just reading through some posts, here are some things I would like to respond to from random parts. i dont rly agree or disagree with the proposal but some arguments stuck out to me as being either wrong or just too vague to be addressed properly:
Ephemeral wrote:
not to mention the level of oversight required to ensure that minigame leadership circles didn't just become a closed-off cabal of community regulars
if I understand the proposal correctly, the likelihood of this happening should not increase to anything more than it is right now. IDK if it's a problem rn, but if it's not, then it shouldn't be under this proposal either. also, even though each mode will be independent in some sense, it's not like their respective moderation teams (management team, qat, gmt, whatever) are going to be blind to each other
Ephemeral wrote:
(aka: regular bns would be able to dw, other-mode ones would still have the button, but be expressly instructed not to use it, you can imagine the risk factor there...)
easy fix on the dev side of things; not a relevant concern
Nepuri wrote:
When a new mapper looks into this entire ranking thing and has to wrap his head around the QAT, BNG1, BNG2, probation BNG1 and probation BNG2, the MT and all that wazoop i just find that to be way too intransparent to outside people to even understand the system
agreed that having such an amount of groups/systems working together would be confusing. however, this can likely be solved with clearer labels and more proper information made available to everybody, for example via the wiki or something. perhaps a tooltip on these roles' names that could help the average osu! player understand what they mean
Nepuri wrote:
PS; I find it unrealistic that the devs and all the other internal staff will bother enough for such a workaround by having to continue support for the old qat and bng purely logistically speaking
again if I understand correctly there will be very little dev overhead apart from the initial switch (which, is already very present in the other proposal that will likely make its way into the live system). also I'll probably personally help out with this stuff so yea
Ephemeral wrote:
you might note this is a particularly scathing rebuke of this proposal, and this is largely because much of the sickness in the previous system manifested itself predominately in the other gamemodes.
I think you should provide concrete examples here; it seems like Raiden & others disagree with u because in their experience there really hasn't been a lot of "sickness" in this system since like 2015 or whatever
Raiden wrote:
Having people for years in a position of power does not exclude other people joining in said positions of power if they do good enough.
true, though the possibility is there. Ephemeral and Monstrata both have a very valid concern that this proposal lets a small group of people slowly turn their own opinions into the status quo and they might be able to exclude others without even realising it. maybe clarify in the proposal how this might be avoided, like some checks&balances on the QAT from the BNG or something. idk
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overall I think y'all are overreacting when u say this proposal would be difficult to manage. it's basically just "keep things how they are for other modes" and then adapting to fit in with the proposed osu!standard changes
on the other hand, the only real argument at all I saw for
not just accepting the other proposal is that other modes don't need it and change is inherently worse than no change because unknown things are unknown. which is kinda lame imo, a system will never improve if you don't let it change