ShogunMoon wrote:
oh no
but gratz anyway~
he made a sb on granat 6 months ago, so no lolfieryrage wrote:
can we all just appreciate this is the first time kirby has ranked at least something in literally 5 years
gratz!!Stefan wrote:
At least the difficulty names aren't completely retarded anymore. congrats
because it doesn't use direct inappropriate lyrics, it's full of words that can be taken as a double sense lyrics, but nothing directly a kid maybe can't notice what's going on.Mun wrote:
wait, haven't we legit nuked maps for inappropriate lyrics before? Why is a song that is basically a sex scene conveyed in Spanish poetry being qualified?
Yes, that's true. Not everything needs endless pages of mods to reach the requirement for quality but a few more mods on the catch diffs wouldn't hurt because quality is lacking a bit, especially considering the wrong snaps in the overdose which both Setomi and eldnl here both pointed out. Also the hitsounds were mentioned, they do sound a bit off at times because it was copied from the std diffs (?) and the catch diffs don't use the same timeline (?). Either way, it's not much effort to adjust the hitsounds a bit to fit the catch the beat timeline better.Monstrata wrote:
Number of mods and time spent in pending say absolutely nothing about the maps quality. My diffs received over 10 mods and I fixed about four objects total. And yet my diffs are still better quality that 98% of the maps produced today. Don't mod something because it lacks mods, mod if it lacks quality. But quality is not lacking in these ctb difficulties at all.
Setomi wrote:
Mod Spec's Overdose[Spec's Overdose]
In the introduction part I think you could leave a few more 1/4 gaps like you did at the start, some examples are: 00:12:745 (3) – and I personally think 00:15:441 (3,4,5) – these could be bit shorter in the timeline since they are on low decibel sounds and it would fit more like an introduction
I disagree since in current way they're fitting more with the vocal
00:46:284 (4) – If you would like to use minimal vertical movement to emphasize these two vocals I’d suggest making 00:45:441 (6) – horizontal. Because a lot of sliders and movement are vertical in general in this section it gets hard to emphasize using those vertical sliders this is acceptable even if it's a minor suggestion. I'll consider fixing it when the mapset goes to pending due to severe issues
00:48:390 (2,3) – These are not snapped quite right to vocals and I would move them left to their respective 1/6 spot, 00:48:362 – for (2) and 00:48:587 – for (3) I'm not sure about this one(I mean I think both 1/6 and 1/8 can work here, for the reason Monstrata stated in the thread) but I got what you mean. I'll try to ask and gather others' opinions as well
00:49:318 (6,1) – These two feel a bit too wide in movement if you compare it to previous parts. Also, 00:49:486 (1) – starts on an sss sound which is not very loud or impactful so having such a big HDash plays a bit strange I think they're still fine
00:58:924 (1,2) – These two feel a bit underemphasized in comparison to 00:56:228 (1,2) – for example I think the HDash for 00:59:262 (2,3) - is enough here
01:00:273 (1) – Since vocals have been the focus in this section it feels weird to just cut out a vocal here having a slider body going over a vocal. I’d recommend doing an easy re-adjust in the time line like this (pointer is on (1)'s original position). This way you can slow it down without missing the vocal The part is mainly following the melody so I think it's fine as it is
01:19:994 (4) – This starts on a silent sound so I think the movement is a bit too big here and I’d recommend you do something like you did here 01:06:174 (1,2) – where (2) is not so far away from (1) okay
The part between 01:20:331 and 01:22:354 feels a bit strange because you’re trying to emphasize both the drums and vocals, and you also use a whole new style here when not much has changed in the music so it comes out of nowhere. I’d recommend just doing a bit more structured, if you want to change emphasize from vocal to drums then really put the focus on the drums and not 50/50. I think they're fine as they are
01:31:792 (6,7,8,9) – Considering the overall difficulty in the kiai I think you could easily get away with making this more difficult because both your style and music support it here! I think it's hard enough lol
03:40:556 (3,4) – These two feel a bit weird since the expectation is on the vocals but are not snapped to those. I’d recommend you give those vocals a bit of the same feeling as you did in the part between 00:41:396 and 00:49:486. It’s good because vocals will be followed and will feel nice gameplay-wise to have a repeated pattern. fixed
Concluding I think there are some things that need to change before qualifying and I think this shows it could have used a bit more polishing. Going forward I think both difficculties main thought is good and some few adjustments are needed. Also, if the argument is going to be made about hitsounding is hard, takes a long time or w/e the ranking criteria doesn't require advanced hitsounding.
eldnl wrote:
Spec's Overdose
00:48:137 - I think you can use the 1/6 ticks to follow the voice better, it felt really odd while playing. same as above
Excellent difficulty overall <3 thanks <3
Benny- wrote:
Yes, that's true. Not everything needs endless pages of mods to reach the requirement for quality but a few more mods on the catch diffs wouldn't hurt because quality is lacking a bit, especially considering the wrong snaps in the overdose which both Setomi and eldnl here both pointed out. Also the hitsounds were mentioned, they do sound a bit off at times because it was copied from the std diffs (?) and the catch diffs don't use the same timeline (?). Either way, it's not much effort to adjust the hitsounds a bit to fit the catch the beat timeline better.Monstrata wrote:
Number of mods and time spent in pending say absolutely nothing about the maps quality. My diffs received over 10 mods and I fixed about four objects total. And yet my diffs are still better quality that 98% of the maps produced today. Don't mod something because it lacks mods, mod if it lacks quality. But quality is not lacking in these ctb difficulties at all.
But my main concerns are the snaps in spec's diff because that's objectively unrankable and requires a DQ
- 00:45:778 (2,3,4) - This should be snapped to 1/6, not 1/8
- 00:48:138 (1,2,3) - Same here
- 00:49:065 (5) - Should actually be snapped to 1/12 00:49:092 - I'll keep the snapping things for now for the reason Monstrata stated on the thread, but if this is going to be disqualified I'm willing to fix them
- Additionally, I think since you've been focusing a lot on the vocals, this slider 00:49:486 (1) - could start 00:49:598 - here instead to better fit with that This is fine as it is supposed to follow the melody
lulMonstrata wrote:
And yet my diffs are still better quality that 98% of the maps produced today.
I made modifications to the hitsounds when I was mapping it, it's impossible to exactly copy their hitsounding because, as you said, they aren't following the same timeline. Making assumptions isn't a proper way to get your point across though. I'm human and I make mistakes, I'm obviously not a god at hitsounding by any means. My title is elite mapper, not elite hitsounder. Either way, thanks for your concerns and your time modding this map!Setomi wrote:
Hi, saw this in qualified and have some thoughts and opinions regarding the two osu!catch specifics so decided to give them a mod.
Starting off I know both Ascendance and Spectator are revered mappers but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be quality checked like anyone else. I know there have been multiple of cases in both one mode sets and hybrid sets where few mods were required for rank, and that's fine as long as the BN in question sees the map as of good enough quality.
Now in this case it's a map which has not been up for longer than a month and been a complete set for an even shorter amount of time, and it goes without saying that the faster you bubble > qualify a set the more certain you have to be that it is of that great quality. Now this is a three mode hybrid set which means you have to be proficient enough to assess the quality of three modes. Normally a BN doesn't have to be this proficient because the community has discussed through the set and together come to the conclusion that it's ready for a run in the qualify section.
This time the osu!catch specifics received a total of three mods, two for Ascendance's diff and one for Spectator's, one being a Rain (Insane) and the other one being an Overdose (Extra). I could not find a lot of mods for Taiko but I haven't looked at them nor am I skilled enough to assess their quality as ranked maps but what Taiko had that osu!catch did not was discussion. No known public discussion was made regarding the osu!catch specifics other than from the BN who bubbled and the two respective mappers.
So, looking through both diffs it's easy to see that both osu!catch specifics could be polished more. Hitsounds in one of the difficulties is what sounds to be copy-pasted with little to no consistency throughout the song and playing this one time with hitsounds on is enough to notice it. Feels strange how this is not even considered before moving to qualify since even the ranking criteria states that hitsounds is one of the main elements for variation in mapping, which personally to me sounds like something of value.
So my point with this rant is why this happens. Most specific sets for osu!catch gets multiple mods before ranking and I don't see why this is not the case here. These two difficulties should be polished the same way as any other difficulty, and if it's decided to be bubbled without a lot of community input, you have to be damn sure you know what's up. All of the standard difficulties gets multiple mods, I know standard has more modders but osu!catch doesn't have so few that at least one or two mods extra couldn't be added. Something like hitsounding in this case where it's very obvious shouldn't slip through.
This issue should have its own discussion elsewhere but I just want to shed some light onto this because of the importance of that at least the few osu!catch specifics that gets out is of at least polished standard. Now onto mod.Mod Ascendance's Rain[Ascendance’s Rain]
00:12:575 (2) – remove reverse Why? There's a vocal there
00:13:587 (2) – remove Why? There's a sound there
00:25:216 (1,2,3,4) – Decide on one type of movement here since music require nor support change in movement. 00:26:564 (3,4) – This movement is fine for both. The short, accentuated syllables are kinda neat and just doing a back-forth movement here would be incredibly boring. It's also to emphasize a change in vocals from 00:19:823 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - and to create a lead-in to the next section.
00:29:935 (5) – Both slider head & tail hits on low decibel sounds. If you’re trying to emphasize the FX it’s very strange to have such a wide spacing and changing direction with the slider, nothing really supports such movement. Hitsounds does not really support this as well for obv reasons. I could also make the argument that a low decibel sound like that shouldn’t that similar movement to previous notes which are actually ‘high decibel’. Two alternatives are to adjust both hitsounds and movement to fit the audio level of the FX or change previous circle (4) into a longer slider. I'm just following the same emphasis pattern I've been doing for the entire map, with things like 00:32:632 (2,3) - , 00:35:328 (4,5) - etc. It's weird to only be pointing this one out.
00:31:283 (3) – You could make the argument for this being simplified rhythm, but I digress.
This part is probably the most controversial part because this is the only diff in the set that uses this choice of rhythm, both standard and ctb. This uses apart from the other difficulties puts focus on adding movement to very low decibel sounds. Quick examples are: 00:31:283 (3) - 00:33:980 (2) - 00:35:328 (4). The reason this both sounds and plays strange is because the use of two rhythms. Let me break this down.
00:30:609 (1,2) – These two hits on drum respectively synth. When starting a new segment like this you create the expectation that moving forward these two sounds will be played. Then (3) hits on a white tick, too late for a drum and too early for a vocal. One could already conclude that something is wrong when second drum is missed and the first vocal comes in the form of a slider body. Slider body ends (3) on a synth and vocal which is then followed up by two vocals in the form off a 1/4 circle and a white tick slider. The synth is now a passive sound and we’re introduced to two active vocals, both in terms of timeline and placement on the grid. A new assessment can be made which is that vocals will be focused next. Moving on, the white tick slider 00:31:957 (1) – which ends on a red tick and is not followed up with a 1/4 vocal continues into a new white tick slider which is followed up with a 1/4 circle 00:33:137 (3). Pattern breaks once again and vocal loses some of its emphasize. Next up is a vocal that is represented with a white tick slider 00:33:306 (1) – but this time ends on a passive synth with no vocal attached to the end and vocal at 00:33:811 is left non-emphasized. General pattern and expectation disappears and a new ‘rhythm’ is introduced which are the 1/2 sliders that start on an empty beat 00:33:980 (2,3,4).
To conclude this/tl;dr it’s clearly shown that there is lacking a consistent rhythm. A lack of consistent rhythm makes it uncomfortable to play because expectations is changed constantly. This of course alters how the map plays and together with copy and pasted hitsounding it makes for a messy section. I have no idea how rhythm can be inconsistent when I've pretty much copypasted my rhythms throughout the map lol. It's almost impossible to emphasize vocals due to snapping issues, and because I want to create contrast with Spec's diff, this is the result. I see no issues with the simplification of the rhythm throughout this section.
00:47:295 – misses a 1/4 that has been consistently placed throughout the current section it’s in. This 1/4 is being left out to emphasize upcoming vocals 00:47:463 (2,3) – which is fine. Expectation is made that vocals are going to be the focused but upcoming sliders 00:48:137 (4,5,1) – are underemphasizing the vocals and miss leaves key vocal sounds out. This is pretty much the same issue as previous point and something that is important to note is that this is a rain; it does not have to be this oversimplified and standard difficulties such as easy, normal, hard uses more advanced rhythm in multiple places than this difficulty which is a rain (approximately an Insane). This one is my mistake, so I re-added the 1/4.
Kiai times and general high tempo sections are done way better than the slow parts. The slow parts that are after kiai’s and high tempos sections which I have not mentioned ‘suffers’ from the same thing which is inconsistent rhythm.
So, what I’m trying to mediate if you don’t get it already is that a lot of rhythm choices are questionable and are very inconsistent especially in slower parts. I would highly suggest a revisit and create a more structured rhythm which will both satisfy more people musically but also in gameplay since that too will feel more structured and thought-out. And you know I won’t accept my style argument if it’s not very well backed up. Also, for god’s sake adjust the hitsounds so it fits your rhythm, I don’t mean to be an ass but I can’t see how copy-pasted hitsounds that are not modified are getting qualified to begin with. :P
Concluding I think there are some things that need to change before qualifying and I think this shows it could have used a bit more polishing. Going forward I think both difficculties main thought is good and some few adjustments are needed. Also, if the argument is going to be made about hitsounding is hard, takes a long time or w/e the ranking criteria doesn't require advanced hitsounding.
The bpm is halved, so 3/8 is really 3/4.Ephemeral wrote:
in what universe is 3/8 a 'simplification'?
ishukan got nuked for playing around with weird snap shit, don't make the same mistake here plz
u could've just MkSent the hitobjects part of the code 👀MkGuh wrote:
https://puu.sh/xQZTV/047d11a770.osu
the MkTroubles he could have MkGot would have caused him a MkDisasterezek wrote:
u could've just MkSent the hitobjects part of the code 👀MkGuh wrote:
https://puu.sh/xQZTV/047d11a770.osu