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[assigned] [confirmed] score multiplier not working?

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29
Imperf3kt
75 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
Imperf3kt
Problem Details:
The top scores on AKINO from bless4 & CHiCO with HoneyWorks - MIIRO vs. Ai no Scenario - ultra beginner seem a little odd.
The top player spun 18000 on the lone spinner in the map, using just DTHR.
I used DTHRHDFL and scored 16000 on the spinner (2000 less)
Both of us got SS, yet I am not even in the top 1000


Now, I assumed maybe I was calculating it wrong, or I was just mistaken, so I retried several times to beat 18000 spinner bonus. Alas, I never did, but then I noticed this:

Now, this strikes me as odd. No Fail + Easy + Hidden mods cause a 0.27x score modifier. How is this guy ranked fourth? My own score multiplier was 1.41x, so even if he spun 20000 on the spinner, there's no way he should even be in the top 100 with roughly a quarter score.

In case it is of any use: my replay
osu! version: 20160821.1 (latest)

Edit:
I decided to play the song without mods.

I achieved the same spin on my 4th and 5th scores yet there's no difference (even though one is with a 1.41x score multiplier and one isn't)
Last edited by Imperf3kt , edited 1 time in total.
o x
1,528 posts
Joined May 2015
o x
This isn't odd behaviour. On very easy maps like this with few objects spinners are what decide top 50 players and a lot of the score. None of the mods effect the amount of score that the spinner gives you. Thus giving people who use less mods higher scores. It's odd but not unusual.
Imperf3kt
75 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
Imperf3kt
I just retried the map without mods and achieved the same score as one where I did use mods.
So I edited the title (and yes, I achieved the same spinner bonus)

Observe:
Replay with mods: http://puu.sh/rSuVe/8e5c459c7b.osr
Replay with no mods: http://puu.sh/rSuWx/b392059b2d.osr

On both plays, I achieve the exact same score, and the exact same spinner bonus. Why is there no difference?

Also, you may notice that the difference in the spinner bonus is 2000, yet the top players have roughly 6000 more score, even though they only got an extra 2000 from spin bonus. I do know how the spinner works.
Another odd thing I noticed while trying to write up this report, is that sometimes my scores weren't being saved to local. I had to redo them quite a few times because they just weren't showing.

But ultimately the "odd" behaviour I am referring to is the #4 rank. How can someone who uses EZNF, get in the top 5?
Starrodkirby86
osu! Alumni
3,739 posts
Here since the beginning
Starrodkirby86
At its base, the base scores, like getting a 300, a 1000 from a spinner, and things like that, will always reward their base value. The multiplier is merely a bonus appended over that base value as well. See this for more details on the formula.

There shouldn't be anything shady going on, but admittedly I haven't looked at the specific replays or anything. I'm not really sure about the spinner bonuses being exactly captured or anything like that. But if there is any misunderstanding regarding how the scoring is calculated, at least the formula is out in the open to read on.
Imperf3kt
75 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
Imperf3kt
Alright, that all makes sense, but what about the two replays where I achieve identical scores yet one uses mods and one doesn't? Shouldn't there be a difference considering everything was identical except the score multiplier.
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Spinnerbonuses don't get weighted alongside score bonus
Spinning with EZ will cause more points, since the OD is lower, thus the difficulty to clear spinners is lower
Using HT will likely make it worse, since the spinner only gets longer, allowing for more points
Imperf3kt
75 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
Imperf3kt

Bara- wrote:

Spinnerbonuses don't get weighted alongside score bonus
Spinning with EZ will cause more points, since the OD is lower, thus the difficulty to clear spinners is lower
Using HT will likely make it worse, since the spinner only gets longer, allowing for more points
Tested this, EZ does indeed end up giving higher spin, so with so few objects it does indeed amount to a higher overall score, but Halftime does not affect anything, since the amount of spins you collect is also modified.

But, what I am trying to figure out, is why two identical plays, one with mods, one without, gave me the same score.

Edit:
I just watched the two replays and observed the following:
BEFORE the spinner, the play WITHOUT mods (1.0x score modifier), achieved 4010 score
AFTER the spinner (14000 bonus), the play WITHOUT mods, achieved 21710
At the END of the song, the play WITHOUT mods, achieved 23310 score

BEFORE the spinner, the play WITH mods (1.41x score modifier), achieved 4010 score
AFTER the spinner (14000 bonus), the play WITH mods, achieved 21710 score
At the END of the song, the play WITH mods, achieved 23310 score

Does the multiplier only take affect at the end of a song, or throughout?
Imperf3kt
75 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
Imperf3kt
Apparently, auto doesn't even beat the #1 score, using the exact same mods and spinning 20,000 on the spinner.
Still think Its just because I'm not spinning fast enough?






Or how about auto spinning 20,000 on the spinner, with all mods?




Most of the top 50 plays are above this score. How is this possible when none of them can spin as fast as auto?
Last edited by Imperf3kt , edited 1 time in total.
o x
1,528 posts
Joined May 2015
o x
Auto does not give the highest possible score. This is nothing to do with a glitch or a bug as we have said multiple times. This is just how scoring works.
Imperf3kt
75 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
Imperf3kt
SS = same score for every player, correct?

So the only way to differ that score, is by spinning more on a spinner.

Osu Auto, spins more than everyone, so naturally, I assume it should be the top score. Seeing as how the current top score had 2000 less bonus.
How could it not be? I've been playing osu for four years and I've never seen anybody get more than auto, only break the lawyers. (I'm NOT suggesting any of these guys did that btw)

So explain to me this, please, as I find it difficult to comprehend.
How come when I had 2000 spinner bonus less that #1 play, there is a difference of 6100 points, yet when osu!auto earns 2000 MORE points than the #1 play, it is still over 1000 points short?
Kao
1,869 posts
Joined September 2015
Kao
Auto does not always get higher than every user, this case is most apparently obvious in the tewi spinner map https://osu.ppy.sh/b/260177&m=2
Auto had a delay in the spin which caused a lot of 100 rather than 300 where I could by continuing spinning, instead of stopping every time.

I'm not sure about this but every bit of spin counts in a spinner, as you won't see hundred points adding up, only thousands. It might be that you got a lower point in the first spinner then you didn't have enough points to catch up in the last spinner Vice versa. Even if you see "3000" as the last in the spinner the #1 might've gotten 500 or even 900 points higher
This is just my 2 cents
VeilStar
osu! Alumni
4,773 posts
Joined April 2014
VeilStar
Not sure what the exact hell is going on here, what I can say though is that Auto seems to achieve the same score as the score it previously achieved regardless of mods.



Edit: Pinning this.
Kao
1,869 posts
Joined September 2015
Kao
Could it just be that lag is what's causing auto to fall behind the spinner, thus losing a bit of score?
VeilStar
osu! Alumni
4,773 posts
Joined April 2014
VeilStar

Kao wrote:

Could it just be that lag is what's causing auto to fall behind the spinner, thus losing a bit of score?
Definitely not the case here. Go try it out for yourself.
Dusk69
15 posts
Joined September 2016
Dusk69
I personally believe it's the delay when osu! begins spinning. Humans are ready to spin, yet auto will always propose a delay.

I might be wrong. I am a true newbie, so who knows? :/
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-

Dusk69 wrote:

I personally believe it's the delay when osu! begins spinning. Humans are ready to spin, yet auto will always propose a delay.

I might be wrong. I am a true newbie, so who knows? :/
The thing is, is that regular auto can't spin consistently. If I have HR+Auto, and then normal Auto, the second Auto would get the HR score instead

Isn't it a good idea to reword the title/OP a bit to make this more clear?
Imperf3kt
75 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
Imperf3kt

Dusk69 wrote:

I personally believe it's the delay when osu! begins spinning. Humans are ready to spin, yet auto will always propose a delay.

I might be wrong. I am a true newbie, so who knows? :/
That may be true for Tewi Spinners, but this map has only one spinner.

Besides, that isn't the issue.
The issue is that you or auto, always achieve the same score regardless of mods.
In my case, osu auto achieves 30610 score with any combination of HRDTHRFL and 20,000 spinner bonus, but with EZHTNF or any combination of, it achieves the same spin bonus - 20000, yet scores 31710. And its not consistent. Sometimes it'll score 100 points more, sometimes 100 points less. The biggest inconsistency I saw was 1200 points by auto - using the same mods it used just 2 minutes previous.
The other mystery is there are scores which achieve less spinnerbonus than you or auto, but have far more score using the same mods. If score really worked "like that", how come Auto or I don't get the same scores by using the same mods and achieving the same spinner bonus?

Bara- wrote:

Isn't it a good idea to reword the title/OP a bit to make this more clear?
Do you have something in mind?
Kao
1,869 posts
Joined September 2015
Kao

Imperf3kt wrote:

Dusk69 wrote:

I personally believe it's the delay when osu! begins spinning. Humans are ready to spin, yet auto will always propose a delay.

I might be wrong. I am a true newbie, so who knows? :/
That may be true for Tewi Spinners, but this map has only one spinner.

Besides, that isn't the issue.
The issue is that you or auto, always achieve the same score regardless of mods.
In my case, osu auto achieves 30610 score with any combination of HRDTHRFL and 20,000 spinner bonus, but with EZHTNF or any combination of, it achieves the same spin bonus - 20000, yet scores 31710. And its not consistent. Sometimes it'll score 100 points more, sometimes 100 points less. The biggest inconsistency I saw was 1200 points by auto - using the same mods it used just 2 minutes previous.
The other mystery is there are scores which achieve less spinnerbonus than you or auto, but have far more score using the same mods. If score really worked "like that", how come Auto or I don't get the same scores by using the same mods and achieving the same spinner bonus?

Bara- wrote:

Isn't it a good idea to reword the title/OP a bit to make this more clear?
Do you have something in mind?
Well I have thought that using HR made my spinning a bit slower, getting 2000 in spinner vs 8000 with nomod, I have thought that because of HR, the spin is heavier but awards higher points thus even with 2000 it still awards a final score of 8000
This is just a theory, it could be the reason the scores are the same and/or different even if the spinner score was higher and/or lower.
Imperf3kt
75 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
Imperf3kt
HR does make the spinner 'heavier', resulting in less spinner bonus, however spinner bonus is not included in the score modifiers.
If you spin 2000, you get 2000 regardless of mods.
Well, not 2000, you get 300+300(multiplier affected?)+spinnerbonus. 300 for hitting the spinner, 300 for finishing the spinner multiplied by the mods and then your spinnerbonus added on top.
As far as I'm aware, scoring bonus only works in lots of 1000
Go play levan polkka (the spinner map), it'll give you a good idea as to how spinners and spinnerbonus works)

EZ is the opposite, the spinner is 'lightened' and gives you more bonus for the same spins - at least, this is what I've seen. I cannot really confirm it (about EZ).
loloplayer420_DELETED
loloplayer420_DELETED
Now my question is: How could Sven archieve to spin over 477 spm and get 100 points more than a normal player can get?
Imperf3kt
75 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
Imperf3kt
Sven didn't, if you watch the replay (missing, as #1 appears to have randomly changed) they spin around 450.
The question, is how come 20,000 spinner bonus isn't enough to beat 18,000 spinner bonus (even when full mod), when both plays are SS and there's only one spinner in the map.
rikia
202 posts
Joined December 2015
rikia
Idk if these issues are the same, but I had an issue with a score on this map.

The issue is there are no spinners, yet #1 got #1 with 40 point lead, so why did he get #1? You cant get 40+ points from thin air.
Kao
1,869 posts
Joined September 2015
Kao

Viperial wrote:

Idk if these issues are the same, but I had an issue with a score on this map.
SPOILER
The issue is there are no spinners, yet #1 got #1 with 40 point lead, so why did he get #1? You cant get 40+ points from thin air.
He could've use an old client/different release stream which caused his score to be calculated higher than normal.
Such as here that combo aren't the same in different streams

That's the only thing that can cause something like this.
I noticed his play was made in 12/12/2015
while the 2nd place was made in 5/13/2016
There's no doubt that since he used an old client that it could've cause a note (probably a tick of a slider) to have his score higher.
rikia
202 posts
Joined December 2015
rikia

Kao wrote:

Viperial wrote:

Idk if these issues are the same, but I had an issue with a score on this map.
SPOILER
The issue is there are no spinners, yet #1 got #1 with 40 point lead, so why did he get #1? You cant get 40+ points from thin air.
He could've use an old client/different release stream which caused his score to be calculated higher than normal.
Such as here that combo aren't the same in different streams

That's the only thing that can cause something like this.
I noticed his play was made in 12/12/2015
while the 2nd place was made in 5/13/2016
There's no doubt that since he used an old client that it could've cause a note (probably a tick of a slider) to have his score higher.
This might be true, I remember long ago seeing that he got an extra 40 points after the map was over, I don't see this right now so i might have to change release streams. Might be dreaming that time idk. If I changed release streams and Performed an HDDTHRFL SS and got 40 points then ill believe that.
Oh wait, you said old client. not old release stream. I guess that means that I wont be able to get #2nd place rip
Ronja
132 posts
Joined July 2016
Ronja
strange
Dntm8kmeeatu
Technical Support Team
9,946 posts
Joined December 2014
Dntm8kmeeatu
Bumped to prevent Archiving
seylek_old
1 post
Joined January 2017
seylek_old
12
Dntm8kmeeatu
Technical Support Team
9,946 posts
Joined December 2014
Dntm8kmeeatu

seylek wrote:

12
Welcome to the forums. Don't bump posts with nonsense please?
Scarlet Evans
345 posts
Joined August 2014
Scarlet Evans
Anything new in this matter?

P.S. I think that it just got automatically Archived again.
Last edited by Dntm8kmeeatu , edited 1 time in total.
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