Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. osu!
  3. Gameplay & Rankings
  4. osu!mania

Disable "accelerated/sudden stop" notes in osu! mania?

posted
Total Posts
34
Jawing
56 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
Jawing
Is there a way to disable "accelerated/sudden stop" notes in osu! mania?

It really bugs me as it creates inconsistency on how fast you should react to press these notes with the "accelerated" effect.

Particularly on this beatmap https://osu.ppy.sh/b/391999. Played Zillah's 4k Hard difficulty with 29 mania speed. As you can tell during the drop section of the map, some sections are accelerated.

I understand that it's mainly for the musical aesthetics of the Beatmap/SB and I think it's very cool and won't discredit any Beatmaps that are similar, although it would be nice to have an option to disable these effects. I'm a minimalist after all :)
ReTLoM
183 posts
Joined January 2013
ReTLoM
Thats part of your Skill :) SVs (Speed Variations) are simply a type of skill like Jumps, Chord-Streams, Inverts and so on. Just practice them and feel the rhythm of the song you should be able to play it :)

But im bad at it as well example :( 0:50-1:20
Jawing
56 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
Jawing
I don't mind universal speed variations (change in bpm).

Although I do not think visual speed variations are included in the calculation of the beatmap difficulty (someone tell me I'm wrong).
So essentially, you should be able to disable them.

I mean, imagine seeing a note a the top (at 40 mania speed) and it instantly goes to the bottom with 1 frame of travel. You'd have to memorize those parts O.O

I guess I'll deal with memorizing or so you call "feel the rhythm" for now :(
Tripletth
96 posts
Joined August 2014
Tripletth
Why not just use the editor to remove SV's?
Jawing
56 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
Jawing
That's the bruto force way. Of course, I could do that! Although I'd rather have a main menu option to disable it for all beatmaps :P
Caput Mortuum
1,854 posts
Joined March 2016
Caput Mortuum
It isn't calculated, however it is part of the map, and would be unfair to those who play with it. Also, some timing lines are needed for scroll speed normalization if the map has variable bpm. (map mainly in 100 bpm will need a 2x timing point if there is a change to 50 bpm, else it will scroll very slow)
I will agree if the option makes the map unranked.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
I think this belongs in feature requests
What I could find: t/221859
CommandoBlack
258 posts
Joined September 2015
CommandoBlack
Its the mapper who chooses how the notes are placed & what speed they come down. If you don't like the way the mapper did it mention it as a mod or delete the map. Simple
Yyorshire
213 posts
Joined September 2015
Yyorshire
cmod please
Yuudachi-kun
5,435 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

Yyorshire wrote:

cmod please
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

Jawing wrote:

I don't mind universal speed variations (change in bpm).

Although I do not think visual speed variations are included in the calculation of the beatmap difficulty (someone tell me I'm wrong).
So essentially, you should be able to disable them.

I mean, imagine seeing a note a the top (at 40 mania speed) and it instantly goes to the bottom with 1 frame of travel. You'd have to memorize those parts O.O

I guess I'll deal with memorizing or so you call "feel the rhythm" for now :(
Part of the problem is how do you figure out whether the mapper is using SVs to normalize a song with wandering BPM, vs someone using them purely for effect? It's technically possible but it's extremely difficult. Too difficult to be worth spending any time on.

Also, the map you linked as an example has some of the worst SVs of any ranked map except maybe the couple bad ones in Smooooch, and was ranked in the early days when hardly anyone knew anything about what made good SVs.

I used to hate speed changes when I first started playing rhythm games (I played stepmania and started using C speeds as soon as I discovered them). But when I switched to o2jam, that game only had speed multipliers, so any time the BPM changed, the scroll speed changed, and there was no way to disable that. I learned that there are 2 ways to deal with speed changes. Either learn to play them, or don't play the maps that have them. Now I love SVs, even though I play with FL mod, which makes dealing with SVs even harder.
Full Tablet
2,543 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet
You can remove SVs by changing all green timing points to x1.0, and changing all BPMs in red timing points to the same value (without doing note re-snapping); the only problem is the bar line if you are using it in your skin.

If you don't care about hitsounds/keysounds, you can also just remove all timing points except the first red one to do it faster.

Implementing constant scroll speed as a mod is not hard, just make the client ignore both BPM changes and SV changes in the beatmap. If the player is using BPM scale, use the most common BPM in the map as the base speed.

That mod shouldn't be unranked, instead, when looking at leaderboards, there should be an option to easily filter mods out (already possible if you use a script for seeing the site, though a considerable amount of players don't have those scripts installed). Also, it shouldn't give a pp penalty, since the star rating system doesn't account for SV changes; instead, either the difficulty system gives a bonus to star rating when maps have difficult-to-read SV changes, or make a ranking system where the players are ranked in more than 1 dimension, including SV-reading (like osu!stats or pp+ in osu!standard).
Tripletth
96 posts
Joined August 2014
Tripletth

Full Tablet wrote:

That mod shouldn't be unranked, instead, when looking at leaderboards, there should be an option to easily filter mods out (already possible if you use a script for seeing the site, though a considerable amount of players don't have those scripts installed). Also, it shouldn't give a pp penalty, since the star rating system doesn't account for SV changes; instead, either the difficulty system gives a bonus to star rating when maps have difficult-to-read SV changes, or make a ranking system where the players are ranked in more than 1 dimension, including SV-reading (like osu!stats or pp+ in osu!standard).
This is objectively wrong.
Yuudachi-kun
5,435 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Just implement Cmod and make it unranked because we all know that the only files worth playing are unranked anyways so it makes 0 difference
johnmedina999
296 posts
Joined October 2016
johnmedina999
SV is the other half of the map; some maps wouldn't be half as good if there was no SV.
Yyorshire
213 posts
Joined September 2015
Yyorshire
The reason mania needs a cmod isn't because SVs are a bad thing (although some maps could do without them) but it would help players familiarize themselves with the map they want to play, but can't because some SVs are near impossible to read without going into the editor and looking at where the notes are (i.e. Singularity). Cmod would alleviate the nuisance that this is all the while giving the player the experience and muscle memory of the map allowing for better performance when they decide to play with SVs.

And until SVs are incorporated into the SR system (which I doubt they will be), I don't believe the cmod should be ranked, as it's not how the map is intended to be played, although this is just my opinion.

Also unrank DT
Sandy Hoey
3,605 posts
Joined October 2015
Sandy Hoey
Feature request have their own forum, but please keep each post to one request
Yuudachi-kun
5,435 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

Yyorshire wrote:

Also unrank DT
Keep DT ranked so people know how much of a joke the osu mania pp and star rating system is
johnmedina999
296 posts
Joined October 2016
johnmedina999
Cmod would quickly become a clutch mod, as it so obviously is now. I believe this game is fine without cmod, if you want it that desperately go play stepmania.
Caput Mortuum
1,854 posts
Joined March 2016
Caput Mortuum
There's no need to unrank dt because that's not the main problem, but the whole ranking system in general.
Yyorshire
213 posts
Joined September 2015
Yyorshire

johnmedina999 wrote:

Cmod would quickly become a clutch mod, as it so obviously is now.
Even if it were to become one, what would be the issue in implementing it? If people would get more enjoyment out of a consistent scroll speed, then why not let them?

johnmedina999 wrote:

I believe this game is fine without cmod, if you want it that desperately go play stepmania.
What about all the maps on osu that I enjoy that aren't on stepmania? I typically enjoy SVs, but there are a couple of maps out there that would benefit my experience with them if they didn't have SVs. I "believe" that osu!mania would benefit from this system, but believing isn't ever a valid argument.
johnmedina999
296 posts
Joined October 2016
johnmedina999

Yyorshire wrote:

Even if it were to become one, what would be the issue in implementing it? If people would get more enjoyment out of a consistent scroll speed, then why not let them?
Because you and I both know that if cmod were to be implemented almost everyone minus absolte beginners would always have it on. This would lead to mappers being discouraged from creating SV maps anymore because no one is going to see them anyways. But of course you wouldn't mind this happening.

Yyorshire wrote:

What about all the maps on osu that I enjoy that aren't on stepmania? I typically enjoy SVs, but there are a couple of maps out there that would benefit my experience with them if they didn't have SVs. I "believe" that osu!mania would benefit from this system, but believing isn't ever a valid argument.
I use "believe" because I know that even if this was to get 10000 stars on Feature Requests it would still be unlikely to be implemented.

Really, we shouldn't even have fixed scroll speed. It should be on BPM, or even better, on multipliers.
Caput Mortuum
1,854 posts
Joined March 2016
Caput Mortuum

johnmedina999 wrote:

Really, we shouldn't even have fixed scroll speed. It should be on BPM, or even better, on multipliers.
fuck no
Yuudachi-kun
5,435 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
I suggest getting a lot more experience with mania
Meseki
29 posts
Here since the beginning
Meseki

johnmedina999 wrote:

Really, we shouldn't even have fixed scroll speed. It should be on BPM, or even better, on multipliers.
And create situations in which people time worse on certain arbitrary constant BPMs just because their ideal reading speed isn't available for those BPMs with the available multipliers? I'd rather not have a repeat of not being able to play one of my favorite songs in pop'n 13 at an ideal speed because of missing multiplier.
And even if you could set the multiplier very precisely (no less precise than every 0.01x), I'd rather not take out the calculator just to figure it out every time a BPM I don't remember shows up.



As for a CMod, I agree that it should exist as an unranked option. Even if SVs were implemented into difficulty calculation, I wouldn't trust it to be accurate for every situation, and even if it were for one person, it probably wouldn't be for some others (especially with things like high scroll speeds/FI or FL/HD, along with differing noteskin heights).
OperaMini0
63 posts
Joined January 2014
OperaMini0

Meseki wrote:

johnmedina999 wrote:

Really, we shouldn't even have fixed scroll speed. It should be on BPM, or even better, on multipliers.
And create situations in which people time worse on certain arbitrary constant BPMs just because their ideal reading speed isn't available for those BPMs with the available multipliers? I'd rather not have a repeat of not being able to play one of my favorite songs in pop'n 13 at an ideal speed because of missing multiplier.
And even if you could set the multiplier very precisely (no less precise than every 0.01x), I'd rather not take out the calculator just to figure it out every time a BPM I don't remember shows up.
You could set a speed based on the max/min/most used BPM like in LR2.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

johnmedina999 wrote:

Really, we shouldn't even have fixed scroll speed. It should be on BPM, or even better, on multipliers.
At one time, there was no "fixed" speed. Everything was BPM scaled. It sucked, because you constantly had to adjust your scroll speed based on the BPM of the song to try to get it as close as possible to your "ideal" scroll speed. In my case, I considered 150 bpm set to speed 18, and roughly every 10 bpm difference means I had to adjust up/down to account for the difference in bpm (so, 140 bpm = 19, 130 = 20, and 160 = 17, 170 = 16, etc.)

It took a lot of people complaining for things to change, but the compromise (or really, peppy's ruling) was that BPM scaling was still going to be default because IIDX inspired peppy and since bpm scaling is how IIDX does it, that's how o!m will do it by default. Of course, this decision was and still is terrible because it makes things more difficult for newcomers (since most new players don't necessarily know how to change the speed let alone switch to fixed speeds) but that's getting a bit off topic.

As for the idea of adding SVs to difficulty calculation, it's simply not feasible. There's absolutely no way to accurately model any sort of difficulty rating for SVs that would work well enough in enough situations to be worthwhile. There are so many different ways to make SVs that it would be too easy to manipulate star rating with them, and star rating would be even more inaccurate than it currently is.

Additionally, if a cmod style option were ever added there's absolutely no way peppy would allow it to be ranked, because in case any of you people haven't paid attention to peppy's attitude toward the game, he strongly believes that mappers should have a lot of control over how a player experiences a map. In standard, it took years of complaints before peppy added the ability to dim backgrounds in-game rather than force players to replace the background with a black image. And peppy also was not happy about allowing players to override a map's custom skin with the player's own. (I'm quite sketchy on the details about those events, but this is how I remember things. Anyone with better knowledge on those events can feel free to correct me)
Yuudachi-kun
5,435 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Holy shit that last paragraph is so hilarious.
OperaMini0
63 posts
Joined January 2014
OperaMini0

Full Tablet wrote:

That mod shouldn't be unranked, instead, when looking at leaderboards, there should be an option to easily filter mods out
Even random is unranked here, you're expecting too much.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Bobbias wrote:

Additionally, if a cmod style option were ever added there's absolutely no way peppy would allow it to be ranked, because in case any of you people haven't paid attention to peppy's attitude toward the game, he strongly believes that mappers should have a lot of control over how a player experiences a map. In standard, it took years of complaints before peppy added the ability to dim backgrounds in-game rather than force players to replace the background with a black image. And peppy also was not happy about allowing players to override a map's custom skin with the player's own. (I'm quite sketchy on the details about those events, but this is how I remember things. Anyone with better knowledge on those events can feel free to correct me)
Underrated comment.

On the bright side, he is planning to push more of that control towards the dev/modding community, which will hopefully be giving the game the features it is missing out on in the future
Reckless
17 posts
Joined September 2016
Reckless
As much as I hate them they are apart of the game and here to stay.

I personally really like maps like this one https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1073952&m=3 even though I am only able to get an 83% on it.
Yuudachi-kun
5,435 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
They aren't part of the game if you don't want them to be

>> find nsv converts or edit file yourself
[ Scarlet Red ]
379 posts
Joined September 2013
[ Scarlet Red ]
SV changes can be incredibly fun if you know how to play them properly.

For me, I used to hate SV changes, but after I constantly kept practicing SVs they became fun and definitely more enjoyable.

It gives charts character and that's something I admire from them.

Sure some charts could definitely do without SV changes, but there are a lot of charts that wouldn't be nearly as fun (like: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/299842 imo)
Celestia_old_1
Celestia_old_1
cmod when?
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
1 / 34