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posted
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 1:02:34 PM

Artist: OISHII
Title: UP UP MT. CAKE
Source: osu!
Tags: creamcore chiptune electronic featured artist nsm beatmapping contest
BPM: 185
Filesize: 2786kb
Play Time: 01:43
Difficulties Available:
  1. Futsuu (2.21 stars, 274 notes)
  2. Inner Oni (5.33 stars, 869 notes)
  3. Kantan (1.31 stars, 148 notes)
  4. Muzukashii (3.17 stars, 514 notes)
  5. Oni (4.14 stars, 685 notes)


Download: OISHII - UP UP MT. CAKE
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
winning entry of the first osu!taiko nsm beatmapping contest
posted
congratz!
posted
omedeto 😉
posted
omedetocongratulationsgozaigoodjob!
posted
if you look at sections like 00:14:270 - it becomes really obvious that there's a lot of potential 1/2 usage you're missing out on in futsuu

00:23:432 - etc etc it's very obvious and you'll likely be able to figure it out yourself

idk what snapping you have your preview point set to but it's unsnapped and should prob go on the 1/8 behind it

00:31:216 - spots where oni settles down look way too much like muzukashii, and it persists until 00:48:729 - , it only makes futsuu's gap even more glaring


instead of repeating myself for the second half , its rly up to you to notice that there is maybe one step of difference between inner/oni/muzu while futsuu and kantan may as well be the ground. more 1/2 in futsuu is absolutely needed but lightening muzukashii in problem (slower) spots would help too
posted
topdiff

00:14:622 (122) - what, what is this? what is this supposed to represent? what is this snapped to? why? you also forgot to even map it here 00:56:135 - so it makes even less sense.
none of the 1/6 used in this is supported by the music, there's literally not one instance of 1/6 used in the entire song.
00:37:703 - why is this not mapped fully as a stream when it's the main melody line, when 00:23:432 - this is mapped completely to the little side bloops that aren't the main melody line.
why are these kiais inconsistant? they don't make any sense. if you're going to kiai the first two sections, do the same for the same section of the music, this is a simple song. but then, you would have like, the entire song kiai'd, so just remove the first two kiai, easy.
00:14:514 - / 00:56:027 - inconsistency? style? mapping random noises in the background? all of the above?

this song doesn't support this difficulty, that's really what I'm trying to say here. all the "improvisation" over these simple lines makes it seem hella overmapped, since the song is so oversimplified. not undersonged, just overmapped.

edit 1: also jesus christ that futsuu/muzu gap

edit 2: also why is the preview point in just the worst place, whatever it doesn't matter just another thing that bugged me
posted

Nifty wrote:

topdiff

00:14:622 (122) - what, what is this? what is this supposed to represent? what is this snapped to? why? you also forgot to even map it here 00:56:135 - so it makes even less sense. ok two things: a) 1/6 for emphasis is very much a concept. consider the fact that most taiko maps have to be "overmapped" in that beats put in the editor don't 1-to-1 correlate with aspects of the music so that the general feel of the patterning matches the music; and b) yes it is mapped at the latter point
none of the 1/6 used in this is supported by the music, there's literally not one instance of 1/6 used in the entire song. refutation: 00:19:541 (166,167,168,169) - and every time this same melody section ends
00:37:703 - why is this not mapped fully as a stream when it's the main melody line, when 00:23:432 - this is mapped completely to the little side bloops that aren't the main melody line. the section at 00:23:432 has a supporting 1/4 melody where all of the notes are distinguishable, while the section at 00:37:703 has a melody that clearly emphasizes 00:37:703 (326,328,329,330,331,332,333,334,335,336) - where the 1/2 gaps allow that emphasis to be recognized
why are these kiais inconsistant? they don't make any sense. if you're going to kiai the first two sections, do the same for the same section of the music, this is a simple song. but then, you would have like, the entire song kiai'd, so just remove the first two kiai, easy. kiais are done based on which parts of the song seem relatively stronger as you go through the song (because for the reason you said, the entire damn song would be a kiai time if i adhered to consistency per same section). so the first two sections are kiai'ed because compared to the intro it's a part where the bass kicks in and the pace of the song ramps up, the third and fourth kiais are done because relative to the parts before them every part of the music is highlighted more
00:14:514 - / 00:56:027 - inconsistency? style? mapping random noises in the background? all of the above? hm i'd expect rationale for this to be more obvious, the latter section has a pounding 1/1 bass beat that i bring out by often using ds on 1/1, while the former does not

this song doesn't support this difficulty, that's really what I'm trying to say here. all the "improvisation" over these simple lines makes it seem hella overmapped, since the song is so oversimplified. not undersonged, just overmapped. repeat point a) from my first response here

edit 1: also jesus christ that futsuu/muzu gap will fix at some point when i'm not lazy

edit 2: also why is the preview point in just the worst place, whatever it doesn't matter just another thing that bugged me it's the melody i like the most lol. mapping is subjective!
thanks for taking a look! gl ranking your own set of this ;)
posted
I wish I had as good refutations as you did when oko popped my set for the first time, cause those were the issues.

But put a period after MT., osu! site metadata is incorrect.

edit: this is really weird, either you made changes while I was modding or made changes before you saw my mod, because the points I made, especially about the imbalanced use of 1/6, were mostly valid and very real when I modded the map, but now they're fixed. Also c'mon, no kds? I know you denied all but the problems were there when I modded, and I pointed out the spread issue too, I even gave you the correct metadata.
posted

Nifty wrote:

and I pointed out the spread issue too, I even gave you the correct metadata.
he's got a point

also if you planned on giving him kds sorry, he kept bringing it up so i was like okay i'll look
posted
uh i literally have not updated this map in like the past month
not sure if you modded topdiff two months ago or something but even then i haven't changed that diff since submission other than fixing overall offset
enjoy your kds tho lol it's all good
posted
inner
00:00:082 (1) - there is no big point having don when compared to these notes 00:01:379 (13) - 00:02:676 (23) - 00:03:973 (34) - .
00:05:190 (46,47) - ^ also you could swap them. if you want to emphasize such a calm part, placing kat sound on barline makes sense absolutely. well up to you.
00:12:892 (109,110) - 00:14:189 (120,121) - 00:18:081 (157,158) - on the contrary, you could emphasize this kiai part by swapping them.
00:46:297 (388,389) - should be removed them then add don to 00:46:135 - . i guess that you just made a similar pattern the same way as 00:41:108 - but they have different sound clearly.
01:27:810 (739,740) - ^ same.

8-)
posted

TKS wrote:

inner
00:00:082 (1) - there is no big point having don when compared to these notes 00:01:379 (13) - 00:02:676 (23) - 00:03:973 (34) - . hm i see your point but i like the way the first notes of the bars are done right now - having the first note of each four bar phrase be a d sort of shapes the phrase if that makes sense
00:05:190 (46,47) - ^ also you could swap them. if you want to emphasize such a calm part, placing kat sound on barline makes sense absolutely. well up to you. same response, see above
00:12:892 (109,110) - 00:14:189 (120,121) - 00:18:081 (157,158) - on the contrary, you could emphasize this kiai part by swapping them. for the first two kiais the structure formed by the first notes is d d k k (with the exception of the second half of the second kiai). since the structure in the beginning is d k k k, the additional d compared to the intro already emphasizes the kiai imo
00:46:297 (388,389) - should be removed them then add don to 00:46:135 - . i guess that you just made a similar pattern the same way as 00:41:108 - but they have different sound clearly. yeah that's something i noticed while mapping, but i decided to stick with the same rhythmic structure at all those parts regardless of the drum beat in the back because i wanted to emphasize the synth melody and sticking a note right after it would detract from said emphasis
01:27:810 (739,740) - ^ same. ^

8-)
thanks tks!
posted
some irc which was done after a pretty extensive voice chat mod on the futsuu/muzu
nudes
2017-11-20 02:25 Chromoxx: uh
2017-11-20 02:25 Chromoxx: did u update futsuu and muzu from our voice chat stuff?
2017-11-20 02:25 hikikochan: yes
2017-11-20 02:25 Chromoxx: ok cool
2017-11-20 02:25 Chromoxx: so let's take a quick look at the inner
2017-11-20 02:27 Chromoxx: 00:11:108 - not a fan of these type of streams tbh
2017-11-20 02:27 Chromoxx: since they take away emphasis from stuff like 00:15:000 -
2017-11-20 02:28 hikikochan: hm
2017-11-20 02:28 hikikochan: im just going through and seeing how much fixing that would require
2017-11-20 02:28 Chromoxx: you could delete stuff like 00:01:136 - here
2017-11-20 02:28 Chromoxx: in the less dense parts
2017-11-20 02:28 Chromoxx: and keep the kiai parts as 5plets
2017-11-20 02:28 Chromoxx: for the progressive emphasis
2017-11-20 02:29 Chromoxx: its just periodically removing notes at the same places
2017-11-20 02:29 Chromoxx: 00:04:703 - you could also delete this
2017-11-20 02:31 hikikochan: ok gimme a few min im going to try something :P
2017-11-20 02:31 Chromoxx: cool
2017-11-20 02:40 hikikochan: ok updated
2017-11-20 02:40 hikikochan: i fixed the first streams you mentioned
2017-11-20 02:40 hikikochan: ok updated
2017-11-20 02:40 hikikochan: i fixed the first streams you mentioned
2017-11-20 02:40 hikikochan: as well as everything correlating with the last thing you mentioned
2017-11-20 02:40 hikikochan: i didn't remove the quintuplets in the calmer parts bc there's something im a weird stickler about
2017-11-20 02:40 hikikochan: and that's if i delete 00:01:136 (10) -
2017-11-20 02:41 hikikochan: then 00:00:244 (2,3,4) - and 00:01:217 (11,12,13) - would both be ddk
2017-11-20 02:41 hikikochan: the natural fix for that would be making the first one kdk
2017-11-20 02:41 Chromoxx: 00:00:244 - you could make this kdk
2017-11-20 02:41 hikikochan: but i'm deliberately contrasting that first triplet with 00:10:622 (87,88,89) - in the first kiai
2017-11-20 02:41 hikikochan: lmao
2017-11-20 02:41 hikikochan: yeah
2017-11-20 02:42 hikikochan: so turning the first into kdk would mess up what i've set up there
2017-11-20 02:42 Chromoxx: yea its ok
2017-11-20 02:42 hikikochan: dope okay
2017-11-20 02:42 Chromoxx: the calm part stuff was just if you wanted to keep the progressive density
2017-11-20 02:42 hikikochan: yeah it's not too big of a deal
2017-11-20 02:43 Chromoxx: the other weird thing was how you quite often just ignore main melody 1/4 hits
2017-11-20 02:43 hikikochan: example?
2017-11-20 02:43 Chromoxx: 00:44:108 -
2017-11-20 02:44 Chromoxx: 01:15:242 -
2017-11-20 02:44 Chromoxx: 01:19:621 - 01:20:269 -
2017-11-20 02:44 Chromoxx: 01:20:432 -
2017-11-20 02:45 hikikochan: okay yeah i see
2017-11-20 02:45 Chromoxx: 01:25:621 -
2017-11-20 02:46 Chromoxx: 01:42:725 - then also i feel like it would be interesting to map the 1/6 and 1/4 here
2017-11-20 02:46 Chromoxx: for a nice finish
2017-11-20 02:46 Chromoxx: (dkkd)kdkddk
2017-11-20 02:48 hikikochan: the two gaps you noted at around 1:19 are bc i didn't want the entire bar to be a stream lol
2017-11-20 02:48 hikikochan: so i broke it up where it made sense
2017-11-20 02:48 Chromoxx: meh
2017-11-20 02:48 Chromoxx: why ot make it a stream when it fits?
2017-11-20 02:48 Chromoxx: not*
2017-11-20 02:50 hikikochan: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9578780
2017-11-20 02:50 hikikochan: these are the notes in the melody that stand out musically
2017-11-20 02:50 hikikochan: so the gaps bring that out
2017-11-20 02:51 hikikochan: wait oops that's the other similar part
2017-11-20 02:51 Chromoxx: 01:20:432 - at least add this one then xd
2017-11-20 02:51 hikikochan: i actually responded to nifty's concern about it in my response to him lol
2017-11-20 02:51 hikikochan: yeah i did
2017-11-20 02:51 Chromoxx: ok
2017-11-20 02:51 Chromoxx: if you add the other ones it should be g
2017-11-20 02:51 hikikochan: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9578800
2017-11-20 02:51 hikikochan: correct spot in the song :P
2017-11-20 02:53 hikikochan: also yes i agree that 1/6+1/4 in the end would be "interesting"
2017-11-20 02:53 hikikochan: it wouldn't make much sense
2017-11-20 02:53 hikikochan: but in terms of density fading out along with the song
2017-11-20 02:53 hikikochan: + the fact that the snapping would just be annoying to play with the bpm changes and all lol
2017-11-20 02:53 Chromoxx: not really annoying
2017-11-20 02:53 Chromoxx: it's pretty simple to play tbh
2017-11-20 02:54 Chromoxx: and the bpm changes already make for the fading effect
2017-11-20 02:54 Chromoxx: pretty much why the artist chose to add the bpm changes into the existing structure of the music
2017-11-20 02:54 hikikochan: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9578830
2017-11-20 02:54 hikikochan: ?
2017-11-20 02:55 Chromoxx: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9578837
2017-11-20 02:56 hikikochan: the problem with making this part 1/6+1/4
2017-11-20 02:56 hikikochan: is that the actual snappings don't match up with the notes in the song
2017-11-20 02:56 hikikochan: the timing points raiden gave only match the notes they're actually on
2017-11-20 02:56 hikikochan: so it's weird as shit to play and i'd have to go back in and time every note LOL
2017-11-20 02:57 Chromoxx: hm tru
2017-11-20 02:58 Chromoxx: meh w/e
2017-11-20 02:58 Chromoxx: gj raiden xd
2017-11-20 03:00 hikikochan: yea :P
2017-11-20 03:01 Chromoxx: oni looks good
2017-11-20 03:01 hikikochan: cool
2017-11-20 03:01 Chromoxx: futsuu and muzu look good too since after our voice session
2017-11-20 03:02 Chromoxx: kantan
2017-11-20 03:03 Chromoxx: 01:33:485 - why is this section suddenly a lot denser than 00:00:082 - ?
2017-11-20 03:03 Chromoxx: same musical intensity
2017-11-20 03:03 hikikochan: inb4 onslaught of criticism
2017-11-20 03:03 Chromoxx: 01:43:174 - delete this note
2017-11-20 03:03 hikikochan: 01:36:404 - deleted this
2017-11-20 03:03 Chromoxx: cos hard timings to hit and having that note gone its the same as in the futsuu atm
2017-11-20 03:04 hikikochan: done
2017-11-20 03:04 Chromoxx: cool
2017-11-20 03:04 Chromoxx: thats about it
2017-11-20 03:04 Chromoxx: another thing that was bugging me
2017-11-20 03:04 Chromoxx: is the fact that the kiais seem pretty random
2017-11-20 03:05 Chromoxx: 00:10:460 - 00:20:838 - why are these kiai but not 00:31:216 - which is more intense?
2017-11-20 03:05 Chromoxx: 00:41:594 - and why is an interlude part like this kiai?
2017-11-20 03:05 Chromoxx: they are p inconsistent overall
2017-11-20 03:05 hikikochan: 00:41:594 - this is a continuation of 00:31:216 but more intense
2017-11-20 03:05 hikikochan: lol thanks osu
2017-11-20 03:05 Chromoxx: wait, 00:51:973 - not 00:31:216 -
2017-11-20 03:06 hikikochan: oh
2017-11-20 03:06 hikikochan: this song is a game of
2017-11-20 03:06 Chromoxx: you are just being inconsistent with the kiais
2017-11-20 03:06 Chromoxx: you make the first main melody parts kiai
2017-11-20 03:06 hikikochan: "where the fuck do i put kiais"
2017-11-20 03:07 Chromoxx: but not the ones later which are stronger
2017-11-20 03:07 Chromoxx: just make all parts where the main melody is introduced kiai
2017-11-20 03:07 hikikochan: p/6349998 i explain it here :P
2017-11-20 03:08 Chromoxx: if you made the kiais consistent
2017-11-20 03:08 hikikochan: ok how about i just remove the first two
2017-11-20 03:08 hikikochan: solves everything
2017-11-20 03:08 Chromoxx: it would be about as much as it is now
2017-11-20 03:08 Chromoxx: sure
2017-11-20 03:08 Chromoxx: removing the first 2 would also work
2017-11-20 03:09 Chromoxx: tell me when u updated
2017-11-20 03:09 Chromoxx: i wanna sleep xd
2017-11-20 03:11 hikikochan: done
2017-11-20 03:12 Chromoxx: ok
2017-11-20 03:12 Chromoxx: lemme post irc
posted
elite mapper is a meme
posted
I still think the inner need to be brought to attention, the "emphasis" at 00:14:514 - is not fitting for such a small occurrence in the music.

The 1/6 at 00:19:541 - and the corresponding patterns is not appropriate since it's aligned to a pattern that is 1) not exactly what it is mapped as and 2) instantly switches to essentially a 1/4 improv pattern over the bass+snare background. This is extremely misleading, as for the first 4 notes you are playing to the high pitched trill that slows down, but for the rest of the pattern it isn't necessarily mapped to anything in the music that is important at the time. This forces the player to play it just by reading, which may not be difficult, but it's something that shouldn't happen when there are alternative solutions, like using sliders.

tl;dr for some reason: mapping the first 4 notes of the trill and instantly switching to a layer that you can hardly here isn't okay.

Also were the kantan and oni even touched?
posted

Nifty wrote:

I still think the inner need to be brought to attention, the "emphasis" at 00:14:514 - is not fitting for such a small occurrence in the music.

The 1/6 at 00:19:541 - and the corresponding patterns is not appropriate since it's aligned to a pattern that is 1) not exactly what it is mapped as and 2) instantly switches to essentially a 1/4 improv pattern over the bass+snare background. This is extremely misleading, as for the first 4 notes you are playing to the high pitched trill that slows down, but for the rest of the pattern it isn't necessarily mapped to anything in the music that is important at the time. This forces the player to play it just by reading, which may not be difficult, but it's something that shouldn't happen when there are alternative solutions, like using sliders.

tl;dr for some reason: mapping the first 4 notes of the trill and instantly switching to a layer that you can hardly here isn't okay.
here's a concept: mapping exactly to the song doesn't always produce good results
the melody from 00:19:541 - to 00:20:189 - and every similar instance is 6 notes of 1/6 followed by 5 notes of 1/4. for the sake of comfortable playing and not overemphasizing (the way you think i did at 00:14:514 -), i choose to use only 4 notes of 1/6 followed by a stream
if i were to "map to the music," i'd be pulling some shit like (kdkdkdk)dkdk because that's literally what the song does. however, because i am aware of how to map taiko patterns in a manner that takes into consideration more factors than just pitch relevance in the main melody, i chose to make this stream (kkkd)dkdkkd. i prefer to not use sliders when there are more engaging ways to map aspects of the music

Nifty wrote:

Also were the kantan and oni even touched?
here's another concept: they didn't need any touch-up :P
posted

hikikochan wrote:

if i were to "map to the music," i'd be pulling some shit like (kdkdkdk)dkdk because that's literally what the song does.
That's my point, that's exactly what the song doesn't do. It's... that word that is used when something isn't aligned to a metronome. It's random, you can't map it exactly unless you used, like, 1/16. That's why it's not appropriate for things to be mapped "not exactly" to it, the method you're using it not helping the players rather than hurting them.
posted

Nifty wrote:

That's my point, that's exactly what the song doesn't do. It's... that word that is used when something isn't aligned to a metronome. It's random, you can't map it exactly unless you used, like, 1/16. That's why it's not appropriate for things to be mapped "not exactly" to it, the method you're using it not helping the players rather than hurting them.
"unsnapped?" lol that's the word you're looking for
the trill here may not be perfectly snapped yes, but the way i mapped it makes sense when played in the context of the song (as opposed to listening for snapping on 25% speed). the first three notes in the trill actually match up more or less perfectly to 1/6 snapping which further backs up the rhythm i'm using
posted
Kantan

00:13:054 (19,20,21) - d k d here? I think the color change here would fit pretty well with the change in pitch (down/up/down)
00:18:243 (27,28,29) - Same idea here, except use k d k instead?
00:29:919 (46,47,48) - Make this k k k for consistency with what you did on 00:09:162 (12,13,14) - ? They both map to the trill sound and I think you have a good amount of variation elsewhere anyways. This sound is quite unique so using the same rhythm creates a better sense of consistency that ties in the rest of the sections.
00:40:297 (60,61,62) - First of all, not really sure why 00:40:784 (61) - is a d, maybe change it to k instead so you get some color alternation going into the start of 00:41:594 (62) - for better emphasis? Second, 00:40:297 (60) - could also be k, I think this rhythm would flow pretty well but feel free to disagree.
00:50:675 (72,73,74) - k k k instead? Because who doesn't love white supremacists? (I wonder how old this joke is, I'm new to taiko pls let me have my fun). Also cuz you use d k d for 00:54:567 (79,80,81) - so it would be nice if you used a different rhythm to help distinguish the two rhythms a bit better.
01:27:485 (128) - Not really sure why this is a d either. I think k is better for the pitch?

Oni

00:04:135 (22,23,24) - ddk sounds pretty cool here. kdk felt kinda uh, idk not necessary? Stick with a simpler rhythm since this is the intro?
00:18:406 (111,112) - k d instead of d k? I think it flows better like that.
00:31:540 (204,205) - Imo better to put the k on 00:31:540 - for the snare. I understand that putting a k on 00:31:703 (205) - also makes sense for the high note, but since you've been using color changes like 00:32:027 (206,207) - on snares, i think it's better to use the k for the snare sound here too.
01:21:810 (554,555,556,557) - k d d k instead of k k d k? There's an extra drum hit on 01:21:972 - that you could embellish with a d instead of keeping it k.

[]

So hard to mod this x___x it's so perfect haha. Welp, sry if this is a short mod, it still ended up taking me like 2 hours to do lol... Just modded the two diffs that apparently didn't have any mods, hopefully some of this helps. So hard to find stuff to suggest. Honestly # of mods =/= quality, but since this is a contest map, might as well make sure all the diffs are at least formally modded. Hope some of these will help you, congrats again~

You can call me if you need another BN, though you probably have enough.
posted
thx for mod!
changes

Monstrata wrote:

Kantan

00:13:054 (19,20,21) - d k d here? I think the color change here would fit pretty well with the change in pitch (down/up/down) ok,
makes sense

00:18:243 (27,28,29) - Same idea here, except use k d k instead? i think you have the wrong time stamp because it's already k d k...
00:29:919 (46,47,48) - Make this k k k for consistency with what you did on 00:09:162 (12,13,14) - ? They both map to the trill sound and I think you have a good amount of variation elsewhere anyways. This sound is quite unique so using the same rhythm creates a better sense of consistency that ties in the rest of the sections. sure. also changed 00:29:270 (45) - to d to set up the pattern better, pls check
00:40:297 (60,61,62) - First of all, not really sure why 00:40:784 (61) - is a d, maybe change it to k instead so you get some color alternation going into the start of 00:41:594 (62) - for better emphasis? Second, 00:40:297 (60) - could also be k, I think this rhythm would flow pretty well but feel free to disagree. makes sense, fixed
00:50:675 (72,73,74) - k k k instead? Because who doesn't love white supremacists? (I wonder how old this joke is, I'm new to taiko pls let me have my fun). Also cuz you use d k d for 00:54:567 (79,80,81) - so it would be nice if you used a different rhythm to help distinguish the two rhythms a bit better. LOL but yea, that's a good idea
01:27:485 (128) - Not really sure why this is a d either. I think k is better for the pitch? done

Oni

00:04:135 (22,23,24) - ddk sounds pretty cool here. kdk felt kinda uh, idk not necessary? Stick with a simpler rhythm since this is the intro? changed
00:18:406 (111,112) - k d instead of d k? I think it flows better like that. i think both work equally well in this pattern, but since i used d k for an earlier rhythm i'll switch to k d for some variation
00:31:540 (204,205) - Imo better to put the k on 00:31:540 - for the snare. I understand that putting a k on 00:31:703 (205) - also makes sense for the high note, but since you've been using color changes like 00:32:027 (206,207) - on snares, i think it's better to use the k for the snare sound here too. done
01:21:810 (554,555,556,557) - k d d k instead of k k d k? There's an extra drum hit on 01:21:972 - that you could embellish with a d instead of keeping it k. done
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