantage over another player based on anything but skill. The primary mechanics for osu are moving your cursor to the proper place, and hitting the timing properly. Every other skill involved, such as reading the notes at different approach rates, etc. is secondary mechanics. I feel like secondary mechanics getting in the way of primary mechanics causes unfair advantages, leading to an environment that does not foster competitive play the way you seem to be trying to.

deadbeat wrote:

I think its mainly cause its not fair on the mappers who put in time and effort into their maps and then have most people just delete it without even trying it once. and about your skin. thats YOUR choice, you don't have to use that skin, you chose to. so any effect on gameplay it has is your problem and no one elses.

I'll agree that it's not fair to the mappers who put the time in. I just think that it's not fair to the players to force them to always deal with that, especially if it impacts their play negatively.

My skin actually helps me read stacked notes, because of the semi-transparency (you can see a stacked note through the previous one). Also, large hitbursts obscure notes, which should not happen, so I've blanked my 300's and use small 100's and 50s. This is all to make the game more streamlined and let me concentrate on the core mechanics.

The reason I even bother trying to discuss this is because I enjoy playing Osu, but only when I can play at my best. I'm not all that competitive against other players, although ranking highly feels good. Primarily I play solo, and I play to improve. Not to get any specific goal, but to constantly get better at the game. Anything that forces my brain to do more work doing stuff that isn't a core mechanic of the game will mean less work can be done on the core mechanics. If the background is too bright, or otherwise makes it harder for me to read notes, suddenly I get misses where I wouldn't, and my accuracy suffers, and yet I'm playing the exact same map I would be with a black background. The note positions and timings are exactly the same.

+1. Nothing more to say.

The toggle system is great. I don't really see the point of the Nightcore mode, but it's amusing.

I feel sorry for people who are colorblind or epileptic and need to delete certain elements. Then again, they have to play the song at least once to know that there may be a problem. Therefore, this addition makes perfect sense.

People, stop whining.

*Feels ignored...*

Winshley wrote:

On-topic question again: Does the Nightcore mod icon skinnable? If so, what's the filename for that? Is it a permanent feature starting onwards?

mikhe wrote:

CXu wrote:

And why this no show Nightcore

Could be interesting to see who plays Nightcore (maybe all), but you are playing DT at all

That's the point. I played that with Nightcore.

Winshley wrote:

On-topic question again: Does the Nightcore mod icon skinnable? If so, what's the filename for that?

it's obviously selection-mod-nightcore.png

first try win

..want the original icon though

Isn't the Nightcore mod a bit too high on pitch? let's say... a Chipmunk mod?

ah, for epileptic users... you can add some skin luminosity change or so...

the nightcore mod is soooooo cutee!!!! XDDD seriously this is awesome X3 making osu cuter by using mods to change your song into a nightcore remix, i don't know what to say! nice updates! go osu!!

CXu wrote:

That's the point. I played that with Nightcore.

nightcore is just sub-mod,does not have to be shown on site if peppy does not want.

ReVeNg3r wrote:

CXu wrote:

That's the point. I played that with Nightcore.

nightcore is just sub-mod,does not have to be shown on site if peppy does not want.

But it is actually shown on the in-game leaderboard.

I agree with many stuffs you added peppy.

but I quite don't like this.
"I have to play a map once to disable stuff?"

It's ok for me , but it's a bit wasting time though.

Mapping in nowadays , I can guarantee that some BG and some SB effect can surely distract while playing much to many player.
Note that : I refer to default skin with no mod.

And your opinion which I can't stand is "This will be considered cheating in the near future"

I know you haven't done it but let me explain a bit.
At least, I'm not even cheater or stubborn player to bother you any.

I think you could find many osu!,Taiko and CTB cheater.

Can you consider and focus to ban them instead of player who attempt to reach 1st without cheating but needs removing BG to be able to use Hidden and Double time as well?
You know many top player use deleting BG to attempt to reach top1st and make your game more interesting with awesome replay.

Interesting awesome maybe, cheating in my eyes though. Don't bother arguing; nothing will change ^^;.

peppy wrote:

Interesting awesome maybe, cheating in my eyes though. Don't bother arguing; nothing will change ^^;.

I didn't say to you to change it -.-''

and that sounds good xD
like cheating in your eyes ^^''

btw, fix /np in osu as it was
can't click on beatmap linked to me

I wish more people were happy with what they have, hell, peppy added what you wanted, now you want more?
This honestly is enough, and if the mapper put effort into making their storyboards that should be respected as you are downloading his map...

Honestly, this is a nice update, I'm happy that you're still working on it despite the bitching you get from most of the community on a regular basis.

Just wondering... Why can't we disable sb/skin/etc on non ranked maps? As in... maps still in pending, wip or graved

Tshemmp wrote:

But it is actually shown on the in-game leaderboard.

Yep, that's good, i did one and i can see "Nightcore" in-game, cool

ReVeNg3r wrote:

btw, fix /np in osu as it was
can't click on beatmap linked to me

I had the same problem, i don't know if it has already fixed

peppy wrote:

Interesting awesome maybe, cheating in my eyes though. Don't bother arguing; nothing will change ^^;.

.osz2...................... orz!

Enjoy your hidden only top50s peppy. (and a bit less doubletime)

bye.

"nightnore" is new function?!

peppy wrote:

Q: I have to play a map once to disable stuff? This is stupid! I'm just gonna continue deleting files from my maps!!
A: This will be considered cheating in the near future (and at that point will be recorded). I would highly recommend you stop deleting files as it will save yourself the burden of downloading the missing files again when checks are properly implemented. If you disagree with having to play through the song once, please leave the community quietly, as I will not be budging from this standpoint (hell, I have already dropped most of my personal opinion on this issue to allow these toggles to exist).

Thank god there is still a condition for this badfeature
Do we see if people are using this?
I mean does it show up in top40 if someone got idk #1 with this toggle?

I delete map's content once (Yesterday on Moon's BLYTHE):
1. RAR hitsounds
2. Delete hitsounds (In this map they too silent. I love default hitsounds)
3. Play beatmap on S
4. Restore hitsounds
5. Delete RAR
I never delete SB's files, video (Except in osu!droid ) and beatmap's skin. It makes game too boring.

honestly if you considered it cheating to delete files, why didn't you stop it ages ago?

By the way, we have to do if
Nightcore Mod "goes out of
fashion" with Nightcore? :/

Hm... What means "b" in version. Beta?

First of all, every1 knows that osz2 is coming on it's way. And yet people complain when they finally get their toggle to remove stuff legimitely?

Some people just can't be satisfied. At all.

I honestly did not understand
how people will be calculated
by deleting the files from the
Beatmaps? And what to do
with people like me who
download Beatmaps extracted
from the local network via DC
+ + from other people that
their someone downloaded. I
have about 50 ~ 60% of my
Beatmaps damaged, of which
about 10 ~ 15% do not even
have. Mp3 (. Ogg) with the
song. I'm not talking about
the video part of the SB. What
to do with me?

Archangel Tirael wrote:

Hm... What means "b" in version. Beta?

'b' means build.

Sakura wrote:

Archangel Tirael wrote:

Hm... What means "b" in version. Beta?

'b' means build.

Hmm ... And I do not guess.

Skyripper wrote:

I feel sorry for people who are colorblind or epileptic and need to delete certain elements. Then again, they have to play the song at least once to know that there may be a problem. Therefore, this addition makes perfect sense.

There is one thing that I've thought of... I assume you can't just get the toggle after playing it half way, so what if the player is unable to finish the map that gives him problems?

peppy wrote:

It should be obvious (and already stated everywhere this discussion has ever taken place) but with the assumption you have been living under a shell and aren't being ignorant, and for verbosity I will provide an answer.

osu! is a game about community and creativity, so the idea is that you are playing the map as it was intended by the creator at least once. If you don't agree with how they shaped their map, you can either:

a) Delete it before passing it as they intended.
b) Accept with how they made it and enjoy it how it is.
c) Stick with it, pass once and then have it your own way.

If you disagree with how I have implemented this, then I suggest you just quit this game. Because I am not changing how this works any further.

/me love ppy
*semi-transparent circles + all map elements = love, seriously, I love it this way ;_;

Fun stuff I found on Nightcore mod:

- Turn on Nightcore mod.
- Go watch any Replay data that has DoubleTime.
Result: Song will still get Nightcore'd.

Reverse effect also applies: Not activating Nightcore mod and watching Replay data that has Nightcore mod will give you non-Nightcore'd version.

This should be kept as a feature and not a bug~

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

Isn't the Nightcore mod a bit too high on pitch? let's say... a Chipmunk mod?

Agree

I have no idea how to Nightcore mod, but I'll find that out later. Now about the rest of the updates.

Toggling storyboards and skins to suit my needs? Great, now I can be a loser without actually being a complete loser.

Does no one actually feel that storyboards and shitskins are part of the game and are meant to be tackled with the mentality that they are a challenge to surpass rather than an unreasonable obstacle? Heck, I understand people aren't too happy top players do that to their maps and they follow suit as well, but real skill level doesn't need to be shown in the record books.

Heck, this scrub thinking is probably why I'm edging towards the 1000s from the 100s, but I'm not regretting.

Also, good job on the new osuIRC interface. Now I can tell who's me among all that white.

xXSupanoobXx wrote:

I have no idea how to Nightcore mod, but I'll find that out later.

I'll tell you then: hold click and drag away DoubleTime mod.

Okay, good, and thanks. I wanted to find out because I didn't want to activate it by accident.

Thanks for your feedback guys. Unfortunately you can't provide any more feedback due to this thread spiralling out of control in discussion of silly stuff I already listed in the opening post and clearly explained my stance on. Until next time!