penoreri - Preserved Valkyria · forum

timing
yeah prob change that redline so its set to like 48080, current ranked sets dont seem to be accurate
(and then change 00:47:550 - so its set to 113 for proper beat aligningstuffs)

hitsounding
its like realllllllllllly softwhistlespammy, to the point of absurdity, you can really tone things down for a nicer playfeeling, like only whistling the nc'd objects in the 00:48:071 - section, only whistling the sliderheads in the 00:07:566 - section, stuff like that
would also like it if you didnt whistle entire streams but at least i can understand that choice more

top
00:30:889 - fix break extension
00:55:434 (1,2,1,2,3,4) - current arrange is making 00:55:434 (1,2,1) - feel like a grouping of 3 beats which obviously isn't what you're aiming for, try an arrange more like https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10217417
01:07:724 - dont think you should lower volume so much, the whole reason this is a slider like this is bc you're mapping this gracenote, takes away from that if the hitsound is so quiet

sharkie
00:28:469 (1,2,3,4) - really think you should rework this rhythming so 00:28:598 - is clickable since it's the first actual beat, would be much more naturalfeeling in play and follow the song much better

will make the Big Post™ soon

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2018-02-10T03:17:08+00:00

Fixed all

Sharkie

343 posts

Joined May 2014

Sharkie 2018-02-10T03:48:57+00:00

UndeadCapulet wrote:
sharkie
00:28:469 (1,2,3,4) - really think you should rework this rhythming so 00:28:598 - is clickable since it's the first actual beat, would be much more naturalfeeling in play and follow the song much better
K so I changed the rhythm but it's not really the first strong beat, while 00:28:598 - is the first strong beat of the melody, the strong bass drum part is on the third beat of that measure. So the rhythm is not random and it does follow the song. Additionally, 00:27:985 (4) - I want to keep this slider to keep the rhythm simplistic.

im pkgay for pkk

osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: audio.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 82434
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.5
Mode: 0
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

[Editor]
Bookmarks: 80730,91707,122252
DistanceSpacing: 1.3
BeatDivisor: 3
GridSize: 4
TimelineZoom: 1.8

[Metadata]
Title:Preserved Valkyria
TitleUnicode:Preserved Valkyria
Artist:penoreri
ArtistUnicode:ぺのれり
Creator:Kroytz
Version:Sharkie's EXHAUST
Source:SOUND VOLTEX III GRAVITY WARS
Tags:sdvx konami arcade championship kac song contest Renumi Akitoshi pkk Sharkie Zexous Kawashiro Fushimi Rio
BeatmapID:1366189
BeatmapSetID:644642

[Difficulty]
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CircleSize:3.8
OverallDifficulty:7
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SliderTickRate:1

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501,137,111889,2,0,L|504:53,1,83.9999974365235,8|0,3:2|3:2,0:0:0:0:
282,257,112161,2,0,P|241:249|201:233,1,83.9999974365235,10|0,3:2|3:2,0:0:0:0:
283,277,112434,5,8,3:2:0:0:
410,152,112571,2,0,L|413:68,2,83.9999974365235,2|8|0,3:2|3:2|3:2,0:0:0:0:
408,359,112979,2,0,L|324:362,1,83.9999974365235,10|0,3:2|3:2,0:0:0:0:
154,119,113252,2,0,L|238:122,1,83.9999974365235,10|0,3:2|3:2,0:0:0:0:
289,258,113525,5,14,3:2:0:0:
143,313,113661,1,2,3:2:0:0:
305,255,113798,1,10,3:2:0:0:
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240,25,114207,1,2,3:2:0:0:
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281,156,114616,5,10,3:2:0:0:
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116,206,115161,1,10,3:2:0:0:
116,206,115298,1,0,3:2:0:0:
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256,332,115707,6,0,L|88:323,1,167.999994873047,14|10,3:2|3:2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,116116,2,0,L|423:183,1,167.999994873047,4|0,3:2|3:2,0:0:0:0:
256,52,116525,1,14,3:2:0:0:
235,50,116593,1,0,0:0:0:0:
214,49,116661,1,8,3:2:0:0:
193,47,116729,1,8,3:2:0:0:
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3,124,116934,1,2,3:2:0:0:
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59,336,117343,1,2,3:2:0:0:
172,224,117480,1,2,3:2:0:0:
22,116,117616,2,0,L|15:32,1,83.9999974365235,2|2,3:2|3:2,0:0:0:0:
172,135,117889,6,0,L|219:138,3,46.6666666666667,4|4|4|4,3:0|3:0|3:0|3:0,0:0:0:0:
264,53,118343,1,4,3:0:0:0:
264,53,118434,6,0,B|299:46|335:53|335:53|373:37|373:37|425:38|470:65|470:65|484:128|443:170|446:173|450:177|413:214|426:296,1,450.799984866944,6|0,3:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2018-02-10T04:10:51+00:00

Updated :nyab:

UndeadCapulet

1,100 posts

Joined April 2013

UndeadCapulet 2018-02-11T06:54:28+00:00

trial bn btw

the jump arranges like 00:54:071 (1,2,1,2) - , 01:42:071 (1,2,1,2) - , etc. are logical for me since they function as a nice transition between the melodylines. clear difference between the power of 00:54:080 (1) - and 00:51:898 (1) - as well, etc.

00:55:707 (1,2,3,4) - seems to have changed after my mod to fit more w/ maridi's request, unless i'm misreading things

dont think 01:25:980 (1,2) - is overexaggerated bc they're pretty strong piano beats, its nice to keep the spacing up to match with the fastfeeling motions of the earlier sliders. combo after that is a similar thing, plus it contrasts nicely with the spacingdrop at 01:26:807 (4,1,2,3) - .

01:53:261 (1,2) - is okay bc its a clear difference from the previous stacking arranges and it leads into 01:53:534 (1) - which kroytz thinks is much more important than emphasizing the higher pitched piano

maridius pretty much admits in his veto post that stuff like 00:50:116 (2,1) - vs 00:50:943 (3,1) - , etc. is ok, its a wellknown thing that symmetry is innately less emphasized bc the player innately understands where the objects are

anything not responded to was either fixed after maridius' or my mod, so should be ok

so weird seeing people complain about symmetry when its pretty much the most established "acceptable jump arranges" since the dawn of time lol

uh dont think i need to respond to previous veto-y posts so here's the re
(once again @qat lemme know if i need to do more)

Mir

osu! Alumni

2,152 posts

Joined July 2016

Mir 2018-02-20T20:16:24+00:00

k nvm idc anymore lol

unvetoed officially

Doormat

2,050 posts

Joined September 2013

Doormat 2018-03-18T06:00:46+00:00

since mir rescinded his veto, it should be all right for me to renominate this. (maridius's veto was towards kisses' nomination, so it shouldn't affect me based on discussion with other bns/qats from a few weeks ago).

that being said, i think that the map should be given a shot at qualified at least for now; while there are those that disagree with the symmetrical patterning of the map i think it's a pretty novel idea that works pretty well given the mapper's stated intentions in this thread.

Myxo

osu! Alumni

3,103 posts

Joined December 2012

Myxo 2018-03-22T19:21:23+00:00

[highest]

00:04:953 (1,2) - large 1/4 jump feels out of place in calm intro, would be nice to nerf this one a bit
00:19:953 (1) - how are players going to guess that this stream is 1/6? there are no visual clues, because the spacing of the 1/4 streams that came before was varying and is not discernible from this one, and the AR doesn't help either because it's not low BPM. you could introduce this stream with a short repeated slider on 1/6 to introduce the player to the new snap
00:38:534 (1) - same here
00:41:824 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1) - this is a good introduction because the 4 notes (either short stream or stack) make the snap obvious, something like this would also work for the ones i pointed out earlier if you can get it to work

[rio's]

a lot of streams in this map have very underwhelming hitsounding, because you are just using drum hitnormals to highlight sounds which have almost no audible difference to soft hitnormals when the music is loud. examples: 01:30:693 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 01:35:057 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - 01:38:330 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - and more. would be nice if you can do something with drum additions or normal sampleset there.

00:40:856 (3,4,5,1) - why is there no hitsounding to support the drums here, sounds empty
00:42:308 (4,5,1,2) - same here
01:12:489 - the pause from here on feels too long, since there is still piano beats in the music that you are usually following. if you don't wanna follow the piano sounds here 01:13:170 - you could try following the echo at 01:12:761 - and 01:13:034 -

i'd like to see the 1/6 introduction in the highest diff and the hitsounding in rio's diff to get fixed before this goes to rank

UndeadCapulet

1,100 posts

Joined April 2013

UndeadCapulet 2018-03-22T20:12:22+00:00

qah wrote:
00:19:953 (1) - how are players going to guess that this stream is 1/6? there are no visual clues, because the spacing of the 1/4 streams that came before was varying and is not discernible from this one, and the AR doesn't help either because it's not low BPM. you could introduce this stream with a short repeated slider on 1/6 to introduce the player to the new snap

anyone that can play an 8* map can easily make the distinction between 1/4 and 1/6 streams regardless of spacing, bpm, or whatever. and lots of players below this skill level can as well. and 155bpm is definitely low bpm for 1/4 streams. introducing with a reverse slider would be unfitting of the big emphasis change that happens here and is completely unnecessary for reading purposes.

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2018-03-23T08:07:56+00:00

Approach circle density is a huuuuge visual cue in high bpm maps. Like you're literally getting 1.5x as many approach circles. It's a really obvious visual cue that top players can see almost instantly. You're not looking at the object you're clicking on at a speed like this, you're always looking at the next few ones, this is why approach circles are a good visual cue. Higher AR and higher BPM also enhance this effect too, mathematically. AR narrows down the window, BPM determines how many approach circles can be seen at a given AR.

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2018-03-23T16:40:30+00:00

[highest]

00:04:953 (1,2) - large 1/4 jump feels out of place in calm intro, would be nice to nerf this one a bit It's already been nerfed maybe two or three times now. The main reason for these jumps to exist as they do here so early is to act as a prelude for the kind of 1/4 jumping that will happen before the break. Consider it an introduction as to what kind of things the map will provide.
00:19:953 (1) - how are players going to guess that this stream is 1/6? there are no visual clues, because the spacing of the 1/4 streams that came before was varying and is not discernible from this one, and the AR doesn't help either because it's not low BPM. you could introduce this stream with a short repeated slider on 1/6 to introduce the player to the new snap
00:38:534 (1) - same here I can't really add more to this than what UC and Monstrata have already said. What I can say is that variable DS streams will always make discerning streams of different snaps a reading challenge, but to anyone who bothers to try and play this diff should at least have enough experience in themselves to be able to distinguish 1/4 and 1/6 based on approach circle density. The only way I can see this being more readable (which isn't my concern btw) is to make a slider, but as UC is aware, it is really unfitting for what I wanted here.

i'd like to see the 1/6 introduction in the highest diff and the hitsounding in rio's diff to get fixed before this goes to rank Basically you're saying make a slider transition to distinguish the 1/4s and 1/6s apart but this goes against everything that was intended here.

Myxo

osu! Alumni

3,103 posts

Joined December 2012

Myxo 2018-03-23T22:54:37+00:00

alright i accept those points, after talking to top players about it. things on rio's diff still stand for now

Fushimi Rio

Fushimi Rio 2018-03-23T23:39:21+00:00

Myxomatosis wrote:
[rio's]

a lot of streams in this map have very underwhelming hitsounding, because you are just using drum hitnormals to highlight sounds which have almost no audible difference to soft hitnormals when the music is loud. examples: 01:30:693 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 01:35:057 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - 01:38:330 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - and more. would be nice if you can do something with drum additions or normal sampleset there.
most of these samples were used for reflecting the pitch changes, and to make a ...momentum? idk how to describe it, just to make the stream sounds gradually more powerful, which fits the pitch well.
and except the last example. it is because that stream was actually following a new drum track.
besides hitsounds may have different effect with different equipment. because to my earphone these drum samples works well...

00:40:856 (3,4,5,1) - why is there no hitsounding to support the drums here, sounds empty yeah, kind of empty. i tried the drum sample but it feels overemphasized to me. i guess different ppl got different standards then.
00:42:308 (4,5,1,2) - same here save above
01:12:489 - the pause from here on feels too long, since there is still piano beats in the music that you are usually following. if you don't wanna follow the piano sounds here 01:13:170 - you could try following the echo at 01:12:761 - and 01:13:034 - adding something to following the echo could be a good idea. if Krotyz thinks it's necessary i'll make this change.
i'd like to see the 1/6 introduction in the highest diff and the hitsounding in rio's diff to get fixed before this goes to rank

and sorry for my stupid caps

Myxo

osu! Alumni

3,103 posts

Joined December 2012

Myxo 2018-03-25T00:15:22+00:00

just to be safe: are you using default skin's samples to judge the hitsounding? because i don't think you can really hear the difference between default soft and drum hitnormal at this volume, but okay

also, related to the last point: if you think it'd be better with the echo mapped, why do you need to ask kroytz?

-Mo-

Nomination Assessment Team

957 posts

Joined December 2012

-Mo- 2018-03-25T00:23:17+00:00

DQing for the ongoing discussion regarding the hitsounds in Rio's MAXIMUM. Ideally that last point should also be addressed if you agree with it.

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2018-03-25T00:46:54+00:00

Did this really get DQ’d over a hitsound? and no I don’t think adding a hitsound for echos is necessary. Rio said he wanted to do hitsounding on his own as he has his own style for it that’s much different from mine and I’m like okay brother, do as you wish. He’s competent enough to know what he’s doing and this song has a lot of avenues for creative hitsounding than just the typical 1:1 stuff. Regardless of the volumes, softs and drums are by definition different, just because they aren’t audibly noticeable doesn’t mean they aren’t different from each other.

@-Mo - ??

Gandalphf

16 posts

Joined April 2015

Gandalphf 2018-03-25T01:07:15+00:00

-Mo- wrote:
DQing for the ongoing discussion regarding the hitsounds in Rio's MAXIMUM. Ideally that last point should also be addressed if you agree with it.

Are you fucking kidding me? what the fucking fuck

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2018-03-25T01:14:14+00:00

I’ve seen some bad DQs but man, this is probably the worst I’ve seen yet lmao. Hardly a discussion even going on. I’ll look to get this renominated immediately. Thanks for your ‘concerns’ tho xd

alice soft

215 posts

Joined May 2013

alice soft 2018-03-25T01:15:57+00:00

^lmao just chill and talk the hitsound part out with concerned peeps, fix it or not, then requalify and rank. Why you being a crybaby like you wanted it ranked on your mother's bday or smth if it can still get ranked some days later.

Artorias_DELETED

Artorias_DELETED 2018-03-25T02:28:10+00:00

>DQing a map for no reason other than a subjective "ongoing discussion" with no solid or presented reason. wat.

Len

Beatmap Nominator

2,817 posts

Joined June 2012

Len 2018-03-25T02:46:02+00:00

thats why i like modv1 honestly. hard to explain and write opinions about map and somthing probs If its modv2 :>

gl on reranking, i hope it gets ranked asap!

Renumi

907 posts

Joined July 2012

Renumi 2018-03-25T03:23:37+00:00

third time's the charm right

Zexous

713 posts

Joined July 2012

Zexous 2018-03-25T03:38:14+00:00

lol so real 2k18

Myxo

osu! Alumni

3,103 posts

Joined December 2012

Myxo 2018-03-25T09:15:40+00:00

what's unjustified here now? rio said they want to fix the last point, also the map was on the 7th day and the hitsounding still needs to be discussed further. stop treating disqualifications like the end of the world

GaterRaider

4 posts

Joined April 2010

GaterRaider 2018-03-25T09:26:41+00:00

Myxomatosis wrote:
stop treating disqualifications like the end of the world

said the QAT looooooool

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2018-03-25T10:40:29+00:00

I don’t mind DQs, but this is over a hitsound lmao. Let that sink for a minute

Fia

Fia 2018-03-25T12:00:33+00:00

um, if you guys don't like this disqualification
01:34:716 (4) - you missed hitnormal here noobrio

Fushimi Rio

Fushimi Rio 2018-03-25T12:17:30+00:00

@Myxomatosis:
Ofc I could hear the difference. I just thought drum sample would be nice in these places.
And for most changes before I would discuss with Kroytz in game. This time I did not yet so I'd like to know his opinion then.

@PinkHeart
fixed and fk u noob

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2018-03-26T03:34:23+00:00

Changes were made to Rio's hitsounding
Ready to go again I guess :p

Myxo

osu! Alumni

3,103 posts

Joined December 2012

Myxo 2018-03-31T20:25:06+00:00

alright then, still think the hitsounding sounds empty at those parts but if this is really your intention it's not a big deal for me.

Shinx

26 posts

Joined August 2017

Shinx 2018-04-01T23:27:48+00:00

how many times has this map been disqualified lmao

Doormat

2,050 posts

Joined September 2013

Doormat 2018-04-05T17:13:10+00:00

ok, now that it seems the vetoing party is satisfied (to an extent) with the explanation of the hitsounding (and/or lack thereof in some cases), and since there's no other ongoing discussion regarding the map, i'm gonna go ahead and rebubble this so we can all move on with our lives

-Mo-

Nomination Assessment Team

957 posts

Joined December 2012

-Mo- 2018-04-06T15:49:54+00:00

Renumi's BASIC
00:18:018 (2,3) - Spacing looks like 1/1.

Sharkie's EXHAUST
- 00:41:727 (1) - Sounds better ending it on 1/6 to me. Same goes for Infinite diff.
- 01:28:716 (2) - Whistle on the tail doesn't seem necessary to me.

Kawa's GRAVITY
- 00:51:079 (1,2,3) - Kinda feels weird to have this be the odd one out of all the triangles in this section. I think you could keep the pattern consistent and have correct spacing if you stack it ontop of the 1 of the previous triangle.

- 01:43:443 (1,2,3) - Similar thing.

Sharkie

343 posts

Joined May 2014

Sharkie 2018-04-07T02:48:17+00:00

-Mo- wrote:
Sharkie's EXHAUST
- 00:41:727 (1) - Sounds better ending it on 1/6 to me. Same goes for Infinite diff.
Done
- 01:28:716 (2) - Whistle on the tail doesn't seem necessary to me.
Done

Last edited by Sharkie 2018-04-07T02:48:26+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Zexous

713 posts

Joined July 2012

Zexous 2018-04-08T18:38:48+00:00

-Mo- wrote:
- 00:41:727 (1) - Sounds better ending it on 1/6 to me. Same goes for Infinite diff.

you can change it for me kro

Kawashiro

1,522 posts

Joined April 2012

Kawashiro 2018-04-10T09:34:24+00:00

fixed, and changed some weird stuffs

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2018-04-10T10:04:55+00:00

renumi let me apply for him
zexous let me apply for him

updated everything now~

-Mo-

Nomination Assessment Team

957 posts

Joined December 2012

-Mo- 2018-04-20T13:32:47+00:00

Recheck

Sharkie's EXHAUST
- 01:19:580 (1) - SV change might actually a bit too much compared to what's happening in the music, and since it looks similar length to 01:18:625 (1) it might be a bit misleading. Easiest fix would be to up the SV and then use like a more distinct shape to mark it as different.

Kawa's GRAVITY
- 01:34:580 (2,3,4) - Would lower spacing so it's clearer as 1/4 to make a better transition from the 1/3s.

Rio's MAXIMUM
- 01:56:943 (1) - Don't think I like having this in the middle of the pentagon actually, since obscuring it like this and placing it under makes it feel like it's part of the stream. I feel like placing it above at about (256, 40) would be better for spacing and visual emphasis.

Should be okay after this.

Fushimi Rio

Fushimi Rio 2018-04-22T03:55:48+00:00

sure

osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: audio.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 82443
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.3
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LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

[Editor]
Bookmarks: 19953,20727,29243,55980,56798,63752,64434,80730,90207,91707,94980,95252,96752,97161,97843,98252,108071,109161
DistanceSpacing: 0.65
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 4
TimelineZoom: 2

[Metadata]
Title:Preserved Valkyria
TitleUnicode:Preserved Valkyria
Artist:penoreri
ArtistUnicode:ぺのれり
Creator:Kroytz
Version:Rio's MAXIMUM
Source:SOUND VOLTEX III GRAVITY WARS
Tags:sdvx konami arcade championship kac song contest Renumi Akitoshi pkk Sharkie Zexous Kawashiro Fushimi Rio
BeatmapID:1366188
BeatmapSetID:644642

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:6
CircleSize:3.8
OverallDifficulty:9.3
ApproachRate:9.6
SliderMultiplier:3.19999990463257
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
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2,44863,46580
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//Storyboard Layer 1 (Fail)
//Storyboard Layer 2 (Pass)
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//Storyboard Sound Samples

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Kawashiro

1,522 posts

Joined April 2012

Kawashiro 2018-04-30T05:25:21+00:00

kk

fxd

osu file format v14

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Title:Preserved Valkyria
TitleUnicode:Preserved Valkyria
Artist:penoreri
ArtistUnicode:ぺのれり
Creator:Kroytz
Version:Kawa's GRAVITY
Source:SOUND VOLTEX III GRAVITY WARS
Tags:sdvx konami arcade championship kac song contest Renumi Akitoshi pkk Sharkie Zexous Kawashiro Fushimi Rio
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264,176,96352,1,2,3:2:0:0:
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432,352,109443,1,8,3:2:0:0:
284,212,109580,6,0,L|384:204,1,90,2|8,3:2|3:2,0:0:0:0:
308,48,109853,1,0,3:2:0:0:
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184,352,110262,1,8,3:2:0:0:
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488,256,111216,1,0,3:2:0:0:
264,96,111352,6,0,L|271:6,1,90,10|0,3:2|3:2,0:0:0:0:
120,240,111625,1,8,3:2:0:0:
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400,288,112034,1,0,3:2:0:0:
264,192,112170,6,0,L|271:102,1,90,10|0,3:2|3:2,0:0:0:0:
120,336,112443,1,8,3:2:0:0:
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440,320,113534,6,0,L|344:316,1,90,14|2,3:2|3:2,0:0:0:0:
76,328,113807,1,10,3:2:0:0:
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100,240,114216,1,2,3:2:0:0:
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124,152,114625,1,10,3:2:0:0:
512,56,114761,6,0,L|416:52,1,90,2|10,3:2|3:2,0:0:0:0:
148,64,115034,1,2,3:2:0:0:
228,356,115170,5,14,3:2:0:0:
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284,28,115580,1,0,3:2:0:0:
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292,308,115989,1,10,3:2:0:0:
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244,132,116807,1,8,3:2:0:0:
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332,312,118080,1,4,3:0:0:0:
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512,384,118443,5,6,3:2:0:0:
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