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List of Beatmap Offsets for "Online Offset"

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11
Micha ohne el
38 posts
Joined January 2016
Topic Starter
Micha ohne el
Hi.
I have recently startet to make a list of all the Beatmaps I could find that had an Offset!
There is the Online Offset on some Maps which is supposed to correct Beatmaps' timings automatically... However I could still find a lot of Maps which were timed incorrectly! And that annoys me! D:

So here is my own list on wrongly timed Beatmaps! *click*

Please play the Maps from the spreadsheet and give feedback on the Offsets through a simple comment on this post.
You can request a Beatmap to be added into the spreadsheet as well.
This would help the whole community a lot, I think!

With this post I suggest that these Offsets could be added into the game through the Online Offset option once they are confirmed.

Also, I feel like I should say this. Obviously, all of this is for the good only. With this I do not want to say that those Maps in the spreadsheet are bad in any way other than their timing! Yes, I think that timing is very simple and I also think that an accurate timing should be the bare minimum for any Ranked Map. Still though, that does not mean the Maps in the sheet are bad as a whole!

Thank you! c:

Please give me all your feedback, I need it!
Anemic Witch
179 posts
Joined October 2015
Anemic Witch
Disagree about Airman and Above the Winter Moonlight. Both are timed correctly for me.
Micha ohne el
38 posts
Joined January 2016
Topic Starter
Micha ohne el

Master_chan wrote:

Disagree about Airman and Above the Winter Moonlight. Both are timed correctly for me.
huh. I'm actually not exactly sure about Above the Winter Moonlight, with Airman though, I definitely am! o:
Maybe play them with HalfTime and see if you still think they are correct. The Offset should get more obvious then.
Thanks for the reply though c:
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-

SALZKARTOFFEEEL wrote:

Master_chan wrote:

Disagree about Airman and Above the Winter Moonlight. Both are timed correctly for me.
huh. I'm actually not exactly sure about Above the Winter Moonlight, with Airman though, I definitely am! o:
Maybe play them with HalfTime and see if you still think they are correct. The Offset should get more obvious then.
Thanks for the reply though c:
They are both well timed.
Micha ohne el
38 posts
Joined January 2016
Topic Starter
Micha ohne el

[Taiga] wrote:

They are both well timed.
Well. I figured, this is not something you can easily discuss about, since it would probably just end up with two groups of people shouting "no, I'm right" at one another.
But I'm trying to convince you anyway.
Just go to the leaderboards for Can't Defeat Airman and watch some of the top plays, a lot of them tend to hit early! It is very easy to see in Cookiezi's and in MouseEasy's plays, but other people hit early as well. Some people don't, they probably used a Local Offset or accounted for the offset in their head.
I know for a fact that Cookiezi was not using a Local Offset because of this video and he was one of them who hit early all the time.

So yeah. I hope this is convincing enough.

I looked into Above the Winter Moonlight again, you're probably right on this one, it is timed correctly.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Well. I figured, this is not something you can easily discuss about, since it would probably just end up with two groups of people shouting "no, I'm right" at one another.
But I'm trying to convince you anyway.
Just go to the leaderboards for Can't Defeat Airman and watch some of the top plays, a lot of them tend to hit early! It is very easy to see in Cookiezi's and in MouseEasy's plays, but other people hit early as well. Some people don't, they probably used a Local Offset or accounted for the offset in their head.
I know for a fact that Cookiezi was not using a Local Offset because of this video and he was one of them who hit early all the time.

So yeah. I hope this is convincing enough.
This doesn't convince me.
I see same issue for 140-160 bpm maps for me where I constantly hit too early and I HEAR that as desync in hitsounds and music. Does that mean map is timed inproperly?
Airman HT as you suggested is for me perfectly timed, no issues at all, same problem with hitting too early because map is too slow.
Airman normally, just AR changed to 9 because I cannot read 10 - timed properly, no issues for me at all (except "give aim" which doesn't really count).

Hitting too early and too late is not 100% issue with a map. Cookiezi often tend to say that 200 bpm is too slow for him, high tier DT players also - it is one of reasons why they tend to hit too early.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Never judge timing based on HT as the warping of the music is fairly inaccurate when it comes to offset.
Also be careful when saying that the song is late because you're hitting early. Hitting early will often be a result of adrenaline and higher safety because there's more room to compensate for error when you're slightly ahead of the song. Hitting late is a better indicator but in the end a proper offset check in the editor should tell you whether something is timed correctly or not.
Micha ohne el
38 posts
Joined January 2016
Topic Starter
Micha ohne el

Endaris wrote:

Never judge timing based on HT as the warping of the music is fairly inaccurate when it comes to offset.
No it's not. I play a ton of HalfTime, sometimes maps I can't pass/FC otherwise, sometimes maps I can pass/FC. But that's subjective, so here are facts for you:
osu! uses the avcodec-library to decode, encode, play and modify Songs (and Hitsounds). The avcodec-library is built to be as accurate as possible and to maintain as much aspects of the source after decoding/encoding as possible.

Endaris wrote:

Also be careful when saying that the song is late because you're hitting early. Hitting early will often be a result of adrenaline and higher safety because there's more room to compensate for error when you're slightly ahead of the song. Hitting late is a better indicator[...]
Uhm. In fact, you have the most room to compensate for errors if you are hitting with the correct timing since the 'buffer' is on both sides of the Hit Error Bar – meaning you can hit early or late if you average out in the center of the Hit Error Bar. However there is only a buffer for hitting late if you are generally being early.
In addition: when I'm just playing a Map to check for it's offset, I don't get any adrenaline into my blood. Also, I'm actively trying not to hit early no matter how much of a room for error I might get o.o

Endaris wrote:

[...]but in the end a proper offset check in the editor should tell you whether something is timed correctly or not.
Yes, I mostly agree. It can sometimes be difficult to hear wit the standard metronome sounds, but a lot of the times it should be fairly obvious by checking the editor.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Although the library is built to do that, it is impossible to do a slowdown without messing with the song's information if you don't want to change the pitch which obviously doesn't happen with HT.
Considering audible low frequencies start at around 20 Hz you can easily get inaccuracies in the lower pitch areas that number several ms. That is simple physical limit to how accurate you can replay a source slowed down without pitch change from what I know. Not to mention that a slowdown in itself (even with pitchchange and no accuracy loss) leads to a different perception that can lead to a different hitbehaviour as well.

Also, hitting early is always favorable if you are capable of reading the map. Good players won't suddenly start hitting earlier and get 100 and then 50s and then notelock. The majority of mistakes in any kind of highly demanding sports consist of the following: You are doing something inefficient and lose power or time. Being early means that you compensate for the possible occurence of such inefficiencies in advance.
Micha ohne el
38 posts
Joined January 2016
Topic Starter
Micha ohne el

Endaris wrote:

Although the library is built to do that, it is impossible to do a slowdown without messing with the song's information if you don't want to change the pitch which obviously doesn't happen with HT.
Considering audible low frequencies start at around 20 Hz you can easily get inaccuracies in the lower pitch areas that number several ms. That is simple physical limit to how accurate you can replay a source slowed down without pitch change from what I know. Not to mention that a slowdown in itself (even with pitchchange and no accuracy loss) leads to a different perception that can lead to a different hitbehaviour as well.

Also, hitting early is always favorable if you are capable of reading the map. Good players won't suddenly start hitting earlier and get 100 and then 50s and then notelock. The majority of mistakes in any kind of highly demanding sports consist of the following: You are doing something inefficient and lose power or time. Being early means that you compensate for the possible occurence of such inefficiencies in advance.
alright. Sorry for the inactivity I guess.

Instead of picking apart your whole comment piece by piece and proving you wrong that way, I'm just going to tell you one thing:
Most maps' timings are done on a playback speed of 50–25%. If you were correct with what you are saying, then most ranked maps in the game would be wrongly timed and only appear to be timing accurately when played with HalfTime. Which is not the case, obviously.
Please don't tell me something like "Oh, but the timing is only done roughly with a speed manipulator, the proper timing is done later on 100%!" because that is simply wrong. In fact, doing the rough timing on 100% and any finer adjustments on a lower playback speed is the norm.

The first release of FFmpeg was published near the end of the year 2000, I truly believe that FFmpeg have worked hard since then to improve their codec and software to near perfection.
Full Tablet
2,543 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet

SALZKARTOFFEEEL wrote:

Endaris wrote:

Although the library is built to do that, it is impossible to do a slowdown without messing with the song's information if you don't want to change the pitch which obviously doesn't happen with HT.
Considering audible low frequencies start at around 20 Hz you can easily get inaccuracies in the lower pitch areas that number several ms. That is simple physical limit to how accurate you can replay a source slowed down without pitch change from what I know. Not to mention that a slowdown in itself (even with pitchchange and no accuracy loss) leads to a different perception that can lead to a different hitbehaviour as well.

Also, hitting early is always favorable if you are capable of reading the map. Good players won't suddenly start hitting earlier and get 100 and then 50s and then notelock. The majority of mistakes in any kind of highly demanding sports consist of the following: You are doing something inefficient and lose power or time. Being early means that you compensate for the possible occurence of such inefficiencies in advance.
alright. Sorry for the inactivity I guess.

Instead of picking apart your whole comment piece by piece and proving you wrong that way, I'm just going to tell you one thing:
Most maps' timings are done on a playback speed of 50–25%. If you were correct with what you are saying, then most ranked maps in the game would be wrongly timed and only appear to be timing accurately when played with HalfTime. Which is not the case, obviously.
Please don't tell me something like "Oh, but the timing is only done roughly with a speed manipulator, the proper timing is done later on 100%!" because that is simply wrong. In fact, doing the rough timing on 100% and any finer adjustments on a lower playback speed is the norm.

The first release of FFmpeg was published near the end of the year 2000, I truly believe that FFmpeg have worked hard since then to improve their codec and software to near perfection.
The algorithm used by the osu! editor to change the playback speed does cause some inaccuracies. Basically, when you slow down music, sounds are repeated, so sounds might not start exactly when they are heard when slowed down (this is most noticeable in short transient sounds).

Most ranked maps aren't perfectly timed for many reasons.

Many songs do not follow play notes with a perfect rhythm. The usual thing to do in this case is mapping the most perfect rhythm possible that approximates the song.

Because of the sound engine the game uses, hitsounds sound in average 5ms late compared to the music if the notes are placed exactly when they sound in the music. Because of the sound engine, it's not possible to make hitsounds sound at precise times (the hitsounds can only start sounding at the end of 10ms-wide time intervals instead).

Hitsounds might sound later than that if they have a silent beginning or a long attack.

Other causes of delay make timing based on things other than sound (comparing hitsounds of perfectly hit notes according to the game, to the music) even less precise.

Matching hitsounds to the music via hearing is highly influenced by the subjective evaluation bias.

The most precise method of fine-tuning timing is recording the game audio when playing the map with Auto mod, and then checking the soundwave of the recording for delays between the notes in the music compared to the hitsounds; but even that way the accuracy is limited by the things mentioned before.
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