Here we go!
Kisses wrote:
- I feel like the rule "1/2 usage is discouraged, but not disallowed" for Kantan should be a guideline instead, because reasons.
- Are 1/6s allowed in muzukashiis? granted I have not been around as much as the older members I have yet to see 1/6 objects in any muzukashii difficulty.
- Imho in futsuu it would go down better if the recommend hp was 6 or lower. I mostly see 6 or 7 in modern mapping
- similar to above, hp 7 or lower for Kantan
1. Noted the first suggestion, as it has been suggested twice already. We initially added this as a rule because we aim to actually enforce the "simplistic" concept upon the 1/2 patterns, as well as making the rest moment around them compulsory.
2. With the feedback I received from Muzukashii players, moderate BPM will allow monocolor 1/6 quads in Muzukashii. That BPM threshold is up to the intersubjective criteria of the mappers as well as the Nominators. 140 is simply an orientative value.
3. and 4. Noted.
tatatat wrote:
Seems good. I'd like some more concrete things about deviating from the normal slider velocity like using 1.2 or 1.6 instead of 1.4, and non-meta spreads such as (Kantan, Ura Kantan, Futsuu, Ura Futsuu), (Kantan, Futsuu, Muzukashii), and whether or not very fast or teleporting SVs are allowed if they are done in an intuitive way.
It is already very concrete. We strongly encourage 1.4.
About those spreads, that is up to the General criteria, not this one.
About non-meta spreads, such mapping isn't as meta to be considered to the RC rework. osu!standard had Advanced defined because they have it as a very established mapping characteristic, while stuff like Ura Kantan isn't really a thing in osu!taiko at the moment.
"Very fast or teleporting SVs" that is in the General taiko criteria draft which is bubbled currently.
frukoyurdakul wrote:
I have some things to say about the Muzukashii adjustment.
Combined those two, it's changing Muzukashii to Oni basically. In most of the cases, as far as I know, color changes on Muzukashii triplets are not allowed: especially not on 180 bpm or higher. If this kind of change is only on like ddddk or kkkkd with the usage of at least 2/1 break on each side of the pattern, it's understandable (since the guideline says that 5-plets are allowed). However, if ddkkd or kkddk is allowed, I think it's too much. So, this should be specified.
Now, when you look at the Oni adjustment, on the guideline it says: "Try to insert at least 1 rest moment which is 1/1 or longer after 16/1 to 20/1 of continuous mapping." Mathematically speaking, the lower limit of the breaks on Oni are higher than Muzukashii. I think the Muzukashii one should be changed to 16/1 to 20/1 as well.
Above that, I'm fine with all the other stuff.
Strongly disagree on the "changing Muzukashii to Oni basically" part. With these changes, we aimed to grant Muzukashii mappers way more leniency to map, as the current status quo of Muzukashii mapping is incredibly restrictive. We were always told off when we used a quintuplet, a non-monocolor triplet, etc. This isn't changing to Oni, where those patterns are coming in relatively long chains, as well as containing multiple color changes. In Muzukashii, they will have to be used sparingly and with rest moments around them. These changes are also aimed for
players: it is no secret that many players retire from the game after they see they cannot get the grasp from the jump Muzukashii → Oni. We think it's a step in the good direction.
About the 32/1, it was like that because the breaks were originally 2/1 instead of 3/2, so we forgot to change to 16 and 20. Noted for fixing.
Zpmzpm wrote:
Only problem:
I recall seeing something like this in a ranked Oni anyways, don't know if it's still allowed or not. But if it's not, it should be
That is most likely a very old Oni and we don't use those as reference. Furthermore, the nº of notes per pattern and difficulty are guidelines. If it is reasonable, it would be allowed.
zigizigiefe wrote:
I have concerns about current draft.
For Muzukashii:
Even if it's mono pattern, advanced players couldn't keep up with that speed, especially ddkk players. They need to practice with 1/4 triplets first.
For Futsuu:
It is appropriate but in my opinion, it should be allowed for only songs which have only 1/3 snapped notes.
Also, 1/2 usage in Kantan makes harder. Beginner players have to learn by playing Kantans which have clear and simple structure, after all.
I have to disagree there. I received all positive feedback on the 1/6 monocolor quads on moderate BPM maps. Even from ddkk players - regardless, the ruleset isn't tailored to any playstyle. It simply accounts for default settings.
Your Futsuu concern is not really a concern. It clearly says "Faster than 1/3". 1/3 isn't faster than 1/3
Again, we decided to be more lenient on Kantan regarding 1/2 because of the feedback we got from players. All of them could hit simple 1/2 patterns.
Electoz wrote:
Should be a guideline instead, this one isn't "objective" enough to be a rule in the first place.
Rules wrote:
Patterns on snaps faster than 1/[x] are disallowed.
Can we have like a clear threshold on which scale of BPM we should "adjust respectively" (like osu! catch)? For instance if there's a song that has an ambiguous BPM on which snaps should be used then it'll become problematic since the rule will become subjective.
Noted the first one, as shown in my response to Kisses.
As for the 2nd concern, the "rule" (which is simply a statement at the beginning of the draft) simply states that if you map something as double/half BPM, you must adjust accordingly. There is no BPM threshold (apart from that 180 one which is for guidelines), that statement simply urges you to adjust accordingly in case you map, say 120 BPM as 240.
Firmatorenio wrote:
I don't know, I very much like the usage of 1/4 in this set's futsuu. I really want to see more of such things encouraging players to learn to alternate even earlier, with such very simplistic doubles. And even though the set is sorta old now, I don't see a problem with its quality.
This would not encourage players to alternate, this would simply give them the bad habit of mashing through them (this is the feedback I got from players). So for the moment, I do think setting the upper limit to 1/3 is fairly appropriate.
Thank you kindly for your feedback guys
