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*namirin - Mawaru Sora Usagi [OsuMania]

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Garalulu
I wanna hear your opinion about the hitsounding structure, still don't understand what's going on.
plz tell me how to hitsound this map, yeah give me the detail.
Koibenii

Garalulu wrote:

I wanna hear your opinion about the hitsounding structure, still don't understand what's going on.
plz tell me how to hitsound this map, yeah give me the detail.
Hmm. First off, I just want to inform you that I did not add the samples/hitsounds manually. I just got the mp3 of the song (off vocal) and converted it to midi and made Automap-chan do the work of putting up the hitsounds. Her hitsounding was a bit off-sync compared to the original since it was a cover and I had to manually adjust the offsets of each note and on what notes to retain.

So basically, the hitsounding in general follows the piano part, if you would notice from the source. That's it. :) No improvs, no effects, just natural piano sounds. Each note has a piano hitsound which corresponds to the off-vocal version, and adjusted to fit the original.

Kindly see below for some hitsound fixes with Prot:
IRC mod with prot
14:08 JztCallMeRon: hi 
14:08 Protastic101: o/
14:08 JztCallMeRon: lmao
14:08 JztCallMeRon: im afraid of asking on whether you would want to work on sky rabbit stuff xd
14:08 Protastic101: name ur samples better
14:08 Protastic101: smh
14:09 JztCallMeRon: smh
14:09 JztCallMeRon: ye fml
14:10 Protastic101: tfw no sky rabbit for me
14:10 Protastic101: sure tho, give me just a sec to finish getting some samples
14:10 JztCallMeRon: okay sure
14:10 JztCallMeRon: im just gonna farm 12pp for std
14:14 Protastic101: tfw no pp for me smh
14:14 Protastic101: Alright, ready whenever you are
14:14 JztCallMeRon: okay lets go
14:14 Protastic101: gotta go find those spots I pointed out to surf lul
14:15 Protastic101: oh, i deleted all my bookmarks
14:15 JztCallMeRon: whats up
14:15 Protastic101: well
14:15 JztCallMeRon: HAHA
14:15 Protastic101: ok first off before we do anything
14:15 Protastic101: I have to reiterate
14:15 Protastic101: the sample naming is s h i t
14:15 Protastic101: now that that's out of my system
14:15 JztCallMeRon: i know
14:15 JztCallMeRon: lmao
14:15 JztCallMeRon: used automap chan
14:15 JztCallMeRon: and voila
14:19 Protastic101: ok
14:19 *Protastic101 is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1228750 *namirin - Mawaru Sora Usagi [Sky Rabbit]]
14:19 Protastic101: Im using top diff as reference
14:19 Protastic101: 02:46:187 (166187|0) - should be F6
14:19 Protastic101: 02:46:444 (166444|1) - G#6
14:20 JztCallMeRon: oh that one
14:20 JztCallMeRon: nice
14:20 JztCallMeRon: applied
14:22 Protastic101: 02:47:454 - D#6
14:23 Protastic101: 02:47:696 - G#6
14:23 Protastic101: this should be sampled
14:23 Protastic101: in the storyboard, not replacing 02:47:454 (167454|2,167696|3) -
14:24 JztCallMeRon: wait how do i add sb elements again?
14:24 JztCallMeRon: nvm i added it
14:24 JztCallMeRon: xd
14:25 Protastic101: sample import menu, instead of "apply", below that to the left is "sample"
14:25 JztCallMeRon: ctrl+double left clicked
14:27 Protastic101: 02:48:999 (168999|3,169035|2) - in order, A#6, D#7
14:29 Protastic101: 00:17:162 - Starting here, the 1/1 staccato notes on the left hand part still play but you only map half of them. I would suggest adding them to the 2nd and 4th downbeats to continue the sound, like on 00:17:662 (17662|0,18662|2,19662|3,20662|6) - with these notes having the same pitch as the note 1/1 before it
14:31 JztCallMeRon: meaning
14:31 JztCallMeRon: ill add another c#3 on those points?
14:33 Protastic101: uh
14:33 Protastic101: for the first one yeah
14:33 Protastic101: 00:18:662 (18662|2) - but then this one is F3 cause the note before it, 00:18:162 (18162|2) - is F3
14:33 Protastic101: it follows the same chord progression as 00:01:162 -
14:34 JztCallMeRon: oh okay
14:34 JztCallMeRon: thanks
14:34 Protastic101: Doing this also solves the problem of double hitsounds everywhere on the jumps
14:34 JztCallMeRon: mmmm
14:34 JztCallMeRon: so for here
14:34 JztCallMeRon: 00:17:662 (17662|5,17662|0) -
14:34 JztCallMeRon: ill remove one a#5 and replace it with the lower pitch?
14:35 Protastic101: yeah
14:35 JztCallMeRon: okay
14:36 Protastic101: da da da, da da da, da da da, DA Da da, da da da, da da da,
14:36 Protastic101: oh god
14:37 Protastic101: 00:40:162 (40162|1,40162|0) - d o u b l e h i t s o u n d s
14:37 Protastic101: Just import them both at 31% and it solves the problem
14:37 JztCallMeRon: okay done
14:37 JztCallMeRon: applied also
14:37 JztCallMeRon: lmao now i get why you're saying my naming sense is shit
14:38 JztCallMeRon: xd
14:38 Protastic101: but the sample itself is too long and drags into 00:41:162 - which sounds u g h
14:38 Protastic101: wtf that fast
14:38 Protastic101: jesus christ, i take like 3 hours after a suggestion to finish applying
14:38 Protastic101: your naming sense isnt just shit
14:38 Protastic101: it's t r a s h
14:38 Protastic101: jkjk
14:38 JztCallMeRon: xdxd
14:38 JztCallMeRon: its okay
14:39 JztCallMeRon: oh i deleted the shortened one
14:39 Protastic101: 95% of people who do keysounds always just take raika samples or something and never bother renaming and so I always have to take like 2x as long to go through keysounds
14:39 JztCallMeRon: this one i got from dh
14:40 Protastic101: ss m h
14:41 Protastic101: 00:41:162 - in this section you're kind of missing a vital part of the music, and that's the connecting 1/2 note that shares a pitch with the one before it
14:41 Protastic101: meaning
14:41 JztCallMeRon: im missing the higher pitch
14:41 JztCallMeRon: right?
14:43 Protastic101: 00:41:912 (41912|2,42912|4,43912|6,44912|0,45912|2,46912|4) - should all share the same pitch as the 1st and 3rd downbeat, 00:41:162 (41162|2,42162|1,43162|3,44162|0,45162|6,46162|1) - respectively
14:43 Protastic101: those are just examples, it follows this same pattern up until 00:57:162 -
14:44 Protastic101: it changes at 00:57:162 - because it's instead of Pitch A - Pitch B, it's Pitch A - Pitch A - Pitch B
14:44 Protastic101: starting on the 2nd and 4th downbeats, so 00:57:662 - 00:57:912 - should share the same pitch as 00:57:162 - in this example
14:44 Protastic101: for notes like 00:57:662 (57662|5) - where there's only one note available, add the C#3 to the storyboard
14:45 JztCallMeRon: okay wait
14:46 JztCallMeRon: im still digesting the first one lmao
14:46 Protastic101: rip lol
14:48 Protastic101: Anyways, Ima throw some more suggestions real quick before I forget and also cause I wanna get to bed soon so I can procrastinate more by watching dumb youtube videos that add nothing to my life
14:48 JztCallMeRon: okay
14:48 JztCallMeRon: so basically
14:48 JztCallMeRon: 00:41:912 (41912|2,42912|4,43912|6,44912|0,45912|2,46912|4) - should have downpitches
14:48 Protastic101: 01:13:162 - you gotta halve the volume of all these samples by 2 cause leaving them as double hs on 62% makes them add to a total combined vol of 124% lol
14:48 Protastic101: ye
14:48 JztCallMeRon: okay
14:49 Protastic101: dont forget the others too
14:49 JztCallMeRon: okay
14:49 Protastic101: 00:57:162 - and remember pattern changes here from A-B to A-A-B
14:50 JztCallMeRon: hmm
14:50 JztCallMeRon: isnt it a bit weird?
14:50 JztCallMeRon: for me at least
14:50 Protastic101: 01:19:162 (79162|4,79162|3,79162|1,79662|3,79662|4,79662|1) - yes i'd like more sample volume with my music thanks
14:50 JztCallMeRon: LMAO
14:51 Protastic101: Shouldn't be, it should just be the same pitch as the downbeat prior it
14:53 Protastic101: yeah, otherwise i think it's finne
14:53 Protastic101: fine*
14:54 Protastic101: 01:21:162 - same pattern I've been nagging you about at 00:41:162 - applies in the first kiai and break between first and second kiai
14:57 Protastic101: 01:53:162 - uh, there's something slightly different about this section though. It's every upbeat that follows the same pitch as the upbeat before, so for example, 01:53:412 (113412|2,113412|4,113912|3,113912|6) - share a pitch, and 01:54:412 (114412|5,114412|3,114912|5,114912|2) - share a different pitch
14:59 Protastic101: in this case, it's G#4 for the first set, and F4 for the second set
15:00 Protastic101: i think, might wanna double check me on that cause there's a lot going on in this section so I could mistake stuff
15:01 JztCallMeRon: so for this one
15:01 Protastic101: anyways, time's really gone by lol, I need to head to sleep
15:01 JztCallMeRon: ill have to volume to 20.67?
15:01 Protastic101: discord pm me stuff if you need help, and ill respond in the morning
15:02 JztCallMeRon: yeah sure
15:02 JztCallMeRon: goodnight o/
15:02 JztCallMeRon: sleep well
15:02 Protastic101: just do 21% and round up to a full number
15:02 JztCallMeRon: ill be applying changes as i save the log
15:02 Protastic101: I mean, it does get a little louder with the triples so you could get away with setting stuff at 30% or smth
15:02 Protastic101: but up to you
15:02 Protastic101: im out
15:02 Protastic101: night o/
15:03 Protastic101: also make sure surf has you added in tags or i will be :a n g e r y:
15:03 JztCallMeRon: ill be more angery than you if that happens

If there's still anything that you would like to clarify, just reply to this thread :D
Topic Starter
SurfChu85
15:03 Protastic101: also make sure surf has you added in tags or i will be :a n g e r y:
15:03 JztCallMeRon: ill be more angery than you if that happens



fixed
Garalulu
I don't know how to use automap-chan x3
just what I want is the rule, the hitsounding rule.
Last diff has no problem tho cause the program did it perfectly. (Prot the hitsound master, save me)
But what I look is other diffs.

Easy has some samples at blank point, because it's easy diff so can't add more notes.
00:17:412 - Like this. there is no note, but sample sound G#5S_Ab5S_s.wav, same sound with last diff.

The diff doesn't have enough place to hitsound so automap-chan(maybe?) used the sample thing. Oki I understand your hitsounding rule!

But something is wrong.

00:17:662 - Last diff has C#3S_Db3S_s.wav, but it doesn't.

Something is hitsounded at background but something is not. so I confused about the rule yeah

Hard diff even didn't have sample sound anything at this part 00:17:162 - 00:33:162 - , it should be hitsounded as Easy diff showed if I understand the rule actually!

So What I wanna is, take a look manually, there are many issues with hitsounding actually.

Add more background hitsound if there is no place to add hitsound something as Sky Rabbit.

Or delete all background hitsound at Easy and Normal so the rule can be clarified, "I just hitsound at notes only, if there is no room I didn't add anything more."
Koibenii

Garalulu wrote:

I don't know how to use automap-chan x3
just what I want is the rule, the hitsounding rule.
Last diff has no problem tho cause the program did it perfectly. (Prot the hitsound master, save me)
But what I look is other diffs.

Easy has some samples at blank point, because it's easy diff so can't add more notes.
00:17:412 - Like this. there is no note, but sample sound G#5S_Ab5S_s.wav, same sound with last diff.

The diff doesn't have enough place to hitsound so automap-chan(maybe?) used the sample thing. Oki I understand your hitsounding rule!

But something is wrong.

00:17:662 - Last diff has C#3S_Db3S_s.wav, but it doesn't.

Something is hitsounded at background but something is not. so I confused about the rule yeah

Hard diff even didn't have sample sound anything at this part 00:17:162 - 00:33:162 - , it should be hitsounded as Easy diff showed if I understand the rule actually!

So What I wanna is, take a look manually, there are many issues with hitsounding actually.

Add more background hitsound if there is no place to add hitsound something as Sky Rabbit.

Or delete all background hitsound at Easy and Normal so the rule can be clarified, "I just hitsound at notes only, if there is no room I didn't add anything more."
Okay I think I get your point now. We would like to confirm that the hitsounding rule is to add hitsounds at the storyboard if there is no place to add anymore (e.g. Easy and Normal diff). The justification is to provide the players the full experience of playing the mapset with constant keysounding.

Discussion with surf concerning the hitsounding rule:
http://puu.sh/z6rz5/a77e49241b.png
http://puu.sh/z6rA0/467f8003bf.png

Also, I have renamed the samples to a shorter one (since prot is nagging me ever since who knows when)

Update:
http://puu.sh/z6rrF/63068e6ee7.rar
Garalulu
chex
Asherz007
"G#5S.wav" is unused, delete pls

Do ensure that there's as little delay on the hitsounds as possible, as I do believe some of them are cutting it close.

So, uh, you have a .osb for storyboarded hitsounds and there's still storyboarded samples in the top diff... idk man, you're confusing me lol. If they're just going to be in all of the diffs, you can move them to the .osb.

Okay, aside from that, I still have a fair few hitsound concerns. I'll try to catch as much as I can, but I'm human so bear with me if I don't find everything. I'll use the top diff as my reference point, else I'd be here forever.

To the hitsounder
Anything you don't understand/need more examples, feel free to ask.

Storyboarded hitsounds that increase the volume
Example: 00:17:162

Okay, so the issue I have here is essentially you're increasing the volume of a certain pitch, which is generally fine. However, in this circumstance, my concern is when the player misses the sound is played anyway, which ultimately doesn't provide correct feedback to the player. So the general solution to this would be to remove the sounds from the storyboard and increase the hitsound volume of the note in play since that is possible if that was the intention in the first place of having that particular pitch be significantly louder.

Higher-pitched sounds
Example: 02:23:162 (143162|0)

Higher pitches naturally come out a little quieter than other pitches, so these have a much higher tendency to blend into the audio. A simple solution is to just increase the volume for these hitsounds.

Pitch clashes
Example: 01:23:912 (83912|1) with the storyboarded hitsound

So essentially because of being so close together, these two notes are close to being dissonant, which isn't that nice on the ears. In addition to that, one of them shouldn't be there in the first place (I assume someone thought the chord change was in a different place to where it actually is. So going from the pattern I think I see, the storyboarded hitsounds are in fact correct and should replace the ones that are in play.

Inconsistent storyboarded hitsounds
Example: 01:01:662 compared to, say, 00:59:662.

A smaller issue, but I thought I'd bring this up generally because I don't know whether you want the bass to repeat every 4/1 or 2/1. Personally, I'd go with 2/1, but it's ultimately up to you, as long as some consistent pattern throughout this section is established. (It's probably also ok to remove these ones altogether if you so choose to do so)

Hitsound volume in general
Example: basically the kiais, especially after 02:09:162.

So, because everything here is at a flat combined volume of 62%, you're ignoring the musical intensity of the song. Fine when the audio is relatively quiet, but when the song gets naturally louder because it builds up etc., you'll find the hitsounds blend in a lot more. The idea of hitsounds, keep in mind, is to provide audible feedback, so if they're not doing that, then there's not really much point to it. My suggestion for this one would be to have another listen through to check whether they do blend a little too much, and increase the hitsound volume for those notes. This is by far the trickiest one to solve (something about subjectivity), but I believe that this will be an issue during louder sections of the song.

It might actually help given the volume balance to reduce the volume of the audio itself since I feel the keysounds are still going to be drowned out at the increased volume (I'm still struggling to hear the keysounds even with the audio at 50% and effects at 100%.)

Hitsound inaccuracies
Just a few things here that aren't actually accurate to the audio for some reason. Pointing them all out because I'm not sure whether it was intentional (more likely not though).

  1. 01:53:412 (113412|2,113912|3) - G#4 -> F#4
  2. 01:55:412 (115412|1,115912|1) - G#3 -> G#4/D#4
  3. 01:56:412 (116412|4,116912|4) - A#3 -> A#4/F4
  4. 01:57:412 (117412|5,117912|5) - G#4 -> F#4
  5. 01:59:412 (119412|0,119912|0) - G#3 -> G#4/D#4
  6. 02:00:412 (120412|5,120912|5) - A#3 -> A#4/F4... you get the idea.
  7. 02:21:662 - probably need an A#7 somewhere in this chord.
  8. 02:33:162 (153162|3) - A#6 -> F#5
  9. 02:33:662 (153662|2,153912|2) - Are these meant to be on the same octave? Like C7 and C#7?
  10. 02:34:162 (154162|0,154162|1) - G#5+F4 -> F4+F5
  11. 02:34:412 (154412|2) - I see what you're trying for here, but the sound in the audio is more or less inaudible, so I'd go for A#5 here again.
  12. 02:35:162 (155162|6) - G#5 -> G#6(?)
  13. 02:35:412 (155412|3) - D#7 -> C#7
  14. 02:35:662 (155662|0) - C#7 -> D#7
  15. 02:36:162 (156162|1) - G#6 -> A#6
...you know, that final LN section is completely confusing me now, so I have no idea what you were trying to do. Do make sure that dissonances don't appear.

Hitsound prioritisation on the lower diffs don't seem to have gone so well. Ideally the hitsounds should be inline with what you're following (in this case the bass line). Might sound a little weird otherwise if the player misses on the highlighted notes.
Okay, hopefully, my brain's still intact to look at the charts...

1|2|3|4|5|6|7

Easy
Just a couple of small things. (Might want to buff OD to 7 since there's not really much point with 6 'cus no LNs essentially)

  1. 01:18:662 (78662|2,78662|5,80162|2,80162|5) - Doesn't make much sense for these to be in the same columns imo. Could change that but perhaps not overly critical.
  2. 02:45:162 (165162|6,165162|2,165674|6,165674|2,166187|5,166187|1,166700|4,166700|2,167213|1,167213|5) - Not quite sure why you've opted to go back to 1/1 doubles rather than continuing the 1/2 stream here. Mind providing some explanation?

Usagi desu
  1. 00:57:662 - Okay, so remember what I was saying about shortening those LNs by 1/2? Well, basically that bass note repeats during the LN as it stands (hence the note in the storyboard). Whether you want to keep it as it is for aesthetics at this stage is up to you.
  2. 01:14:662 (74662|5) - Feels a little strange imo to cut these short by 1/4 if there's no shield. Again up to you, but you could extend these by 1/4. (I would likely definitely do this for 01:16:162 (76162|2,76662|6) for some sort of non-shielded fill-in sort of thing.)
  3. 02:09:162 - I actually have a mild concern about true difficulty progression between this and the Normal diff (because SR never works). Compared to the Normal diff, this is significantly harder in terms of both reading and playing (more than what's generally accepted I feel). Particularly in the second half of this section, I feel the large step up is a little unfair. I would strongly urge you to buff the Normal here, especially since the Normal at this point is just the Easy but everything's a 1/1 LN.
  4. 02:25:599 (145599|2) - I'd make this 1/16 shorter and start 02:25:912 (145912|1) earlier to split them evenly across the extra 1/8 you have here, because having them lightly swung kinda goes against the generally smooth section here I feel.

So yeah, general pop for an unused hitsound, but I feel like the hitsounds, in general, are in a little bit of a disarray. Not to say that it's been done poorly, just that there are plenty of minor things about that I think the map would benefit greatly from being fixed.

So there ya go. My thoughts on things. Let me know what happens whenever my brain's finished reconstructing itself.
Topic Starter
SurfChu85

Asherz007 wrote:

"G#5S.wav" is unused, delete pls done

Do ensure that there's as little delay on the hitsounds as possible, as I do believe some of them are cutting it close.

So, uh, you have a .osb for storyboarded hitsounds and there's still storyboarded samples in the top diff... idk man, you're confusing me lol. If they're just going to be in all of the diffs, you can move them to the .osb. will tell ron

Okay, aside from that, I still have a fair few hitsound concerns. I'll try to catch as much as I can, but I'm human so bear with me if I don't find everything. I'll use the top diff as my reference point, else I'd be here forever.

To the hitsounder
Anything you don't understand/need more examples, feel free to ask.

Storyboarded hitsounds that increase the volume
Example: 00:17:162

Okay, so the issue I have here is essentially you're increasing the volume of a certain pitch, which is generally fine. However, in this circumstance, my concern is when the player misses the sound is played anyway, which ultimately doesn't provide correct feedback to the player. So the general solution to this would be to remove the sounds from the storyboard and increase the hitsound volume of the note in play since that is possible if that was the intention in the first place of having that particular pitch be significantly louder.

Higher-pitched sounds
Example: 02:23:162 (143162|0)

Higher pitches naturally come out a little quieter than other pitches, so these have a much higher tendency to blend into the audio. A simple solution is to just increase the volume for these hitsounds.

Pitch clashes
Example: 01:23:912 (83912|1) with the storyboarded hitsound

So essentially because of being so close together, these two notes are close to being dissonant, which isn't that nice on the ears. In addition to that, one of them shouldn't be there in the first place (I assume someone thought the chord change was in a different place to where it actually is. So going from the pattern I think I see, the storyboarded hitsounds are in fact correct and should replace the ones that are in play.

Inconsistent storyboarded hitsounds
Example: 01:01:662 compared to, say, 00:59:662.

A smaller issue, but I thought I'd bring this up generally because I don't know whether you want the bass to repeat every 4/1 or 2/1. Personally, I'd go with 2/1, but it's ultimately up to you, as long as some consistent pattern throughout this section is established. (It's probably also ok to remove these ones altogether if you so choose to do so)

Hitsound volume in general
Example: basically the kiais, especially after 02:09:162.

So, because everything here is at a flat combined volume of 62%, you're ignoring the musical intensity of the song. Fine when the audio is relatively quiet, but when the song gets naturally louder because it builds up etc., you'll find the hitsounds blend in a lot more. The idea of hitsounds, keep in mind, is to provide audible feedback, so if they're not doing that, then there's not really much point to it. My suggestion for this one would be to have another listen through to check whether they do blend a little too much, and increase the hitsound volume for those notes. This is by far the trickiest one to solve (something about subjectivity), but I believe that this will be an issue during louder sections of the song.

It might actually help given the volume balance to reduce the volume of the audio itself since I feel the keysounds are still going to be drowned out at the increased volume (I'm still struggling to hear the keysounds even with the audio at 50% and effects at 100%.)

Hitsound inaccuracies
Just a few things here that aren't actually accurate to the audio for some reason. Pointing them all out because I'm not sure whether it was intentional (more likely not though).

  1. 01:53:412 (113412|2,113912|3) - G#4 -> F#4
  2. 01:55:412 (115412|1,115912|1) - G#3 -> G#4/D#4
  3. 01:56:412 (116412|4,116912|4) - A#3 -> A#4/F4
  4. 01:57:412 (117412|5,117912|5) - G#4 -> F#4
  5. 01:59:412 (119412|0,119912|0) - G#3 -> G#4/D#4
  6. 02:00:412 (120412|5,120912|5) - A#3 -> A#4/F4... you get the idea.
  7. 02:21:662 - probably need an A#7 somewhere in this chord.
  8. 02:33:162 (153162|3) - A#6 -> F#5
  9. 02:33:662 (153662|2,153912|2) - Are these meant to be on the same octave? Like C7 and C#7?
  10. 02:34:162 (154162|0,154162|1) - G#5+F4 -> F4+F5
  11. 02:34:412 (154412|2) - I see what you're trying for here, but the sound in the audio is more or less inaudible, so I'd go for A#5 here again.
  12. 02:35:162 (155162|6) - G#5 -> G#6(?)
  13. 02:35:412 (155412|3) - D#7 -> C#7
  14. 02:35:662 (155662|0) - C#7 -> D#7
  15. 02:36:162 (156162|1) - G#6 -> A#6
...you know, that final LN section is completely confusing me now, so I have no idea what you were trying to do. Do make sure that dissonances don't appear.

Hitsound prioritisation on the lower diffs don't seem to have gone so well. Ideally the hitsounds should be inline with what you're following (in this case the bass line). Might sound a little weird otherwise if the player misses on the highlighted notes.
Okay, hopefully, my brain's still intact to look at the charts...

1|2|3|4|5|6|7

Easy
Just a couple of small things. (Might want to buff OD to 7 since there's not really much point with 6 'cus no LNs essentially)

  1. 01:18:662 (78662|2,78662|5,80162|2,80162|5) - Doesn't make much sense for these to be in the same columns imo. Could change that but perhaps not overly critical. moved the two LN's at cols 1 and 4,
  2. 02:45:162 (165162|6,165162|2,165674|6,165674|2,166187|5,166187|1,166700|4,166700|2,167213|1,167213|5) - Not quite sure why you've opted to go back to 1/1 doubles rather than continuing the 1/2 stream here. Mind providing some explanation? i put my focus on those backing tones,
    which i felt was stronger for some reason, changed it to the 1/2 stream

Usagi desu
  1. 00:57:662 - Okay, so remember what I was saying about shortening those LNs by 1/2? Well, basically that bass note repeats during the LN as it stands (hence the note in the storyboard). Whether you want to keep it as it is for aesthetics at this stage is up to you. i see what you mean now
  2. 01:14:662 (74662|5) - Feels a little strange imo to cut these short by 1/4 if there's no shield. Again up to you, but you could extend these by 1/4. (I would likely definitely do this for 01:16:162 (76162|2,76662|6) for some sort of non-shielded fill-in sort of thing.) done
  3. 02:09:162 - I actually have a mild concern about true difficulty progression between this and the Normal diff (because SR never works). Compared to the Normal diff, this is significantly harder in terms of both reading and playing (more than what's generally accepted I feel). Particularly in the second half of this section, I feel the large step up is a little unfair. I would strongly urge you to buff the Normal here, especially since the Normal at this point is just the Easy but everything's a 1/1 LN. working on this now
  4. 02:25:599 (145599|2) - I'd make this 1/16 shorter and start 02:25:912 (145912|1) earlier to split them evenly across the extra 1/8 you have here, because having them lightly swung kinda goes against the generally smooth section here I feel. done

So yeah, general pop for an unused hitsound, but I feel like the hitsounds, in general, are in a little bit of a disarray. Not to say that it's been done poorly, just that there are plenty of minor things about that I think the map would benefit greatly from being fixed.

So there ya go. My thoughts on things. Let me know what happens whenever my brain's finished reconstructing itself.
I'll wait for be waiting on ron's input on this, thanks. I might not be able to update this for another few days since tourney stuff, but will try to keep this updated.
Koibenii

Asherz007 wrote:

"G#5S.wav" is unused, delete pls

Do ensure that there's as little delay on the hitsounds as possible, as I do believe some of them are cutting it close.

So, uh, you have a .osb for storyboarded hitsounds and there's still storyboarded samples in the top diff... idk man, you're confusing me lol. If they're just going to be in all of the diffs, you can move them to the .osb.

Okay, aside from that, I still have a fair few hitsound concerns. I'll try to catch as much as I can, but I'm human so bear with me if I don't find everything. I'll use the top diff as my reference point, else I'd be here forever.

To the hitsounder
Anything you don't understand/need more examples, feel free to ask.

Storyboarded hitsounds that increase the volume
Example: 00:17:162

Okay, so the issue I have here is essentially you're increasing the volume of a certain pitch, which is generally fine. However, in this circumstance, my concern is when the player misses the sound is played anyway, which ultimately doesn't provide correct feedback to the player. So the general solution to this would be to remove the sounds from the storyboard and increase the hitsound volume of the note in play since that is possible if that was the intention in the first place of having that particular pitch be significantly louder.

what? I thought i removed them since the last update. anyways fixed. also switched the positions of the lower pitch and the higher pitch, so that the result is that the higher pitches are in the sb and the lower pitches are in play.

Higher-pitched sounds
Example: 02:23:162 (143162|0)

Higher pitches naturally come out a little quieter than other pitches, so these have a much higher tendency to blend into the audio. A simple solution is to just increase the volume for these hitsounds.

okay will try to fix.

Pitch clashes
Example: 01:23:912 (83912|1) with the storyboarded hitsound

So essentially because of being so close together, these two notes are close to being dissonant, which isn't that nice on the ears. In addition to that, one of them shouldn't be there in the first place (I assume someone thought the chord change was in a different place to where it actually is. So going from the pattern I think I see, the storyboarded hitsounds are in fact correct and should replace the ones that are in play.

okay fixed.

Inconsistent storyboarded hitsounds
Example: 01:01:662 compared to, say, 00:59:662.

A smaller issue, but I thought I'd bring this up generally because I don't know whether you want the bass to repeat every 4/1 or 2/1. Personally, I'd go with 2/1, but it's ultimately up to you, as long as some consistent pattern throughout this section is established. (It's probably also ok to remove these ones altogether if you so choose to do so)

okay, for the section of 00:57:162 to 01:13:162 i would like to establish that the pattern of the bass repeats every 1/1, 3/1 and 4/1, (e.g. 01:01:662 (61662|2) and 01:01:912 (61912|4) has the C#3 and transitions into F3 at 01:02:162 , in which prot have suggested me to amplify the previous chord progression, which the bass repeats every 1/1 and 4/1 (e.g. 00:41:912 (41912|4) - has C#3 which transitions into F#3 at 00:42:162 so I dont think there has to be any changes in this section. I would also like to ask for a deeper explanation if I understood it incorrectly.

Hitsound volume in general
Example: basically the kiais, especially after 02:09:162.

So, because everything here is at a flat combined volume of 62%, you're ignoring the musical intensity of the song. Fine when the audio is relatively quiet, but when the song gets naturally louder because it builds up etc., you'll find the hitsounds blend in a lot more. The idea of hitsounds, keep in mind, is to provide audible feedback, so if they're not doing that, then there's not really much point to it. My suggestion for this one would be to have another listen through to check whether they do blend a little too much, and increase the hitsound volume for those notes. This is by far the trickiest one to solve (something about subjectivity), but I believe that this will be an issue during louder sections of the song.

It might actually help given the volume balance to reduce the volume of the audio itself since I feel the keysounds are still going to be drowned out at the increased volume (I'm still struggling to hear the keysounds even with the audio at 50% and effects at 100%.)

would like to try reducing the volume of the audio itself.

Hitsound inaccuracies
Just a few things here that aren't actually accurate to the audio for some reason. Pointing them all out because I'm not sure whether it was intentional (more likely not though).

  1. 01:53:412 (113412|2,113912|3) - G#4 -> F#4 fixed
  2. 01:55:412 (115412|1,115912|1) - G#3 -> G#4/D#4 fixed
  3. 01:56:412 (116412|4,116912|4) - A#3 -> A#4/F4 fixed
  4. 01:57:412 (117412|5,117912|5) - G#4 -> F#4 fixed
  5. 01:59:412 (119412|0,119912|0) - G#3 -> G#4/D#4 fixed
  6. 02:00:412 (120412|5,120912|5) - A#3 -> A#4/F4... you get the idea.
  7. 02:21:662 - probably need an A#7 somewhere in this chord. fixed
  8. 02:33:162 (153162|3) - A#6 -> F#5 fixed
  9. 02:33:662 (153662|2,153912|2) - Are these meant to be on the same octave? Like C7 and C#7? yup
  10. 02:34:162 (154162|0,154162|1) - G#5+F4 -> F4+F5 fixed
  11. 02:34:412 (154412|2) - I see what you're trying for here, but the sound in the audio is more or less inaudible, so I'd go for A#5 here again. fixed
  12. 02:35:162 (155162|6) - G#5 -> G#6(?) fixed
  13. 02:35:412 (155412|3) - D#7 -> C#7 fixed
  14. 02:35:662 (155662|0) - C#7 -> D#7 fixed
  15. 02:36:162 (156162|1) - G#6 -> A#6
fixed
...you know, that final LN section is completely confusing me now, so I have no idea what you were trying to do. Do make sure that dissonances don't appear.

Hitsound prioritisation on the lower diffs don't seem to have gone so well. Ideally the hitsounds should be inline with what you're following (in this case the bass line). Might sound a little weird otherwise if the player misses on the highlighted notes.
Okay, hopefully, my brain's still intact to look at the charts...

1|2|3|4|5|6|7

Easy
Just a couple of small things. (Might want to buff OD to 7 since there's not really much point with 6 'cus no LNs essentially)

  1. 01:18:662 (78662|2,78662|5,80162|2,80162|5) - Doesn't make much sense for these to be in the same columns imo. Could change that but perhaps not overly critical.
  2. 02:45:162 (165162|6,165162|2,165674|6,165674|2,166187|5,166187|1,166700|4,166700|2,167213|1,167213|5) - Not quite sure why you've opted to go back to 1/1 doubles rather than continuing the 1/2 stream here. Mind providing some explanation?

Usagi desu
  1. 00:57:662 - Okay, so remember what I was saying about shortening those LNs by 1/2? Well, basically that bass note repeats during the LN as it stands (hence the note in the storyboard). Whether you want to keep it as it is for aesthetics at this stage is up to you.
  2. 01:14:662 (74662|5) - Feels a little strange imo to cut these short by 1/4 if there's no shield. Again up to you, but you could extend these by 1/4. (I would likely definitely do this for 01:16:162 (76162|2,76662|6) for some sort of non-shielded fill-in sort of thing.)
  3. 02:09:162 - I actually have a mild concern about true difficulty progression between this and the Normal diff (because SR never works). Compared to the Normal diff, this is significantly harder in terms of both reading and playing (more than what's generally accepted I feel). Particularly in the second half of this section, I feel the large step up is a little unfair. I would strongly urge you to buff the Normal here, especially since the Normal at this point is just the Easy but everything's a 1/1 LN.
  4. 02:25:599 (145599|2) - I'd make this 1/16 shorter and start 02:25:912 (145912|1) earlier to split them evenly across the extra 1/8 you have here, because having them lightly swung kinda goes against the generally smooth section here I feel.

So yeah, general pop for an unused hitsound, but I feel like the hitsounds, in general, are in a little bit of a disarray. Not to say that it's been done poorly, just that there are plenty of minor things about that I think the map would benefit greatly from being fixed.

So there ya go. My thoughts on things. Let me know what happens whenever my brain's finished reconstructing itself.
hmm okay my brain's drained out as well from the stuff i thought i had previously removed/adjusted. I haven't got to the part of increasing the hitsound volume of the higher-pitched notes because of camouflaging with the bg music. i'll try to talk with surf if decreasing the volume of the audio itself is okay with him. I also didn't touch the .osb because it might wreck the storyboard samples across all diffs. will be waiting for an advice on how to transfer/move sb sounds to the diffs itself and deleting the .osb or whatsoever wouldn't damage the adjusted diffs.

Update: http://puu.sh/zfMP6/cbfe2756a0.rar
Protastic101
[Sky Rabbit (for Ron)]
01:01:726 - Should have a C#3 in the storyboard
01:03:726 - 01:05:726 - 01:07:726 - 01:09:726 - 01:11:726 - Actually, I'm not sure now if this is done intentionally, but they're all missing the storyboard sample to have that AAB type pitch like you see in the beginning of this section at 00:57:226 -

01:56:226 - 02:00:226 - 02:04:226 - 02:08:226 - Missing A#3 at 62%. It completes the chord progression of F#3 -> C#3 -> G#3

02:25:226 (145226|4,145226|1,145226|5) - The sound begins at 02:25:163 - so I'd shorten all the LNs before it to end there. Applies for all diffs where applicable.

02:49:034 (169034|2) - I thought I already reviewed this before but seems not :psy: Anyways, this should be D#7


[Normal]
00:25:976 - to 00:33:226 - Rip col 7 and 6. I know you're trying to be accurate to pitch, but I think it's fine to displace one of those triplets a few columns to the right to avoid having those columns empty for so long (col 7 goes empty even longer)


[Easy]
00:24:226 - to 00:36:726 - I like where the symmetry is going but you can't just leave a column empty for this long cause the mapper essentially becomes 6k for 12 seconds which I don't think is the experience the player is really wanting if they're choosing to play a 7K map.
00:45:476 - to 00:57:476 - ^

01:21:226 - For this kiai, I think it might be nice to separate out the notes that are on the second downbeat like at 01:22:226 (82226|1,84226|2,86226|1,88226|0,90226|1) - from the rest of the notes by putting a few columns of space in between them all so it seems like the player is using another hand to play the note similar to how they'd play this with the left hand on an actual piano. Something like this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10504709

02:25:226 (145226|4,145226|0) - Snap as mentioned in the top diff

02:45:226 - Bruh, the snaps lmfao
Topic Starter
SurfChu85

Protastic101 wrote:

No Reply = APPLIED

[Sky Rabbit (for Ron)]
01:01:726 - Should have a C#3 in the storyboard
01:03:726 - 01:05:726 - 01:07:726 - 01:09:726 - 01:11:726 - Actually, I'm not sure now if this is done intentionally, but they're all missing the storyboard sample to have that AAB type pitch like you see in the beginning of this section at 00:57:226 -

01:56:226 - 02:00:226 - 02:04:226 - 02:08:226 - Missing A#3 at 62%. It completes the chord progression of F#3 -> C#3 -> G#3

02:25:226 (145226|4,145226|1,145226|5) - The sound begins at 02:25:163 - so I'd shorten all the LNs before it to end there. Applies for all diffs where applicable. fixed this part

02:49:034 (169034|2) - I thought I already reviewed this before but seems not :psy: Anyways, this should be D#7


[Normal]
00:25:976 - to 00:33:226 - Rip col 7 and 6. I know you're trying to be accurate to pitch, but I think it's fine to displace one of those triplets a few columns to the right to avoid having those columns empty for so long (col 7 goes empty even longer)

[Easy]
00:24:226 - to 00:36:726 - I like where the symmetry is going but you can't just leave a column empty for this long cause the mapper essentially becomes 6k for 12 seconds which I don't think is the experience the player is really wanting if they're choosing to play a 7K map.
00:45:476 - to 00:57:476 - ^

01:21:226 - For this kiai, I think it might be nice to separate out the notes that are on the second downbeat like at 01:22:226 (82226|1,84226|2,86226|1,88226|0,90226|1) - from the rest of the notes by putting a few columns of space in between them all so it seems like the player is using another hand to play the note similar to how they'd play this with the left hand on an actual piano. Something like this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10504709 discussed this over at discord, basically, what'll happen here is that this should be applied for the whole of the first kiai until the calm section,
then i'll stick to the concept applied prior to this mod on the second kiai (at 01:53:226 - ) as things are a bit more intense here in comparison to the previous section


02:25:226 (145226|4,145226|0) - Snap as mentioned in the top diff

02:45:226 - Bruh, the snaps lmfao dafuq, how did i miss this?
waiting for one of my charts to be graved to update this lol, should be up by tuesday or wednesday
Koibenii

Protastic101 wrote:

[Sky Rabbit (for Ron)]
01:01:726 - Should have a C#3 in the storyboard applied
01:03:726 - 01:05:726 - 01:07:726 - 01:09:726 - 01:11:726 - Actually, I'm not sure now if this is done intentionally, but they're all missing the storyboard sample to have that AAB type pitch like you see in the beginning of this section at 00:57:226 - wow i thought i had applied it before but anyways fixed.

01:56:226 - 02:00:226 - 02:04:226 - 02:08:226 - Missing A#3 at 62%. It completes the chord progression of F#3 -> C#3 -> G#3 applied

02:25:226 (145226|4,145226|1,145226|5) - The sound begins at 02:25:163 - so I'd shorten all the LNs before it to end there. Applies for all diffs where applicable.

02:49:034 (169034|2) - I thought I already reviewed this before but seems not :psy: Anyways, this should be D#7 applied
yaaaaaaaaassssssss finally.

update: http://puu.sh/zOnMx/a95b17ceb3.osz
Protastic101
We fixed some SB hs snaps because they were re^10, otherwise everything's good to go. Good luck with qualify
Topic Starter
SurfChu85
oh my

EDIT: hi page 4
Garalulu
Congratz
Everything seems guuud
Topic Starter
SurfChu85
OH MY AAAAAAAAAA THANKS!!!
Nitrous
Grats!
Maxus
Hello, Congrats for Qualify, but i believe there's couple issue regarding timing that i think need to be adressed first here. This mainly for highest diff, but try to also adjust things for lower diff as well.

02:44:226 - This need additional red line here cause the note is noticeably too late around this part, try use 128 bpm here, and go back to 120 bpm for 02:44:976 -

02:45:224 - The BPM here isn't 117 BPM, it's actually 123 BPM, otherwise the notes are too late around this part.

02:46:249 - Should have new red line at 120 BPM, here you can hear that the note are also quite too late here.

02:47:211 (167211|1,167452|2,167694|3,167936|4) - 4 notes here are very off with the piano, you can hear that the notes are actually far earlier than the piano. I believe the red line are supposed to be at 02:47:261 - (+50ms) , the notes are much more aligned with the piano.

02:48:464 (168464|6,168500|5) - The snap here are actually very off with the piano too, to the point there isn't any instrument playing when the grace sound comes out. I believe these 2 snaps are supposed to be at 02:48:500 - and 02:48:536 - instead.

02:48:749 (168749|4) - Should be at 1/16 at 02:48:785 - , this one also quite off.

02:48:999 (168999|3,169034|2) - should be 1/12 at 02:49:011 - and 02:49:058 -

I'm quite sure these are the main one that's really off, but if you felt it's correct, please provide the explanation about it.
Anyway it's really great LN map, really enjoying this one, good luck!
Topic Starter
SurfChu85

Maxus wrote:

Hello, Congrats for Qualify, but i believe there's couple issue regarding timing that i think need to be adressed first here. This mainly for highest diff, but try to also adjust things for lower diff as well.

02:44:226 - This need additional red line here cause the note is noticeably too late around this part, try use 128 bpm here, and go back to 120 bpm for 02:44:976 -

02:45:224 - The BPM here isn't 117 BPM, it's actually 123 BPM, otherwise the notes are too late around this part.

02:46:249 - Should have new red line at 120 BPM, here you can hear that the note are also quite too late here.

02:47:211 (167211|1,167452|2,167694|3,167936|4) - 4 notes here are very off with the piano, you can hear that the notes are actually far earlier than the piano. I believe the red line are supposed to be at 02:47:261 - (+50ms) , the notes are much more aligned with the piano.

02:48:464 (168464|6,168500|5) - The snap here are actually very off with the piano too, to the point there isn't any instrument playing when the grace sound comes out. I believe these 2 snaps are supposed to be at 02:48:500 - and 02:48:536 - instead.

02:48:749 (168749|4) - Should be at 1/16 at 02:48:785 - , this one also quite off.

02:48:999 (168999|3,169034|2) - should be 1/12 at 02:49:011 - and 02:49:058 -

I'm quite sure these are the main one that's really off, but if you felt it's correct, please provide the explanation about it.
Anyway it's really great LN map, really enjoying this one, good luck!
seems like everything in here's reasonable enough, i'll immediately call someone for a temporary dq to get this fixed, thanks!
Asherz007
woosh
Topic Starter
SurfChu85
should be fixed on the most recent update, now for the wait
Garalulu
new
Maxus
There isn't any qualify icon :o?
Kawawa
I was playing but really does not sync with the song much.
you have snapped LNs without multi BPM but It would not matter If you snapped them more exactly.
Therefore I think It needs to be exact for them. some notes were obviously out on the section of sounds even If considered the ringing sound.
so maybe It's done over 30-40 ms nearly.

It's an example. 02:24:726 - this sound is close to 02:24:684 - 1/12.
also 01:52:476 - 01:52:726 - 01:52:976 - 01:53:226 - 01:53:476 - 01:53:726 - 01:53:976 - Those sounds are same. should be snapped at under 30-40 ms.
like 01:52:444 - 01:52:694 - 01:52:944 - 01:53:194 - 01:53:444 - 01:53:694 - 01:53:944 - (1/8).

If you want to keep them as 1/4 regular rhythm for the main white timing line,
you could get better results by adding some red lines in advance when It feels delayed. because It's regularly 30-40ms off on some part.
If you accept this problem, I think I can post them in detail. anyway it would be nice to consider it again. all up to you
Protastic101
tfw forgot heart icon before going to bed, and probs post a broken heart icon in like an hour :blobsweats:
Protastic101
Ok yeah let's fix this.
win50117
I like this song, and this beatmap is very interesting!
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