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Chorogons - Ishukan Communication

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emilia
ko short song bles i try my best
[in]
  1. wow ok i can't play this diff at all, a lot of rhythm and distance choices i can't really agree with\

    distance:
  2. 00:00:839 (2,3,4) - too similar for different time difference
  3. 00:00:839 (2,3) - vs 00:01:580 (1,2) - inconsistent distance for same timing
  4. 00:27:796 (3,4,5,6,7) - was stuck with the idea that 1/3 meant stack, but then 7 suddenly transitioned into a nonstack and its very uncomfortable to play
  5. 00:32:706 (5,1,2,3,4) - slower SV but huge spacing? would prefer the spacing to be a lot smaller considering its 1/3 and its the slow section
  6. 00:34:188 (1,2) - the inconsistent spacing is really messing me up, do you want to stack all 1/3 or not because it gets very very messy
  7. 00:50:863 (2,3,4) - make the distance more different
  8. 00:54:197 (1,2) - vs 00:54:753 (3,4) - vs 00:54:939 (4,5) - , 1st and 2nd have the same timing difference but has very different distances, 2nd and 3rd have similar distances but very different timing
  9. 00:56:606 (2,3,1) - the stack and nonstack having the same timing here is very jarring and surprising to play
  10. 01:27:268 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - these are mapped on 1/4 shouldnt their distances be more different?

    turn on distance snap or something. mapping distances freely on 1/3 on an anime song with fairly consistent intensities is very very unintuitive to play. it just looks very messy since there is no consistency with how you handle 1/3 distances. a lot of the time i was confused as to whether it was a 1/3 or 1/4 or if it was a 1/6 or a 1/3 because of the weird way you used distances. these issues repeat throughout the map and if no consistency is achieved players cannot effectively play this map.

    rhythm:
  11. 00:05:008 - why are so many big white ticks missed as click beats?? what is the purpose of that?
  12. 00:11:400 (2) - what do you actually hear on the reverse cuz i hear nothing
  13. 00:18:625 (1,1,1,1) - would suggest you just map this as 1/3 instead, even though it doesnt sound like it, it fits better with the playing aspect of it
  14. 00:21:034 (2) - the slidertail is the strong beat here, i can never hit this on time because i keep thinking the slider starts on the drum. the vocal here shouldnt be required to be a clickbeat because imo its a lot less important than the drum, though you can map it with a slidertail
  15. 00:26:036 (1,2) - similarly^
  16. 00:39:654 - is there really a need to skip this? you've definitely mapped more intricate rhythms for held vocal notes before
  17. 00:43:544 (5) - similar to above with vocal-drum emphasis
  18. 00:44:656 - 00:44:749 - why not just map 00:44:471 (3) - as 2 sliders
  19. 00:45:027 (1,1,1,1,1,1) - this looks alright at best, and its also not doing a good job of mapping strong beats to the song. just dont
  20. 00:50:492 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - 00:52:715 (1,2,3,4,5) - for whatever reason you've chosen to map 2 similar song sections in very different ways which emphasise very different beats; sometimes its vocals, sometimes its drums, sometimes its a weird mix of both(??) this is bound to get players confused with when to tap
  21. 00:59:385 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - 01:01:608 (1,2,3,4) - similar^
  22. 01:05:684 (3,4) - what do you hear here exactly because yet again i hear nothing
  23. 01:27:268 (1,2) - 01:28:102 (1,2) - suggest mapping this as 1/3 as well or at least in sliders

    the way you did your rhythms was really messy. 80% of the time im not very certain of what you were trying to emphasise. consider revising your rhythm by adding clickbeats to only strong sounds (esp drums) and mapping the vocal through slidertails which is a lot more applicable in my opinion. often, the vocal is deemed inconsistent, so mapping them as clickbeats will only confuse the player. try getting more playthroughs and asking for opinions because maybe i'm just bad at the game looool
i'll only mod this one diff, its too tiring to look at and play
GRsama
For Insane
i hate this map, such as:
00:17:514 (4) -
00:19:737 (2) -
00:24:184 (6) -
this contraction speed is too fast + is not easy to find the drums(such as↑↑↑)
I wasn't particularly good, maybe I was too weak.(Wry smile ;) )
For map everything else is good(applause!!)XD

对于Insane
我不喜欢这个图的某些地方,比如:
00:1 7:514 (4) -
00:1 9:737 (2) -
00:2 4:184 (6) -
这种缩圈过快的谱面+ 不容易发现的滑条后承接单点(比如上面那三个鼓点为例)
对我这个新手的体验不是特别好,可能是我太弱了吧(苦笑)
地图整体还不错呢(鼓掌!!)XD
Topic Starter
Pho
Monstrata

Monstrata wrote:

Hard
00:48:825 - Was kinda expecting a circle here too. I feel a better emphasis on the start of the slider is more important here than on the previous ones.

Normal

00:36:134 (1,2) - This part felt rather empty, considering the vocals. Given how low the intensity the music is at this point, I think this should be appropriate.
01:11:706 (1,2,3,4) - Same here. The rhythm just feels so much sparser than 01:13:929 (1,2,3,4,5) - Undermapping feels really neat at this point though before bursting again at 01:13:929 - . It's kind of the same thing i did in Moesane

[]

Got metadata somewhere? Good set, you can call me back ^^

@Sonnyc: 00:46:138 (2) - The synth sound in the background has no 100% accurate point for snapping, and I'd rather go with the one that keeps the rhythm stable to play. Also i'd have to do the same for the lower diffs which is kinda unintuitive.

Emilia

Emilia wrote:

ko short song bles i try my best
[in]
  1. wow ok i can't play this diff at all, a lot of rhythm and distance choices i can't really agree with\

    distance:
  2. 00:00:839 (2,3,4) - too similar for different time difference
  3. 00:00:839 (2,3) - vs 00:01:580 (1,2) - inconsistent distance for same timing
  4. 00:27:796 (3,4,5,6,7) - was stuck with the idea that 1/3 meant stack, but then 7 suddenly transitioned into a nonstack and its very uncomfortable to play the spacing was chosen in a way that it's both fairly playable and highlighting the vocal pitch in this section. This one's a bit tricky yea, but I don't agree with the uncomfortable play, i tested it myself
  5. 00:32:706 (5,1,2,3,4) - slower SV but huge spacing? would prefer the spacing to be a lot smaller considering its 1/3 and its the slow section Spacings are bigger and flow more jarring due to irregular vocal notes.
  6. 00:34:188 (1,2) - the inconsistent spacing is really messing me up, do you want to stack all 1/3 or not because it gets very very messy
  7. 00:50:863 (2,3,4) - make the distance more different
  8. 00:54:197 (1,2) - vs 00:54:753 (3,4) - vs 00:54:939 (4,5) - , 1st and 2nd have the same timing difference but has very different distances, 2nd and 3rd have similar distances but very different timing
  9. 00:56:606 (2,3,1) - the stack and nonstack having the same timing here is very jarring and surprising to play disagree here, it might be a bit unexpected coming from 0 momentum to fastslider->sliderjump, but nothing that would be that uncomfortable to play and it fits the song well
  10. 01:27:268 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - these are mapped on 1/4 shouldnt their distances be more different? Given the way how I spaced things on this map, there's no good way to make it distinct from the 1/3 rhythms.. and I don't think it's necessary either. The current ones are fine.

    turn on distance snap or something. mapping distances freely on 1/3 on an anime song with fairly consistent intensities is very very unintuitive to play. it just looks very messy since there is no consistency with how you handle 1/3 distances. a lot of the time i was confused as to whether it was a 1/3 or 1/4 or if it was a 1/6 or a 1/3 because of the weird way you used distances. these issues repeat throughout the map and if no consistency is achieved players cannot effectively play this map. If you replace 1/3 with 1/2 in your first sentences you have basically the same issue that existed years ago before people decided to put DS off. This song is already based on 1/3 for about 96% of its duration, so variation in spacing should be appropriate to not make it monotonous and I tried do it in a fair and intuitive way - which also works. I really can't agree with you on that point, I tp'd the map myself several dozen times along with some other testplayers and I never got the complaint about unintuitive gameplay. Maybe it's because my focus of the map was primarily on vocals which makes it confusing to play for you?

    rhythm:
  11. 00:05:008 - why are so many big white ticks missed as click beats?? what is the purpose of that? Vocals are prioritized throughout the whole map, and this is reflected on the way i layed out my rhythm - so white beats were left out on purpose in order to emphasize the vocal layer better.
  12. 00:11:400 (2) - what do you actually hear on the reverse cuz i hear nothing it fits the sound well enough at this point
  13. 00:18:625 (1,1,1,1) - would suggest you just map this as 1/3 instead, even though it doesnt sound like it, it fits better with the playing aspect of it see 1st explanation on 'rhythm'
  14. 00:21:034 (2) - the slidertail is the strong beat here, i can never hit this on time because i keep thinking the slider starts on the drum. the vocal here shouldnt be required to be a clickbeat because imo its a lot less important than the drum, though you can map it with a slidertail see 1st explanation on 'rhythm'
  15. 00:26:036 (1,2) - similarly^ see 1st explanation on 'rhythm'
  16. 00:39:654 - is there really a need to skip this? you've definitely mapped more intricate rhythms for held vocal notes before Don't think it's necessary to map it out here and it adds more emphasis on the 00:40:024 - 00:40:302 - sounds this way
  17. 00:43:544 (5) - similar to above with vocal-drum emphasis see 1st explanation on 'rhythm'
  18. 00:44:656 - 00:44:749 - why not just map 00:44:471 (3) - as 2 sliders see 1st explanation on 'rhythm'
  19. 00:45:027 (1,1,1,1,1,1) - this looks alright at best, and its also not doing a good job of mapping strong beats to the song. just dont Sorry, but these are more interesting to follow and notorious than the 'stronger' beats of the drums.
  20. 00:50:492 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - 00:52:715 (1,2,3,4,5) - for whatever reason you've chosen to map 2 similar song sections in very different ways which emphasise very different beats; sometimes its vocals, sometimes its drums, sometimes its a weird mix of both(??) this is bound to get players confused with when to tap Overall logic behind this is: Make the first part tap-heavier because vocals are higher-pitched as is the intensity of the song, and decrease density on the second because pitch goes down.
  21. 00:59:385 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - 01:01:608 (1,2,3,4) - similar^ ^
  22. 01:05:684 (3,4) - what do you hear here exactly because yet again i hear nothing umm, I hear clear beats on those
  23. 01:27:268 (1,2) - 01:28:102 (1,2) - suggest mapping this as 1/3 as well or at least in sliders 1/3 would be completely wrong here. Sliders might be an alternative, but given how strong those beats are I prefer circles at this place.

    the way you did your rhythms was really messy. 80% of the time im not very certain of what you were trying to emphasise. consider revising your rhythm by adding clickbeats to only strong sounds (esp drums) and mapping the vocal through slidertails which is a lot more applicable in my opinion. often, the vocal is deemed inconsistent, so mapping them as clickbeats will only confuse the player. try getting more playthroughs and asking for opinions because maybe i'm just bad at the game looool I can't see how my rhythm choices are messy, you didn't seem to notice that a very major part of it is based on the vocals. I agree on vocals not being the best choice to set the foundation of your rhythm patterns on, but in this case they are very consistent in following the swing rhythm, with very few exceptions such as 00:18:625 (1,2,3,4) - or the final 1/4 patterns. Focussing on drumbeats can be an option too, but this is clearly not my intention here and would make the map generic as hell to play on a song that can deliver more than that - at least for me.
i'll only mod this one diff, its too tiring to look at and play Well, can't please everyone. I fixed some things that you mentioned to mitigate the problems that you see on the map, so thanks - really appreciate it.

@GRsama: Can't speak chinese, sorry. Not sure what you mean with your points, but they are fairly playable for me.

Thanks everyone for the mods! Fixed the uncommented stuff as always
Lasse
nice ravioli tags 👀

kick hitnormal seems to blend a bit much on its own, how about using https://puu.sh/wVwLz/85c1fd23ed.wav which is the same but has the default soft-hitnormal added

tickrate 2 on top diff works fine, but on hard+normal it becomes so weird since it adds a tick on sliders like 01:01:608 (3) - which also becomes invisible, it doesn't get rendered cause it overlaps t he tail

00:35:022 - some kind of additional sample would be nice on this (most likely softw)

insane
00:04:360 (4) - would be great to map a double here to not skip over snare+melody here
00:08:806 (4) - ^ think that would make rhythm much more intuitive
00:23:257 (2,3,4,5) - looks so unfitting with your other visuals in this part, mainly due to using so many different overlap spacings
01:28:380 (3) - would use like 15% volume cause ticks don't fit well

hard
00:04:360 (7,8) - I think these become a bit lol readability wise for this level of difficulty cause of the perfect stacking, might be nice to manually stack these or just overlap like similar 1/6 patterns
01:15:596 (1,2) - removing the normal samples on the tails here would make it much more intuitive to play I, they give so much feedback and the sounds in the song aren't that outstanding anyways

normal
00:37:245 (3) - would at least put a whistle or something on this. I mean rhythm isn't really optimal, the way you did it on higher diffs is nicer, but I can't come up with a good solution for that either
00:41:414 (2) - could just delete this, it's such an insignificant beat and takes way from the more important ones
or actually be consistent in what you follow on 00:40:580 (1,2,3,1,2,3) -
01:04:480 (5) - curving this a bit in either direction would look cute with the other objects here
01:17:264 (3) - would put a whistle here too, hitsounding is kinda empty cause you mapped different things on higher diffs and tail gives more feedback than head right now

should be all
Topic Starter
Pho

Lasse wrote:

nice ravioli tags 👀 :eyes:

kick hitnormal seems to blend a bit much on its own, how about using https://puu.sh/wVwLz/85c1fd23ed.wav which is the same but has the default soft-hitnormal added

tickrate 2 on top diff works fine, but on hard+normal it becomes so weird since it adds a tick on sliders like 01:01:608 (3) - which also becomes invisible, it doesn't get rendered cause it overlaps t he tail Hmm, didn't feel that wrong to me tbh but i guess i can adjust it for the lower diffs

00:35:022 - some kind of additional sample would be nice on this (most likely softw)

insane
00:04:360 (4) - would be great to map a double here to not skip over snare+melody here doesn't really work out for me at this point since i really want to highlight the vocals here
00:08:806 (4) - ^ think that would make rhythm much more intuitive ^. I'd rather stick to vocals here as well, it's my primary focus.
00:23:257 (2,3,4,5) - looks so unfitting with your other visuals in this part, mainly due to using so many different overlap spacings spaced the double away from the sliders, should be good now
01:28:380 (3) - would use like 15% volume cause ticks don't fit well

hard
00:04:360 (7,8) - I think these become a bit lol readability wise for this level of difficulty cause of the perfect stacking, might be nice to manually stack these or just overlap like similar 1/6 patterns
01:15:596 (1,2) - removing the normal samples on the tails here would make it much more intuitive to play I, they give so much feedback and the sounds in the song aren't that outstanding anyways

normal
00:37:245 (3) - would at least put a whistle or something on this. I mean rhythm isn't really optimal, the way you did it on higher diffs is nicer, but I can't come up with a good solution for that either
00:41:414 (2) - could just delete this, it's such an insignificant beat and takes way from the more important ones
or actually be consistent in what you follow on 00:40:580 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - did the 2nd, although not the most intuitive thing to do lol
01:04:480 (5) - curving this a bit in either direction would look cute with the other objects here
01:17:264 (3) - would put a whistle here too, hitsounding is kinda empty cause you mapped different things on higher diffs and tail gives more feedback than head right now

should be all
Fixed all the non-commented stuff, thanks lasse!
zigizigiefe
Notes should be 3/16, not 1/6
/me runs
Topic Starter
Pho
1/6 should be accurate enough already since vocals are the focus of my maps. will discuss it with the BNs though.
Monstrata
Notes should be 1/6

Sry, forgot about this map (as usual). Ephemeral reminded me actually lol...
Lasse
wheres my kd :((((((

agree on 1/6 and the taiko map of this got unranked for using the other snapping so lol
just a few things before I qualify:
insane
00:19:042 (4) - sounds weird cause vocal seems to be on the next 1/3 tick

hard
00:18:903 (2) - similar here, should probably end on the next 1/3 tick

you also mapped it as 1/3 on normal lol

normal
00:37:245 (3) - sliderwhistle is probably not intentional


also this:

which is also what taiko version uses and it has been checked for that apparently
zigizigiefe

Pho wrote:

1/6 should be accurate enough already since vocals are the focus of my maps. will discuss it with the BNs though.
Actually I was joking. You may snap by 3/16 or 1/6, which you want. I think it's more optional. If you want more opinion about snapping, see Unmei's post.
Topic Starter
Pho
Fixed the title and the broken hitsound. Left the snappings on Hard/Insane because 1/4 play intuitively to Kanna vocals and suddenly switching to 1/3 right in the pattern isn't very nice
Lasse
where is monstrata 👀

since bn tiers are not a thing anymore I'm just going to rebubble instead of waiting for him to do that
Monstrata
👀
Asuka_-
(^^♪
Shortthu
gratz Phở!
Weber
inb4 skylish
Milan-
chorongos
Raiden
Hello. I would like to inquire as to why hasn't this map used the spliced 108 BPM timing that the staff provided on the other version...? I mean Ephemeral himself insisted on having that one.



(from p/6212001)
Topic Starter
Pho
I asked a QAT member to look into this set as I was made aware of the timing issue, the same day it was qualified. But it seems like it either wasn't too critical for a disqualification or they just forgot about it (and me as well tbh until you mentioned it again).
Not-Miraie
Oh my giddy aunt, I miss Maido Dragon. good beatmap btw
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