Ascendance wrote:

Hello, friends!

I was looking at this map https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1855025 at CLSW's request and came across 00:57:311 (1) - this slider. After some deliberation, I felt that it was not fitting of this difficulty level, but it definitely fits the following two rules/guidelines

From Rain: "Basic hyperdashes can't be used more than four times between consecutive fruits. If higher snapped hyperdashes are used, they must be used singularly (not in conjunction with other hyperdashes or dashes)"
From General: "Hyperdashes may only be used on drops and/or slider repetitions when the slider path is simple and easy-to-follow. This is to prevent chaotic or unreasonably difficult slider movement, as transitioning into and out of complex slider shapes with hyperdash is usually uncomfortable to play and a major penalty to accuracy for little benefit. Hyperdash on slider repetitions must not be used for more than two repeats, and such slider must not be used consecutively."

The slider is technically 4 basic hyperdashes within itself, so it can't technically break the rule, but it seems unsuitable at this difficulty. If it had been 4 1/2 sliders, it would be perfectly fine, for example, but the accuracy required for the current slider pattern may be beyond that of a rain player. I'd like to gather opinions since this is one of the first I've seen of something like this, and if necessary, we should be setting up an RC proposal to allow/disallow hyperdroplets on certain difficulties.

Thanks!

Ranking Criteria wrote:

Hyperdashes cannot be used on individual drops and/or slider repititions. The accuracy and control required is unreasonable at this level and can create a situation where the player potentially fails to read the sliderpath.

Ranking Criteria wrote:

Hyperdashes should not be used on individual drops and/or slider repetitions. If used, the slider path must be simple and easy-to-follow and they can't exceed two consecutive uses for basic hyperdashes. Higher snapped hyperdashes within a slider are not allowed.

Ranking Criteria wrote:

Hyperdashes may only be used on drops and/or slider repetitions when the slider path is simple and easy-to-follow. This is to prevent chaotic or unreasonably difficult slider movement, as transitioning into and out of complex slider shapes with hyperdash is usually uncomfortable to play and a major penalty to accuracy for little benefit.

chickenbible wrote:

Personally, I believe that the hyperdroplets in this map are okay for the difficulty level. I feel as if it is not too difficult to understand/read the pattern for a rain player given the overall feel of the map.

Having hyper-droplets in rain difficulties is fine. Making hyper droplets unrankable in platter difficulties is something that I would agree on and should be enforced.

cyanine wrote:

Change the rule on odose to guideline since it kinda depends on excecution/introduction of concept since complex ones can be fair if used right imo. Rain is pretty understandable but I think people can go the extra mile on overdose in reasonable range.

Everything else seems cool tho



edit: did you mean drop as in slider-tick

Hyperdash on slider repetitions must not be used for more than two repeats, and such slider must not be used consecutively

Sinnoh wrote:

overdose stuff
should make it clear that not having complex paths is only related to droplets and not drops. you can have complicated slider paths without droplets and there's no issue with that (eg chroma - i slider diff)

Hyperdash on slider repetitions must not be used for more than two repeats, and such slider must not be used consecutively

can i veto rc proposals because that's an extremely hard no from me
this rule would straight up ban patterns that are normally fine
eg https://puu.sh/CbaRB/60ee71da47.png
There is only one droplet, the hdashes are as small as possible, which leaves tonnes of room for error. it is no different than if there was no droplet.
What's worse is that at slightly higher bpm there are no droplets, which is now an unrankable pattern due to something completely unrelated.

some changes are needed to the wording, will revisit

JBHyperion wrote:

Might be misinterpreting something here, but isn't it a little contradictory when a Rule states

"Hyperdashes may only be used on drops and/or slider repetitions when the slider path is simple and easy-to-follow."

but the guideline immediately following it states

"Hyperdashes should not be used on individual drops and/or slider repititions. (sic)" ?

What does "individual" refer to in this context, and how is this distinct from being "simple and easy to follow" in the Rule wording?


Additionally, it's probably better to avoid potentially weak language like "might not be able to" in Guidelines, which should be followed in all but exceptional cases. Something like "players are likely unable to", or "it is unreasonably difficult for players to".