Do not qualify mapsets whose song already has a Qualified mapset, unless no game modes of both sets overlap - this includes remixed versions. For example an osu!taiko and osu! mapset of the same song can exist in the Qualified section, whilst an osu!taiko and osu!/osu!taiko hybrid set cannot. This ensures variety among Ranked beatmaps within their respective game modes.

This has been brought up multiple times before, but with the NAT/BNG restructure on the horizon, and particularly the introduction of the ability of BNs to disqualify mapsets for reasons they feel fit, I feel like this should be brought up again.

This rule should be removed for the following reasons:

1. Removing this rule eliminates any conflict-of-interest problems potentially caused by multiple BNs attempting to rank sets of the same song simultaneously, ensuring all disqualifications are done in good faith rather than because of speedrank wars (see: ADAMAS, RESISTER, Kawaki wo Ameku, and these are only recent examples).
2. Further to point 1, removing this rule reduces the need to rush in the case of a speedrank race, potentially increasing the quality of said maps, because delaying the map one day to rework a pattern or add another GD no longer runs the risk of delaying the ranking of the map by over a week.
3. As mapping has grown, there is no longer any need to "buffer content" with the reasonably large quantity of maps getting ranked weekly. This rule may have helped smooth out the flow of content back when it was introduced, but that is no longer necessary because many more maps are ranked now, ensuring that there will be no content droughts.

it should atleast be changed to allow tv size and full size at the same time imo

tv size and full size is basically the same. just length that is different. i dont like that idea.

but i do want to see atleast remixes are allowed in this case~

I agree with this

i agree so, i'd add limit to qualify the same songs not just removing it cuz i think in future one guy would spam-qualify 130491 maps lol, just in case btw

do 1 qualified set of a song per person so ^ doesn't happen and there wouldn't be an actual limit as to how many maps of said song are in qualified

Do not qualify mapsets by mappers who already have a Qualified mapset of the same song, unless no game modes of both sets overlap - this includes remixed versions. For example an osu!taiko and osu! mapset of the same song can exist in the Qualified section, whilst an osu!taiko and osu!/osu!taiko hybrid set cannot.

agree w/ coco btw

I fully agree with this, if this isn't passing then atleast make tv size/full version/remix of the same song allowed to be multiple time qualified

Djulus wrote:

i agree so, i'd add limit to qualify the same songs not just removing it cuz i think in future one guy would spam-qualify 130491 maps lol, just in case btw

Why would someone rank the same song twice in less than a week? That's super unlikely to happen

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

Djulus wrote:

i agree so, i'd add limit to qualify the same songs not just removing it cuz i think in future one guy would spam-qualify 130491 maps lol, just in case btw

Why would someone rank the same song twice in less than a week? That's super unlikely to happen

Unlikely but within the realm of possibility. Maybe they really like the song :p

i hate when for instance two maps of the same tv size set is qualified. people would start comparing which map is better, some would say this some would say that. and its not a good feeling for the mappers to be compared like that xd

but idk, ive never seen this rule applied live so maybe it will be different

This already happens in instances of multiple ranked sets anyway or a qualified and a pending set which are well-known. Community members being shitty and comparing two sets isn't enough of a downside to cause anime speedrank wars which are not good for the game in my opinion.

Ascendance wrote:

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

Djulus wrote:

i agree so, i'd add limit to qualify the same songs not just removing it cuz i think in future one guy would spam-qualify 130491 maps lol, just in case btw

Why would someone rank the same song twice in less than a week? That's super unlikely to happen

Unlikely but within the realm of possibility. Maybe they really like the song :p

But how is a mapper ranking the same song twice in that period of time any different from 2 mappers doing that? I think both aren't an issue so I support the removal of the rule

allowing both the original and remix would be really cool imo if not full size too.

the speedrank war will happen, with or without this rule anyway. and i only see more downside of having the same content back to back more than one at a time

speedrank war would be way less impactful because instead of your set getting potentially pushed back a week, they would only be pushed back the amount of time you were late.

again, this isn't so much about the complete elimination of speedrank wars but about making it evident that all DQs by BNs are done in good faith rather than because of ulterior motives (pushing their own or a friend's set), because dqs would no longer impact speedrank wars as significantly

Personally I'm against it because I do think throwing the same song into qualified all at the same time is oversaturation. Think of the amount of times we could be seeing <Insert new popular anime OP here> in the course of a few days. There's nothing wrong with waiting and apart from speedrank wars (which shouldn't really be a reason to change RC), the rule isn't that faulty.

However, I do think that differentiating full ver / tv size would be fine. They're the same song but provide a different musical experience, so that doesn't create much of a problem in my eyes

Just my 2c

Edit: DQ's done out of malicious intent will be punished for sure by the way, there's nothing to worry about in that regard simply because BNs now have the ability to DQ

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

Why would someone rank the same song twice in less than a week? That's super unlikely to happen

Ranking full and short version of the same song is something I've wanted to do for a long time but never can since the current rules xD

full and tv size and remix should be treated separately

having 5 maps of kawaki o ameku/ resister/ insert anime op get ranked on the same day is shitty because it blocks all but 3 other songs from getting ranked that day so if you dont like that then its an overdose of anime for the day
which ofc you guys will conveniently try and ignore and say oh just play other maps but its still stupid even if you dont personally find it as an issue, its like releasing new hearthstone cards but each release is the exact same card with minor variations

also i feel like blocking someone from qualifying the same song twice is pointless cuz the only reason they would do that is to meme this rule or because they wanted to rank the full and tv size which are treated the same

if there would be a few sets ranked at the ~same time i doubt players will approach all the difficulties equally (especially if there are like 10 diffs in each set) so i think a one-week queue works well here

though remixes shouldnt be treated the same so i could rank my chika meme pls apply this rule asap i support

i fully support this since i found this rule very pointless when first reading rc

reason: the more qualified maps we have, the more variety of what to play comes

Fayew wrote:

i fully support this since i found this rule very pointless when first reading rc

reason: the more qualified maps we have, the more variety of what to play comes

What variety comes from multiple of the same song coming through at once?

Ascendance wrote:

Fayew wrote:

i fully support this since i found this rule very pointless when first reading rc

reason: the more qualified maps we have, the more variety of what to play comes

What variety comes from multiple of the same song coming through at once?

variety of difficulties and different representations of the same song

tbh I don't think there's a big difference between the same song being qualified multiple times with a difference of 2-3 days between each mapset or with a difference of 1 week, both are kinda lame so having or not having this rule doesn't really matter to me
If it's not gonna be removed entirely, I also agree with allowing remixes and different lengths like others said

No tea no shade but the only real point to keep the rule is to "keep the mapping section more diverse" which in today's standard meta mapping is quite a nonexistent fantasy, to put it lightly. To be more specific - people in general and most standard BNs will agree that maps getting ranked nowadays in most cases look almost identical because people try to make maps as close to the meta that is considered safe as possible or they get inspired a whole lot by particular mappers who are very well-recognized and who usually happen to map in a manner that is considered 'generic' or 'basic' due to standardized patterns that are beloved by everyone.

If we had wanted to keep the diversity in the first place, we would have had a rule which would allow ranking the same song once a year so the ranked section doesn't get flooded too much with the same song and other remixes. Recently we've got the guideline by Raiden which says something like "don't get the same map ranked more than once" so this should settle it. We are most likely not going to see the same map for the same song becoming ranked no matter how hard you try, unless someone is still into uploading someone else's works because they give no fudges about piracy yet those people are going to get "their" pieces of work nuked immediatelly.

I have no idea how identical maps can be in other modes as I am only proficient in the standard mode but on a serious note - the only excuse now from not having two maps for the same song qualified is people are so competitive they want their set ranked as soon as possible so they will play dirty in order to get theirs ranked first. Don't you think removing the rule would make the community a bit less toxic in such a case?

I think removing this rule will cause some people to be annoyed by the spamming of same songs in qualified occasionally, but I don't see why there can't be diversity in the maps of same songs.

Also there is an argument which kinda makes this rule ridiculous: If various mappers can release maps to a song under one collaborative mapset as a workaround, I don't see why individual mappers shoudln't be allowed to release maps to a song under their own mapsets.

what kills me is that speedrank wars exists lol

I got that you don't like low quality maps which are made in the process of speedranking and so it could be solved with rule which would be something like "Song has to be at least 7 days old before getting ranked." (Rule like "Mapper has to has been working on this map for at least 7 days", because we cannot know how long the mapper worked at such a map.)

Edit: Solution with which you came cannot work.

Dave251 wrote:

I got that you don't like low quality maps which are made in the process of speedranking and so it could be solved with rule which would be something like "Song has to be at least 7 days old before getting ranked." (Rule like "Mapper has to has been working on this map for at least 7 days", because we cannot know how long the mapper worked at such a map.)

Edit: Solution with which you came cannot work.

I disagree, unless a map is remapped heavily ranking it on day one opposed to day 7 won't make any difference.

It's initially created to prevent bloated content, and i fully agree with it.

Imagine having like 5 miiros feeding into the ranked section on the same day.

Maybe the time limit could be shortened to like 3 days, but that's too tedious to check.

May I remind that "bloated content" is actually an issue if maps are identical? What's wrong with two completely different interpretations of the same song? I'd rather see those five versions of miiros as I can't distinguish most of the Japanese songs one from another and the only thing I can notice are the note designs and maybe different backgrounds? No tea no shade, but the easiest examples to me are two beatmaps for Kuba Oms' 'All In All': both maps might share some similarities as they were mapped in 2019 but they are not identical like Sotarks' 'JUSTadICE'. I understand that reusing the same thing over and over might feel dull yet such cases of obvious copy-and-paste are rather extremely easy to spot and these might be dealt case by case, just as Yaspo did. We don't need that 'wait until ranked' process anymore, we've already got the guideline disallowing copy-and-paste syndrome, not to mention that plagiarism has been quite forbidden for ages now.

@kibb This rule obviously isn't doing it's job to prevent bloated content anyway. There are still like 10+ chika sets ranked or going to be. I don't see a difference between getting a new chika every week for the next 4 months and getting 10 chikas at once.

Nao's counterpoint is valid but imo that's the fault of the system that lets only a fixed number of sets get ranked per day, and I don't think it's going to severely delay other maps getting ranked by over like a day or two.

Well, try to imagine you're a consumer/player who takes a look at the ranked section on a daily basis. Clearly there being a day where it's just a giant list of Chika/Miiro/Harumachi/whatever sets is going to suck and come over as an issue. Whether or not other maps will start to get ranked a day or two later doesn't matter much; the player's perception will be that content is ridiculously bloated.
In that sense, it's better to spread content out, so players have a variety of choice each and every day. When Chika set #7 appears they'll still get to play the other new maps right next to it.

As for Krfawy, well, it's hard to enforce copy paste syndrome on sets that are qualified concurrently. Which set needs to make changes and which one is fine? With only 1 set in qualified at a time it's clear that the most current one is the one subject to concern. Also same map + different song is still okay because songs are still content in themselves.

@yaspo yes so this rule does its job to prevent the perception of content bloat, while not doing anything to actually address content bloat itself.

Regardless, I don't think it's realistic that there will be more than 2 sets ranked on the same day, let alone 5 like you guys are suggesting. Keep in mind that mappers assemble sets at different rates. There are often 1-2 day gaps between the weekly queuing of chika/harumachi/miiro (and that's a QUEUE, where mappers have time to prepare to be the next to rank immediately) anyway. They'd probably just stream in over like a remarkably shortened timeframe naturally.

The reason I came back to look and comment with this thread is because of the recent justadice drama https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/990079#osu/2071069 where the bn involved in the veto was accused of having secondary motives besides concerns for any lack of quality (point 1 in OP) and I think that removing this rule would alleviate those concerns.

As a result, I agree with this.

There's no doubt yaspo has a point, but it's also a problem that the same song is ranked every week. Usually, popular songs becomes popular maps. But when the fashion is over, people are bored. if not the same mapper was ranked the same song, the player will definitely want multiple sets of maps to rank more.

Therefore, the number of maps that can be ranked in the QUALIFIED section should be increased to two or more, or if the map style is different, it should be possible to rank them.

i see the point for bloated content, but i feel like the most you'll ever see is 2-3 of the same set in the first week or so, maybe with something like chika you might get it a few more times but i dont think ive ever seen more then like 3 sets of the same anime opening pushing on the same day all this really does is remove the dq's for speed rank wars tbh.

id say just remove it, or even just up it to 3 of the same song in qualified remix's tv size and full included.

I feel like what should be the case is that multiple mapsets of the same can be qualified within the same day, however if there are GD's of a mapper that has their own set already qualified then it needs to wait since the styles would be practically identical. Remixes should without a doubt be allowed since it's different enough to be considered a remix. Also a mapper trying to rank a TV-size and a full length song should just do it at different times since they would be by the same mapper for the same song, just that one of the sets is shorter, meaning that there really is no difference or variety between the two mapsets.

The thing is that mapsets potentially contest for Ranked once hitting Qualified. Therefore, the rule is in place to avoid having aforementioned content bloat *in the fresh Ranked section*. As long as there is the possibility that the same song congests the Ranked queue while keeping other content out of Ranked, this rule must persist. Sure you could say that there is a general oversaturation of certain content, but when something hits Ranked, osu! basically "releases new playable content to its playerbase". And now imagine this content is .. always the same? Because the queue for the *other stuff* to hit Ranked is clogged up with the 15th version of the same song. This will ultimatively piss off the people that *do not like the song that clogs this up*. To be fair, this never happened to such an extreme, but we should really avoid these floods of mapsets that all resolve around a FotM song while all the other content gets shafted and shoved aside. The newest content should stay as varied as possible, starting with the songs being always different (or when an already Ranked song gets another mapset it should be sufficiently spaced apart, which is more or less one week)

Every other semi-politicial shenanigans you guys come up with are all first world problems you need to deal with in a more all-embracing manner. If you don't like speedranking, do something about speedranking itself. If you don't like BNs acting in bad faith, kick the BNs in their face. Also this is no buffer content, referring to pre-existing content doesn't change the fact that the freshest content would be congested with similarity.
And yes, remixes and TV sizes should not be Ranked in this time span either, because it's still the same song, just with loli voices or 2 minutes shorter.

And if you want to make an exception for the taiko/catch/mania faction, maybe try to make the Ranked queue be independent for each game mode?

Also if you guys just want everything to be Ranked at the same time, maybe just toss everything into one mapset. Although I feel like this game really needs a more elegant solution regarding this entire "mapset" ordeal and how BNs evaluate massive vs. mini mapsets (effort-outcome-imbalanace)

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

Why would someone rank the same song twice in less than a week? That's super unlikely to happen

It happened A LOT in the past, especially when stuff like Sword Art Online or other hyped anime content was released. That's why the rule exists in the first place. (trust me, after the 5th IGNITE set, we all grew tired of it)

Loctav wrote:

And yes, remixes and TV sizes should not be Ranked in this time span either, because it's still the same song, just with loli voices or 2 minutes shorter.

While TV Size's are understandable, remixes are not, given that remixes are generally very different, and in general are treated as different songs.

For example:

https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/476695#osu/1018247 vs
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/444091#osu/958423

While yes, the first is a remix of Ninelie, the songs are drastically different, they're of different genres completely. While there are some similarities of course, the two songs offer completely different mapping/gameplay experiences.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/1007148 vs
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/263765

Once again, the first song is a remix of the latter. The LU-I Remix is however, also a completely different song, being a completely different genre (J-Core/Hardcore vs J-Rock), and features completely different rhythms, and as such also provides a completely different gameplay experience.

To say that remixes are "...still the same song, just with loli voices..." is just simply false. While the songs may share similarities, what makes a song a remix is that fact that it adds or changes the original, which leads to it being a different song.

Loctav wrote:

And if you want to make an exception for the taiko/catch/mania faction, maybe try to make the Ranked queue be independent for each game mode?

This is already an exception, see the RC:

RC wrote:

"...unless no game modes of both sets overlap - this includes remixed versions. For example an osu!taiko and osu! mapset of the same song can exist in the Qualified section, whilst an osu!taiko and osu!/osu!taiko hybrid set cannot..."

Loctav wrote:

It happened A LOT in the past, especially when stuff like Sword Art Online or other hyped anime content was released. That's why the rule exists in the first place. (trust me, after the 5th IGNITE set, we all grew tired of it)

He's referring the the same person qualifying the same song twice, not multiple people.

ailv wrote:

To say that remixes are "...still the same song, just with loli voices..." is just simply false. While the songs may share similarities, what makes a song a remix is that fact that it adds or changes the original, which leads to it being a different song.

First, this is a very obvious hyperbole. Second, remixes is a very stretchy term. When you consider stuff like GoldenWolf's weird remixes that not really making the remixed song be an actual new song (in comparison to many other heavily altered remixes where the original is a mere resemblence) then yes, I'd argue that these contribute to the stale similarity of Ranked releases and therefore need to sit down and wait. And yes, I would also say that we don't need 50 variations of Utsuho Reiuji's theme in all genres, colors and alterations in Ranked at once either. I am not saying that these can't be mapped, I am saying that their release to Ranked should be spaced apart and therefore should all fall under this rule.

ailv wrote:

This is already an exception, see the RC:

RC wrote:

"...unless no game modes of both sets overlap - this includes remixed versions. For example an osu!taiko and osu! mapset of the same song can exist in the Qualified section, whilst an osu!taiko and osu!/osu!taiko hybrid set cannot..."

Missing my point, I said to make it operate independently, not to declare its independence on a patient piece of paper. TECHNICAL implemented independence is a crucial step here instead of making people remember rules that don't need to be remembered, if there would just be a proper implementation for things

ailv wrote:

He's referring the the same person qualifying the same song twice, not multiple people.

I don't see how it matters whether the same or different people qualify the same song twice, it's still the same song being qualified twice. And this did happen. Nobody really cares *who* is the nominator of the duplicate, really.

A remix is a remix so it's not the same as the original even if it means adding only 1 or 2 verses by a rapper to an existing song or by adding the drums to the background. The very word itself is more than self-explanatory: "re" as in performing an activity again and "mix" so creating a structure by putting various materials together. It doesn't state if the outcome is going to be 99.99% same to the original or if it creates a whole new world from scratches with the only resemblance being actually nothing. Even in such cases a remix (or an edit) is a remix (or an edit), so not the same original mix.

And let's be realistic: you have a huge wave of the maps for the same song ranked once. You won't really have the same enormous wave ever again. Just let it go once and you won't ever deal with the same song to such an extent. By creating this rule people will have to deal with ranking the same song longer and if you remove this people will start forgetting the map/song exists faster. Now this only hinders people which creates a fake queue because 'too much of the same stuff drives people mad' and trust me, more people will keep racing for being the first to rank the same song. This is a literal description of a 'rat race' and may I remind you osu is a free-to-play game and not a factory where the stricter and faster the merrier.

Also, no. People do not care about the frequency of the same song being released in the ranked content, or at least not to this extent you claim it to be. People care about sniping those #1s and getting PP because this is a competitive field for the players. How about we stop putting the same high competitive factor on the mappers instead? This did not, it does not and it will not make people create higher quality maps. Now mappers just try to be the fastest, not the highest quality.

dont think the rule should be deleted, it's serving its function (even if rarely and less effectively than in the past). spreading repeated content (meaning songs to the average player) isn't something to eliminate for reasons that don't affect the average player

my responses to reasons in op:
1. if there's valid reasons for dqs, it's ok? if not, someone's gonna be punished

2. i imagine people will still try to race to have the first ranked set anyway? the first ranked is usually the one with the most plays, so people are tsill gonna rush right?

3. afaik having semi-spread out songs for average players is still considered more of a priority than eliminating mapper speedrank drama