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posted
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on Sonntag, 8. Oktober 2017 at 15:09:07

Artist: Draw the Emotional
Title: Endless cycle of rebirth & We cannot get out of here forever
Source: 東方神霊廟 ~ Ten Desires.
Tags: 東方Project Touhou ZUN Team Shanghai Alice Can't Cant ゆよゆっぺ Yuyoyuppe DtE TH13 TH 13 Shinreibyou Divine Spirit Mausoleum TD 聖徳伝説 Shoutoku Legend ~ True Administrator Stage 6 Boss Toyosatomimi no Miko Ghost and your heart カドチ Kadochi YYYP-0007 Comiket 81 C81 Merami Teto Meramipop めらみぽっぷ Foreground Eclipse FE Seated with Liquor YPFE-0001 C83 83 Ayyri Noffy
BPM: 180
Filesize: 13235kb
Play Time: 05:01
Difficulties Available:
  1. Ayyri's Samsara (5,7 stars, 1123 notes)
  2. Reincarnation (4,36 stars, 1256 notes)


Download: Draw the Emotional - Endless cycle of rebirth & We cannot get out of here forever
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
PLAY STANDARD AND TAIKO MODE WITH STORYBOARD

Both modes contain player-activated events! (Seriously play it)


1st Ranked!

Standard by Ayyri!!!!
Taiko by Nepuri!!!!
Storyboard by Noffy and ideas by Ayyri.

Timing drafted by Nepuri/Ayyri; refined by GoldenWolf! <3

<3 For everyone contributing to this set!
posted
mod for mom

  1. 00:28:066 (5) - might be a good idea to make this a 1/4 slider, the end could map the stopping of the note at 00:28:149 - , and help with reading the rhythm here, a sudden 3/4 pause can be confusing to play
  2. 01:27:966 (4,1,1) - not a lot of spacing between those despite being really stronger than 01:27:132 (4,5) - for ex
  3. 01:33:299 (8,1,1) - ^
  4. 00:53:149 (4,1) - the previous ones were stacked together, why not those
  5. 00:58:483 (6,1) - , 01:01:149 (3,1) - ^


quite short as expected, if i could play i'd probably have found more but welp
posted
hey I'm here

Taiko
⬦ Uncheck widescreen support, doesn't do anything.
⬥ 00:06:816 (8,9) - Not timed correctly, both notes are late.
⬦ 01:04:149 - This sv is quite overlapped, change it so the 4 notes before it ease into the change.
⬥ 01:48:132 (138,141) - Why don't these also have finishers? Same cymbal noise as before.
⬦ 02:47:632 (61) - Consider making this d just to avoid using kdkdkdk xd
⬥ 03:49:965 - Although it may sound like the same thing over and over, you can put a little variety in section like these. Instead of kkd kkd kkd kkdkk it can be kkd k ddkkd kkdkk, or something of the like (personally I think the repetition is annoying and boring but that's just me).
⬦ 04:54:799 (455,456,457) - These 3 notes are almost 1/8th early, the ddk after is fine though (only about 1/16th).
⬥ 03:58:799 (210) - Change to d to break the kkd cycle, if you're following the vocal loosely, they still change enough to change the note.
⬦ 03:53:465 - Make the volume quieter here, 100% is way too loud for a sparse, quiet area.
That's all I saw ^^
posted

Alheak wrote:

mod for mom


i think there's a little delay on soft-hitclap, i removed it
you should probably enable epilepsy warning since there are a few flashes throughout the map and especially because of 03:14:799 -

00:20:149 (5,6,1) - i feel like you could've spaced these a bit more to go with the higher pitch, especially the red slider
00:29:233 - aren't you missing a note here? a circle here could add some emphasis to 00:29:316 (4) -
01:02:816 (1,2,1,2) - can you space these out to differentiate those from 00:40:816 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - ?
01:21:483 (2,3) - NC those since you seem to NC every downbeat here
01:40:132 (1,2,3) - weird to have those stacked when they're just as intense as 01:41:132 (1,2,3,4) - for example
01:52:132 (1) - i think a slider would fit the guitar better here
01:52:632 - missing a circle?
02:08:799 (3,4) - i know these are placed like that for patterning but they're REALLY far apart
02:27:799 - it feels pretty awkward to have a 1/1 pause here so soon after the last one considering the previous rhythms in the kiai, you could add a circle here since there's still a piano note on this tick
02:35:965 (1,3) - i suggest you swap those NCs to show more relation between 02:36:132 (3,4) - 02:36:632 (1,2) -
02:38:965 (1,2,3) -02:45:632 (1,2,3) - i don't understand why these are more spaced, the instruments don't seem to be any stronger here?
02:51:299 (2,3,4) - i think this rhythm could fit the vocals at 02:51:465 - better
02:52:882 - aren't you missing a guitar note here?
03:09:632 (1) - it wouldn't hurt to start this 1/4 beat earlier since the vocals start on 03:09:465 (5) -
03:22:799 (7,2) - i really don't think that overlap fits here because you have no overlaps in that section also i really dislike this kind of overlaps ):<
04:28:132 (1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2) - looks familiar :eyes:
04:53:465 (1) - why not place a circle on the downbeat and start the spinner 1/4 beat later? there's a pretty strong crash cymbal on it

cute
posted
ajsjipasf

ayyri's

00:22:983 (1) - It'd be nice to have a clickable note there to emphasize the beat, rather than map it with a slider end
00:23:483 (3,4) - Move 4 somewhere near x:219 y:115, this way it's a smoother transition and puts emphasis on the next combo
00:25:316 (6,7) - A bit nit-picky, but 7 is slightly overlapping 4. I think it's be better to stack 7 on the slider end of 6 so it's cleaner. Also, you get more emphasis going into 00:26:816 (1) -
00:31:815 (7,1) - Slight overlap (I know, nitpicky)
00:33:149 (4,5) - I really liked what you did here, it brings out the sudden stop in the music. Unfortunately, you did not keep this pattern going and mapped this sound different ways previously. I think it'd be much better for you to map the rhythms for this consistently rather than with variations!
00:42:816 (1,2,3) - Not only does this seem like a really awkward movement, it clutters a bit with previous sliders
00:43:816 (1) - ALSO, why place this slider here when you have literally an entire empty grid quadrant below it to use?! Don't let all your notes clutter into one space, encourage movement through all the grid space!
01:02:816 (1,2,3,4) - Nice symmetry c:

Just a smol mod, the rest seems fine. I didn't really dig too deep into the map contents since I know NOTHING about storyboarding, just the mapping. Some smol parts are a bit messy and lack structure but it's nothing that self checking can't fix! oko bye
posted
hi, some suggestions here, hope they aren't that crappy

d=don k=kat D=Big Don K=Big Kat

reincarnation
01:04:149 (170) - change to k? You can hear that the sound is higher, so I don't really think d is fitting
01:48:132 (138) - change to D? Here's a drumsound, so I don't know why you put a kat there
01:49:465 (141) - ^ same as above
03:49:715 (180) - k here? The drum sounds, that you're trying to emphasize already starts at 03:49:632 (179) -
04:13:465 (237,239,240,241,242) - change all to D? You can hear, that the drums are "heavier" (geez I can't express myself lol) than the cymbals, so I think it would be good to emphasize them, instead of the cymbals
04:14:132 (238) - change to k? I don't hear a sound that could be emphasized with a don
05:00:132 (1) - change to D? As I mentioned earlier, I think it would be a good idea to emphasize the drum instead of the cymbal here


Overall, I really like this map, I wish you good luck :D
posted
C G

[Taiko]
00:07:649 (10,11,12) - (10) ist imo definitiv tiefer als 00:07:177 (9) - und sollte don sein. (11,12) sind ziemlich inaudible und nicht gut zum Followen, würde diese dann entfernen.
00:09:038 (13,14) - (13) sollte auf 00:09:066 - stehen und (14) entfernen aus dem selben wie zuvor.
01:05:483 (156) - ist wie 01:08:149 (158) - von der Tonhöhe her und sollte ebenfalls don sein.
01:10:816 (161) - ^
01:14:816 (164) - Wenn du es von hier aus umdrehst, sollte dann die Note aber auch don sein - so wie es 01:17:483 (166) - eben ist. Allgemein fände ich es besser 01:16:149 (165,166) - einfach umzudrehen, ist nur meine Meinung.
01:35:882 (66) - Würde ich eher mit don unterstützen, da kkdkk für den Klang her seltsamer klingt imo.
01:41:966 (110) - Die Note könnte anstelle eines einfachen don zu einer großen Note werden. Entweder das oder auch K. Je nach dem, was du für besser hälst.
01:44:632 (122) - ^
03:07:965 (47) - sollte zu pattern besser passen und don stattdessen werden. 03:06:799 (40,41,42,43) - ist sound-wise genau so wie 03:07:466 (44,45,46,47) - in der Musik.
03:35:466 (112,113,114,115,116,117) - anstatt es auf zwei kurze Triplets zu belassen, würde ich nach 03:34:799 (106,107,108,109,110,111) - etwas Längeres hinpacken wie zum Beispiel ein fivelet (kkddk d in dem Fall).
03:40:799 (148) - Wahrscheinlich spricht da einfach der DDKK Spieler aus mir heraus, aber K D D K D D K hört sich imo weitaus sicker an und würde dem Rhythmus eine weitaus interessantere Note geben.
03:56:132 (206) - würde die Note zu don wechseln - scheint mir eher tiefer zu sein als 03:56:799 (207) - .

[Standard]
wait a second, Standard modding?! 🤔

Okay, actually I can't bring myself to mod Standard for now because I am just tooooooooo out of it. The only things I've noticed are..
01:05:483 (1) - Shouldn't the note have the same hitsound like 01:08:149 (1) - or 01:16:149 (1) - ?
04:34:798 - unsnapped green line, should be at :799.

And unless something pooped on my computer, you guys maybe want to change this inconsistency here:


bla
posted

Stefan wrote:

C G

[Taiko]
00:07:649 (10,11,12) - (10) ist imo definitiv tiefer als 00:07:177 (9) - und sollte don sein. (11,12) sind ziemlich inaudible und nicht gut zum Followen, würde diese dann entfernen.
00:09:038 (13,14) - (13) sollte auf 00:09:066 - stehen und (14) entfernen aus dem selben wie zuvor.
01:05:483 (156) - ist wie 01:08:149 (158) - von der Tonhöhe her und sollte ebenfalls don sein.
01:10:816 (161) - ^ Alles obenstehe hab ich nichts einzuwenden, changed
01:14:816 (164) - Wenn du es von hier aus umdrehst, sollte dann die Note aber auch don sein - so wie es 01:17:483 (166) - eben ist. Allgemein fände ich es besser 01:16:149 (165,166) - einfach umzudrehen, ist nur meine Meinung. Reiner zufall dass es umgedreht ist, hab es nur nach pitch gemappt
01:35:882 (66) - Würde ich eher mit don unterstützen, da kkdkk für den Klang her seltsamer klingt imo. Klaro
01:41:966 (110) - Die Note könnte anstelle eines einfachen don zu einer großen Note werden. Entweder das oder auch K. Je nach dem, was du für besser hälst. Erst einmal auf ein D belassen, ausserdem ähnliche auftritte des sounds auch D gemacht
01:44:632 (122) - ^ Das ist für wieder schon zu leise um einen finisher zu bewerkstelligen. Da wird das Becken ja eigentlich nur stillgestellt,
wenn man hinhört.

03:07:965 (47) - sollte zu pattern besser passen und don stattdessen werden. 03:06:799 (40,41,42,43) - ist sound-wise genau so wie 03:07:466 (44,45,46,47) - in der Musik. Da habe ich zu wiedersprechen, der unterschied zwischen 03:07:299 - und 03:07:965 - besteht allein in der stärke, pitch wie auch immer des beckens was hier knallt. Daher der unterschied von don zu kat.
03:35:466 (112,113,114,115,116,117) - anstatt es auf zwei kurze Triplets zu belassen, würde ich nach 03:34:799 (106,107,108,109,110,111) - etwas Längeres hinpacken wie zum Beispiel ein fivelet (kkddk d in dem Fall). Ich würde es lieber dabei belassen, Es representiert das lied bereits akkurat wie hier 1/4 drums einsetzen, und die snare drum wird hier auch passend als kkd anders als die anderen kdd hervorgehoben. Würde ich es nun zu einem 5let machen, ginge die hervorhebung der 1/4 drums im hintergrund verloren und würde dadurch auch an variation verlieren.
03:40:799 (148) - Wahrscheinlich spricht da einfach der DDKK Spieler aus mir heraus, aber K D D K D D K hört sich imo weitaus sicker an und würde dem Rhythmus eine weitaus interessantere Note geben. Das ignorieren der pitches ist absichtlich um dem recht starken 03:41:465 - mit dem eche noch extra knall zu geben. Würde ich sehr genau nach pitches arbeiten wäre es auch kein K D D K D D K mehr, also belasse ich es erstmal wie es ist.
03:56:132 (206) - würde die Note zu don wechseln - scheint mir eher tiefer zu sein als 03:56:799 (207) - . Danke ich bin scheisse was sowas angeht xD, Changed.

And unless something pooped on my computer, you guys maybe want to change this inconsistency here:

Sieht bei mir nicht so aus, sollte bei Redl wieder normal sein ^^"

bla


Danke für den mod ^^
posted
Hello there, quick mod coming through

things in bold are my main concerns / strong suggestions

anything else is a normal suggestion

REEEEEEEincarnation
piano snapping :joy: :gun:

00:00:150 (1) - kat here? Differenciating between the pitches of this note and 00:05:483 (7) - would be pretty neat

00:01:149 (2) - why kat? The piano has definitely a very similar pitch to 00:02:038 (4) - which is mapped as don, also don would give 00:01:566 (3) - a much nicer constrast

00:45:316 (94) - and 00:50:649 (111) - either both don or both kat I'd say, the same drum thing is played here and representing them differently is kinda odd

01:29:549 - there's definitely a snare played, consider adding a note here?

01:38:632 (85) - kat seems out of place drum- and guitar wise, consider changing it to don? Also flows nicely into the upcoming finisher

01:41:966 (110) - why is this not a finish?

01:49:465 (141,142) - same here

02:10:716 (266) - consider deleting this note and adding a finish on 02:10:799 (267) - to keep cymbal / finish emphasis consistent?

02:16:132 (292,293,294,295,296,297,298,299,300,301,302,303,304) - dunno if the similar buildup with 01:34:799 (56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68) - is intentional or not, but I'd suggest to make them the same as the same sounds are played here (with somewhat equal intensity)

03:06:632 (39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47) - this sounds super awkward and I have honestly no idea what you're following here, if it's the vocals I'd reconsider that cause that goes against any other emphasis you did so far in the map

03:30:799 - to 03:41:465 - consider adding Kiai here? imo this part really stands out from the rest in what it is and its intensity (and it looks cool lel)

04:05:466 (222,223,224) - I'd do abekobe on all these notes, current pattern sounds off to me

04:21:799 (257,258,259,260,261,262,263,264,265,266,267,268,269,270,271,272,273,274) - I've mentioned the buildup part already above regarding consistency; this one is kinda boring compared to the others and feels much weaker apart from being practically the same or even stronger than the other in the song.

04:37:466 (361,362,363) - what is this supposed to emphasize, I can't tell lol

I suck at modding /runs


good luck fam
posted

Greenshell wrote:

Hello there, quick mod coming through

things in bold are my main concerns / strong suggestions

anything else is a normal suggestion

REEEEEEEincarnation
piano snapping :joy: :gun:

00:00:150 (1) - kat here? Differenciating between the pitches of this note and 00:05:483 (7) - would be pretty neat

00:01:149 (2) - why kat? The piano has definitely a very similar pitch to 00:02:038 (4) - which is mapped as don, also don would give 00:01:566 (3) - a much nicer constrast

00:45:316 (94) - and 00:50:649 (111) - either both don or both kat I'd say, the same drum thing is played here and representing them differently is kinda odd

01:29:549 - there's definitely a snare played, consider adding a note here?

01:38:632 (85) - kat seems out of place drum- and guitar wise, consider changing it to don? Also flows nicely into the upcoming finisher

01:41:966 (110) - why is this not a finish?

01:49:465 (141,142) - same here

02:10:716 (266) - consider deleting this note and adding a finish on 02:10:799 (267) - to keep cymbal / finish emphasis consistent?

02:16:132 (292,293,294,295,296,297,298,299,300,301,302,303,304) - dunno if the similar buildup with 01:34:799 (56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68) - is intentional or not, but I'd suggest to make them the same as the same sounds are played here (with somewhat equal intensity)

03:06:632 (39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47) - this sounds super awkward and I have honestly no idea what you're following here, if it's the vocals I'd reconsider that cause that goes against any other emphasis you did so far in the map Made what im following hopefully clear snare +
cymbals


03:30:799 - to 03:41:465 - consider adding Kiai here? imo this part really stands out from the rest in what it is and its intensity (and it looks cool lel)

04:05:466 (222,223,224) - I'd do abekobe on all these notes, current pattern sounds off to me

04:21:799 (257,258,259,260,261,262,263,264,265,266,267,268,269,270,271,272,273,274) - I've mentioned the buildup part already above regarding consistency; this one is kinda boring compared to the others and feels much weaker apart from being practically the same or even stronger than the other in the song. Now its the strongest buildup in the song, given its length.

04:37:466 (361,362,363) - what is this supposed to emphasize, I can't tell lol

I suck at modding /runs


good luck fam


P much everything applied in a way or another

Thanks a lot!
posted
placeholder Hello Nepuri, here's a very short mod

get more stars 12 for rankability, 20 for my policy

ok
  1. Fix the tag inconsistencies.
  2. 00:28:316 - you can add something here if you want, since there's a light note there and it would probably make 00:27:816 (30,31) - this less awkward
  3. 00:30:149 (39,40) - I don't fully understand the reasoning for the break here
  4. 00:52:816 (117,118,119,120,121) - consider kkdkd or kkkkd to make 00:52:816 - this a k and continue the pattern you had going where every 2nd/4th was a k, similar to 00:58:149 (133,134,135,136,137) - here (00:58:149 - ), and if you agree do it again 01:03:483 (151,152,153,154,155) - here)
  5. 03:56:132 (206,207,208) - d k k for the vocal pitch if you want
  6. 04:04:132 (217,218) - ctrl+g for the vocal pitch if you want
  7. 04:07:132 (228) - d for the vocal pitch if you want
  8. 04:09:466 (231,232,233) - d d d for vocal pitch if you want

call me back
posted

Jonawaga wrote:

ok
  1. Fix the tag inconsistencies.
  2. 00:28:316 - you can add something here if you want, since there's a light note there and it would probably make 00:27:816 (30,31) - this less awkward //nah, its too light to be considered
  3. 00:30:149 (39,40) - I don't fully understand the reasoning for the break here //added stuff
  4. 00:52:816 (117,118,119,120,121) - consider kkdkd or kkkkd to make 00:52:816 - this a k and continue the pattern you had going where every 2nd/4th was a k, similar to 00:58:149 (133,134,135,136,137) - here (00:58:149 - ), and if you agree do it again 01:03:483 (151,152,153,154,155) - here) //both changed to kdkkd
  5. 03:56:132 (206,207,208) - d k k for the vocal pitch if you want //ddk for music theory reasons
  6. 04:04:132 (217,218) - ctrl+g for the vocal pitch if you want //nah, the pattern should be distinct from the upcoming one, which has pitches that fit more to dkdk imo
  7. 04:07:132 (228) - d for the vocal pitch if you want //no, theres still tension left in her voice until the d
  8. 04:09:466 (231,232,233) - d d d for vocal pitch if you want //sure

call me back
posted
looks real nice
posted
You could still bubble it though.
posted
owo/~*
posted
Some random idea before the mapset keeps going:

> 00:28:066 - isn't it wrongly snapped? I think you meant to have it put at 00:27:983 - . Imo it can be just directly removed for a better progression.

> 00:34:316 - how about adding a don to fill in the bell sound? k _ k sounds a bit light.

> 03:09:465 - D is better for extra emphasis in base drum hit, and the down vocal pitch.

> 04:54:132 - A solid K should be here
posted
taiko diff

fwiw I read through Skylish's mod and agree with every point he made


std diff
when you snap the beginning sliders to blue ticks it makes it a lot more strenuous to snap between them rather than fitting of a calm section

00:38:983 (1,2,3,4,5) - if you're gonna bother to structure a pattern in such a fashion like this then it would make sense to place 1 in the middle of the 2 doubles

01:43:799 (6,7,1) - there are so many places where you made such an effort to try and emphasis such downbeat sliders with flow it leaves me stumped that you left these stacked here

02:36:299 (2,3) - easy to read patterns are for noobs amirite

02:35:965 (6,7,1,2,3,1,2,1,2) - this pattern comes up a lot in the map and I can't say I like it that much. You map the drum kicks (with blue ticks) 02:35:965 (6,7) with circles but then map them with kick sliders 02:36:632 (1,1) . Also the arrangement of the kicks sliders just play like 1/2 circles with no emphasis on
any of the drums specific drum hits

04:44:465 (3,4) - This spacing between 1/4 beats is just absurd. Doesn't feel anyway justified by the surrounding objects in the kiai nvm the fact it's so high you wouldn't expect it would quite easily be misread

I think the biggest problem with the map are that intense sections like 01:26:466 don't have much difference in spacing from 00:21:483 and 01:52:799 . Yh there is a difference but not by much. The SVs of the intense sections are really low too.
[]im a bad modder
posted

Skylish wrote:

Some random idea before the mapset keeps going:

> 00:28:066 - isn't it wrongly snapped? I think you meant to have it put at 00:27:983 - . Imo it can be just directly removed for a better progression. //Removed for progression, was on the verge of removing it myself, thanks.

> 00:34:316 - how about adding a don to fill in the bell sound? k _ k sounds a bit light. //Gotcha, fits with the identity of the section more now.

> 03:09:465 - D is better for extra emphasis in base drum hit, and the down vocal pitch. //Don finishers are rarely used here at all, so i guess it gives the transition into a calmer part a much nicer feeling, applied!

> 04:54:132 - A solid K should be here //How did i miss that lol. Only a normal kat though, since this cymbal sound is used quite often/brutally in this section and i dont want to overemphasize.


Will update when Ayyri responds to Kisses Mod.
posted
hey there, i'm popping this for several reasons.

1. 00:00:150 - i'm not sure about the bpm at the start, i talked it over with raiden and we came to the conclusion that it should be 90 but i'd prefer there to be some more discussion before this gets pushed forward, i'm also not entirely sure whether or not the start might need some other red lines to avoid snapping to 1/8 which is kinda hard to read and looks very ugly when in front of a barline

2. I feel like it would be better to get confirmation from a standard BN before putting this into bubbled, i looked at the std diff and there were a few things that concerned me there too (example: 03:57:465 (3) - stuff like this slider would feel more natural if the end were snapped to 03:58:465 - since the cutting off of the vocal doesn't really classify as a sound. 04:06:799 (1,2,3) - then there's these sliders that are snapped to 1/3 even though there are no 1/3 sounds etc.) i just feel like this would need some more discussion.

3. there's the discussion about contribution to the set. I checked up with JBH on this and not only drain time, but also storyboard etc. count toward this. Looking at the description it kinda looks like Ayyri contributed more, since she mapped the standard diff and also did the storyboard, so theoretically she should be the one hosting the set, which is kinda awkward for obvious reasons... I'm not entirely sure about this one myself though, so i'll leave this up to discussion

either way i don't feel like this should be rebubbled without a standard BN checking it first

i also have some concerns about repetitive rhythm in the taiko difficulties, but we'll leave that for later

good luck!
posted
Thank you for the concerns with the mapset!

As for the BPM, id like some proof first, the piano is doing a steady 1 2 3 4 repeated every line,
Also setting it as 90 would imply even MORE snapping to odd snaps, to the point where it isnt possible to do so anymore.
If anyone has a timing approach with red lines for said reasons, id be happy to look into it further.

The contribution i suppose was a little to be misunderstood
I did the Taiko diff
Ayyri did the Standard Diff
Noffy did all of the execution of the storyboard, with ideas from ayyri.
If those ideas to the storyboard do swing the ownership, i have to personally say its a bit overt that such a thing does so.

(Fun fact i didnt put ayyri into credits first cuz i didnt know she gave ideas to noffy)

--------------

I was told there was a T1 BN looking into the difficulty saying it was fine (as quoted of ayyri)
Sadly i dont know any names. Time will tell when the check comes.

--------------

If you have concerns about the taiko difficulty, i would be happy if you would express them as soon as possible, as im aware that the repetitive rhythm is a problem.


Thank you for bringing this to my attention!
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