Edgar_Figaro wrote:
If you miss at the dead center of the map in STD and SS the rest of the map your score is practically worthless. Yet the same score where you miss at the end of the song is still worth a lot, both scenarios have a player screwing up 1 time and both have them playing perfectly the rest of the map. So why should 1 score be better than the other?
Taiko basically reduces PP for each miss and has a combo score system that stops increasing at 100x. This means that consistency while is definitely important, means that a single miss won't make the play worthless. I think if Standard removed "combo" from being the important factor and instead penalized based on misses it would go a lot more towards balancing rythmn with aim.
The one person who actually understands what I'm talking about. Thank God. If not for this post I would have lost my sanity trying to deal with this community's ridiculous pile-on in my absence. The entire reason I've been talking about aim being overweighted is mainly due to
combo, because it is far and away the primary reason for a
combo break over being off rhythm, and only secondarily due to an inbalance of pp weighting. You'd think I would have made it very clear that this was my primary point considering how I said the word
combo about a million times but apparently not. Everyone wants to argue about my secondary point and completely ignores the main point in the process.
For anyone else who didn't get it: I'm trying to talk about why osu!std is so heavily COMBO based. The COMBO system is the fundamental issue.Maybe I should rename this post to "welcome to osu!, the forum based community where nobody can read".
Endaris wrote:
In any case, you're completely exaggerating your point. Accuracy is not worthless. That is obvious.
No shit, really? I had no idea at all that my post title was hyperbole designed to attract attention and/or a joke themed around the video I posted.
Thank you for clarifying that for me.
Endaris wrote:
Aim is a key component of osu!standard. The arrangement of the note (ideally) serves as an additional layer of expression and is in many cases strongly tied to rhythm as well. This might not be relevant for pp-meta maps but for more complex maps that are actually not mapped with pp in mind, having a good rhythm sense will greatly help you with reading and therefore also with aiming.
I said worthless, not irrelevant. Obviously aim is relevant to mapping.
I'm talking about pp and score, but I think you already knew that judging by your third sentence so I won't ride your ass.
Endaris wrote:
If you want to say that ppv2 is broken then the answer is yes and if you say that the mapping meta is strongly effected by ppv2, none would disagree.
Thank you for your minor agreement.
B1rd wrote:
I don't need to refute you, because reality already refutes you
If you've been reduced to obvious baseless masturbation, do me a favor and do it somewhere else. I'm not interested.
M3ATL0V3R wrote:
Stream maps require little to no aim
Are you joking? Streaming requires very precise and consistent aim. It just doesn't have jumps.
M3ATL0V3R wrote:
a 1000pp choke by cookiezi was a stream map. A 1000pp map that was largely aim would be impossible
A choke, you say? What makes a choke? Oh yeah, a combo break. Hmm.
M3ATL0V3R wrote:
HD requires no increase in aim
Personally, aim is the sole reason HD is difficult for me, but maybe it is different for someone with more practice with the mod than me. I disagree but won't claim my disagreement is objective.
M3ATL0V3R wrote:
Longer maps require better rhythm sense and give more pp with the same peak difficulty.
Longer maps mostly require more consistent aim to avoid a combo break.
All your other points give me the impression you read the title and started writing.
M3ATL0V3R wrote:
Emersyne wrote:
: Ming3012, a highly talented player who sandbags their accuracy as much as possible for the lulz
Umm you realize he is has a pretty decent playtime for his rank. His low acc play style is not broken so this point is invalid
Emersyne wrote:
You mean, there's a fair difference between "someone who played the map almost perfectly, and someone who sandbagged the map
Don't underestimate the skill required to set his scores. They are low acc but good luck setting the same scores
Do you think I don't know that Ming could easily 99% all their low acc maps if they wanted to? Do you understand what the word "sandbag" means?
M3ATL0V3R wrote:
assume aim = 5 and accuracy = 1 and you can only increase aim or accuracy by 1 point.
If you train acc
PP = 5 x 2 = 10
If you train aim
PP = 6 x 1 = 6
Very interesting analogy albeit one I find extremely inaccurate due to how you set it up. Tell you what, though - I've used a similar analogy to communicate my point, with one small change:
Take away a point from your worse skill for a mistake instead of giving a point for training.
If you stumble on acc:PP = 4 x 1 = 4
If you stumble on aim:PP = 5 x 0 =
0Hopefully this makes my objection much more clear.
M3ATL0V3R wrote:
Emersyne wrote:
How many great accuracy plays are you not seeing because there's a combo break in there somewhere?
Combo breaks are effected by both lack of aim or lack of rhythm sense
They are far and away more
affected by aim. I don't see how you could possibly dispute this. A 0 from lack of timing is far, far less common than a 0 from a miss.
Emersyne wrote:
Here we have a top 50 player who plays touchscreen. They are rank #49, with a paltry 90% accuracy. This in itself presents an extremely compelling argument to play touchscreen - sacrifice pretty much all rhythm precision to drastically increase the proficiency of your aim.
M3ATL0V3R wrote:
Its more about how pp is calculated. Cross screen jumps are less about aim when you are playing touchscreen and are over weighted for that play style. There needs to be a separate pp system for touch screen but this does not mean rhythm is worthless as you say.
You're entirely correct that jumps are overweighted, though that isn't my main issue. However, I absolutely believe that osu! should be input device agnostic and that the scoring and ranking system should reflect that. There is no reason to limit the concept of the game or put legitimate players in a scoring ghetto.
And now, the creme de la creme:
Taiga's brain fart> touchscreen shitstorm
> pointing out players
> calling touchscreen players a "cheaters"
> complete lack of basics in term of game mechanic and formulas
> complete lack of knowledge about players (placing MinG into low acc players while he was shooting 99% acc scores in OWC......)
> complete lack of knowledge about the game itself
Nothing more to add, I guess just calling touchscreen players a "cheaters" would be reason to silence you and burn this topic alive into oblivion.
If you had few working braincells, you would point out scores, rise arguments, avoid insulting players and playstyle, prepare for discussion properly.
This whole shit is just "cry me a river" from another butthurt kid who follow /r/osucancer ts hate like a sheep without brain.
Welcome to thread of shitstorm, insults and lack of any logic.
And no, osu is not a mouse/tablet only game. Original precursor, Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan / Elite Beat Agents were an Nintendo DS touchscreen games. By root logic, touchscreen is very close to original playstyle.
PP from cross-screen jumps is not a playstyle problem, it is both - formula and mapping problem. What is easier to fix here? Nothing.
Just deal with it and move on. Nobody will force mappers to not make full screen jumps, monstrata and c.o. will anyway make garbage maps.
PP formula? Well... not in the future, there are bigger priorities right now.
By this stupid "mouse/tablet" ideology and twisted logic out of ass, mouse only players can call keyboard unfair, m+k tablet, rubberdome keyboard user can call mechanical keyboard unfair etc etc etc. Cut this shit out, nobody fucking care, it is just pointless drama made by someone uneducated and bored with his entire life.
I know you wrote this to try to make me angry, but honestly, this is my favorite post of yours, because it is just an absolutely perfect indictment of your terrible character as a human being. This post has absolved me of ever taking you seriously again, because in your attempt to tear me down, you showed that you not only completely failed to understand what I wrote in any way, but are yourself guilty of all your accusations.
Here's a play by play breakdown:
[Taiga] wrote:
> touchscreen shitstorm
> pointing out players
> calling touchscreen players a "cheaters"
Nothing more to add, I guess just calling touchscreen players a "cheaters" would be reason to silence you and burn this topic alive into oblivion.
I don't know how you think I am "calling out" touchscreen players or even trying to denigrate them at all. Did you somehow miss this part?
Emersyne wrote:
This isn't meant to be taken as an indictment of touchscreen in any way - I think that their acheivement is incredibly cool
How did you possibly mistake this:
Emersyne wrote:
But hey, let's forget touchscreen for a moment. Those guys are basically cheaters anyway, this is a mouse and tablet game right?
for anything other than blatant sarcasm? It's completely inconsistent with every other part of my post. Oh yeah, it's because you're chock full of piss and vinegar and totally short on anything resembling adult level reading comprehension.
In fact, I will go as far as to post a private message I sent to freedomdiver the day before I wrote the OP just to show how completely wrong you are about my attitude towards touchscreen players:
That's right, I have "mad respect" for someone you somehow think I am actually calling a cheater.
Next, you accuse me of being uneducated about the game...
[Taiga] wrote:
> complete lack of basics in term of game mechanic and formulas
> complete lack of knowledge about the game itself
...but I'm better at the game than you are! And even then, you've dismissed me earlier as a "farmer", but wouldn't that just illustrate the fact that I have to understand how the system works in order to exploit it? Which one is it? Does it flip flop depending on which side of the bed you wake up on?
[Taiga] wrote:
> complete lack of knowledge about players (placing MinG into low acc players while he was shooting 99% acc scores in OWC......)
> again, a complete lack of any reading comprehension
Emersyne wrote:
Ming3012, a highly talented player who sandbags their accuracy as much as possible for the lulz
Do you know what the word "sandbag" means? I'll save you and M3ATLOVER the legwork and post the definition right here:
Urban Dictionary wrote:
sandbag: When a player in any game chooses (on purpose) to not play their best.
Do you seriously think that I don't understand that Ming is just playing
Johnny-style to make a statement?
[Taiga] wrote:
By this stupid "mouse/tablet" ideology and twisted logic out of ass, mouse only players can call keyboard unfair, m+k tablet, rubberdome keyboard user can call mechanical keyboard unfair etc etc etc.
Again, you didn't actually bother reading my post, or have any understanding of the touchscreen metagame. The people who are the best touchscreen players in the world are the main people who call it unfair. Read their profile pages like I suggested.
And finally...
[Taiga] wrote:
Welcome to thread of shitstorm, insults and lack of any logic.
I see. And who is the sole person in this thread that makes this a fundamental portion of anything they post, ever?
[Taiga] wrote:
If you had few working braincells
This whole shit is just "cry me a river" from another butthurt kid who follow /r/osucancer ts hate like a sheep without brain
Cut this shit out, nobody fucking care, it is just pointless drama made by someone uneducated and bored with his entire life
That moment when you did something and then went on to complain about people doing that, and nobody else did. Great job.
In short, re-evaluate your life and the decision-making that led you to making this potato quality post.