1. Ayyri's Futsuu (2.53 stars, 325 notes)
2. Ayyri's Muzukashii (3.52 stars, 508 notes)
3. Ayyri's Outer Oni (6.43 stars, 953 notes)
4. Inner Oni (5.24 stars, 803 notes)
5. Kantan (1.77 stars, 197 notes)
6. Oni (4.38 stars, 679 notes)

voted #23 of all ranked maps in the 2017 community choice!

Vulkin wrote:

m4m 4 shinbatsu dad
on request not modding futsuu, nor muzukashii

-Kantan-
there are alot of inherited points that do absolutely nothing, delete them
is volume 100% ok?
00:00:185 - why not start from here like the other diffs? for same drain time I actually forgot to map the beginning lol oops
00:21:730 (22,23) - ctrl+g so its dk and the k can have consistency with 00:17:639 (15) -
00:30:730 - why not k dkd k d? so it has consistency with previous patterns
00:50:094 (9) - move to 00:49:548 - so the triplets can be separated? plus it would give the chance to make 00:50:366 (10) - finisher I think this is fine as is, this suggestion makes it sound kind of awkward imo.
00:58:821 (25) - ^ ^
01:09:730 (46,1) - delete so theres break consistent with 01:05:639 - ? then you could add a note at 01:11:639 - (preferably k) for the change of pitch of that instrument (piano?) I deleted that note, but I didn't add a note for the sake of maintaining sufficient 4/1 breaks.
01:31:548 - add a k? so it has consistency with 01:40:275 (36) -
01:50:912 (53) - k? same pitch as 01:50:639 (52) - This note kinda caters more to the vocal as that's the most prominent sound at this point in the song.

-Oni-
00:06:730 (1,2,3,4) - why not D on these?, same sound as 00:04:139 (33,34) -
00:25:821 (112) - I dont think this sound is strong for a finisher
00:34:685 - add a d? sounds better imo Keeping it as is unless someone else says the same thing.
00:37:275 (178,179,180,181) - kdkd? reflects the pitch better imo ^
00:39:457 (186) - i dont think this is strong sound for finisher
01:11:639 (386) - ^
01:48:185 - why no note? There's not much of any sound here.
01:50:912 (37) - same pitch as previous note, make it k See muzu.

-Inner Oni-
00:06:730 (27,28,29,30) - same pitch as 00:04:139 (1) -
00:17:366 (79) - i dont think its strong sound owo
00:17:639 (80) - finisher? same sound as 00:22:003 (120) - so why not?
00:48:185 - in this part i think theres some triplets missing, feels a bit dull I disagree, what's mapped rn is what is clearly matchable to the instrument.
00:56:912 - ^ ^
00:59:094 (388) - finisher? 00:54:730 (348) - this has finisher, and its same sound, so why not? Nah, I don't think that note needs the extra emphasis. The note on 00:54:730 has a finisher because it's the beginning of a kiai.
01:07:821 (458) - finisher? 01:03:457 (425) - same sound
01:16:548 (518) - finisher & D? 01:12:185 (485) - same sound, while youre at it, make 01:16:821 (519) - k so it has better consistency
01:27:457 - feels a bit dull & empty here Same response as before.
01:36:185 (106,107,108,109,110,111,112) - i would make them finisher, the sound seems fitting for them I think that creates too many finishers.
01:50:912 (194) - k? same sound as previous note (01:50:639 (193) - ) See muzu.

From Ayyri via Discord
00:06:730 - I don't really see a need for this, considering that the sound continues here, providing no natural breaks in the build up. Whereas at 00:07:685 - / 00:07:821 - there is a break in the sound here.
00:17:366 - A rather energetic vocal sample on it's own before the start of the main rhythm? I think a finisher is quite fitting for this.
00:20:155 - / 00:24:525 - / 01:14:707 - Fair point. I was moreso going for a different pace for the vocal samples here, hence the use of the double beforehand. But I will consider using these suggestions, to fit more with the surrounding patterns, even if it deviates from the original idea.
00:34:821 - Airhorn doesn't really warrant a finisher here. Because it would take away emphasis from the upcoming calm part at, 00:35:094 - .
00:35:366 - If I were to remove this note, I would have to remove 00:35:639 - / 00:36:457 - / 00:37:003 - / 00:37:548 - / 00:37:821 -, as well. Because they are all following the clockticking sound in the background.
00:52:548 - / 01:01:275 - Valid point. But I think having 00:52:548 - and 00:52:957 - as the same colour would better emphasis the higher pitch at 00:53:230 - , rather than take away from it by making it a back and forth pattern.
01:22:003 - Unlike previous times, this part is not following the most apparent rhythm in the song. It is following the more subtle vocal same in the background. Making them all the same colour makes it a bit more obvious that it is following one concrete thing, rather than just ignoring it. Because this sample was not used before now. Moreover, it gives a decent pick up into the next section, which is faster paced.
01:50:912 - Disagree. Rather, it sounds like the vocal is going down, and fading out. Which it very well is. So I believe that going from a high pitched k, to a low pitched d illustrates this quite well.

I hope it helps ^^
I'll mod your map soon @_@

Nepuri wrote:

M0d Boss

Kantan--------

Delete the Unused green lines.

00:10:003 (3) - If you move the note to 00:10:275 - It sounds much nicer with the k
You did this at the end once but i find it better to do it all the time

00:50:912 (11,12,13) - Instead of d_k_d, try smth like https://puu.sh/wX54F/013c47d586.png
This favors the most prevalent sound of the melody tbh. The 3/4 gap should not be a problem either as you used it in calmer parts and would not confuse players at all, would also serve as a kind of break if you ask me.
And it would also offer a weaker variation on this: 01:25:821 (2,3,4,5) - pattern you use later in the Map
Kinda gives it more continuity if you ask me
Please apply to all repititions.

01:07:548 (40) - It sounds weird that this is the only note before 41, even though theres an equally strong sound on 01:07:275 - which you could move the note to to make it sounds a lot nicer.

01:24:185 (1) - This is a short spinner with little break time after it.
Consider replacing
Futsuu--------

Tags are conflicting with every other diff, Sort it out i guess ^^

Oni ---------

00:51:321 (254) - This should be a k, its an even higher tone than what 00:51:184 (253) - leaves off on.

01:00:730 (323,324,325) - Changing this to a kkd and applying ctrl+g to 01:01:003 (326,327) - Sounds personally better to me as the kats lie on the higher sounds here, aswell as the d on 327 giving the finisher more impact, and the kkd itself representing the pitch better.

01:25:003 - Theres a sound here overlapped with the spinner. I dont mind it myself but i wouldve put a note here somehow.
It would kinda confuse the player if he finishes the spinner early and hears this clap sound not mapped, thats what i think at least

01:26:912 (17,18,19,20,21) - Similar to a previous point, i suggest a kkd k d here just for pitch reasons and so that the kats lie on more dominant sounds like they do with other patterns.

01:39:866 (123) - k just for the pitch? Then again it becomes harder to read. Personal preference really uwu

Inner-----
Why is the first section denser than a lot of other sections? I suggest you nerf it a bit so its not

00:23:094 (131) - Change to k just to fit the 1/1 vocal a bit better since this section is quite reliant on the vocals i guess

Other than that not really a lot of important things, this song is quite lenient with pitches.

Midnaait wrote:

Hey, from my modding queue
// = Suggestion
Bold = Must change

[General]

Spread is fine imo, maybe the muzu is a bit hard and might need some 1/2 breaks but considering this is a fast and kinda technical song seems good : ok_hand:

[Kantan]

00:54:185 - Since kiai is a bit denser than the rest of the song, you should consider deleting this note, it doesn't hurt too much lol
01:02:912 - ^
01:19:275 - Change this to don or 01:18:730 - this to kat? they have the same sound
01:22:548 (7,8) - I suggest moving these to 01:21:457 - because it's a much quieter part, so the break should be there imo
If you did ^^^ change 01:22:003 - to don because dkk sounds bad lol I simply like the way it is right now, sounds better to me.
01:33:457 - Like I said above, but this part needs it more because it's way more dense now
01:43:821 - // You can remove this to make a rest after that kiai lol (you can keep them if you wish dw) Didn't change them, big hits need emphasis

[Oni]

00:08:639 - How about changing this to k? It'd emphasize better the finisher and follow a bit better the song
00:19:821 - // Change this to d? 00:20:025 and 00:20:230 - have the same sound
00:37:275 (178,179,180,181) - Ctrl+G? Melody goes down in pitch, then up, down and up :thinking:

Not much to say, pretty clean diff

[Inner Oni]

00:20:912 - idk but I hear this on the song

00:43:003 (264,265) - // Ctrl+g? Follows better the song imo
00:54:321 (343,344) - If you're mapping to the melody thing there, it'd be better if the triplets were monocolor, so ctrl+g-ing these notes would do the trick The pitch of each triplet still is high, which is why I think each one should start with a kat, but because they're descending in pitch, I changed them to give that effect.
00:55:957 - Invert? You had it like ddk in the other parts lol
01:03:048 (420,421) - As I said before, ctrl+g for monocolor triplets ^
01:33:594 (75,76) - ^ ^

[Ayyri's Outer Oni]

// Punch the HP a bit down? HP 7 for 1k notes might be a bit too much but I can understand since this is the hardest diff lol

00:19:957 (173,174) and 00:20:162 (175,176) - // Ctrl+G these for consistency? Vocals are mapped as k in 00:19:821
01:14:503 (309,310) and 01:14:708 (311,312) - // ^

I CAN'T FIND ANYTHING WRONG GOD DAMMIT

That's all, good luck!

1. "Widescreen support" should be disable on Oni difficulty.

Tyistiana wrote:

Hi~ :3
Not sure yet that you're accepted my request on your queue or not.
Even that, I like this song on my purpose.

[ General]

1. "Widescreen support" should be disable on Oni difficulty.

[ Kantan]
00:04:139 - A finisher here is inexpedient. Just emphasize 00:04:548 (7) is enough. In my opinion, Kantan should use finisher in the point which it's noticeably only. Both hits are strong enough for a finisher, no change.
00:06:730 (9,10) - Same as above, I suggest to remove the finisher. ^
00:33:185 / 00:33:730 - Add a note here , both of vocal and drum pitch are faster than previous part. Although agreeable, I just don't see the need for these notes.
00:43:548 moves to 00:43:275 - To follow the drum pitch. The note is here for congruent structure to 00:42:457 (15,16) - , except the spinner takes the place of the note.

[ Ayyri's Futsuu]
00:03:866 - Delete might be good to let the player concentrate on 00:04:139 (10,11)
00:43:821 - This spinner should be end on 00:45:185 , which the pitch end here.
01:36:457 - I don't know that this suggestion is acceptable on Futsuu or not , but I feel like to move this note to 01:36:389 seems more accurate.
01:48:730 - I'm afraid that this note is doesn't fit to the finisher due to the pitch here is not strong enough.

[ Ayyri's Muzukashii]
00:05:639 - Delete? , to follow the main melody only.
00:49:821 / 00:58:548 - Change to d , similar pitch to 00:49:548 (22)
01:16:275 - A finisher here seems don't fit enough imo. This note have been emphasized already by the difference of the note's color around this note.
01:20:230 - Delete? , to follow the pitch only. Not the vocal.

[ Oni]
00:22:957 - Delete , for the consistency of 00:18:594
00:29:503 - Delete , since after the vocal on 00:29:366 (136) , you've always blanked the note. Delete for the consistency. I would, but I use this note to lead into the new patterns at 00:29:639 (138,139,140,141,142,143) - .
01:23:366 - Add a note here would be nice , still have a pitch here. Main focus is on the bass hit.

[ Inner Oni]
00:05:775 moves to 00:05:366 - Seems like the pitch on 00:05:775 is not strong like 00:05:366. To give a rest on 00:05:775 which the pitch is softer would be better. I simply don't see the logic behind this one, the structure here is the same as it's been throughout the entire intro, so no change.
00:41:503 - Delete , not have a main melody , just like 00:42:594 - 00:43:685 , and not like 00:40:412 which it still have a main melody. I'm honestly confused by this comment...
00:43:003 - How about make this as 5plets? Seems good to make a consistency to the previous 5plets there like 00:39:730 (241,242,243,244,245)
01:23:366 - Like I've suggest on Oni difficulty , add a note here would be nice , still have a pitch here. Same as oni
01:38:366 - This part , how about we rearrange the note like this one? General effect isn't changed either way, no need for change.

[ Ayyri's Outer Oni]
00:06:525 / 00:06:662 - Delete , let the stream part start on 00:06:730 would be better. Start with the strong pitch would make a great feeling to the player.
01:38:025 (569,570) - Ctrl+G ? , seems better imo.
01:38:162 - Delete , the main melody ends on 01:38:094. So the stream should be end on 01:38:094 too.

Ayyri's difficulties selectively changed.
That's all from me. This map is very good!!
Good luck!!

Arrival wrote:

consider adding We are "Lite Show Magic" to tags

outer oni

00:00:185 - i do think the beginning is a bit too dense and doesnt bring contrast with the next parts. consider nerfing it a bit

00:20:162 (175,176,177,178,179,180,181,182) - this is a very weird pattern and design choice. you should delete this 00:20:298 (177) - and maybe make the next pattern kdkkd for max flow / or kkddk if you want to keep the double k with 00:20:775 (182) -

00:24:526 (224,225,226,227,228,229,230,231) - same but worse

00:27:457 (251,252,253,254,255,256,257,258,259,260,261,262,263,264,265,266,267) - too much for what the song has to offer, doesnt bring any emphasis on 00:27:662 - / 00:27:866 - that really need it.

00:29:503 (263,264,265,266) - too many dons although the song changes a lot. make it so these are ks 00:29:503 (263,266) - / for exemple here 00:29:912 (266,267) - you use kd and put a k at 00:30:116 - . and then dk d k at 00:30:253 (269,270,271,272) -

i do believe kiais streams are a bit too much but well

01:22:003 - song is slow, use less notes aka delete 01:22:139 (390,393) - and lower the volume

01:38:094 (568) - end your stream here it will feel better


inner oni

00:04:412 (4) - use k here to avoid a d repetition

00:08:503 (34,35,36,37,38) - you should go full mono considering the sound

00:35:094 - please lower the volume xd

00:48:185 - weird shift in intensity after the first part of the kiai ? use one or two more triplets at least

00:52:957 (338,339,340) - i'd really go D K D here tbh

01:23:366 - 01:23:912 - maybe add 2 notes there ? idk as you want

01:24:866 - lengthen your spinner since you dont do the whole screaming already

oni

00:27:321 (120) - delete this maybe to shorten the whole pattern, looks more inner oni like than oni

volume

00:48:321 (228) - delete this too, spread with muzukashii is kinda screwed otherwise lul I'm not seeing what this messes up spread wise @_@

muzukashii

00:30:253 (131) - prolly delete this for the sake of simplicity since the song is quite weird and unpredictable here

01:20:912 - song is quiet yet the part is denser than the kiai. nerf it reduce the volume too

01:37:412 (268) - please delete this the pattern is way too long

futsuu

01:12:185 - pattern is loong maybe kill 01:14:639 (104) -

01:18:730 - weird having this density here, you can remove 01:19:003 (120,122) -

kantan

very personnal but i'd use 1.2 sv for kantan at this bpm

volume

01:24:185 - you use spinners on higher diffs though i'd suggest placing a k or K instead so we can get a 4/1 break before the kiai

low diffs look fine overall Will respond with Ayyri's responses later

hikikochan wrote:

hello, stopping by to give a couple points bc this is kind of sort of maybe the most problematic map i've seen bubbled in a while no need to be rude.

[Ayyri's Outer Oni]
00:00:185 - why is the intro so dense? sure it has some fairly involved rhythms in the background but they're low volume and meant to be embellishment. you're mapping them as if they were front-and-center rhythms in a kiai they really are, except when the vocal comes around

even if the song warranted this level of density (which it does), the patterns themselves have pretty subpar flow. you're trying to follow both the instrumental and the vocals whenever the syllables line up, and it makes for some v counterintuitive mapping. let's just look at the first four bars:
- 00:00:866 (6,7,8,9,10,11) - this patterning forces k 1/2 singletaps that feel extremely out of place there's nowhere in the intro that warrants any singletapping, most of it is going to be alternated
- 00:01:275 (11,12) - these two are clearly made to be k to coincide with "man" in the vocals, so one would expect 00:01:821 (18,19,20) - to be kkd to go with "trapped." however you pattern the latter to be kdk so that each k lands on a note in the instrumental. 2 things wrong with this: a) the change in the layer you're following, and b) kdk creates 1/4 emphasis, not 1/2. it's overdoing on top of an already overdone rhythm scheme none of the intro is based on the vocal actually
- 00:02:912 (30,31,32) - again here. 30 is emphasizing "in" and 31+32 are k to match the instrumental. even just changing 30 to a d would immediately improve the patterning ^
- 00:04:275 (44,45,46) - would work much better as kkk. why emphasize the last note? there's nothing special about the note a 1/2 before the downbeat, and all the corresponding beats in the instrumental sound exactly the same. even if this were rationalized as "improv" it wouldn't make any sense. moreover, D ddk D plays awkwardly
you get the point. basically the basis upon which this map was made is fundamentally flawed; i won't go into this much detail for the rest of the map or this mod would span about 3 pages and make me go insane in the middle of college app season
ok

00:24:321 (220,221,222,223) - this was clearly made to be kd kd to force variation from 00:19:957 (171,172,173,174) - , but why? seems unnecessary up to mappers style, especially when this isn't really causing any significant trouble
00:35:094 - @ the first half of this calmer section: sure i get that the clock ticks in the instrumental land on every 1/1 but l i t e r a l l y mapping every 1/1 is just overkill. when 00:39:457 - kicks in, it doesn't feel like an increase in the pace of the song at all, even though it should, because the density of the part before it is so similar they're fairly similar bc the only difference is 1 new instrument is introduced, so this great big gap of density you're talking about isn't really necessary (and also not really present in any of the other diffs)
00:48:866 (40,42,43) - same thing with the forced k singletapping i mentioned earlier. a lot of your streams feel the same way to play because you're using k to emphasize 90% of the notes in the main synth melody i still see no forced k single tapping at all in this map
01:05:093 (214,216,218) - i don't need to re-explain

01:07:275 (241,242,243) - wow it looks like you seem to know that you don't need to map every sound in the song!
01:11:093 (278,279,280,281,282,283,284,285,286) - oh never mind then

01:18:730 (352,354,356,360,362,364) - yes very good stream with very suitable emphasis that plays very well (insert /s here)
going to ignore the above sarcasm as this doesn't even really help the map at all

i'll let the people following up my post elaborate more, i'm just scratching the surface
glhf

Chromoxx wrote:

what hikiko said is pretty accurate, not to mention the overall lack of rhythmic and pattern variety... the whole map just feels extremely copypasted. the patterns all feel the same in general since you are basically using nothing except kdkdk ddkkd kkddk type patterns throughout all the streams. also not to mention the insufficient mod replies on ayyri's diffs: replying with "selective changes were made" isn't good enough, since it isn't giving the modder any sort of feedback whatsoever and isn't transparent either... by looking at the mod history for ayyri's diffs it is not clear in the slightest what changes were made. Even if you are banned, you can at least get taikocracy to post an actual response for you, it's the least you can do and owe to the people who put in the time to mod your map.

also here's a quick irc about the map from a few weeks ago, i don't really see any significant changes so it should still be somewhat relevant:

irc

2017-09-17 13:30 Taikocracy: Hey look I'm here now
2017-09-17 13:30 Chromoxx: yo
2017-09-17 13:31 Taikocracy: ACTION is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/1347776 Lite Show Magic (t+pazolite vs C-Show) - TRICKL4SH 220 [Inner Oni]]
2017-09-17 13:31 Taikocracy: Here is
2017-09-17 13:31 Taikocracy: Le map
2017-09-17 13:35 Chromoxx: which diff?
2017-09-17 13:36 Taikocracy: Any diff xP
2017-09-17 13:38 Chromoxx: flows pretty well
2017-09-17 13:38 Taikocracy:
2017-09-17 13:38 Taikocracy: Try top diff ><
2017-09-17 13:38 Taikocracy: I can't play it too well so I don't know if it flows or not
2017-09-17 13:38 Taikocracy: :sweat_smile:
2017-09-17 13:40 Chromoxx: its pretty bad tbh
2017-09-17 13:41 Taikocracy: okay
2017-09-17 13:41 Taikocracy: I low key thought the same thing
2017-09-17 13:41 Chromoxx: overdone streams, excessive copypaste, ugly end of 5plet finishers
2017-09-17 13:41 Taikocracy: Her older version is so much better
2017-09-17 13:41 Chromoxx: and then dumb diffspike at the end with the 1/6 in the middle of that long stream
2017-09-17 13:41 Taikocracy: I might ask her if I can revert it to her old version
2017-09-17 13:41 Taikocracy: Because it was so much better
2017-09-17 13:42 Chromoxx: i haven't seen it
2017-09-17 13:42 Chromoxx: but tbh its not hard to be better than this
2017-09-17 13:42 Taikocracy: 6.15*
2017-09-17 13:42 Taikocracy: Instead of 6.69*
2017-09-17 13:42 Chromoxx: ah
2017-09-17 13:43 Taikocracy: ACTION is listening to [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/975165 Lite Show Magic (t+pazolite vs C-Show) - TRICKL4SH 220]
2017-09-17 13:43 Taikocracy: you can see the version here
2017-09-17 13:43 Taikocracy: it was never updated because she died
2017-09-17 13:45 Chromoxx: its better
2017-09-17 13:45 Chromoxx: but still p bad
2017-09-17 13:45 Chromoxx: the copypaste...
2017-09-17 13:46 Taikocracy: I was nervous about the new version for sure but u g h
2017-09-17 13:46 Chromoxx: just general advice
2017-09-17 13:46 Chromoxx: don't take 6* diffs from people who can't play them
2017-09-17 13:46 Taikocracy: Worst comes the worst
2017-09-17 13:46 Taikocracy: I make it myself
2017-09-17 13:47 Chromoxx: ye
2017-09-17 13:47 Taikocracy: I think you'll find the rest of the set is fine
2017-09-17 13:47 Taikocracy: But geez
2017-09-17 13:48 Chromoxx: ye probably

Chromoxx wrote:

i didn't just pop without looking at it again, the problems still exist... the rhythm is basically copy pasted over and over and the patterns are still overly repetitive.. also there is no need to write what has already been written, just seconding hikiko's points here aswell...

and there is nothing wrong with popping something over personal preference, i strongly disagree with the way this is mapped and don't feel like it should be ranked, sorry.

edit: you mention changes to arrivals mod, which are not even trackable since there is no reply posted lol

Chromoxx wrote:

edit: you mention changes to arrivals mod, which are not even trackable since there is no reply posted lol

Stefan wrote:

As well, I honestly agree with chromoxx that at least a brief explaination what has been changed could be posted for Ayyri's difficulties. It just makes it much harder for other people, especially BNs to track how many people and how many changes were done for said difficulty.

OzzyOzrock wrote:

lmao lets also please understand the difference between variation for the sake of variation and putting thought into changing notes so that when the song rehashes a melody it sounds and feels as nice as the last while remaining fresh

ofc structures and shit will be the same it's nuanced changes and the quality of them that make the difference

Backfire wrote:

this is the most lit thread of 2017

Nifty wrote:

So lemme boil down the reasons chromo popped this.

1. The patterns are boring (how ironic).

1. 00:02:094 - Until here I didn't hear an exclusive 1/4 sound, kkkkd fits on that spot and yet the others doesn't. The intro should be nerfed, as in reducing 00:01:139 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - this pattern which emphasizes literally nothing, and, here is a second suggestion for it: 00:00:935 (7,8) - Those notes should be deleted because the foreground sound stops at 00:00:866 (6) - this and continues on 00:01:139 (9) - this spot, no need to put a kdk over here.
2. 00:05:162 (52,53) - These two can be swapped, to emphasize the higher keyboard sounds and alter some variation.
3. 00:06:730 - I don't know if the buzzing sound is your aim to follow, but besides that, this stream fits to nothing, all I hear is 00:06:730 (70,74,78,80,82,84) - on those notes, which are the main sound is on. Mixing up instruments like that is might be a good way to variate it, but it's not clear that which instrument is followed then. For a section you can try following one instrument and switch one on another.
4. 00:08:094 (89,90,91) - The only 3-plet I hear is on these notes, which I assume you follow that, but else is 1/2 keyboard sound, which is overmapped by 00:07:821 (85,86,87,88) - these notes. My recommendation will be deleting 00:07:889 (86,88) - these notes, since the music goes calmer, and the only instrument that can be emphasized is the keyboard.
5. 00:10:003 - 00:14:366 - Sound-wise, those are different and yet the patterns are the same. It is a good place for variation, but for some reason you choose to put the exact same patterns on this. Something like 00:10:412 (105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113) - ddkdkkkkk works here better in my opinion.
6. 00:32:912 - I think this stream is unneccessary. While the music has gone louder, there are no sounds that supporting it, not even the weird vocals like on 00:32:094 - this spot for example. The patterns can be intense, but I'm against to have a stream on it.
7. 00:39:730 - I think a single don or kat is enough to emphasize this, the song's melody hardly changes and no need to increase density here. The buzzing "BAAA" sound is not an excuse to map 1/4 ddddk here. Following keyboards here will help you to keep a good structure, and maybe you can emphasize the sounds on it with a single note, like you did on clock ticks before.
8. 01:18:730 - Same opinions on the stream before, but the main think that caught me in the eye is: 01:19:821 (333,334,335,336,337,338,339,340,341,342) - what do these follow? They seem randomly mapped to me, just to keep density the same. Follow the melody instead.
9. 01:21:798 - This note seems excessive to me, while the sound stops there I don't think it's a good idea to put a note here.
10. 01:22:003 (354,355,356,357) - Due to keyboard pitch, I recommend k d d k, and 01:22:548 (358,359,360) - dkd 01:22:821 (361,362) - k k.
11. 01:36:185 - I think the stream should stop there because of 2 reasons: The music is not as intense as the previous section, and there is no stable structure between this stream and the 2nd one. The notes should be decreased, doublets can be used just for example by deleting 01:36:253 - 01:36:457 - 01:36:798 - 01:37:753 - and lastly 01:37:821 - this can be changed to don. And, 01:37:889 (515,517) - these two can be deleted.
12. 01:38:980 (528) - Not important, but the note is unsnapped by 1ms, and, my suggestion is to change this one to kat, since sound-wise 01:38:911 (527,528,529,530) - those four that you follow are the same, and the kat on 01:39:185 - this note is clearly to emphasize the higher note, so kkkdk is a good option to emphasize this one. Side note: These kinds of variations can be applied throughout the map, the patterns don't have to be exactly the same on a diff, some reducements on some patterns and changing the colors of them will help you to provide a better variation, because the map is consistent already.

frukoyurdakul wrote:

My opinion was asked so here I am for Ayyri's Outer Oni.

[Diff]

1. 00:02:094 - Until here I didn't hear an exclusive 1/4 sound, kkkkd fits on that spot and yet the others doesn't. The intro should be nerfed, as in reducing 00:01:139 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - this pattern which emphasizes literally nothing, and, here is a second suggestion for it: 00:00:935 (7,8) - Those notes should be deleted because the foreground sound stops at 00:00:866 (6) - this and continues on 00:01:139 (9) - this spot, no need to put a kdk over here. I don't think the intro necessarily needs to be nerfed, and that's because the way it is mapped right now acknowledges all of the breakcore drums in the background in a way that doesn't hurt the gameplay.
2. 00:05:162 (52,53) - These two can be swapped, to emphasize the higher keyboard sounds and alter some variation.
3. 00:06:730 - I don't know if the buzzing sound is your aim to follow, but besides that, this stream fits to nothing, all I hear is 00:06:730 (70,74,78,80,82,84) - on those notes, which are the main sound is on. Mixing up instruments like that is might be a good way to variate it, but it's not clear that which instrument is followed then. For a section you can try following one instrument and switch one on another. It is indeed mapped to the buzzer
4. 00:08:094 (89,90,91) - The only 3-plet I hear is on these notes, which I assume you follow that, but else is 1/2 keyboard sound, which is overmapped by 00:07:821 (85,86,87,88) - these notes. My recommendation will be deleting 00:07:889 (86,88) - these notes, since the music goes calmer, and the only instrument that can be emphasized is the keyboard.
5. 00:10:003 - 00:14:366 - Sound-wise, those are different and yet the patterns are the same. It is a good place for variation, but for some reason you choose to put the exact same patterns on this. Something like 00:10:412 (105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113) - ddkdkkkkk works here better in my opinion.
6. 00:32:912 - I think this stream is unneccessary. While the music has gone louder, there are no sounds that supporting it, not even the weird vocals like on 00:32:094 - this spot for example. The patterns can be intense, but I'm against to have a stream on it. There's actually those mega loud bass hits present throughout the entire measure, and seeing as it leads into a calmer part, I think it's quite a nice transition.
7. 00:39:730 - I think a single don or kat is enough to emphasize this, the song's melody hardly changes and no need to increase density here. The buzzing "BAAA" sound is not an excuse to map 1/4 ddddk here. Following keyboards here will help you to keep a good structure, and maybe you can emphasize the sounds on it with a single note, like you did on clock ticks before. I understand your point, however the buzz is present throughout the entire beat, and mapping 1/4 ddddk to emphasize that isn't a bad idea...it's like putting a tenuto mark on a quarter note, it needs to be emphasized for that entire beat.
8. 01:18:730 - Same opinions on the stream before, but the main think that caught me in the eye is: 01:19:821 (333,334,335,336,337,338,339,340,341,342) - what do these follow? They seem randomly mapped to me, just to keep density the same. Follow the melody instead. There's a certain sound that's being emphasized here with the stream, I'm just not quite sure how to describe it lol. It's scattered across the section before it but starting at 01:18:730 (317) - it is constantly present. Along with that, I think this stream works quite well as a transition too.
9. 01:21:798 - This note seems excessive to me, while the sound stops there I don't think it's a good idea to put a note here.
10. 01:22:003 (354,355,356,357) - Due to keyboard pitch, I recommend k d d k, and 01:22:548 (358,359,360) - dkd 01:22:821 (361,362) - k k. I can agree with the k d d k stuff, but I don't think anything else should be changed, the current notes reflect the pitch fairly well as it is.
11. 01:36:185 - I think the stream should stop there because of 2 reasons: The music is not as intense as the previous section, and there is no stable structure between this stream and the 2nd one. The notes should be decreased, doublets can be used just for example by deleting 01:36:253 - 01:36:457 - 01:36:798 - 01:37:753 - and lastly 01:37:821 - this can be changed to don. And, 01:37:889 (515,517) - these two can be deleted. I would agree if this difficulty was not meant to be really difficult, but it is-the stream changes it's structure to accommodate the heavier bass hits that begin at 01:36:185 (494) - . Because of that, I don't see a need to delete any notes in that stream.
12. 01:38:980 (528) - Not important, but the note is unsnapped by 1ms, and, my suggestion is to change this one to kat, since sound-wise 01:38:911 (527,528,529,530) - those four that you follow are the same, and the kat on 01:39:185 - this note is clearly to emphasize the higher note, so kkkdk is a good option to emphasize this one. Side note: These kinds of variations can be applied throughout the map, the patterns don't have to be exactly the same on a diff, some reducements on some patterns and changing the colors of them will help you to provide a better variation, because the map is consistent already.

I wouldn't change the color because I hate seeing triplets in streams, but also because the note can really stand as both a don or kat, so the change for one isn't needed imo.

About copy-paste: I disagree what Chromoxx say here, this map is not that similiar to make a judgement like this. Consistency is required, as well as variation. However, the patterns and overall structure seem not that good for me, so these are my suggestions to improve the diff further, alongside the similiar parts that should be changed as well. On the last statement of Taikocracy about making the diff hard compared to Inner, referring to:

it's hard to buff it without making it too similar to the inner

You can't do that unless the song allows you to do. Because of this reason, I see a lot of overmapped sections. This is not an excuse to map a harder diff, and I don't think it's acceptable. somewhat agreeable

Edit: There was a finisher after a 1/4 stream which iirc comes as dkkdK which is not good. Can't remember where it is now.

Chromoxx wrote:

Where is ayyri‘s reply to fruko‘s mod? zz

Chromoxx wrote:

Where is ayyri‘s reply to fruko‘s mod? zz

Stefan wrote:

I definitely rely to Nofool and fruko's posts since they are reliable sources when it comes to harder content. It doesn't matter if Nofool for example is not a BN, it is merely the non-ability to push the beatmap forward.

21:15 Nofool: feels way too overdone
21:15 Taikocracy: hmm
21:15 Nofool: its like streams everywhere and it doesnt quite reflect the melody
21:15 Nofool: imo

21:17 Nofool: it plays bad too me
21:17 Nofool: the only legit streams are at the end
21:17 Nofool: when it clearly sounds like streams
21:17 Nofool: the issue is that everything is stream at other places too

21:22 Nofool: i mean you should try to add breaks pretty much everywhere by using the main melody's beat

fruko wrote:

However, the patterns and overall structure seem not that good for me, so these are my suggestions to improve the diff further, alongside the similiar parts that should be changed as well.

fruko wrote:

it's hard to buff it without making it too similar to the inner

You can't do that unless the song allows you to do. Because of this reason, I see a lot of overmapped sections. This is not an excuse to map a harder diff, and I don't think it's acceptable.

Stefan wrote:

My post never explicitly said that Nofool or fruko were positive towards Outer Oni. I only said it has been checked by two people which are good players.

However, their posts neither were negative.

Noffy wrote:

well, yes they had concerns
and then the map changed because of them, improving it.
as a result of their experienced feedback.
(which chromoxxx has yet to substantially offer in a format that can actually improve the map despite his complaints? soon tm?)
😥
watching this thread is a trip

BN Rules wrote:

Do not nominate a beatmap if you are unsure of something. In such cases, ask fellow nominators for assistance before making any rushed decisions. This includes unfamiliar game modes, suspiciously gray area/unrankable issues, quality issues or complex timing.