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[New Rule] Anti-Speedranking Rule

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zeroclover
468 posts
Joined December 2010
zeroclover

Starrodkirby86 wrote:

What's the importance of a speedrank? Does it matter to one that a map must get ranked? A map is remembered for its quality, not for how fast it goes in and out of Pending.
SpeedRank

i dont care... speed rank....
just let they make their own game...
if you are pro mapper...
your graveyard... must be creepy...
with graveyarded maps...

let peoples being sad...
because your map being ignored and died...
your map...
is awesome...
because not speedranked...

-end-

this shitty poem by : zeroclover , request from my friend
dont ban me

if you want get priority for your maps, u can ask someone for mods
but star priority not ensure your map will be ranked fast, you need some black magic ritual and entering to dark side room of ******
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,393 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
I understand Tenshi's view, but we can't set a rule just because people makes Maps which are ready and are rankable.
Even when I hate this for myself (because I hate it when people get something ranked in less than three Weeks), this would be unfair more or less.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami
I just hate when one map is get ranked, I play it, get fc below 5 tries, then the map is become unranked, because someone find problems with it. I think it better if these problems are actually be corrected before the ranked status, not after. If the modders are really able to speedrank a map, then they are must find these kind of mistakes.

I don't care about the speedrank thingy as long as the map is stay ranked after it became ranked.
Mercurial
Mercurial

Tenshi-nyan wrote:

With the latest introduction to maps that they now automatically get a star upon receiving a mod (which I heard about just today), I have a new idea.

When we reform the star priority system so that only the amount of mods a map has received is going to count, it is going to make the kuduso system obsolete.
Agree with this one.
bomber34
1,529 posts
Joined February 2011
bomber34

Tenshi-nyan wrote:

With the latest introduction to maps that they now automatically get a star upon receiving a mod (which I heard about just today), I have a new idea.

When we reform the star priority system so that only the amount of mods a map has received is going to count, it is going to make the kuduso system obsolete.
why would people mod then?
Only the people who want the map ranked. You achieve nothing then for modding?
Why would i waste my time with anything then?
yeahyeah m4m ... but who tells me that the mod helps me? If I mod i get at least a Star so even if the other one fails i won something.
Newbie mappers have it even harder then for getting their map ranked.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

Kurokami wrote:

I just hate when one map is get ranked, I play it, get fc below 5 tries, then the map is become unranked, because someone find problems with it. I think it better if these problems are actually be corrected before the ranked status, not after. If the modders are really able to speedrank a map, then they are must find these kind of mistakes.

I don't care about the speedrank thingy as long as the map is stay ranked after it became ranked.
This, this, and this.

If you're going to speedrank, then at least make sure the map is 100% rankable before ranking it. If that's accomplished then I don't really have any problems with it. On the other hand, if your maps consistently get unranked after they get speedranked, then that's a sign that you're doing it wrong.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I guess we can all agree that setting a time limit isn't the way to go, and we can pretty much discuss anything else in another thread probably in another forum.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Dangaard wrote:

Ranking is not a process to please an individual mapper for his work and pat his shoulder. Ranking bears relevance to the whole community and is partially driven by it, maps with more relevance (higher priority) should be ranked first, since they got a larger effect on the community than a map that maybe only pleases the mapper him-/herself.
highly disagree with this, the relevance of the same mappers maps again and again isn't higher than the relevance of little gems.
I see the same names in the ranked maps over and over again, and the maps play 90% the same. only because they have a high star priority doesn't mean that the community likes this map, atleast not if one person can shoot 20 stars on a map, therefore it shows the opinion of one person, not of the community as a whole. since 95% of the community doesn't even have kudosus, you can only represent the opinion of the remaining 5% of the community with the SP.

long story short: the community doesn't want the map with the highest SP, it wants the highest variety of maps from different mappers possible. this cannot be accomplished by following only the SP, because the same people will receive all the mods, while others doon't receive a single one.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Tanzklaue wrote:

long story short: the community doesn't want the map with the highest SP, it wants the highest variety of maps from different mappers possible. this cannot be accomplished by following only the SP, because the same people will receive all the mods, while others doon't receive a single one.
We know what we are doing and this wont happen, if you see the first page of ranked maps, all creators are different.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
Don't forget that the SP isn't coming from nowhere and that the kds are not earned by being famous.
They contributed mods to other maps in order to earn them, so their SP is an outcome of what they contributed to other people's work
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Loctav wrote:

Don't forget that the SP isn't coming from nowhere and that the kds are not earned by being famous.
They contributed mods to other maps in order to earn them, so their SP is an outcome of what they contributed to other people's work
that doesn't change the fact that one person can throw so many SP at one map, so it still only represents the opinion of one person, though it is a person who knows what he/she does.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
well, I see nothing wrong to reward the people who actually pay effords to mod other people's work with giving their own work more attention.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

Loctav wrote:

well, I see nothing wrong to reward the people who actually pay effords to mod other people's work with giving their own work more attention.
This was actually the original intent of the kudosu and SP systems. 'Course, as Gabi said it all went to hell after like a week because some error-filled maps screwed up the system because they kept on getting modded due to priority but couldn't get ranked due to being filled with problems.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
If you want to discuss the SP system, feel free to make a thread somewhere else, but dont draw the discussion more offtopic in here, post here to discuss the original intention of this rule (which i nuked since no one seems to favor it) if i see this discussion go more offtopic i'll be forced to lock the thread.

Before discussing the SP System take in mind these arguments:

- SP System is useless because no one cares about it -> BATs and MATs now pay attention to SP so that it's useful now.

- High SP maps doesnt equal High quality maps -> SP nor anything can determine how much quality a map has, the SP system was to determine how much attention a map needs according to the people supporting it.

- People shouldn't throw more than X stars in a mapset -> SP is the reward from kudosu which is earned from modding other maps, by giving to the community you can increase a map's priority including your own.

- X Bubble is getting ignored -> BATs mostly look at the highest kudosu maps, if your bubble is getting ignored try increasing the SP of it.

- Bubble is too old, and this bubble got ranked -> BATs are still free to choose what to mod, but from higher priority maps, however if your bubble is on the 4th page and has been sitting on pending for months, then it'll probably never get noticed if you don't do something about it, and by something i mean getting kudosu and increasing it's SP, not bugging BATs like they have no life and all they do is mod maps 24/7
D33d
1,697 posts
Joined April 2011
D33d
I haven't read this whole thread, but I agree that there should be at least a hard limit of maybe two weeks. Furthermore, unless my memory fails me (it probably has), a lot of speedranks don't appear to have the necessary star priority. Really, I think that it'd be better if a map was at least given a substantial amount of time for scrutiny. Just because one or a few MATs/BATs think that something's good enough to be ranked, it doesn't mean that somebody else could find something that could be changed.
dkun
osu! Alumni
4,486 posts
Joined August 2009
dkun
Just took a glance at this entire thread, and to be frank... If a map is good, then why not? But on the flip side, if a map is bad and is speedranked, then here entails the problem.

Good and bad is subjective, but what I mean by these words is good for the ranking criteria, and that the mapper does follow what modders have given them for their map.

iMercurial wrote:

Usually, speedranks don't have too many stars to say "Yeah, mod me and rank me".

2 Examples.

t/84715
t/83025

Yeah

If you see a person asking people to testplay, mod, and even star maps, and people say it's fine, or give no feedback, then you see a speedrank as a result, then you cannot blame the mapper for the speed. This is mainly pointed at iMercurial, as he indicated my last two maps were "speedranked".

When your friends happen to be MAT's and BAT's, and you ask them to mod it as well, and they give the same response, all you can do is shrug. I don't ask for bubbles, nor do I ask for ranks. I just ask for my friends to mod my maps, as I would rather them compared to a random modder.
[CSGA]Ar3sgice
4,298 posts
Joined July 2011
[CSGA]Ar3sgice
modding old maps is just slowing down good new maps being ranked

modding high SP maps is just slowing down good maps with less SP being ranked

it's all because there are too many maps

there are 3000+ maps in pending/WIP, of course MATs/BATs can choose what to mod/rank regardless of fairness

mapping less is the best solution here
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

D33d wrote:

I haven't read this whole thread, but I agree that there should be at least a hard limit of maybe two weeks. Furthermore, unless my memory fails me (it probably has), a lot of speedranks don't appear to have the necessary star priority. Really, I think that it'd be better if a map was at least given a substantial amount of time for scrutiny. Just because one or a few MATs/BATs think that something's good enough to be ranked, it doesn't mean that somebody else could find something that could be changed.
The problem with a time limit is that these mappers aren't necessarily going to put unnecessary effort into getting more mods just because they have to wait longer. They are much more likely to just wait until the time limit's up after they feel that their map's ready for ranking.

And yes, all modern speedranks do have the necessary SP. They can't get around that rule, but they do have connections that can assist them with getting the necessary SP really, really quickly.
Tshemmp
1,405 posts
Joined June 2011
Tshemmp
Well, I guess this thread got only started because people have the feeling old bubbles (with low SP) are ignored by BATs whereas some maps get ranked even hours after their bubble. So why not pick up this suggestion:

Tenshi-nyan wrote:

Also, in order to increase the priority of old, bubbled maps, a bubbled map will receive a star (or two) for every week it has the bubble icon.
A time limit as suggested is actually useless in my eyes since if a map is ready then it is ready, if not then not. Anyway I don't see a problem with a time limit. I mean waiting 2 weeks for your map to get ranked isn't hard. Useless but not harmful rule so to speak.
D33d
1,697 posts
Joined April 2011
D33d

Ekaru wrote:

D33d wrote:

I haven't read this whole thread, but I agree that there should be at least a hard limit of maybe two weeks. Furthermore, unless my memory fails me (it probably has), a lot of speedranks don't appear to have the necessary star priority. Really, I think that it'd be better if a map was at least given a substantial amount of time for scrutiny. Just because one or a few MATs/BATs think that something's good enough to be ranked, it doesn't mean that somebody else could find something that could be changed.
The problem with a time limit is that these mappers aren't necessarily going to put unnecessary effort into getting more mods just because they have to wait longer. They are much more likely to just wait until the time limit's up after they feel that their map's ready for ranking.

And yes, all modern speedranks do have the necessary SP. They can't get around that rule, but they do have connections that can assist them with getting the necessary SP really, really quickly.
As far as I see it, a bubble can be still left to sit, so that it gives users a chance to pop it. I see nothing wrong with a popular mapper waiting for two weeks, when many have to wait for up to a year, despite their best efforts.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
How to get your map modded, in order of effectiveness
1) Bug people until they mod your map
2) Bug people until they mod your map
3) Bug people until they mod your map
4) Bug people until they mod your map
5) Bug people until they mod your map
6) Ask people to mod your map
7) Post in mod queues
8) Post in full mod queues
9) Get your map on the first page of non-bubbles
10) Post in modreqs
11) Give your map more priority

The people who are good at #1-6 are the speedrankers. If you want to fix that, then you need to bump #7-11 up in the list somehow. The easiest way would be to get more modders.
dkun
osu! Alumni
4,486 posts
Joined August 2009
dkun

ziin wrote:

How to get your map modded, in order of effectiveness
1) Bug people until they mod your map
2) Bug people until they mod your map
3) Bug people until they mod your map
4) Bug people until they mod your map
5) Bug people until they mod your map
6) Ask people to mod your map
7) Post in mod queues
8) Post in full mod queues
9) Get your map on the first page of non-bubbles
10) Post in modreqs
11) Give your map more priority

The people who are good at #1-6 are the speedrankers. If you want to fix that, then you need to bump #7-11 up in the list somehow. The easiest way would be to get more modders.
Just did #1 and I somehow got a bubble out of it.

This list is magical, ziin!
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

ziin wrote:

How to get your map modded, in order of effectiveness
1) Bug people until they mod your map
2) Bug people until they mod your map
3) Bug people until they mod your map
4) Bug people until they mod your map
5) Bug people until they mod your map
6) Ask people to mod your map
7) Post in mod queues
8) Post in full mod queues
9) Get your map on the first page of non-bubbles
10) Post in modreqs
11) Give your map more priority

The people who are good at #1-6 are the speedrankers. If you want to fix that, then you need to bump #7-11 up in the list somehow. The easiest way would be to get more modders.
Every words in this list is true.
peppy
19,301 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
How to get your map ranked, in order of effectiveness
1) Make it flawless
2) Put a lot of effort into the map. Make it awesome and stand out from the crowd.
3) Make it a popular song (call it controversial, but popular songs are the ones people want to play, so why not?)
4) Have a history of flawless maps (so modders/BATs are more likely to know how easily it can be ranked)
5) Give and receive. Offer to trade mods. Show that you aren't just about "me, me, me"
6) High SP, since we mod and rank at least 50% based on SP of maps.

Also consider that what you call "speedranking" is only so fast because there are minor/no issues. You can't "speedrank" most maps because they you know, require modding.

No rule needs to exist to solve this problem that doesn't exist.
Kawayi Rika
osu! Alumni
3,635 posts
Joined December 2010
Kawayi Rika
Agree with peppy ~ ;)
JauiPlaY
1,287 posts
Joined April 2010
JauiPlaY
The question is, numbers of shit maps still got speedranking.
How to explain that.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

peppy wrote:

No rule needs to exist to solve this problem that doesn't exist.
The best example to this is Rika's last map. It became unranked just because someone not noticed some mistakes.
I'm okay with the speedranks as long as they not become unranked because of some minor error which are easily noticable with a few test play.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

peppy wrote:

How to get your map ranked, in order of effectiveness
1) Make it flawless
2) Put a lot of effort into the map. Make it awesome and stand out from the crowd.
3) Make it a popular song
4) Have a history of flawless maps (so modders/BATs are more likely to know how easily it can be ranked)
5) Give and receive. Offer to trade mods. Show that you aren't just about "me, me, me"
6) High SP, since we mod and rank at least 50% based on SP of maps.

Also consider that what you call "speedranking" is only so fast because there are minor/no issues. You can't "speedrank" most maps because they you know, require modding.

No rule needs to exist to solve this problem that doesn't exist.
Note that everything but #6 applied back in mid to late 2008. And yes, contrary to what some of you newfags think, quite a few people had trouble getting their maps ranked back then (mainly towards the end of 2008 when osu! started picking up in popularity) while some of us got stuff ranked at speeds that make today's "speedranking" look "bleh". (Also, making connections helps, but making said connections effective requires #4.)

EDIT: Also, speedranked maps becoming unranked is a different issue.
Last edited by Ekaru , edited 1 time in total.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

JauiPlaY wrote:

The question is, numbers of shit maps still got speedranking.
How to explain that.
[citation needed]

in any case, this thread needs a lock. Too many opinions. No logical discussion to be had here. Too many people talking. Limit the discussion to the *AT forum.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

ziin wrote:

in any case, this thread needs a lock. Too many opinions. No logical discussion to be had here. Too many people talking. Limit the discussion to the *AT forum.
I agree with this, but the *ATs are just going to say "We don't see any problem here', then forget about this thread.
Crimmi
1,947 posts
Joined June 2009
Crimmi

peppy wrote:

How to get your map ranked, in order of effectiveness
1) Make it flawless
2) Put a lot of effort into the map. Make it awesome and stand out from the crowd.
3) Make it a popular song (call it controversial, but popular songs are the ones people want to play, so why not?)
4) Have a history of flawless maps (so modders/BATs are more likely to know how easily it can be ranked)
5) Give and receive. Offer to trade mods. Show that you aren't just about "me, me, me"
6) High SP, since we mod and rank at least 50% based on SP of maps.

Also consider that what you call "speedranking" is only so fast because there are minor/no issues. You can't "speedrank" most maps because they you know, require modding.

No rule needs to exist to solve this problem that doesn't exist.
Though I don't speak a lot in these types of discussions, I gotta go with the big man on this one. Just because someone's map get ranked in a few days doesn't mean you're gonna kill yourself and cry foul over connections and stuff. My dad always says this; " small contribution, big profit". Plus you don't need to follow the "TV Size/Nightcore/Short Ver." crowd to get noticed and stuff.
peppy
19,301 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy

Kurokami wrote:

peppy wrote:

No rule needs to exist to solve this problem that doesn't exist.
The best example to this is Rika's last map. It became unranked just because someone not noticed some mistakes.
I'm okay with the speedranks as long as they not become unranked because of some minor error which are easily noticable with a few test play.
Cases like this are penalised heavily in the team, so don't worry about that.
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